freewheel removal +

[cotterlesscrank]

I've been trying to remove the Shimano 7spd freewheel on my beater in order
to replace three broken spokes on the drive side. I've got the Park FR-1
tool, tried everything to get the damned thing off, including using a box
wrench and whacking on the handle with a mallet as suggested on Sheldon
Brown's website, to no avail. I don't think the freewheel's coming off.

It's a cheap wheel (32h Weinmann rim, Sovos hub), on a beat-to-death beer
getter, so I'm thinking, I'll just ride the thing with the three missing
spokes until, well, something else happens. At the risk of sounding like
the Stupid Post of the Day, can a 32h rear wheel with 3 missing spokes be
ridden safely? I only need it to go around a few blocks and back, and I'm
not a heavy person. Has anyone kept riding a bike with missing spokes
because you couldn't replace them for one reason or other?

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> I've been trying to remove the Shimano 7spd freewheel on my beater in
> order to replace three broken spokes on the drive side. I've got the Park
> FR-1 tool, tried everything to get the damned thing off, including using a
> box wrench and whacking on the handle with a mallet as suggested on
> Sheldon Brown's website, to no avail. I don't think the freewheel's
> coming off.

Make sure the freewheel tool is securely attached to the freewheel (using
the quick release or axle nut) and then mount the tool into a well-secured
vise and turn the wheel. This allows you to get a much better grip, and if
absolutely required, you can use two people. With three broken spokes, there
may be a limit to how much force can be applied with risking turning the
wheel into a potato chip.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"cotterlesscrank" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've been trying to remove the Shimano 7spd freewheel on my beater in
> order to replace three broken spokes on the drive side. I've got the Park
> FR-1 tool, tried everything to get the damned thing off, including using a
> box wrench and whacking on the handle with a mallet as suggested on
> Sheldon Brown's website, to no avail. I don't think the freewheel's
> coming off.
>
> It's a cheap wheel (32h Weinmann rim, Sovos hub), on a beat-to-death beer
> getter, so I'm thinking, I'll just ride the thing with the three missing
> spokes until, well, something else happens. At the risk of sounding like
> the Stupid Post of the Day, can a 32h rear wheel with 3 missing spokes be
> ridden safely? I only need it to go around a few blocks and back, and I'm
> not a heavy person. Has anyone kept riding a bike with missing spokes
> because you couldn't replace them for one reason or other?
>

 

[[email protected]]

cotterlesscrank wrote:
> I've been trying to remove the Shimano 7spd freewheel on my beater in order
> to replace three broken spokes on the drive side. I've got the Park FR-1
> tool, tried everything to get the damned thing off, including using a box
> wrench and whacking on the handle with a mallet as suggested on Sheldon
> Brown's website, to no avail. I don't think the freewheel's coming off.

Get a piece of pipe, as long as necessary, and put it on the wrench.
Get someone to hold the wheel vertically on the ground by the rim so
they can get good counter-torque on the hub, and then push down on the
pipe. I think the freewheel will come off.

I don't see how hitting it with a mallet will work. I think it would
wind up the spokes and just bounce off. A cheater bar will wind up the
spokes as far as they will go and then get the torque onto the
freewheel.

 

[Sir Ridesalot]

cotterlesscrank wrote:
> I've been trying to remove the Shimano 7spd freewheel on my beater in order
> to replace three broken spokes on the drive side. I've got the Park FR-1
> tool, tried everything to get the damned thing off, including using a box
> wrench and whacking on the handle with a mallet as suggested on Sheldon
> Brown's website, to no avail. I don't think the freewheel's coming off.
>
> It's a cheap wheel (32h Weinmann rim, Sovos hub), on a beat-to-death beer
> getter, so I'm thinking, I'll just ride the thing with the three missing
> spokes until, well, something else happens. At the risk of sounding like
> the Stupid Post of the Day, can a 32h rear wheel with 3 missing spokes be
> ridden safely? I only need it to go around a few blocks and back, and I'm
> not a heavy person. Has anyone kept riding a bike with missing spokes
> because you couldn't replace them for one reason or other?

Hi there. You *ARE" trying to turn the freewheel *COUNTER-CLOCKWISE*
aren't you?

As far as riding the wheel with three broken spokes, well you will
eventually break more spokes. Your wheel might have a sudden collapse
even with three broken spokes. Three of sixteen spokes are already
broken. That's nearly 20% of the drive side support gone already.

If you can't get the freewheel off try getting your local bike shop to
do it for you. It should cost only a few dollars.

Good luck.

Peter

 

[* * Chas]

"cotterlesscrank" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've been trying to remove the Shimano 7spd freewheel on my beater in
order
> to replace three broken spokes on the drive side. I've got the Park
FR-1
> tool, tried everything to get the damned thing off, including using a
box
> wrench and whacking on the handle with a mallet as suggested on
Sheldon
> Brown's website, to no avail. I don't think the freewheel's coming
off.
>
> It's a cheap wheel (32h Weinmann rim, Sovos hub), on a beat-to-death
beer
> getter, so I'm thinking, I'll just ride the thing with the three
missing
> spokes until, well, something else happens. At the risk of sounding
like
> the Stupid Post of the Day, can a 32h rear wheel with 3 missing spokes
be
> ridden safely? I only need it to go around a few blocks and back, and
I'm
> not a heavy person. Has anyone kept riding a bike with missing spokes
> because you couldn't replace them for one reason or other?
>
>

Are you sure that you have a freewheel not a freehub?

Check out this site if in doubt:

http://sheldonbrown.com/freewheels.html

Chas.

 

[Werehatrack]

On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 00:43:54 GMT, "cotterlesscrank"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I've been trying to remove the Shimano 7spd freewheel on my beater in order
>to replace three broken spokes on the drive side. I've got the Park FR-1
>tool, tried everything to get the damned thing off, including using a box
>wrench and whacking on the handle with a mallet as suggested on Sheldon
>Brown's website, to no avail. I don't think the freewheel's coming off.

If you have access to a bench vise, clamp the tool in that and rotate
the rim with both hands. Alternately, take the wheel and the tool to
the nearest auto repair shop and ask them to spin it loose with their
impact wrench. It'll come off.

>It's a cheap wheel (32h Weinmann rim, Sovos hub), on a beat-to-death beer
>getter, so I'm thinking, I'll just ride the thing with the three missing
>spokes until, well, something else happens. At the risk of sounding like
>the Stupid Post of the Day, can a 32h rear wheel with 3 missing spokes be
>ridden safely? I only need it to go around a few blocks and back, and I'm
>not a heavy person. Has anyone kept riding a bike with missing spokes
>because you couldn't replace them for one reason or other?

I've seen bikes ridden with four or five missing on a 36-spoke wheel,
but not all on one side, and not without appreciable wobble in the
wheel. I wouldn't do it, myself.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

 

[David L. Johnson]

On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 07:04:43 +0000, Werehatrack wrote:

> If you have access to a bench vise, clamp the tool in that and rotate
> the rim with both hands.

If you don't have a vice, get one. They are pretty cheap and very useful.


Alternately, take the wheel and the tool to
> the nearest auto repair shop and ask them to spin it loose with their
> impact wrench. It'll come off.

Bad idea. They could not hold the tool against the freewheel without the
quick-release in place, and with an impact wrench they'd loosen the
freewheel too much if the Q/R is there, and break something. It might
work with a splined freewheel/tool, if the tool fits well, but a notched
freewheel and tool will just get chewed up.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | What is objectionable, and what is dangerous about extremists is
_`\(,_ | not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant.
(_)/ (_) | --Robert F. Kennedy

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

cotterlesscrank wrote:
> I've been trying to remove the Shimano 7spd freewheel on my beater in order
> to replace three broken spokes on the drive side. I've got the Park FR-1
> tool, tried everything to get the damned thing off, including using a box
> wrench and whacking on the handle with a mallet as suggested on Sheldon
> Brown's website, to no avail. I don't think the freewheel's coming off.
>
> It's a cheap wheel (32h Weinmann rim, Sovos hub), on a beat-to-death beer
> getter, so I'm thinking, I'll just ride the thing with the three missing
> spokes until, well, something else happens. At the risk of sounding like
> the Stupid Post of the Day, can a 32h rear wheel with 3 missing spokes be
> ridden safely? I only need it to go around a few blocks and back, and I'm
> not a heavy person. Has anyone kept riding a bike with missing spokes
> because you couldn't replace them for one reason or other?

Just another recommendation for the method posted by Mike J. If that
freewheel can be removed (without damaging the wounded wheel), that
method will remove it.

 

[Bill Sornson]

David L. Johnson wrote:

> If you don't have a vice, get one.

Words by which to live! LOL

Bill "yeah, slow morning" S.

 

[Sheldon Brown]

cotterlesscrank wrote:

> > I've been trying to remove the Shimano 7spd freewheel on my beater in order
> > to replace three broken spokes on the drive side. I've got the Park FR-1
> > tool, tried everything to get the damned thing off, including using a box
> > wrench and whacking on the handle with a mallet as suggested on Sheldon
> > Brown's website, to no avail. I don't think the freewheel's coming off.

[email protected] wrote:

> Get a piece of pipe, as long as necessary, and put it on the wrench.
> Get someone to hold the wheel vertically on the ground by the rim so
> they can get good counter-torque on the hub, and then push down on the
> pipe. I think the freewheel will come off.

Using a pipe and cheater bar like this won't allow any more torque to
the tool than the usual technique of using a good bench vise.

The problem is getting enough torque on the wheel/hub, and the pipe
doesn't help with this.

> I don't see how hitting it with a mallet will work.

The fact is that it _does_ work! The impact can generate a greater
instantaneous torque than you can supply with a steady twist. This is
the same principle used in impact wrenches for automotive work.

This is not based on armchair theorizing. I've used this technique
many times on recalcitrant freewheels that wouldn't respond to the
usual bench vise approach.

Sheldon "Empiricist" Brown
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
| If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough! |
| --BOB Simon |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[John Henderson]

cotterlesscrank wrote:

> Has anyone kept riding a bike with missing spokes because you
> couldn't replace them for one reason or other?

On long remote tours with a heavily-laden bike, I've left things
until 5 of 36 spokes (all on the drive side rear) were broken
before I replaced the broken ones. Whilst I was carrying spare
spokes and freewheel tool, getting access to tools to provide
necessary leverage was the problem.

John

 

[[email protected]]

Sheldon Brown wrote:
> cotterlesscrank wrote:
>
> > > I've been trying to remove the Shimano 7spd freewheel on my beater in order
> > > to replace three broken spokes on the drive side. I've got the Park FR-1
> > > tool, tried everything to get the damned thing off, including using a box
> > > wrench and whacking on the handle with a mallet as suggested on Sheldon
> > > Brown's website, to no avail. I don't think the freewheel's coming off.
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > Get a piece of pipe, as long as necessary, and put it on the wrench.
> > Get someone to hold the wheel vertically on the ground by the rim so
> > they can get good counter-torque on the hub, and then push down on the
> > pipe. I think the freewheel will come off.
>
> Using a pipe and cheater bar like this won't allow any more torque to
> the tool than the usual technique of using a good bench vise.

True, possibly, if you have a good bench vise. However, the bench vise
method is limited by the amount of torque you can apply through wheel
through the rim. It MIGHT be possible that someone counteracting the
force of the cheater bar by holding the wheel vertically against the
ground could apply MORE torque to the rim than someone grabbing the rim
and twisting it above the vice.

> The problem is getting enough torque on the wheel/hub, and the pipe
> doesn't help with this.

Yes it does, but you DO need a way to hold the wheel. A second person
holding the wheel by the rim vertically against the ground gets
leverage against the hub.

> > I don't see how hitting it with a mallet will work.
>
> The fact is that it _does_ work! The impact can generate a greater
> instantaneous torque than you can supply with a steady twist.

That doesn't mean that the torque is guaranteed to be transmitted to
the freewheel threads, though. Furthermore, your comment indicates that
instantaneous torque in excess of what can be counteracted by holding
the rim can be useful. It that's true, then torque transmitted by a
longer cheater bar can also be useful. Finally, the fact that it does
work on some freewheels does not in any way prove that it would work
better than a cheater bar and a helper holding the wheel.

> This is
> the same principle used in impact wrenches for automotive work.

Maybe he should use an impact wrench.

> This is not based on armchair theorizing. I've used this technique
> many times on recalcitrant freewheels that wouldn't respond to the
> usual bench vise approach.

You're the one who talked about how much trouble you had getting
freewheels off in your defense of cassettes, and it didn't work for the
OP.

 

[[email protected]]

On 1 Nov 2006 10:43:04 -0800, "Sheldon Brown"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>cotterlesscrank wrote:
>
>> > I've been trying to remove the Shimano 7spd freewheel on my beater in order
>> > to replace three broken spokes on the drive side. I've got the Park FR-1
>> > tool, tried everything to get the damned thing off, including using a box
>> > wrench and whacking on the handle with a mallet as suggested on Sheldon
>> > Brown's website, to no avail. I don't think the freewheel's coming off.
>
>[email protected] wrote:
>
>> Get a piece of pipe, as long as necessary, and put it on the wrench.
>> Get someone to hold the wheel vertically on the ground by the rim so
>> they can get good counter-torque on the hub, and then push down on the
>> pipe. I think the freewheel will come off.
>
>Using a pipe and cheater bar like this won't allow any more torque to
>the tool than the usual technique of using a good bench vise.
>
>The problem is getting enough torque on the wheel/hub, and the pipe
>doesn't help with this.
>
>> I don't see how hitting it with a mallet will work.
>
>The fact is that it _does_ work! The impact can generate a greater
>instantaneous torque than you can supply with a steady twist. This is
>the same principle used in impact wrenches for automotive work.
>
>This is not based on armchair theorizing. I've used this technique
>many times on recalcitrant freewheels that wouldn't respond to the
>usual bench vise approach.
>
>Sheldon "Empiricist" Brown
>+-------------------------------------------------------------+
>| If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough! |
>| --BOB Simon |
>+-------------------------------------------------------------+
>Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
> Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
> http://harriscyclery.com
> Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
>http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Dear Sheldon,

For anyone with an air compressor, a pneumatic impact wrench is a
cheap and useful tool for buzzing stubborn nuts and bolts:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93296

Most motorcycle mechanics keep a manual impact wrench handy for
stubborn case screws:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=46978

When you whomp a manual impact wrench with a hammer, the linear
impulse is converted to a rotary impulse. The impact also seats the
bit firmly in the screw.

For those unfamiliar with impact wrenches, here's the physics:

An impact wrench works by making use of the concept of "impulse".
Ordinarily we view Newton's 2nd Law as F = m*a. But acceleration is
equal to the change in velocity divided by the change in time a =
dv/dt. If this is substituted into the 2nd law: F = m*dv/dt.
In an impact wrench the wrench socket is given a substantial initial
velocity. When the socket contacts the nut, the socket is suddenly
brought to rest, thus undergoing a rapid acceleration dv/dt. If the
time of the impact is very small, the resulting acceleration will be
VERY large and the resulting force will likewise be very large. The
point is for this impact to move or break free the nut through this
very large "impulse".

http://experts.about.com/q/Physics-1358/Impact-Wrench.htm

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[Werehatrack]

On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 08:53:09 -0600, "David L. Johnson"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 07:04:43 +0000, Werehatrack wrote:
>
>> If you have access to a bench vise, clamp the tool in that and rotate
>> the rim with both hands.
>
>If you don't have a vice, get one. They are pretty cheap and very useful.
>
>
> Alternately, take the wheel and the tool to
>> the nearest auto repair shop and ask them to spin it loose with their
>> impact wrench. It'll come off.
>
>Bad idea. They could not hold the tool against the freewheel without the
>quick-release in place, and with an impact wrench they'd loosen the
>freewheel too much if the Q/R is there, and break something. It might
>work with a splined freewheel/tool, if the tool fits well, but a notched
>freewheel and tool will just get chewed up.

Two words: Shallow socket. (Alternately, the mechanic's other friend
in such a situation, an ad-hoc spacer inside the socket, will keep the
tool from submerging. I used to have to do this frequently enough
with certain automotive specialty tools.)
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

 

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

David L. Johnson wrote:
> ...
> If you don't have a vice, get one....

I have a vice - being a smartass on Usenet.

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.
I am supporting cannibalism by eating more nuts.

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
> David L. Johnson wrote:
> > ...
> > If you don't have a vice, get one....
>
> I have a vice - being a smartass on Usenet.
>

You a smartass? Second part , yes. First part, not even close..

 

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
> > David L. Johnson wrote:
> > > ...
> > > If you don't have a vice, get one....
> >
> > I have a vice - being a smartass on Usenet.
> >
>
> You a smartass? Second part , yes. First part, not even close..

At least I am not bitter over someone else's website being cited.

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

 

[Donald Gillies]

It's times like this that I get down on my knees and thank the lord
for my 15 inch 12-lb asian-made $10 crescent wrench ...

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

 

[Jasper Janssen]

On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 07:04:43 GMT, Werehatrack <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I've seen bikes ridden with four or five missing on a 36-spoke wheel,
>but not all on one side, and not without appreciable wobble in the
>wheel. I wouldn't do it, myself.

I've done it, but any more than three spokes is highly noticeable. You can
forget about rim braking at that point.

Jasper

 

[Ted P.]

Sheldon Brown wrote:
> cotterlesscrank wrote:
>
>>> I've been trying to remove the Shimano 7spd freewheel on my beater in order
>>> to replace three broken spokes on the drive side. I've got the Park FR-1
>>> tool, tried everything to get the damned thing off, including using a box
>>> wrench and whacking on the handle with a mallet as suggested on Sheldon
>>> Brown's website, to no avail. I don't think the freewheel's coming off.
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Get a piece of pipe, as long as necessary, and put it on the wrench.
>> Get someone to hold the wheel vertically on the ground by the rim so
>> they can get good counter-torque on the hub, and then push down on the
>> pipe. I think the freewheel will come off.
>
> Using a pipe and cheater bar like this won't allow any more torque to
> the tool than the usual technique of using a good bench vise.
>
> The problem is getting enough torque on the wheel/hub, and the pipe
> doesn't help with this.
>
>> I don't see how hitting it with a mallet will work.
>
> The fact is that it _does_ work! The impact can generate a greater
> instantaneous torque than you can supply with a steady twist. This is
> the same principle used in impact wrenches for automotive work.
>
> This is not based on armchair theorizing. I've used this technique
> many times on recalcitrant freewheels that wouldn't respond to the
> usual bench vise approach.
>
> Sheldon "Empiricist" Brown
> +-------------------------------------------------------------+
> | If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough! |
> | --BOB Simon |
> +-------------------------------------------------------------+
> Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
> Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
> http://harriscyclery.com
> Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
> http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
>
Sheldon
This does work. It might take more than one or two taps (same principle
a good machinist uses to free frozen nuts). I. Newton would do it if he
had a freewheel he wanted to get off.
Regards

--

Ted "Inertia" Polk
Don't forget to take out the trash