Frame suggestions

Quoted message said:

Ron Ruff said:

Quoted message said:

G.T. wrote:
> Hot looking? When I was looking at it earlier I was thinking to myself how
> ugly bikes have become.

Same here. IMO, it's just plain bugly, even among "modern" frames. It
kinda looks like some of the stuff that shows up on Chucksbikes.com for
under $100.

I like the Leader frame. Plus it is worth it to not have "Scattante"
all over the place...

I find the Leader far ugler than the other frame. To each his own. At
any rate, they are both commodity level, Asian made welded aluminum
frames.They might even be made in the same factory. Is the "Leader"
logo worth $130-175 more (the "Scattante" comes with fork and HS, the
"Leader" does not)?

I go back and forth on my stance on the Darth Vader look of the Leader.
But as you point out, it is quite a bit more expensive. Too expensive
given the option. I think I'll go for the other one.

As for durability of the headset, I have a box of 10 I picked up for
cheap at a closeout. That supply ought to last at least as long as the
frame!

The only thing I may miss with a cheap frame (Taiwan produced or not)
is bottom bracket stiffness. Being large and heavy, all but the most
expensive frames are too soft for me. Does it really matter just how
much too soft? As it stands I'd rather have a cheap bike that doesn't
deliver 100% of what I need rather than a moderatly expensive bike that
doesn't deliver 100% of what I need. When I can justify the expense of
a really nice bike, I may do that, but until then I'll stick to cheap
bikes.

Joseph

Quoted message said:

Donald Gillies said:

Quoted post said:

I have a Leader frame, an LD-715. I'm not sure if they still offer it
but I bought it one Christmas when they dropped their Ebay price to
$99. I had an early carbon fiber frame that I wanted to replace.
Anyhow, it has about 5000 miles on it now and I'm quite pleased with
it.

At $99, Chris King can complain all he wants about the non-durability
of integrated headsets. At $99, the frame becomes a throw-away item
compared to the outrageous cost of a Chris King headset.

You noticed that, too? IMO, the idea extends to a $200+ frame.

You won't see many CK headsets on 99-200 dollar frames. On a 2000-3000
dollar frames, 99 for a headset is peanuts.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

Lou Holtman said:

Quoted message said:

Donald Gillies said:

"[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> writes:

>I have a Leader frame, an LD-715. I'm not sure if they still offer it
>but I bought it one Christmas when they dropped their Ebay price to
>$99. I had an early carbon fiber frame that I wanted to replace.
>Anyhow, it has about 5000 miles on it now and I'm quite pleased with
>it.

At $99, Chris King can complain all he wants about the non-durability
of integrated headsets. At $99, the frame becomes a throw-away item
compared to the outrageous cost of a Chris King headset.

You noticed that, too? IMO, the idea extends to a $200+ frame.

You won't see many CK headsets on 99-200 dollar frames. On a 2000-3000
dollar frames, 99 for a headset is peanuts.

IMO, you, Don Gillies and I all agree on this point: the concern about
integrated headsets is a moot point on a cheap frame.

That said, I'll add this point: IMO, the Chris King headsets are one of
the most blatantly over-hyped and over rated pieces on the market. Are
they good quality? Sure. Are they in any way *exceptional*? Nope.
(Donning flame proof suit!!)

Quoted message said:

That said, I'll add this point: IMO, the Chris King headsets are one of
the most blatantly over-hyped and over rated pieces on the market. Are
they good quality? Sure. Are they in any way *exceptional*? Nope.
(Donning flame proof suit!!)

Amen. I think that King Cycle Group object to internal headsets for
the same reason they stopped making headsets without their huge logo
anodized onto them-- hidden headsets interfere with the methods of
King's successful guerilla marketing campaign.

None for me, thanks. I'll have a tasteful, functional, value-conscious
headset without some registered trademark slathered all over it.

Chalo

Quoted message said:

That said, I'll add this point: IMO, the Chris King headsets are one of
the most blatantly over-hyped and over rated pieces on the market. Are
they good quality? Sure. Are they in any way *exceptional*? Nope.
(Donning flame proof suit!!)

It is said that a potential "startup" company falls into 3 categories.
"Candy", e.g. all sweet and nice but not essential, "Aspirin" - solves
a constant headache that won't go away otherwise, and "Cancer Cure" -
something you've gotta have or you're gonna die.

Chris King headsets are clearly candy. They only solve a headache
problem if you never maintain your headset. As "Candy" they are all
sweet and nicely colored, that's about it.

On the other hand, a vintage Carlton Flyer frame arrived at my house
yesterday, with a Chater-Lea bottom bracket shell. Phil Wood Bottom
Bracket retainers have just become - to me - a "Cancer cure" when I
think about part'ting up this bike.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

Donald Gillies said:

Quoted post said:

I have a Leader frame, an LD-715. I'm not sure if they still offer it
but I bought it one Christmas when they dropped their Ebay price to
$99. I had an early carbon fiber frame that I wanted to replace.
Anyhow, it has about 5000 miles on it now and I'm quite pleased with
it.

At $99, Chris King can complain all he wants about the non-durability
of integrated headsets. At $99, the frame becomes a throw-away item
compared to the outrageous cost of a Chris King headset.

The LD-715 frame I referred to in my earlier post did not have an
integrated headset. I wasn't aware that they now come with them.

Tom

Chalo said:

Quoted message said:

That said, I'll add this point: IMO, the Chris King headsets are one of
the most blatantly over-hyped and over rated pieces on the market. Are
they good quality? Sure. Are they in any way *exceptional*? Nope.
(Donning flame proof suit!!)

Amen. I think that King Cycle Group object to internal headsets for
the same reason they stopped making headsets without their huge logo
anodized onto them-- hidden headsets interfere with the methods of
King's successful guerilla marketing campaign.

None for me, thanks. I'll have a tasteful, functional, value-conscious
headset without some registered trademark slathered all over it.

Amen.

I always thought the CK headsets were an exceptional waste of money
(unless of course, money is no object for the customer). Still, I'd
use 'em when the customer requested. Then CK instituted some very
draconian marketing tactics requiring any builder who wanted to be
granted the pontifical blessing to use their products to fill out a
multi-page application, even if you were only going to buy the
occasional headset as part of a bike kit.

I told 'em to pound sand, and have been saving customers lots of money
supplying equally nice Cane Creek headsets. In fact, I think they're
superior since they don't require special tools to press in the
headset to prevent pressing "through" the bearings.

In the end, even inexpensive headsets can last many 10's of thousands
of miles, and they all do the same thing and weigh almost the same.
There are better ways to add $50-100 to your bike, IMHO.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Quoted message said:

There are better ways to add $50-100 to your bike, IMHO.

Like with a set of these?

http://www.hi-techbikes.com/ww2/cat/display.cgi?B-T-P_2004_Shift_Clamps&cf=hitech

Joseph

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There are better ways to add $50-100 to your bike, IMHO.

Like with a set of these?

http://www.hi-techbikes.com/ww2/cat/display.cgi?B-T-P_2004_Shift_Clamps&cf=hitech

Such a deal! "Save" 18gr for only $79. That's only $1990 per pound of
"saved weight"!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There are better ways to add $50-100 to your bike, IMHO.

Like with a set of these?

http://www.hi-techbikes.com/ww2/cat/display.cgi?B-T-P_2004_Shift_Clamps&cf=hitech

Such a deal! "Save" 18gr for only $79. That's only $1990 per pound of
"saved weight"!

Seems about twice the going price for "saved" weight. Take a Cervelo
Soloist Carbon with SRAM Force gruppo and some Zipp 202's. It will
weigh about 6.2kg (13.6lbs) with pedals. It'll cost about $7,700. If
you spec it with SRAM Rival it'll weigh about 6.5kg (14.3lbs) and cost
$7,100. About $860/lb.

Maybe if I win lotto twice.

Joseph

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

I'm building up a new bike, but I still don't have a frame! I'm looking
for something inexpensive, and so far these are the 2 that have caught
my eye:

http://tinyurl.com/ng37o

http://tinyurl.com/otjr6

I'm looking for cheap with and effective top-tube around 59cm, and a
headtube about 18-20cm for decent stack height.

Suggestions?

Joseph

I decided against both of them. For those keeping score at home, I
picked up a used 2003 Klein on eBay for $255 with fork and headset. My
major complaint with just about every bike I've ever used has been
bottom-bracket flex. A quality stout-tubed frame like a Klein sould be
just the ticket.

Joseph

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

I'm building up a new bike, but I still don't have a frame! I'm looking
for something inexpensive, and so far these are the 2 that have caught
my eye:

http://tinyurl.com/ng37o

http://tinyurl.com/otjr6

I'm looking for cheap with and effective top-tube around 59cm, and a
headtube about 18-20cm for decent stack height.

Suggestions?

Joseph

I decided against both of them. For those keeping score at home, I
picked up a used 2003 Klein on eBay for $255 with fork and headset. My
major complaint with just about every bike I've ever used has been
bottom-bracket flex. A quality stout-tubed frame like a Klein sould be
just the ticket.

You have chosen wisely.

Ron

RonSonic said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

I'm building up a new bike, but I still don't have a frame! I'm looking
for something inexpensive, and so far these are the 2 that have caught
my eye:

http://tinyurl.com/ng37o

http://tinyurl.com/otjr6

I'm looking for cheap with and effective top-tube around 59cm, and a
headtube about 18-20cm for decent stack height.

Suggestions?

Joseph

I decided against both of them. For those keeping score at home, I
picked up a used 2003 Klein on eBay for $255 with fork and headset. My
major complaint with just about every bike I've ever used has been
bottom-bracket flex. A quality stout-tubed frame like a Klein sould be
just the ticket.

You have chosen wisely.

Ron

It's a custom job with a long 61cm top-tube. That's 3.5cm longer than
my current bike, which is what got me thinking about the whole knee
bumping thing. I use a 13cm stem now, which is the longest I could get.
This top-tube will allow an even higher and farther out bar which may
be the solution to my occasionaly numb fingers. That's the plan at
least. I think part of my numb fingers problem is from an acute wrist
angle. A higher further bar will allow a straighter wrist.

The build up:

Centaur
HSCC custom 195mm crankset (contributes to knee-bump, but it's
proportional so it shouldn't be any worse than for an average sized
rider)
SLR Gel Flow
Easton Equipe EC90 carbon bar (gonna buy a Deda shallow drop Newton)
ITM Mantis stem (vanity requires a Deda stem then too!)
self-built 36 hole DT/Veloce/Ambrosio Excursion training wheels ("race"
wheels tbd)
Veloflex Pave tires

Can't wait!

Joseph

Chalo said:

Amen. I think that King Cycle Group object to internal headsets for
the same reason they stopped making headsets without their huge logo
anodized onto them-- hidden headsets interfere with th e methods of
King's successful guerilla marketing campaign.

None for me, thanks. I'll have a tasteful, functional, value-conscious
headset without some registered trademark slathered all over it.

On the other hand, if your last name is King, as it is for some people
I know, one of them might make quite a nice present.
d