Freewheel question

Scott said:

I've got an older Zipp disc that's threaded for a track cog on one
side, freewheel on the other. I'd like to be able to use it for road
TTs as well as on the track, so I'm curious if anyone's been able to
re-fit an older 8sp freewheel into either a 9 or 10 sp freewheel?

If so, how'd you do it?

thanks,

Scott

I'm pretty sure there are no 9sp freewheels. You can just run it as
8sp and get the bar-end shifters. You won't notice the missing 2 gears
in most cases on a TT bike.

Andrew F Martin said:

Scott said:

I've got an older Zipp disc that's threaded for a track cog on one
side, freewheel on the other. I'd like to be able to use it for road
TTs as well as on the track, so I'm curious if anyone's been able to
re-fit an older 8sp freewheel into either a 9 or 10 sp freewheel?

If so, how'd you do it?

thanks,

Scott

I'm pretty sure there are no 9sp freewheels. You can just run it as
8sp and get the bar-end shifters. You won't notice the missing 2 gears
in most cases on a TT bike.

Yea, I know... but I'd like to be able to just slap on a set of aero
bars, not completely re-rig the entire front end with barends,
different brake levers, probably different "tt specific" bars, etc.

I know that you can change out (replace) the cogs on a freewheel, and
with the Shimano Hyperglide freewheels using a splined system similar
to a freehub, I thought maybe someone had tried using thinner spacers
to allow for more cogs w/ close to, if not perfect, spacing for 9 or 10
sp. I'd even be perfectly happy w/ 8 cogs spaced to match a 10sp set
up, just so I wouldn't have to swap out the shifters.

I damn sure don't want to buy a new disc.

S.

Scott said:

I've got an older Zipp disc that's threaded for a track cog on one
side, freewheel on the other. I'd like to be able to use it for road
TTs as well as on the track, so I'm curious if anyone's been able to
re-fit an older 8sp freewheel into either a 9 or 10 sp freewheel?

If so, how'd you do it?

thanks,

Scott

No 9 or 10s freewheels and it may be that the disc is 7s only. Friction
shifters, and a FW is the only way you are going to make it work.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

No 9 or 10s freewheels and it may be that the disc is 7s only. Friction
shifters, and a FW is the only way you are going to make it work.

Couldn't he space 7 or 8 sprockets to the same cog spacing as a 9- or
10-speed system, and stll fit them on a 7-speed freewheel body? That
would allow him to reset the limit screw on his derailleur and still
get indexing. Am I missing something?

Chalo

"Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've got an older Zipp disc that's threaded for a track cog on one
side, freewheel on the other. I'd like to be able to use it for road
TTs as well as on the track, so I'm curious if anyone's been able to
re-fit an older 8sp freewheel into either a 9 or 10 sp freewheel?

If so, how'd you do it?

thanks,

Scott

Scott: there are no 9 or 10-speed freewheels. The Shimano 7-speed Sante,
Dura-Ace and newer HG37 freewheels feature a 2-step splined cog system that
may be modified for 9-speed Shimano spacing. That is, you could fit 8 cogs
spaced at 4.35mm cog center to center on to the 7-speed body. If you start
with the HG37, the smallest cog possible is a 14. Probably not what you
need. If you go with Dura-Ace/Sante, then you can to down to a 12.

Here is a fellow that modified an HG37 into a 8-speed freewheel, but with
8-speed (4.8mm cog) spacing:

http://bellsouthpwp.net/k/a/kaeru41/freewheels.htm

This work requires a couple of hours of machining, patience, accurate
measurement and the right tools. And a supply of compatible Hyperglide
freewheel cogs, which is not a trivial issue.

You'll probably want a Sunrace 13-24 freewheel (for the cogs and spacers -
compatible with some filing), and a Dura-Ace body and first 2 cogs to make
this happen.

Good luck.

Dave Mayer said:

"Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've got an older Zipp disc that's threaded for a track cog on one
side, freewheel on the other. I'd like to be able to use it for road
TTs as well as on the track, so I'm curious if anyone's been able to
re-fit an older 8sp freewheel into either a 9 or 10 sp freewheel?

If so, how'd you do it?

thanks,

Scott

Scott: there are no 9 or 10-speed freewheels. The Shimano 7-speed Sante,
Dura-Ace and newer HG37 freewheels feature a 2-step splined cog system that
may be modified for 9-speed Shimano spacing. That is, you could fit 8 cogs
spaced at 4.35mm cog center to center on to the 7-speed body. If you start
with the HG37, the smallest cog possible is a 14. Probably not what you
need. If you go with Dura-Ace/Sante, then you can to down to a 12.

Here is a fellow that modified an HG37 into a 8-speed freewheel, but with
8-speed (4.8mm cog) spacing:

http://bellsouthpwp.net/k/a/kaeru41/freewheels.htm

This work requires a couple of hours of machining, patience, accurate
measurement and the right tools. And a supply of compatible Hyperglide
freewheel cogs, which is not a trivial issue.

You'll probably want a Sunrace 13-24 freewheel (for the cogs and spacers -
compatible with some filing), and a Dura-Ace body and first 2 cogs to make
this happen.

Good luck.

Thanks for the info.

I already knew there are no commercially available 9 sp freewheels,
which is why I didn't ask where to buy one, but rather how to make one.
I wouldn't have thought this would be as complicated as it appears to
be. I think the barend shifter route is looking better and better.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I've got an older Zipp disc that's threaded for a track cog on one
side, freewheel on the other. I'd like to be able to use it for road
TTs as well as on the track, so I'm curious if anyone's been able to
re-fit an older 8sp freewheel into either a 9 or 10 sp freewheel?

Huh? I've never seen, or heard, of a 9 or 10 spd freewheel.
--------------
Alex

Alex Rodriguez said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I've got an older Zipp disc that's threaded for a track cog on one
side, freewheel on the other. I'd like to be able to use it for road
TTs as well as on the track, so I'm curious if anyone's been able to
re-fit an older 8sp freewheel into either a 9 or 10 sp freewheel?

Huh? I've never seen, or heard, of a 9 or 10 spd freewheel.
--------------
Alex

Neither have I. Thus the use of the term "re-fit", as in to modify an
8sp into a 9 or 10 sp setup.

S.

Scott said:

Dave Mayer said:

"Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Scott: there are no 9 or 10-speed freewheels. The Shimano 7-speed Sante,
Dura-Ace and newer HG37 freewheels feature a 2-step splined cog system that
may be modified for 9-speed Shimano spacing. That is, you could fit 8 cogs
spaced at 4.35mm cog center to center on to the 7-speed body. If you start
with the HG37, the smallest cog possible is a 14. Probably not what you
need. If you go with Dura-Ace/Sante, then you can to down to a 12.

Here is a fellow that modified an HG37 into a 8-speed freewheel, but with
8-speed (4.8mm cog) spacing:

http://bellsouthpwp.net/k/a/kaeru41/freewheels.htm

This work requires a couple of hours of machining, patience, accurate
measurement and the right tools. And a supply of compatible Hyperglide
freewheel cogs, which is not a trivial issue.

You'll probably want a Sunrace 13-24 freewheel (for the cogs and spacers -
compatible with some filing), and a Dura-Ace body and first 2 cogs to make
this happen.

Quoted message said:

I already knew there are no commercially available 9 sp freewheels,
which is why I didn't ask where to buy one, but rather how to make one.
I wouldn't have thought this would be as complicated as it appears to
be. I think the barend shifter route is looking better and better.

The page Dave linked to is even more complicated than you need,
because the author was making an 8 cog HG freewheel with
8 speed spacing (4.8mm). That is about 4mm wider than a 7 speed
freewheel, so it doesn't fit on a 7sp freewheel body.

You could try making an 8 cog freewheel with 9 speed spacing (4.35mm).
This ought to fit on a 7sp freewheel body. You could use a DA 7sp
freewheel and the uniglide DA/600 cogs that fit it. But you'd have to
make the new thinner spacers somehow - cassette spacers won't fit on
a freewheel body.

Barend shifters are probably a reasonable alternative. With quick
disconnects on the cables, you might be able to switch handlebars
without too much hassle.

Or - now here's visionary thinking - downgrade to 8 speed STI shifters.
8 speed STI will shift both 8 and 7 speed, so you can use a regular 8sp
wheel or your disc with a 7sp freewheel.

Quoted message said:

Scott said:

Dave Mayer said:

"Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Scott: there are no 9 or 10-speed freewheels. The Shimano 7-speed Sante,
Dura-Ace and newer HG37 freewheels feature a 2-step splined cog system that
may be modified for 9-speed Shimano spacing. That is, you could fit 8 cogs
spaced at 4.35mm cog center to center on to the 7-speed body. If you start
with the HG37, the smallest cog possible is a 14. Probably not what you
need. If you go with Dura-Ace/Sante, then you can to down to a 12.

Here is a fellow that modified an HG37 into a 8-speed freewheel, but with
8-speed (4.8mm cog) spacing:

http://bellsouthpwp.net/k/a/kaeru41/freewheels.htm

This work requires a couple of hours of machining, patience, accurate
measurement and the right tools. And a supply of compatible Hyperglide
freewheel cogs, which is not a trivial issue.

You'll probably want a Sunrace 13-24 freewheel (for the cogs and spacers -
compatible with some filing), and a Dura-Ace body and first 2 cogs to make
this happen.

Quoted message said:

I already knew there are no commercially available 9 sp freewheels,
which is why I didn't ask where to buy one, but rather how to make one.
I wouldn't have thought this would be as complicated as it appears to
be. I think the barend shifter route is looking better and better.

The page Dave linked to is even more complicated than you need,
because the author was making an 8 cog HG freewheel with
8 speed spacing (4.8mm). That is about 4mm wider than a 7 speed
freewheel, so it doesn't fit on a 7sp freewheel body.

You could try making an 8 cog freewheel with 9 speed spacing (4.35mm).
This ought to fit on a 7sp freewheel body. You could use a DA 7sp
freewheel and the uniglide DA/600 cogs that fit it. But you'd have to
make the new thinner spacers somehow - cassette spacers won't fit on
a freewheel body.

Barend shifters are probably a reasonable alternative. With quick
disconnects on the cables, you might be able to switch handlebars
without too much hassle.

Or - now here's visionary thinking - downgrade to 8 speed STI shifters.
8 speed STI will shift both 8 and 7 speed, so you can use a regular 8sp
wheel or your disc with a 7sp freewheel.

Now, THAT is visionary. One downside, you can never use someone else's
wheels at a race. On the upside, no one will ever take your wheel out
of the wheel pit.

Scott said:

[email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Or - now here's visionary thinking - downgrade to 8 speed STI shifters.
8 speed STI will shift both 8 and 7 speed, so you can use a regular 8sp
wheel or your disc with a 7sp freewheel.

Now, THAT is visionary. One downside, you can never use someone else's
wheels at a race. On the upside, no one will ever take your wheel out
of the wheel pit.

As I keep telling Greg White on RBR, there's a fine line between
visionary and crackpot, and sometimes there isn't any line at all.

Here's another wacky idea. Use 9 speed STI shifters. If you use
a 9 speed rear derailleur, you can shift 9 speed. If you swap that out
for an early (8s or earlier) Dura-Ace rear derailleur, the der moves
a bit farther for a given cable pull, and it will index on 8 speed
spacing, which is so close to 7s that it should index on your
7s disc wheel.

Sheldon's DA web page, <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html>
suggests that rather than swapping in the 8s DA RD, you could
change the cable routing on the existing RD, although I don't know
if that will really shift cleanly on a 7s freewheel. I know 8s
shifters do shift a 7s freewheel, but adding one bastardization
to another might be too much. However, if you have 9s now, this
hack doesn't even require any new parts to try it out.

Obviously swapping an RD or cable is a nuisance since you have
to readjust the indexing, but it could work if you only intend to use
it for an occasional TT. It's less work than swapping the bars and
shifters, certainly.

Quoted message said:

Scott said:

[email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Or - now here's visionary thinking - downgrade to 8 speed STI shifters.
8 speed STI will shift both 8 and 7 speed, so you can use a regular 8sp
wheel or your disc with a 7sp freewheel.

Now, THAT is visionary. One downside, you can never use someone else's
wheels at a race. On the upside, no one will ever take your wheel out
of the wheel pit.

As I keep telling Greg White on RBR, there's a fine line between
visionary and crackpot, and sometimes there isn't any line at all.

Here's another wacky idea. Use 9 speed STI shifters. If you use
a 9 speed rear derailleur, you can shift 9 speed. If you swap that out
for an early (8s or earlier) Dura-Ace rear derailleur, the der moves
a bit farther for a given cable pull, and it will index on 8 speed
spacing, which is so close to 7s that it should index on your
7s disc wheel.

Sheldon's DA web page, <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html>
suggests that rather than swapping in the 8s DA RD, you could
change the cable routing on the existing RD, although I don't know
if that will really shift cleanly on a 7s freewheel. I know 8s
shifters do shift a 7s freewheel, but adding one bastardization
to another might be too much. However, if you have 9s now, this
hack doesn't even require any new parts to try it out.

Obviously swapping an RD or cable is a nuisance since you have
to readjust the indexing, but it could work if you only intend to use
it for an occasional TT. It's less work than swapping the bars and
shifters, certainly.

Again, not a particularly useful suggestion. The whole point to my
question about re-fitting a freewheel was to NOT have to change
anything else. I don't want to mess with changing bars, or shifters,
or brake levers, or whatever. I was hoping that will a little
ingenuity I could change out the spacers on a freewheel so that the
cogs were spaced closely enough to 10 sp spacing, even if there weren't
10 cogs, so that I could use my bike, as it's currently set up w/ 10 sp
shifters, without any other modifications.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Alex Rodriguez said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I've got an older Zipp disc that's threaded for a track cog on one
side, freewheel on the other. I'd like to be able to use it for road
TTs as well as on the track, so I'm curious if anyone's been able to
re-fit an older 8sp freewheel into either a 9 or 10 sp freewheel?

Huh? I've never seen, or heard, of a 9 or 10 spd freewheel.
--------------
Alex

Neither have I. Thus the use of the term "re-fit", as in to modify an
8sp into a 9 or 10 sp setup.

Ok. I now see what you mean. Interesting idea.
---------------
Alex

Scott said:

[email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Here's another wacky idea.

Again, not a particularly useful suggestion. The whole point to my
question about re-fitting a freewheel was to NOT have to change
anything else. I don't want to mess with changing bars, or shifters,
or brake levers, or whatever. I was hoping that will a little
ingenuity I could change out the spacers on a freewheel so that the
cogs were spaced closely enough to 10 sp spacing, even if there weren't
10 cogs, so that I could use my bike, as it's currently set up w/ 10 sp
shifters, without any other modifications.

Dude, it's Usenet - you're lucky we're still on topic, let alone
giving you useless suggestions. Anyway, I already tried to give
you a real answer. You could probably do this, I think it will be
easiest if you start with a Shimano DA/Sante/600 7sp Uniglide
freewheel - or a Sachs 7 or 8sp freewheel. With these you should
be able to find cogs appropriate for a TT wheel. (Newer Shimano
HG freewheels are harder to get the cogs off and will have too
many big cogs for a TT wheel). Then you need thinner spacers,
but you're going to have to make those yourself. Cassette spacers
won't fit. Measure the cog thickness and figure out how thin the
spacers have to be to reach 9s or 10s spacing, probably a bit over 2mm.
A machinist could make them (expensive), or maybe you could build
them up out of brass shim stock (cheap). You can probably get 8
cogs onto a 7s freewheel this way. The last cog with the built in
spacer may have to be filed down.

Quoted message said:

Dude, it's Usenet - you're lucky we're still on topic, let alone
giving you useless suggestions.

I know, I know. I thought about that before I even posted the question
AND should've known better.

At least we didn't digress into a religious debate, helmet debate, or
helmet debate w/ religious zeal!

"Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I've got an older Zipp disc that's threaded for a track cog on one
side, freewheel on the other. I'd like to be able to use it for road
TTs as well as on the track, so I'm curious if anyone's been able to
re-fit an older 8sp freewheel into either a 9 or 10 sp freewheel?

If so, how'd you do it?

thanks,

Scott

I have made a 8 speed freewheel with 9 speed spacing form a standard
Shimano 7 speed freewheel. By replacing the lockring with a threaded cog
from a 6 speed uniglide cassette and making new spacers from a sheet of
2.5 mm plexiglass.
With a cog at 1.85 and a spacer at 2.5 you get a cogspacing at 4.35.
I also had to grind down the teeth's on the threaded cog since they where
higher than the teeth's on the hyperglide cog.

Jacob Stang

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Scott said:

Quoted message said:

Dude, it's Usenet - you're lucky we're still on topic, let alone
giving you useless suggestions.

I know, I know. I thought about that before I even posted the question
AND should've known better.

At least we didn't digress into a religious debate, helmet debate, or
helmet debate w/ religious zeal!

The night is young.

--
Michael Press

Jacob Stang said:

"Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I've got an older Zipp disc that's threaded for a track cog on one
side, freewheel on the other. I'd like to be able to use it for road
TTs as well as on the track, so I'm curious if anyone's been able to
re-fit an older 8sp freewheel into either a 9 or 10 sp freewheel?

If so, how'd you do it?

thanks,

Scott

I have made a 8 speed freewheel with 9 speed spacing form a standard
Shimano 7 speed freewheel. By replacing the lockring with a threaded cog
from a 6 speed uniglide cassette and making new spacers from a sheet of
2.5 mm plexiglass.
With a cog at 1.85 and a spacer at 2.5 you get a cogspacing at 4.35.
I also had to grind down the teeth's on the threaded cog since they where
higher than the teeth's on the hyperglide cog.

Jacob Stang

Jacob,

THANKS... I knew someone out there had to have figured out a way to
make something like this work. Now, if only there was enough demand
for it, Wheels Manufacturing would make a conversion kit.

Scott said:

I've got an older Zipp disc that's threaded for a track cog on one
side, freewheel on the other. I'd like to be able to use it for road
TTs as well as on the track, so I'm curious if anyone's been able to
re-fit an older 8sp freewheel into either a 9 or 10 sp freewheel?

If so, how'd you do it?

thanks,

Scott

Hello???? (knocking on inside of monitor) Sorry to intrude, but you
all seem to be missing something....if the hub is threaded for a track
cog on one side, and for a SINGLE SPEED freewheel on the other, then
the wheel is dished symetrically. Unless you have a novel method of
changing the disc dish, you are sorta stuck with a single speed wheel.

//jtd//