Drop vs flat bars...

In message <[email hidden]>, Chris Malcolm <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Michael MacClancy said:

In message <[email hidden]>, DR <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

If you fit bar ends to flats you get just as much hand freedom.

Quoted message said:

Coincidentally I've just read an article about hand positions on drops. The author identifies 8
different positions. I doubt there are as many on flats.

You need them on drops because they're so uncomfortable.

I don't agree. It's obviously a matter of opinion, preference or bike set up. The drops on my racer
are much more comfortable than the flats on my MTB. I use most of the positions on my drops from
time to time and it's for reasons of function not comfort.
--
Michael MacClancy

Chris Malcolm said:

You need them on drops because they're so uncomfortable. The point of drops is a crouched riding
position for lowered wind resistance.

This may be the case with a race bike, but on a touring bike that's just one of the options (and if
you face 20 miles into a strong headwind to finish a long day, quite possibly a useful net comfort
benefit) and multiple hand positions are the main point. And on a tourer you're quite likely to have
them set up quite a bit higher than on a race bike, so you're in less of a crouch in any case. I
rarely use the full drop position on a drop bar bike, but make a lot of use of everywhere between
the stem and the hoods.

Quoted message said:

b***** all diff in urban commuting

Indeed the case, but the OP is looking at 60-80 miles a day. After a while on a distance ride I
use alternative hand positions a lot when I'm on drop bars, and I miss the facility on flats, even
with bar ends.

Quoted message said:

The only way bicycle commuting will ever take off will be when bike shops stop selling people
fashion accessories instead of practical bicycles.

Drops aren't really much point on an urban commute bike, but they won't render it actively poor. I
used to have a one-for-everything bike, and it was a drop bar tourer, and I used to commute on it.
The drops didn't make it better for that, but they didn't make it bad for it either. A drop bar
tourer is an amazingly practical bike that can do most things at least acceptably well.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Peter Clinch said:

David Bertenshaw said:

He said that many people are now using this setup for fast(ish) riding, because it's much more
comfortable (especially for people of my ahem 'generous' size) but is still capable of good
speeds/distances if you don't want to race.

Is this the new orthodoxy? It doesn't sound that comfortable to me over a long day because of the
lack of variety in hand positions, but I wondered what others' experiences/views/prejudices were?

People like them because they're getting on and trying them having not previously adjusted
themselves to drops, and that adjustment does take a finite amount of time. People like us did it
as kids, when you had to have a drop bar bike or be a nonentity, so were happy to put the time
in.

Makes a lot of sense to me. First bike I had (1967ish, age 9) had flat bars. Everything else since
then has had drops, apart from the old megamonster with sturmey archer 3 speed gears that I had to
ride for work in the early eighties...

Quoted message said:

So, I use drop bars, right? No, I ride a genuinely comfortable bike, with hardly any weight on the
bars at all, and a comfy seat with back support instead of a wee leather triangle. But if I wanted
an Audax or similar on more conventional lines it would very probably use drops. But in the
meantime, if you wish to go on light day tours in comfort without carrying a kitchen sink, think
about this sort of thing... kinetics.org.ukspeedmachine.htmlOpen ↗

Mmmm - not sure I'm ready for that sort of investment yet...

Thanks

David

The drop-bar/straight bar issue is complicated these days by the range of different drop bars that
are available. I prefer the tops of drop bars to be level all the way round to the hoods. However,
with the ITM Super Europa bars, that came with the 2nd hand Dawes Galaxy I am have just bought, this
level position can not be achieved without the drops being unreachable; to make the drops reachable
the tops of the bars have to angled downwards, a position I find very unnatural to ride on. I hope
to remedy the situation with a set of 3T morphes I have just acquired.

John T Remove the singers of Spam before replying

(wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX) said:

I use a bike (lightweight tourer/audax type thing - Bianchi San Remo) with drops.

Oh wow the San Remo, a smart looking machine. I saw one of these in the bike shop in Castle
Heddingham that I think has now closed down - well they are no longer answering the phone. One thing
that struck me about this bike is the short top tube - not unlike my little Claud Bulter frame that
has just been trashed. Do Bianchi still do the San Remo? Does it have canit brakes or dual pivots. I
remember it being campag drive chain?

John T. Remove the singers of Spam before replying

Peter Clinch said:

Drops aren't really much point on an urban commute bike, but they won't render it actively poor.

Why's that?

Drops let you vary your position according to speed, gradient, fatigue wind etc. If you don't follow
fantasy racer fashion, they will be set up to be comfortable, but allow your to use the drops or
bend your arms for a burst of speed.

Mudguards are esssential, a bike without is a toy not a means of transport.

--
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK

Love this: Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
home.in.tum.deoe quotefixOpen ↗

AndyMorris said:

Drops let you vary your position according to speed, gradient, fatigue wind etc. If you don't
follow fantasy racer fashion, they will be set up to be comfortable, but allow your to use the
drops or bend your arms for a burst of speed.

If it's just a brief burst of speed then you could do it by just leaning forwards (or indeed getting
out of the seat and honking it). This only becomes a problem without arm support over medium to
longer distances, so if it's just brief then you don't need a drop bar to prop you up in a crouch.
And urban riding it's probably more useful to always have the brakes and gears at your fingertips
all the time rather than have a multitude of hand positions. Once you're out on the open road that
all changes though.

Quoted message said:

Mudguards are esssential, a bike without is a toy not a means of transport.

Though I personally prefer to ride with mudguards than get coated in clag if the road surface is
wet, I'd disagree with that. Also the case that there is nothing bad about being a toy: toys help
one have fun, and having fun is good. If you have fun by riding 100 miles to visit a friend on a
nice day then you have certainly been using transport, and arguably on a seriously good toy. The two
are in no way mutually exclusive.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

David Bertenshaw said:

Mmmm - not sure I'm ready for that sort of investment yet...

Fair enough, I won't pretend it's cheap. But OTOH my first 'bent was an =

Orbit Crystal which I picked up 2nd hand for =A3250 and then spent anothe= r=20 ~=A3100 on it. It
was plenty fast, and also a damn site more comfortable=
=20
than an upright, and took a standard rack as well.

If you do decide to look further along this avenue note that, just like=20 uprights, different
designs of 'bent are meant for different things.=20 There are designs which would be wonderful for
Audax or similar riding,=20 and others which would frankly be pretty hopeless.

Pete. --=20 Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics,
Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

"Michael MacClancy" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you fit bar ends to flats you get just as much hand freedom.

Coincidentally I've just read an article about hand positions on drops. The author identifies 8
different positions. I doubt there are as many on flats.

That is why I deliberately said "hand freedom", not "hand positions". Are all 8 really useful or
comfortable though? All possible from one set up? I use 3, possibly 4. I have 3 positions on flats
even without bar ends.

Hand positions aren't definitive measures of comfort though are they?: arms, back, neck position are
all important. Then there's the question of bike control. Very difficult to get all of them right.

David Roberts

"Chris Malcolm" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Michael MacClancy said:

<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you fit bar ends to flats you get just as much hand freedom.

Quoted message said:

Coincidentally I've just read an article about hand positions on drops. The author identifies 8
different positions. I doubt there are as many on flats.

You need them on drops because they're so uncomfortable. The point of drops is a crouched riding
position for lowered wind resistance. <snip>

Even though I am a drop bar sceptic, to be fair you may have a set up problem. There might be a
permutation that could be comfortable after some perseverence with an allen key or extra expense.
There's the rub. There are so many permutations of stem height and length, bar shape, bar rotation,
hood position its largely pot luck whether you find something that suits.

Is it worth it? I bought a second hand bike partly to find out what the fuss was about. The original
stem & handle bar really did not suit and rather than cut my losses and throw the whole thing in a
skip (it is too nice a frame), after replacement it finally became ridable. It's good to ride
occasionally and the experiment shows that drop can have lower air resistance. From the comfort POV,
it's not life changing.

David Roberts

"David Bertenshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]... asked "drops or flat ?"

I don't remotely do as much cycling as you used to do but having recently looked at putting flat
bars on the wife's tourer (needed due to bad back) you need to bear in mind that these days flat
bars need different brake levers and brakes from drops so it is a non-trivial job swapping over if
not done at time of purchase. So whichever you choose it'll be a pain to change your mind later

For what it's worth I'd get drops - and although my experience is limited compared to yours, but
might be worth considering the following :

What are you used to, and were you happy with that set-up ?

Give your current bike a go for a while and then decide what's wrong with it - or at least which
bits you'd change if purchasing a new one.

How may serious road bikes (in the sense of bikes for cycling on the road) do you see with flat bars
? Apparenlty at least one mountain bike champ uses drops too.

If you suffer from a bad back or other problem - then it may or may not be the right choice.

As an aside, rather than changing the wife's handlebars she bought a new bike - a flat-bared tourer
/ hybrid from Thorn. I was sufficiently impressed so bought the same model with drops. Each has
completely different brake set-up. So an expensive bit of shopping altogether.

Cheers

Hywel

Hywel & Ros said:

"David Bertenshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]... asked "drops or flat ?" For what it's worth I'd
get drops - and although my experience is limited compared to yours, but might be worth considering
the following :

What are you used to, and were you happy with that set-up ?

I was/am perfectly happy with drops - I just wondered what the thinking behind the shift in usage
was. Is it just marketing or did people think there were real benefits?

I suspect I'll stick to what I'm used to...

Thanks

DAvid