On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:49:16 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
<
[email protected]> wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> That we're going back 18 years to find impressive cornering
>> suggests how rarely it matters even in the most important
>> races.
>>
>> And it's likely that the other riders could have kept close,
>> if not up--they just didn't see any point. In fact, given
>> motivation, it's likely that some of the other hundred or so
>> racers could have cornered faster--Hinault and Lemond would
>> have been in front and competing because their overall times
>> made the competition worth while, but they got to the front
>> by pedalling faster in the earlier stages, not by brilliant
>> cornering skills.
>>
>> Carl Fogel
>
>Actually going back 18 years was just an example of how cyclist can take the
>corners, lean angle.
>Today of course most all the Tour de France riders can corner like that, I'm
>sure you know.
>
>Getting back to the subject, "do cyclist make better motorcyclists?" I'll
>have to say no, two different machines.
>
>I was a cyclist before I was a motorcyclist. One of the worst things I
>tried to do was ride the motorcycle like a bicycle. Hello, there's a
>throttle there! After many years of motorcycling and non cycling, I got
>back into bicycles, and did a complete opposite, I tired to ride the bicycle
>like a motorcycle, no possible way.
>As far as picking your lines in the corners, it's the same, but not the same
>leaning into the curve and or accelerating out of the curve.
>
>I'm wondering if you ever rode motorcycles Carl? You just can't compare the
>two if you haven't.
> http://www.research-racing.de/mex154.jpg
>-tom
>
Dear Tom,
Apart from reaching master class status in the Rocky
Mountain Trials Association in 1974, setting up events,
teaching in trials schools, and--let's see--thirty-six years
of off-road riding in the Rocky Mountains since I was twelve
years old, I can scarcely claim to know one end of a
motorcycle from the other.
But somewhere or other I've heard that the fastest lines
through corners are actually quite different for bicycle and
motorcycles.
The racing bicyclist's aim is to maintain as high a speed as
possible throughout the entire turn because a bicycle
accelerates like a snail. What matters is not letting your
speed drop any lower than absolutely necessary, so you take
the widest, smoothest, most symmetrical line consistent
with the apex of the corner, something like this ) curve.
The racing motorcyclist, on the other hand, benefits from
braking far harder into the beginning of a turn and making a
much sharper, shorter, and uglier turn in order to get
squared away as soon as possible and use the engine to
drag-race to the next corner. The fastest motorcycle line
through a corner is more like an L than the ( of a bicycle..
Bicyclists strive to glide smoothly through turns without
losing speed, while motorcyclists stuff the front wheel into
turns, throw out the anchor, get lined up for the next turn,
and pull the trigger.
In addition to braking harder, the motorcyclist has to worry
about not accelerating too hard or too soon because his
engine can break his rear tire loose when he opens the
throttle, a danger unknown to bicyclists.
Of course, either technique can be used by either vehicle.
It's just that the wrong technique is slower.
As for the importance of cornering in motorcycling, I once
had my nose rubbed in it quite unintentionally. Near the end
of the 2-day Ute Cup Trial, I stopped to open a stubborn
barb-wire gate on a fast mountain trail. While I was rolling
my machine through, a wiry fellow twice my age arrived,
rolled through, parked his machine, and said here, let me
help you shut that. My contribution consisted of slipping
the wire loop over the wooden stick while he effortlessly
pulled the rusty, tangled mess close to the post.
After we kicked our machines back to life, he set out with
about a ten-yard head start. Our machines were effectively
identical Bultaco Sherpa T 326cc trials bikes. Back then, I
was a young and fairly fast rider for Colorado.
He disappeared from sight in the pine trees in a minute or
two. My engine was just as powerful as his, but some
mysterious force kept my throttle from opening as wide as
his opened, possibly my firm belief that it was insane to go
that fast.
He was retired, you see, and riding in the exhibition class,
but he knew a lot more than most people about cornering on
that kind of motorcycle. After all, he developed it. He also
won 7 Scott Trophies, several Scottish Six Day Trials, three
World Trials championships, numerous International Six Day
Trials, several Welsh Three Day Trials, and was champion of
Britain eleven years in a row in an era when that meant more
than the world trials championship. All that was after he
gave up a decent road racing career.
What really hurt my feelings was that Sammy Miller was on
vacation and just enjoying the Colorado scenery, not trying
to show off by going fast. He just didn't know how to corner
as slowly as riders like me. When not rocketing between
sections on the two 20-mile daily loops, he spent so much
time chatting with observers that he ended up with 0.3
penalty points for being 3 minutes late the second day.
He also didn't know how to put his feet down. S. Miller won
that Ute Cup handily, losing only 16 marks on observation in
the obstacle sections, half as many as L. Leavitt, the best
U.S. rider at the time, with a score of 32.
C. Fogel disgraced the Don's Cycles team by losing 163
marks, but learned that he was actually nowhere near the
limits of his machine's cornering abilities.
Carl Fogel
)
