deflating tyres on planes

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Clive George, Dec 17, 2004.

  1. Clive George

    Clive George Guest

    Well, we all know that the ostensible reason, that the pressure in the hold
    is lower so the tyre might pop is a crock of shit.

    What about deflating them so if it's badly packed in the hold there's less
    chance of something wearing through the tyre and making it go pop? (I
    suppose the first question is which is more likely to suffer such wear - a
    hard or soft tyre?)

    cheers,
    clive
     
    Tags:


  2. JLB

    JLB Guest

    Clive George wrote:
    > Well, we all know that the ostensible reason, that the pressure in the hold
    > is lower so the tyre might pop is a crock of shit.
    >
    > What about deflating them so if it's badly packed in the hold there's less
    > chance of something wearing through the tyre and making it go pop? (I
    > suppose the first question is which is more likely to suffer such wear - a
    > hard or soft tyre?)


    Soft or deflated tyres are more easily damaged, in particular by being
    pinched against the rim, so it's still a crock of shit.


    --
    Joe * If I cannot be free I'll be cheap
     
  3. James Annan

    James Annan Guest

    Clive George wrote:

    > Well, we all know that the ostensible reason, that the pressure in the hold
    > is lower so the tyre might pop is a crock of shit.
    >
    > What about deflating them so if it's badly packed in the hold there's less
    > chance of something wearing through the tyre and making it go pop? (I
    > suppose the first question is which is more likely to suffer such wear - a
    > hard or soft tyre?)


    Um...smells like it...looks like it...yes, it's a crock of shit.

    James
    --
    If I have seen further than others, it is
    by treading on the toes of giants.
    http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/
     
  4. Clive George wrote:

    > Well, we all know that the ostensible reason, that the pressure in the hold
    > is lower so the tyre might pop is a crock of shit.
    >
    > What about deflating them so if it's badly packed in the hold there's less
    > chance of something wearing through the tyre and making it go pop? (I
    > suppose the first question is which is more likely to suffer such wear - a
    > hard or soft tyre?)
    >
    > cheers,
    > clive
    >
    >

    I think it's just that the airlines are wary of any compressed gas, so
    tyres get lumped in with Sodastream cartridges, scuba tanks and whatever
    else people might want to carry.

    The main reason they're wrong is (a) the hold of a passenger plane is
    pressurised if the cabin is; (b) even if it wasn't, reducing the outside
    pressure by an absolute maximum of 14.7psi makes sod all difference,
    unless your tyre is already overinflated by about 200% so it's on the
    verge of blowing off the rim.
     
  5. James Annan

    James Annan Guest

    Zog The Undeniable wrote:


    > I think it's just that the airlines are wary of any compressed gas, so
    > tyres get lumped in with Sodastream cartridges, scuba tanks and whatever
    > else people might want to carry.


    It's not even that they have thought about it particularly: it is simply
    a Rule, and therefore has a life of its own independent from any
    rational justification.

    James
    --
    If I have seen further than others, it is
    by treading on the toes of giants.
    http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/
     
  6. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    James Annan wrote:
    > Zog The Undeniable wrote:
    >
    >
    >> I think it's just that the airlines are wary of any compressed gas, so
    >> tyres get lumped in with Sodastream cartridges, scuba tanks and
    >> whatever else people might want to carry.

    >
    >
    > It's not even that they have thought about it particularly: it is simply
    > a Rule, and therefore has a life of its own independent from any
    > rational justification.
    >


    As you say it is in the rules if your tyres are pumped up over 40psi.
    The tyres are caught by the hazardous materials regulations which have a
    fairly simple definition for a container of compressed gas which catches
    bicycle tyres probably as an unintended consequence of using a fairly
    simple definition to ensure catching all the really hazardous situations.

    Compressed gases are defined as those exerting more than 40.6psi at 20C
    on their container (Division 2.2 of FAA DOT49CFR173.115 and its
    virtually identical ICAO equivalent). So if they are inflated to less
    than 40psi you are fine under that regulation (unless you pump them full
    of flammable or toxic gas)
    http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi...E=49&PART=173&SECTION=115&YEAR=1999&TYPE=TEXT

    British Airways seem to have taken it on themselves to override that as
    they now say:

    "British Airways Safety Services have determined that it is not
    necessary from a safety perspective to deflate typical tyres found on
    bikes and wheelchairs for carriage in the hold."

    In any case the actual hazard of an inflated bicycle tyre is virtually zero.

    Tony
     
  7. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Clive George wrote:
    > Well, we all know that the ostensible reason, that the pressure in
    > the hold is lower so the tyre might pop is a crock of shit.
    >
    > What about deflating them so if it's badly packed in the hold there's
    > less chance of something wearing through the tyre and making it go
    > pop? (I suppose the first question is which is more likely to suffer
    > such wear - a hard or soft tyre?)


    The tyres are the last thing I would worry about--flat tyres will stand
    plenty of abuse while being not ridden. But it's a shame the wheel rims
    won't have the ideal protective packaging of inflated tyres. Could use
    some foam or cardboard instead.

    ~PB
     
  8. mark

    mark Guest

    "Tony Raven" wrote
    > British Airways seem to have taken it on themselves to override that as
    > they now say:
    >
    > "British Airways Safety Services have determined that it is not
    > necessary from a safety perspective to deflate typical tyres found on
    > bikes and wheelchairs for carriage in the hold."
    >
    > In any case the actual hazard of an inflated bicycle tyre is virtually

    zero.
    >
    > Tony

    I read that statement on the BA website and left my bicycle's tires
    completely inflated when I flew from Denver to Heathrow, no problem
    When I returned from the UK to Denver on British Airways, the baggage staff
    insisted that I had to deflate the tires on my bicycle for safety reasons.
    When I quoted the above statement, I was told that BA management insisted
    that all bicycle tires be deflated for safety reasons. I decided that it
    might not be wise to argue with someone just as I was handing him a fairly
    expensive touring bike, and let him deflate the tires.

    Other than that little episode I thought BA ran a very good show, and took
    very good care of my unboxed bicycle.
    --
    mark
     
  9. On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 16:21:20 GMT, mark wrote:

    > "Tony Raven" wrote
    >> British Airways seem to have taken it on themselves to override that as
    >> they now say:
    >>
    >> "British Airways Safety Services have determined that it is not
    >> necessary from a safety perspective to deflate typical tyres found on
    >> bikes and wheelchairs for carriage in the hold."
    >>
    >> In any case the actual hazard of an inflated bicycle tyre is virtually

    > zero.
    >>
    >> Tony

    > I read that statement on the BA website and left my bicycle's tires
    > completely inflated when I flew from Denver to Heathrow, no problem
    > When I returned from the UK to Denver on British Airways, the baggage staff
    > insisted that I had to deflate the tires on my bicycle for safety reasons.
    > When I quoted the above statement, I was told that BA management insisted
    > that all bicycle tires be deflated for safety reasons.


    Your problem is that you had tires on your bike.

    If you'd had tyres then the BA staff in the UK would have applied a
    different set of rules. ;-)

    --
    Michael MacClancy
     
  10. Robert Clark

    Robert Clark Guest

    mark wrote:
    > "Tony Raven" wrote
    >
    >>British Airways seem to have taken it on themselves to override that as
    >>they now say:
    >>
    >>"British Airways Safety Services have determined that it is not
    >>necessary from a safety perspective to deflate typical tyres found on
    >>bikes and wheelchairs for carriage in the hold."
    >>
    >>In any case the actual hazard of an inflated bicycle tyre is virtually

    >
    > zero.
    >
    >>Tony

    >
    > I read that statement on the BA website and left my bicycle's tires
    > completely inflated when I flew from Denver to Heathrow, no problem
    > When I returned from the UK to Denver on British Airways, the baggage staff
    > insisted that I had to deflate the tires on my bicycle for safety reasons.
    > When I quoted the above statement, I was told that BA management insisted
    > that all bicycle tires be deflated for safety reasons. I decided that it
    > might not be wise to argue with someone just as I was handing him a fairly
    > expensive touring bike, and let him deflate the tires.
    >
    > Other than that little episode I thought BA ran a very good show, and took
    > very good care of my unboxed bicycle.


    I've found that it's a good idea, when travelling air with a bicycle, to
    be armed with print-outs from the airline's own website, detailing
    their bicycle policies. Too often the check-in staff are ill-trained or
    have seldom eperienced a bicycle ... so being able to show them their
    own policies helps!
     
  11. mark

    mark Guest

    "Michael MacClancy" wrote...
    > On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 16:21:20 GMT, mark wrote:
    >
    > > I read that statement on the BA website and left my bicycle's tires
    > > completely inflated when I flew from Denver to Heathrow, no problem
    > > When I returned from the UK to Denver on British Airways, the baggage

    staff
    > > insisted that I had to deflate the tires on my bicycle for safety

    reasons.
    > > When I quoted the above statement, I was told that BA management

    insisted
    > > that all bicycle tires be deflated for safety reasons.

    >
    > Your problem is that you had tires on your bike.
    >
    > If you'd had tyres then the BA staff in the UK would have applied a
    > different set of rules. ;-)
    >
    > --
    > Michael MacClancy


    My LBS only sells tires, no tyres to be had where I live.
    --
    mark
     
  12. JLB

    JLB Guest

    Robert Clark wrote:
    [snip]
    > I've found that it's a good idea, when travelling air with a bicycle, to
    > be armed with print-outs from the airline's own website, detailing
    > their bicycle policies. Too often the check-in staff are ill-trained or
    > have seldom eperienced a bicycle ... so being able to show them their
    > own policies helps!


    True, but on at least one occasion when I tried that the jobsworth took
    my bike with its inflated tyres after some grumbling, and at the other
    end I found the tyres were completely flat. Whether that was done by the
    first jobsworth or one who came along later I have no idea.

    --
    Joe * If I cannot be free I'll be cheap
     
  13. half_pint

    half_pint Guest

    Its not clear whether you are saying that the pressure in the hold is lower
    is untrue
    or that that they would pop under lower pressure.


    If the pressure is lower and you have inflted then to the max recommended
    pressure then they are more likely to pop.

    It is also unclear whether you are worried about the just the tire/tupe
    popping and requireing replacement(s) and possible insureance claims.

    Or whether the tire popping might damage the plane and cause it to
    crash, destroying the bike and your own life.

    Why not sneak into the luggage hold and inflate your tires to twice the
    maximum pressure just to prove how clever you are?

    If the plane does nose dive you can rest assured your were not responsible!

    I cannot recall a type bursting ever bringing down concord for instance as
    it says
    in the manufactures data that that cannnot happen.

    And of course a planes type is almost certainly inflated to a lower pressure
    than a bikes tyre, as car tyres (which are bigger) are.






    "Clive George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Well, we all know that the ostensible reason, that the pressure in the

    hold
    > is lower so the tyre might pop is a crock of shit.
    >
    > What about deflating them so if it's badly packed in the hold there's less
    > chance of something wearing through the tyre and making it go pop? (I
    > suppose the first question is which is more likely to suffer such wear - a
    > hard or soft tyre?)
    >
    > cheers,
    > clive
    >
    >
     
  14. You are all missing the point.

    The airlines just don't want to carry all that extra weight in those
    tires ..:)
     
  15. half_pint

    half_pint Guest

    They might be working on the assumption that cyclists have smaller,
    lighter brains.
    The extra bullshit might be a factor though.

    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > You are all missing the point.
    >
    > The airlines just don't want to carry all that extra weight in those
    > tires ..:)
    >
     
  16. half_pint wrote:
    >
    > And of course a planes type is almost certainly inflated to a lower pressure
    > than a bikes tyre, as car tyres (which are bigger) are.
    >


    Around 180-220psi for airliners so not really a job for a mini-pump.
     
  17. half_pint wrote:
    >
    > And of course a planes type is almost certainly inflated to a lower pressure
    > than a bikes tyre, as car tyres (which are bigger) are.
    >


    Around 180-220psi for airliners so not really a job for a mini-pump.
     
  18. half_pint

    half_pint Guest

    That seems high they must be rock solid


    "Vincent Wilcox" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > half_pint wrote:
    > >
    > > And of course a planes type is almost certainly inflated to a lower

    pressure
    > > than a bikes tyre, as car tyres (which are bigger) are.
    > >

    >
    > Around 180-220psi for airliners so not really a job for a mini-pump.
     
  19. David Martin

    David Martin Guest

    half_pint wrote:
    > That seems high they must be rock solid


    Do the math.

    How big is the contact patch. How heavy is an airliner?

    A quick google gives a maximum all up take off weight for a 757 at 122 tons

    That weight is spread over 18 tyres. Each tyre therefore supports approx
    6 tons on average [1].

    At 220 psi (or 100kg/sq in) that would give a contact patch on each tyre
    of 60 sq. in or a patch 6 inches long by ten inches wide. Seems about
    right to me.

    ...d


    [1] this is not th ecase. The weight would be spread over the 16 rear
    tyres more than the front two.

    >
    >
    > "Vincent Wilcox" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    >>half_pint wrote:
    >>
    >>>And of course a planes type is almost certainly inflated to a lower

    >
    > pressure
    >
    >>>than a bikes tyre, as car tyres (which are bigger) are.
    >>>

    >>
    >>Around 180-220psi for airliners so not really a job for a mini-pump.

    >
    >
    >
     
  20. half_pint

    half_pint Guest

    "David Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > half_pint wrote:
    > > That seems high they must be rock solid

    >
    > Do the math.
    >
    > How big is the contact patch. How heavy is an airliner?
    >
    > A quick google gives a maximum all up take off weight for a 757 at 122

    tons
    >
    > That weight is spread over 18 tyres. Each tyre therefore supports approx
    > 6 tons on average [1].
    >
    > At 220 psi (or 100kg/sq in) that would give a contact patch on each tyre
    > of 60 sq. in or a patch 6 inches long by ten inches wide. Seems about
    > right to me.
    >


    You could say the same about cars, they are very heavy compared to bikes.
    Depends on the size of the tyres I guess.
    I cant say I am familiar with the size of big aircraft tyres. if the
    dimensions were twice
    you estimates that would but the pressure down to a uater of 220 psi or
    55psi.
    I am not sure what the design considerations are on such tyres are but I
    guess
    small tyres take up less space.
    All i know is that the ride on my mountain bike at 60psi is pretty 'rough'
    At 220psi the wheels might as well be made of concrete.
     
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