Espirit de corps

Richard Goodman said:

"Helen Deborah Vecht" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark Thompson" <[email hidden] (change warm for

hot)>typed

Quoted message said:

If you wheel your bike past a red light, you *are* breaking the law...

Weell, it depends how you do it. If you get off before the stop line, lift it onto the pavement,
pass the stop line on the pavement, put it back on the road after passing the stop line and then
cross as a pedestrian you're not.

I always understood you had to pick your bike up too or you would still be in charge of a vehicle,
instead of carrying a heap of bike bits. I've heard it so many times its perhaps a myth.

John B

Michael MacClancy said:

"Vincent Wilcox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Trevor Barton wrote:

<extreme snipping>

Quoted message said:

Motorists don't deliberately target cyclists, irrespective

of the stories that are often told here - those same stupid

Quoted message said:

motorists who star in anecdotes in here will be acting just as

aggressively towards all other road users.

Quoted message said:

Don't believe it.

Is that a command or a statement?

Anyway if you honestly believe that "those same stupid motorists who star in anecdotes in here
will be acting just as aggressively towards all other road users" is untrue you must be so
paranoid that a visit to the quack is in order.
___
Michael MacClancy

Do you honestly believe that "those same stupid motorists who star in anecdotes here" would behave
in that manner to say a chapter of Hells Angels or an armoured vehicle?

I would tend towards paranoia as being healthier on the road than optimism. "Oohh maybe this car
pulling close to me want's to congratulate me for cycling and say hello."

Tony Raven said:

Clive George said:

If you're used to doing this like I am in sunny Yorkshire, then carry on doing so in Cambridge
when down for a visit, you get roundly ignored...

Never quite understand this. I never wave to all the other drivers when I'm driving, not even
drivers of the same make of car as I'm driving

When we had a Triumph Spitfire 10 years or so ago we used to exchange waves with other Spitfire and
GT6 drivers. Even Herald and Vitesse drivers would wave or nod. The occasional Stag driver would
acknowledge us but none of the various TR drivers would.

Colin
--

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive George said:

If you're used to doing this like I am in sunny Yorkshire, then carry on doing so in Cambridge
when down for a visit, you get roundly ignored...

Never quite understand this. I never wave to all the other drivers when

I'm

Quoted message said:

driving, not even drivers of the same make of car as I'm driving (although

I

Quoted message said:

can remember by Dad doing so when I was young and the RAC man always used

to

Quoted message said:

salute then). I never wave to all the other pedestrians when I'm walking.

So

Quoted message said:

why would I wave to all the other bike riders when I'm cycling?

Coz we're nice friendly people round here.

I say hello to other walkers out on the hills too when it isn't busy.

(I think it's the frequency of encounters which determines the behaviour - which puts waving to
drivers out. And they can't see you anyway.)

cheers, clive

Tony Raven said:

Clive George said:

If you're used to doing this like I am in sunny Yorkshire, then carry on doing so in Cambridge
when down for a visit, you get roundly ignored...

Never quite understand this. I never wave to all the other drivers when I'm driving, not even
drivers of the same make of car as I'm driving

When we had a Triumph Spitfire 10 years or so ago we used to exchange waves with other Spitfire and
GT6 drivers. Even Herald and Vitesse drivers would wave or nod. The occasional Stag driver would
acknowledge us but none of the various TR drivers would.

Colin
--

Richard Goodman said:

"Helen Deborah Vecht" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark Thompson" <[email hidden] (change warm for

hot)>typed

Quoted message said:

If you wheel your bike past a red light, you *are* breaking the law...

Weell, it depends how you do it. If you get off before the stop line, lift it onto the pavement,
pass the stop line on the pavement, put it back on the road after passing the stop line and then
cross as a pedestrian you're not.

I always understood you had to pick your bike up too or you would still be in charge of a vehicle,
instead of carrying a heap of bike bits. I've heard it so many times its perhaps a myth.

John B

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive George said:

If you're used to doing this like I am in sunny Yorkshire, then carry on doing so in Cambridge
when down for a visit, you get roundly ignored...

Never quite understand this. I never wave to all the other drivers when

I'm

Quoted message said:

driving, not even drivers of the same make of car as I'm driving (although

I

Quoted message said:

can remember by Dad doing so when I was young and the RAC man always used

to

Quoted message said:

salute then). I never wave to all the other pedestrians when I'm walking.

So

Quoted message said:

why would I wave to all the other bike riders when I'm cycling?

Coz we're nice friendly people round here.

I say hello to other walkers out on the hills too when it isn't busy.

(I think it's the frequency of encounters which determines the behaviour - which puts waving to
drivers out. And they can't see you anyway.)

cheers, clive

Michael MacClancy said:

"Vincent Wilcox" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Trevor Barton wrote:

<extreme snipping>

Quoted message said:

Motorists don't deliberately target cyclists, irrespective

of the stories that are often told here - those same stupid

Quoted message said:

motorists who star in anecdotes in here will be acting just as

aggressively towards all other road users.

Quoted message said:

Don't believe it.

Is that a command or a statement?

Anyway if you honestly believe that "those same stupid motorists who star in anecdotes in here
will be acting just as aggressively towards all other road users" is untrue you must be so
paranoid that a visit to the quack is in order.
___
Michael MacClancy

Do you honestly believe that "those same stupid motorists who star in anecdotes here" would behave
in that manner to say a chapter of Hells Angels or an armoured vehicle?

I would tend towards paranoia as being healthier on the road than optimism. "Oohh maybe this car
pulling close to me want's to congratulate me for cycling and say hello."

"Michael MacClancy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyway if you honestly believe that "those same stupid motorists who star

in

Quoted message said:

anecdotes in here will be acting just as aggressively towards all other

road

Quoted message said:

users" is untrue you must be so paranoid that a visit to the quack is in order.

Nice little highlight from TRL549, on drivers' attitutes to cyclists:

- Vulnerable – perceived greater potential for involvement and then injury or death from traffic
accidents;
- Irresponsible – due to an absence of training or formal commitment to lawful behaviour;
- Despised – cycling should be provided for through separate facilities and not allowed on roads;
- Dangerous – cyclists pose risks to themselves and other road users; Erratic/Unpredictable – for
example: weaving in and out of traffic, not signalling intentions, etc.;
- Arrogant – it was felt that cyclists seemed to believe they were invincible or that other road
users were responsible for their safety; and
- Inconvenient – basic characteristics of cycling were perceived as fundamentally different and
delaying to motorised road use.

I particularly enjoyed the one where drivers, who cause 90% of all road fatalities, accuse us of
being dangerous to other road users.

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

Tony Raven said:

Never quite understand this. I never wave to all the other drivers when I'm driving, not even
drivers of the same make of car as I'm driving (although I can remember by Dad doing so when I was
young and the RAC man always used to salute then). I never wave to all the other pedestrians when
I'm walking. So why would I wave to all the other bike riders when I'm cycling?

I quite often find myself saluting drivers. Like so:
shakti.trincoll.edusecret.htmlOpen ↗

Tony Raven said:

Clive George said:

If you're used to doing this like I am in sunny Yorkshire, then carry on doing so in Cambridge
when down for a visit, you get roundly ignored...

Never quite understand this. I never wave to all the other drivers when I'm driving, not even
drivers of the same make of car as I'm driving

When we had a Triumph Spitfire 10 years or so ago we used to exchange waves with other Spitfire and
GT6 drivers. Even Herald and Vitesse drivers would wave or nod. The occasional Stag driver would
acknowledge us but none of the various TR drivers would.

Colin
--

"Michael MacClancy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyway if you honestly believe that "those same stupid motorists who star

in

Quoted message said:

anecdotes in here will be acting just as aggressively towards all other

road

Quoted message said:

users" is untrue you must be so paranoid that a visit to the quack is in order.

Nice little highlight from TRL549, on drivers' attitutes to cyclists:

- Vulnerable – perceived greater potential for involvement and then injury or death from traffic
accidents;
- Irresponsible – due to an absence of training or formal commitment to lawful behaviour;
- Despised – cycling should be provided for through separate facilities and not allowed on roads;
- Dangerous – cyclists pose risks to themselves and other road users; Erratic/Unpredictable – for
example: weaving in and out of traffic, not signalling intentions, etc.;
- Arrogant – it was felt that cyclists seemed to believe they were invincible or that other road
users were responsible for their safety; and
- Inconvenient – basic characteristics of cycling were perceived as fundamentally different and
delaying to motorised road use.

I particularly enjoyed the one where drivers, who cause 90% of all road fatalities, accuse us of
being dangerous to other road users.

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 10:31:30 -0000 someone who may be "Michael MacClancy"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Motorists don't deliberately target cyclists, irrespective of the stories that are often
told here

news.bbc.co.uk2725329.stmOpen ↗

That's one of the most blatant distorting snips I've ever seen.

Incorrect.

It is entirely accurate and there is not the slightest distortion of what was written.

Quoted message said:

What the OP actually wrote was:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Motorists don't deliberately target cyclists, irrespective of the stories that are often told here
- those same stupid motorists who star in anecdotes in here will be acting just as aggressively

towards all other road users.

Which adds nothing to the bit which I quoted and to which I was responding.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive George said:

If you're used to doing this like I am in sunny Yorkshire, then carry on doing so in Cambridge
when down for a visit, you get roundly ignored...

Never quite understand this. I never wave to all the other drivers when

I'm

Quoted message said:

driving, not even drivers of the same make of car as I'm driving (although

I

Quoted message said:

can remember by Dad doing so when I was young and the RAC man always used

to

Quoted message said:

salute then). I never wave to all the other pedestrians when I'm walking.

So

Quoted message said:

why would I wave to all the other bike riders when I'm cycling?

Coz we're nice friendly people round here.

I say hello to other walkers out on the hills too when it isn't busy.

(I think it's the frequency of encounters which determines the behaviour - which puts waving to
drivers out. And they can't see you anyway.)

cheers, clive

Tony Raven said:

Never quite understand this. I never wave to all the other drivers when I'm driving, not even
drivers of the same make of car as I'm driving (although I can remember by Dad doing so when I was
young and the RAC man always used to salute then). I never wave to all the other pedestrians when
I'm walking. So why would I wave to all the other bike riders when I'm cycling?

I quite often find myself saluting drivers. Like so:
shakti.trincoll.edusecret.htmlOpen ↗

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 10:31:30 -0000 someone who may be "Michael MacClancy"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Motorists don't deliberately target cyclists, irrespective of the stories that are often
told here

news.bbc.co.uk2725329.stmOpen ↗

That's one of the most blatant distorting snips I've ever seen.

Incorrect.

It is entirely accurate and there is not the slightest distortion of what was written.

Quoted message said:

What the OP actually wrote was:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Motorists don't deliberately target cyclists, irrespective of the stories that are often told here
- those same stupid motorists who star in anecdotes in here will be acting just as aggressively

towards all other road users.

Which adds nothing to the bit which I quoted and to which I was responding.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

James Hodson said:

I also found it curious that "commercial drivers" or whatever the phrase used was are the most
anti-cyclist when they are, IME and that of others in this NG, AFAIK, think that HGVers, and the
like, are some of the better drivers around.

With the exception of bus drivers, who seem to need badly to be killed.

--

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

"PK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just as the attitude of cyclists ignoring pelican crossings, and

pedestrians

Quoted message said:

crossing on traffic lights exists for real on the roads. And cyclists

acting

Quoted message said:

aggressively and dangerously to other cyclists and walkers exists off

road.

And where did I say it didn't? On the other hand, you are two hundred times more likely to be killed
on the pavement by a car than a bicycle, so maybe the problem isn't as big as you make out.

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

"Michael MacClancy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyway if you honestly believe that "those same stupid motorists who star

in

Quoted message said:

anecdotes in here will be acting just as aggressively towards all other

road

Quoted message said:

users" is untrue you must be so paranoid that a visit to the quack is in order.

Nice little highlight from TRL549, on drivers' attitutes to cyclists:

- Vulnerable – perceived greater potential for involvement and then injury or death from traffic
accidents;
- Irresponsible – due to an absence of training or formal commitment to lawful behaviour;
- Despised – cycling should be provided for through separate facilities and not allowed on roads;
- Dangerous – cyclists pose risks to themselves and other road users; Erratic/Unpredictable – for
example: weaving in and out of traffic, not signalling intentions, etc.;
- Arrogant – it was felt that cyclists seemed to believe they were invincible or that other road
users were responsible for their safety; and
- Inconvenient – basic characteristics of cycling were perceived as fundamentally different and
delaying to motorised road use.

I particularly enjoyed the one where drivers, who cause 90% of all road fatalities, accuse us of
being dangerous to other road users.

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

James Hodson said:

I also found it curious that "commercial drivers" or whatever the phrase used was are the most
anti-cyclist when they are, IME and that of others in this NG, AFAIK, think that HGVers, and the
like, are some of the better drivers around.

With the exception of bus drivers, who seem to need badly to be killed.

--

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================