Drop vs flat bars...

Quoted message said:

used to do a moderate amount of riding (60 - 80 miles a day, that sort of thing)

You call 60-80 miles a day /moderate/?

Simonb

ps, I bought a Sirrus and have since put drops on it cos I missed them so much. Good frame though.

"David Bertenshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

........ Except the man in the shop showed me the Specialized Sirrus range, with goodish
components and a lot of MTBy thingies like seat shock absorbers. And flat handlebars.

He said that many people are now using this setup for fast(ish) riding, because it's much more
comfortable (especially for people of my ahem 'generous' size) but is still capable of good
speeds/distances if you don't want to race.

Is this the new orthodoxy? It doesn't sound that comfortable to me over a long day because of the
lack of variety in hand positions, but I wondered what others' experiences/views/prejudices were?

I used to own a drop handlebar bike about 10 years ago before getting an MTB, but it was very rare
for me to actually use the drops, even when going flat out.

I guess "roadies" would look down on a flat bar bike, but since getting my new flat bar marin bear
valley hybrid (with 700x23c) I can easily keep up with the odd roadie that overtakes me, even though
it's usually in their slipstream rather than up front, so they probably get [censored] with me for
getting a free ride off their slipstream.

I had a drop bar road bike, but found I rarely used the drops. So when I replaced it I went for a flat bar bike, Cannondale Road Warrior, no regrets. It is technically slower, wider tires extra weight of headshock and seatpost suspension, slow it down, but as it’s so comfy I can maintain a higher average speed over longer distances. I’ve toured on it and done some Audax up to 400km without any problems. If you ride in traffic it’s also a better position to see over the cars and still be ready on the brakes. I no longer get the back and shoulder ache that used to cut some rides short and I’d put down to age! All the major manufacturers seem to offer them now so there’s a lot of choice, beware of the fancy spoked wheels, they won’t add much to the speed and are not as strong as traditionally spoked wheels.

Quoted message said:

Wife is listening mode ON> ... which of course is fine for my needs and I have absolutely no
thought of replacing whatsoever. I'd much rather pay for a new boiler for the kitchen. <Wife is
listening mode OFF>

... which I obviously want to exchange for something new and shiny at the earliest opportunity.

I am a wife. I am in wife mode. One can never spend too much money on bikes, bike bits or
accessories. One can never have too many bikes, bike bits or accessories. Wives can be very
surprising. ;-)

Quoted message said:

He said that many people are now using this setup for fast(ish) riding, because it's much more
comfortable (especially for people of my ahem 'generous' size) but is still capable of good
speeds/distances if you don't want to race.

I am fatbirdonabike. I use a bike (lightweight tourer/audax type thing - Bianchi San Remo)
with drops. Even though I am, indeed, fatbirdonabike and as well as the generous middle, I
have a generous bosum - drops are fine. Admittedly, this is my first bike with drops - but
being fatbirdonabike has not stopped me from getting used to them and now enjoying it - the
cycling too ;-)

Cheers, helen s

~~~~~~~~~~
This is sent from a redundant email Mail sent to it is dumped My correct one can be gleaned from
h$**$*$el$**e$n$**$d$**$o$*$t**$$s$**$im$mo$ns*@a$**o$l.c$$*o$*m*$ by getting rid of the
overdependence on money and fame
~~~~~~~~~~

David,

Have you considered moustache bars? These give you the benefits of both straight and drop bars. There are three distinct hand positions making it easy to go from upright to fairly "aero".

They're most commonly used in the US, particularly by fans of Rivendell bicycles where they've developed a bit of a cult following. You can see what they look like here (you have to scroll down a wee bit):
http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/membership_atlantis7.html

I have a couple of pairs and like them a lot. They're particularly good with bar end shifters. I think SJS Cycles might have them in stock.

If you're feeling flush, a Rivendell would be the perfect bike for you in fact. It might be an idea to check out the specification and try to duplicate it over here.

Cheers,
Bruce

David,

Have you considered moustache bars? These give you the benefits of both straight and drop bars. There are three distinct hand positions making it easy to go from upright to fairly "aero".

They're most commonly used in the US, particularly by fans of Rivendell bicycles where they've developed a bit of a cult following. You can see what they look like here (you have to scroll down a wee bit):
http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/membership_atlantis7.html

I have a couple of pairs and like them a lot. They're particularly good with bar end shifters. I think SJS Cycles might have them in stock.

If you're feeling flush, a Rivendell would be the perfect bike for you in fact. It might be an idea to check out the specification and try to duplicate it over here.

Cheers,
Bruce

I just bought the Sirrus expert with carbon forks. I'm very pleased with it - more speed less effort
and I've not had drops since 1999. I would say the sirrus is the more roady of hybrids and the susp
seat post and carbon forks soak up any bumps from my 14st 6lb frame!

Alan (not so young either) "David Bertenshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi...

I've been lurking for a week now - I've steeled myself to ask the first question...

But the preliminaries out of the way first: Old(ish), fat, unfit, used to do a moderate amount of
riding (60 - 80 miles a day, that sort of thing) and I want to start cycling again regularly after
a good 10 years layoff. I've got a goodish Harry Hall 18 speed tourer that's now 18 years old...

<Wife is listening mode ON> ... which of course is fine for my needs and I have absolutely no
thought of replacing whatsoever. I'd much rather pay for a new boiler for the kitchen. <Wife is
listening mode OFF>

... which I obviously want to exchange for something new and shiny at the earliest opportunity.

So there I was in the bike shop. I don't want an out-and-out racer, but I don't want a full tourer
either - in other words, An audaxy thing in other words, with 'proper' drop handlebars, because
that's what proper bikes had when I last did any cycling...

Except the man in the shop showed me the Specialized Sirrus range, with goodish components and a
lot of MTBy thingies like seat shock absorbers. And flat handlebars.

He said that many people are now using this setup for fast(ish) riding, because it's much more
comfortable (especially for people of my ahem 'generous' size) but is still capable of good
speeds/distances if you don't want to race.

Is this the new orthodoxy? It doesn't sound that comfortable to me over a long day because of the
lack of variety in hand positions, but I wondered what others' experiences/views/prejudices were?

Thanks

David

(wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX) said:

I am a wife. I am in wife mode. One can never spend too much money on bikes, bike bits or
accessories. One can never have too many bikes, bike bits or accessories. Wives can be very
surprising. ;-)

Indeed, and mine often is. Particularly on the subject of books and meals out where we are equally
enthusiastic wastrels. However, I'm still on probation after the 'new laptop and wireless network'
incident...

Even when I'm forgiven (about 2010), then I think that the tradtional marital mathematics will
resume. ie.

One new dress @ £100 bought every couple of months is far less extravagant than one £600 bike bought
every 18 years...

Quoted message said:

I am fatbirdonabike. I use a bike (lightweight tourer/audax type thing - Bianchi San Remo)
with drops. Even though I am, indeed, fatbirdonabike and as well as the generous middle, I
have a generous bosum - drops are fine. Admittedly, this is my first bike with drops - but
being fatbirdonabike has not stopped me from getting used to them and now enjoying it - the
cycling too ;-)

That's my initial thought too, but playing with new toys wouldn't be as much fun if they didn't
change them now and then...

David

Alan said:

I just bought the Sirrus expert with carbon forks. I'm very pleased with it - more speed less
effort and I've not had drops since 1999. I would say the sirrus is the more roady of hybrids and
the susp seat post and carbon forks soak up any bumps from my 14st 6lb frame!

Alan (not so young either)

Only 14st 6lbs - hah, lightweight....;-)

I wonder if they'll let me have a test ride?

Thanks

David

David Bertenshaw said:

So there I was in the bike shop. I don't want an out-and-out racer, but I don't want a full tourer
either - in other words, An audaxy thing in other words, with 'proper' drop handlebars, because
that's what proper bikes had when I last did any cycling...

Except the man in the shop showed me the Specialized Sirrus range, with goodish components and a
lot of MTBy thingies like seat shock absorbers. And flat handlebars.

He said that many people are now using this setup for fast(ish) riding, because it's much more
comfortable (especially for people of my ahem 'generous' size) but is still capable of good
speeds/distances if you don't want to race.

Is this the new orthodoxy? It doesn't sound that comfortable to me over a long day because of the
lack of variety in hand positions, but I wondered what others' experiences/views/prejudices were?

I use a perfectly standard ATB with no shock absorbers or fancy gizmos, and flat handlebars. I find
it perfectly comfortable for riding all day. Of course, I'm not as heavy as you, and may be a bit
younger (47), and one isn't riding *all* the time when out all day. But most of all, this is going
to be a personal thing, and what suits one peerson won't suit everyone. You can only find out if
flat handlebars suit you by trying them.

Pete Barrett

David

Main reason I use drops is for the various hand positions available. On a long ride I find this
important to avoid any numbness or cramp in the hands. I just don't find flat bars comfortable over
about 25miles even with bar ends

Woody

"David Bertenshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi...

I've been lurking for a week now - I've steeled myself to ask the first question...

But the preliminaries out of the way first: Old(ish), fat, unfit, used to do a moderate amount of
riding (60 - 80 miles a day, that sort of thing) and I want to start cycling again regularly after
a good 10 years layoff. I've got a goodish Harry Hall 18 speed tourer that's now 18 years old...

<Wife is listening mode ON> ... which of course is fine for my needs and I have absolutely no
thought of replacing whatsoever. I'd much rather pay for a new boiler for the kitchen. <Wife is
listening mode OFF>

... which I obviously want to exchange for something new and shiny at the earliest opportunity.

So there I was in the bike shop. I don't want an out-and-out racer, but I don't want a full tourer
either - in other words, An audaxy thing in other words, with 'proper' drop handlebars, because
that's what proper bikes had when I last did any cycling...

Except the man in the shop showed me the Specialized Sirrus range, with goodish components and a
lot of MTBy thingies like seat shock absorbers. And flat handlebars.

He said that many people are now using this setup for fast(ish) riding, because it's much more
comfortable (especially for people of my ahem 'generous' size) but is still capable of good
speeds/distances if you don't want to race.

Is this the new orthodoxy? It doesn't sound that comfortable to me over a long day because of the
lack of variety in hand positions, but I wondered what others' experiences/views/prejudices were?

Thanks

David

David Bertenshaw said:

Is this the new orthodoxy? It doesn't sound that comfortable to me over a long day because of the
lack of variety in hand positions, but I wondered what others' experiences/views/prejudices were?

I returned to cycling after a long (> 10 years) layoff and am a bit of fat boy at the moment.. I got
a Dave Yates Audax frame all done up with shimano Tiagra gear and drop bars.

I find it very comfortable. With threadless stems you can start with the stem 'upside down' and
leave plenty of stearer tube under the stem, then slowly work it down as you get more supple and the
gut gets smaller. I've settled at about 1/2 " below the saddle. A lot of roadies seem to have it
lower than track bikes used to about 15 years ago, that would be uncomfortable

When I was first into cycling, I liked MTB's for a laff, but never felt you could get into a rhythm
with them, I nevre knew wher to put my elbows.

--
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK

Love this: Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
home.in.tum.deoe quotefixOpen ↗

"Bruce Robbins" wrote

Quoted message said:

David,

Have you considered moustache bars? These give you the benefits of both straight and drop bars.
There are three distinct hand positions making it easy to go from upright to fairly "aero".

They're most commonly used in the US, particularly by fans of Rivendell bicycles where they've
developed a bit of a cult following. You can see what they look like here (you have to scroll down
a wee bit): rivendellbicycles.commembership atlantis7.htmlOpen ↗

I have a couple of pairs and like them a lot. They're particularly good with bar end shifters. I
think SJS Cycles might have them in stock.

If you're feeling flush, a Rivendell would be the perfect bike for you in fact. It might be an
idea to check out the specification and try to duplicate it over here.

Cheers, Bruce

Moustache bars are great, I use them with bar end shifters on my winter commuter (1986 Stumpjumper
w/ lots of modern bits). I can't help but notice that people who buy Rivendells for the "Audaxy"
riding seem to go for drop bars, especially the various Nitto bars that Rivendell offers.

If Dave's wife thinks 600 pounds is "extravagant" for a complete bicycle, what's she going to say
about US$2300 (GBP 1400 or so) for a Rivendell frame?
--
mark

Phil Bixby said:

Quoted message said:

Simonb

ps, I bought a Sirrus and have since put drops on it cos I missed them so much. Good frame
though.

Have done exactly the same - there must be lots of drop-barred Sirruses out there! However, I
enjoyed riding the Sirrus so much that I've since gone one step beyond and built meself up a
Cervelo as a "summer" bike; had I known I was going to get lured into that I may have left the
original (flat) bars on the Sirrus for about town use. The original poster probably ought to keep
his missus WELL out of the way should this same train of thought take hold.....

David - get one and enjoy!

Thanks to all who replied. Still not sure, but it's interesting to see the different perspectives.
Anyway, there's a long and grovelling road to go before I can hand over the plastic...

Thanks again

David

"David Bertenshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

But the preliminaries out of the way first: Old(ish), fat, unfit, used to do a moderate amount of
riding (60 - 80 miles a day, that sort of thing) and I want to start cycling again regularly after
a good 10 years layoff. I've got a goodish Harry Hall 18 speed tourer that's now 18 years old...

... which I obviously want to exchange for something new and shiny at the earliest opportunity.

So there I was in the bike shop. I don't want an out-and-out racer, but I don't want a full tourer
either - in other words, An audaxy thing in other words, with 'proper' drop handlebars, because
that's what proper bikes had when I last did any cycling...

Flat bars are "proper" bars! I just wonder how many people where put off cycling by the fashion for
'proper' drop handlebars (complete with suicide levers - oh, the ultimate indictment against drops
for the masses) before the MTB came along.

Quoted message said:

Except the man in the shop showed me the Specialized Sirrus range, with goodish components and a
lot of MTBy thingies like seat shock absorbers. And flat handlebars.

He said that many people are now using this setup for fast(ish) riding, because it's much more
comfortable (especially for people of my ahem 'generous' size) but is still capable of good
speeds/distances if you don't want to race.

A big benefit with flats is that you have better control in tight spots. The brakes are more
accessable and V brakes are better than side pull (even if dual pivot). Down hill you can crouch
just a well on flats but if sight lines shorten you can sit up and get some aero braking.

Quoted message said:

Is this the new orthodoxy? It doesn't sound that comfortable to me over a long day because of the
lack of variety in hand positions, but I wondered what others' experiences/views/prejudices were?

If you fit bar ends to flats you get just as much hand freedom. I have bikes with both set ups and
use straights for most of my riding (about 3:1 majority) and for rides of longer distances.

I guess much depends on the type of riding you intend. I like narrow country lanes and to look
around me while riding. Some of the people I ride with like drops even for that - but they never
seem to use the drop unless forced to in order to reach the brake, so why bother?

David Roberts

In message <[email hidden]>, DR <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"David Bertenshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Is this the new orthodoxy? It doesn't sound that comfortable to me over a long day because of the
lack of variety in hand positions, but I wondered what others' experiences/views/prejudices were?

If you fit bar ends to flats you get just as much hand freedom. I have bikes with both set ups and
use straights for most of my riding (about 3:1 majority) and for rides of longer distances.

I have bikes with drops, straight, and straight with bar ends (actually the straight bars aren't
very straight of very flat - they are riser bars with a fair bit of angle on the hand grip part of
the bars - I used to find the older type of flat MTB type bars very uncomfortable on the road.) And
I have had upturned cutoff drops before now as well.

I don't find the bar ends a substitute for drops - I basically have two hand positions - with drops
I have 3 on the tops plus the drops as well. I did find the upside down and cutoff drops more
comfortable than flats with barends as well I think, I may try them again.

This isn't an issue for me on shorter rides (say upto about 30 miles) when I may be on and off the
bike a lot, such as when out with the kiddie trailer.

For longer rides I find I do miss the drops.

Quoted message said:

I guess much depends on the type of riding you intend. I like narrow country lanes and to look
around me while riding. Some of the people I ride with like drops even for that - but they never
seem to use the drop unless forced to in order to reach the brake, so why bother?

I do spend most of my time on the tops in one position or another. But I do sue them often enough to
miss them if they aren't there.
--
Chris French, Leeds

In message <[email hidden]>, DR <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

If you fit bar ends to flats you get just as much hand freedom.

Coincidentally I've just read an article about hand positions on drops. The author identifies 8
different positions. I doubt there are as many on flats.
--
Michael MacClancy

David Bertenshaw said:

He said that many people are now using this setup for fast(ish) riding, because it's much more
comfortable (especially for people of my ahem 'generous' size) but is still capable of good
speeds/distances if you don't want to race.

Is this the new orthodoxy? It doesn't sound that comfortable to me over a long day because of the
lack of variety in hand positions, but I wondered what others' experiences/views/prejudices were?

People like them because they're getting on and trying them having not previously adjusted
themselves to drops, and that adjustment does take a finite amount of time. People like us did it as
kids, when you had to have a drop bar bike or be a nonentity, so were happy to put the time
in. I still think drops are probably better if you're happy with them, as there are more places to
put your hands/directions for wrists which does make a difference over a long day. Also the
case, IMHO, that people associate drops with fairly extreme forward lean, though whether or not
that's the case is down to how they're set up. Flat bars can be made better with bar ends, but
you still don't have the range of proper drops as the continuous curvature rather than "here or
there, nothing in between" affords many more possibilities.

So, I use drop bars, right? No, I ride a genuinely comfortable bike, with hardly any weight on the
bars at all, and a comfy seat with back support instead of a wee leather triangle. But if I wanted
an Audax or similar on more conventional lines it would very probably use drops. But in the
meantime, if you wish to go on light day tours in comfort without carrying a kitchen sink, think
about this sort of thing... kinetics.org.ukspeedmachine.htmlOpen ↗

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Michael MacClancy said:

In message <[email hidden]>, DR <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

If you fit bar ends to flats you get just as much hand freedom.

Quoted message said:

Coincidentally I've just read an article about hand positions on drops. The author identifies 8
different positions. I doubt there are as many on flats.

You need them on drops because they're so uncomfortable. The point of drops is a crouched riding
position for lowered wind resistance. Makes b***** all diff in urban commuting, but that didn't
prevent urban commuters from using them because they were fashionable. Today's fashionable urban
commuters ride mudguardless mountain bikes and get plastered with filthy water in the rain, which is
even sillier. The only way bicycle commuting will ever take off will be when bike shops stop selling
people fashion accessories instead of practical bicycles.

Given what cars people buy, expecting people to stop buying fashion accessories on their own
initiative rather than practical vehicles is a doomed expectation.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 650 3085 DoD #205 School of Informatics, Edinburgh
University, 5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK. [dai.ed.ac.ukcamOpen ↗ ]