Gallbladder surgery

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark Probert-February 27, 2004" <Mark [email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark Probert-February 26, 2004" <Mark

[email hidden]>

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Quoted message said:

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wrote in message

"]news:[email hidden]...

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>
> "Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
> >
> > "Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > "]news:[email hidden]...
> > >
> > > "Coleah" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:O3w%b.419678$na.809238@attbi_s04...
> > > >
> > > > "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040226184313.10061.00000517@mb-
> > > > m17.aol.com...
> > > > > You should know this about Rich Shewmaker.
> > > > >
> > > > > He posted: I believe that God does not exist. And I believe that all
> alternative
> > > > medicine
> > > > > is quackery. And I believe that these are both reasonable
> assumptions
> > > > until I
> > > > > am proven wrong.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This Rich fellow is entitled to his beliefs and assumptions,

of

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> course.
> > > > No one is obligated to 'prove' anything differently to him.
> > > >
> > > > If he is over 18, he surely understands that other people also are entitled to be
> > > > honored for their own beliefs and

reasonable

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> > > > assumptions, and he is not required to prove anything to them either.
> > >
> > > I do not hold others "obligated" to prove or disprove, but I do
reserve
> > the
> > > right to point out error when people post statements that

contradict

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our
> > > current scientific body of knowledge. Assertions that olive oil

and

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> citrus
> > > juice can flush stones from the gallbladder or that ginseng
"strengthens
> > the
> > > immune system" will be challenged, because these things are

known

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to

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be
> > > untrue. And no, I do not think anyone is entitled to be

"honored"

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for

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> > > believing such nonsense.
> > >
> > > --Rich
> >
> >
> > Prove it wrong then .
>
> Proponents of the flushes are required to show that the gall bladder

has

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> fewer stones after a flush. In another post you claim that your

doctor

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> recommended them. Did you have their existence determined by

pre-flush

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> ultrasound and did a post-flush ultrasound show that they were gone?

If

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> not,they you really do not know if the flush was effective in

eliminating

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> them.

I have already stated my experience and the experience of others I

know

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personaly . Don't try and twist it around to me having to prove

anything

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to

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you , you are the one who is telling me it doesn't work when from

personal

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experience I know it does , so you prove your arguement .

Sorry, sweetums, but your personal experience proves NOTHING unless you

can

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show that there were stones prior to the flush, and there were no stones after the flush. The
only way to do this, absent surgery, is to use ultrasound.

As for twisting around, the usenet standard, execept in AltWorld is to

have

Quoted message said:

the propenent of some point, etc. provide the proof.

Thus, either prove it..or....your claims are worth what a flush

produces....

::: Exactly my point sweetums , you prove to me that it didn't work ,
otherwise your claims have the value of a needlessly removed gallbladder .

Thank you for your non-answer which provides proof that you have no proof that it actually removed
gall stones.

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark Probert-February 26, 2004" <Mark [email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
>
> "Coleah" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:O3w%b.419678$na.809238@attbi_s04...
> >
> > "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040226184313.10061.00000517@mb-
> > m17.aol.com...
> > > You should know this about Rich Shewmaker.
> > >
> > > He posted: I believe that God does not exist. And I believe that all

alternative

Quoted message said:

> > medicine
> > > is quackery. And I believe that these are both reasonable

assumptions

Quoted message said:

> > until I
> > > am proven wrong.
> >
> >
> > This Rich fellow is entitled to his beliefs and assumptions, of

course.

Quoted message said:

> > No one is obligated to 'prove' anything differently to him.
> >
> > If he is over 18, he surely understands that other people also are entitled to be honored
> > for their own beliefs and reasonable assumptions, and he is not required to prove anything
> > to them either.
>
> I do not hold others "obligated" to prove or disprove, but I do

reserve

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the
> right to point out error when people post statements that contradict

our

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> current scientific body of knowledge. Assertions that olive oil and

citrus

Quoted message said:

> juice can flush stones from the gallbladder or that ginseng

"strengthens

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the
> immune system" will be challenged, because these things are known to

be

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> untrue. And no, I do not think anyone is entitled to be "honored"

for

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Quoted message said:

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> believing such nonsense.
>
> --Rich

Prove it wrong then .

Proponents of the flushes are required to show that the gall bladder has fewer stones after a
flush. In another post you claim that your doctor recommended them. Did you have their existence
determined by pre-flush ultrasound and did a post-flush ultrasound show that they were gone? If
not,they you really do not know if the flush was effective in

eliminating

Quoted message said:

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them.

I have already stated my experience and the experience of others I know personaly . Don't try and
twist it around to me having to prove anything

to

Quoted message said:

you , you are the one who is telling me it doesn't work when from personal experience I know it
does , so you prove your arguement .

No, you have NOT stated your experience. You claim that your gallbladder flushes "worked," but you
have not told us what led you to believe that you had gallstones in the first place, what
experiences caused you to conclude that the flushes "worked," and whether any objective studies have
shown you to be free of gallstones now.

Did your doctor base his diagnosis of gallstones on an ultrasound study or on computerized axial
tomography? If not, it's time to change doctors. The causes of epigastric pain are far too variable
for gallstones to be diagnosed clinically. Besides, if you present with the symptoms of gallbladder
disease, an ultrasound study is indicated as "standard of care," to rule out even more serious
disorders such as pancreatic or liver cancer. To do less is malpractice.

Your demand that I "prove my argument" that your gallbladder flushes did not remove any gallstones
is silly. I have no reason to believe that you ever had gallstones.

--Rich

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark Probert-February 26, 2004" <Mark [email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
>
> "Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> "]news:[email hidden]...
> >
> > "Coleah" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:O3w%b.419678$na.809238@attbi_s04...
> > >
> > > "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040226184313.10061.00000517@mb-
> > > m17.aol.com...
> > > > You should know this about Rich Shewmaker.
> > > >
> > > > He posted: I believe that God does not exist. And I believe that all
alternative
> > > medicine
> > > > is quackery. And I believe that these are both reasonable
assumptions
> > > until I
> > > > am proven wrong.
> > >
> > >
> > > This Rich fellow is entitled to his beliefs and assumptions, of
course.
> > > No one is obligated to 'prove' anything differently to him.
> > >
> > > If he is over 18, he surely understands that other people also are entitled to be
> > > honored for their own beliefs and reasonable assumptions, and he is not required to
> > > prove anything to them either.
> >
> > I do not hold others "obligated" to prove or disprove, but I do

reserve

Quoted message said:

> the
> > right to point out error when people post statements that

contradict

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

our

Quoted message said:

> > current scientific body of knowledge. Assertions that olive oil

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

citrus
> > juice can flush stones from the gallbladder or that ginseng

"strengthens

Quoted message said:

> the
> > immune system" will be challenged, because these things are known

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be

Quoted message said:

> > untrue. And no, I do not think anyone is entitled to be "honored"

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > believing such nonsense.
> >
> > --Rich
>
>
> Prove it wrong then .

Proponents of the flushes are required to show that the gall bladder

has

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fewer stones after a flush. In another post you claim that your doctor recommended them. Did
you have their existence determined by pre-flush ultrasound and did a post-flush ultrasound
show that they were gone?

If

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not,they you really do not know if the flush was effective in

eliminating

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

them.

I have already stated my experience and the experience of others I know personaly . Don't try
and twist it around to me having to prove anything

to

Quoted message said:

you , you are the one who is telling me it doesn't work when from

personal

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

experience I know it does , so you prove your arguement .

No, you have NOT stated your experience. You claim that your gallbladder flushes "worked," but you
have not told us what led you to believe that

you

Quoted message said:

had gallstones in the first place, what experiences caused you to conclude that the flushes
"worked," and whether any objective studies have shown

you

Quoted message said:

to be free of gallstones now.

Did your doctor base his diagnosis of gallstones on an ultrasound study or on computerized axial
tomography? If not, it's time to change doctors. The causes of epigastric pain are far too
variable for gallstones to be diagnosed clinically. Besides, if you present with the symptoms of
gallbladder disease, an ultrasound study is indicated as "standard of

care,"

Quoted message said:

to rule out even more serious disorders such as pancreatic or liver

cancer.

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To do less is malpractice.

Your demand that I "prove my argument" that your gallbladder flushes did

not

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remove any gallstones is silly. I have no reason to believe that you ever had gallstones.

--Rich

My gallstones were removed using olive oil and grapefruit juice flushes . You prove me
wrong sweetie.

Kiss , Kiss

---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (grisoft.comgrisoft.comOpen ↗). Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 -
Release Date: 18/02/2004

"Mark Probert-February 27, 2004" <Mark [email hidden]>
wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark Probert-February 27, 2004" <Mark [email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
>
> "Mark Probert-February 26, 2004" <Mark

[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> wrote in message

"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >
> > "Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
> > >
> > > "Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > > "]news:[email hidden]...
> > > >
> > > > "Coleah" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > > > news:O3w%b.419678$na.809238@attbi_s04...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040226184313.10061.00000517@mb-
> > > > > m17.aol.com...
> > > > > > You should know this about Rich Shewmaker.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > He posted: I believe that God does not exist. And I believe that all
> > alternative
> > > > > medicine
> > > > > > is quackery. And I believe that these are both reasonable
> > assumptions
> > > > > until I
> > > > > > am proven wrong.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > This Rich fellow is entitled to his beliefs and assumptions,

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > course.
> > > > > No one is obligated to 'prove' anything differently to him.
> > > > >
> > > > > If he is over 18, he surely understands that other people

also

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > are entitled to be honored for their own beliefs and

reasonable

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > assumptions, and he is not required to prove anything to them either.
> > > >
> > > > I do not hold others "obligated" to prove or disprove, but I

do

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> reserve
> > > the
> > > > right to point out error when people post statements that

contradict

Quoted message said:

> our
> > > > current scientific body of knowledge. Assertions that olive

oil

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and

Quoted message said:

> > citrus
> > > > juice can flush stones from the gallbladder or that ginseng
> "strengthens
> > > the
> > > > immune system" will be challenged, because these things are

known

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

> be
> > > > untrue. And no, I do not think anyone is entitled to be

"honored"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for
> > > > believing such nonsense.
> > > >
> > > > --Rich
> > >
> > >
> > > Prove it wrong then .
> >
> > Proponents of the flushes are required to show that the gall

bladder

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

has

Quoted message said:

> > fewer stones after a flush. In another post you claim that your

doctor

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > recommended them. Did you have their existence determined by

pre-flush

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > ultrasound and did a post-flush ultrasound show that they were

gone?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If

Quoted message said:

> > not,they you really do not know if the flush was effective in
eliminating
> > them.
>
> I have already stated my experience and the experience of others I

know

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> personaly . Don't try and twist it around to me having to prove

anything

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to
> you , you are the one who is telling me it doesn't work when from

personal

Quoted message said:

> experience I know it does , so you prove your arguement .

Sorry, sweetums, but your personal experience proves NOTHING unless

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

can

Quoted message said:

show that there were stones prior to the flush, and there were no

stones

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

after the flush. The only way to do this, absent surgery, is to use ultrasound.

As for twisting around, the usenet standard, execept in AltWorld is to

have

Quoted message said:

the propenent of some point, etc. provide the proof.

Thus, either prove it..or....your claims are worth what a flush

produces....

::: Exactly my point sweetums , you prove to me that it didn't work ,
otherwise your claims have the value of a needlessly removed gallbladder

.

Quoted message said:

Thank you for your non-answer which provides proof that you have no proof that it actually removed
gall stones.

And sweetums touche to your non answer .

---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (grisoft.comgrisoft.comOpen ↗). Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 -
Release Date: 18/02/2004

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My gallstones were removed using olive oil and grapefruit juice flushes . You prove me wrong
sweetie.

I came from Mars. I am building a thermonuclear device in my kitchen. I can see inside your
gallbladder using psychic remote viewing.

My claims are just as believable as yours; you prove ME wrong.

--Rich

Rich Shewmaker said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My gallstones were removed using olive oil and grapefruit juice flushes . You prove me wrong
sweetie.

I came from Mars. I am building a thermonuclear device in my kitchen. I can see inside your
gallbladder using psychic remote viewing.

My claims are just as believable as yours; you prove ME wrong.

--Rich

Rich, I happen to know that you are not from Mars but from the fourth planet in the Antares cluster.
Looked it up in the Interstellar Drivers License Bureau database.

--

Take out the G'RBAGE to reply
[email hidden]

"WB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:47:43 -1000, "Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My gallstones were removed using olive oil and grapefruit juice flushes

.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You prove me wrong sweetie.

I came from Mars. I am building a thermonuclear device in my kitchen. I

can

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

see inside your gallbladder using psychic remote viewing.

My claims are just as believable as yours; you prove ME wrong.

--Rich

Rich, I happen to know that you are not from Mars but from the fourth planet in the Antares
cluster. Looked it up in the Interstellar Drivers License Bureau database.

Damn! Busted! Now Jan has proof that I'm a LIAR!

;o) Rich

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My gallstones were removed using olive oil and grapefruit juice flushes

.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You prove me wrong sweetie.

I came from Mars. I am building a thermonuclear device in my kitchen. I

can

Quoted message said:

see inside your gallbladder using psychic remote viewing.

My claims are just as believable as yours; you prove ME wrong.

--Rich

Why sweetpea brain , you miss the point . I don't have to prove anything to you . You are the one
who jumped in with your little opinionated point of view . Just what part of , "it worked for me and
others I know " don't you understand ? You really are a little slow on the uptake aren't you ? I
must admit though , you are beginning to bore me a tad , Would you like the last word ? , people
like you put such importance on having it . Kisses and Hugs

Last Word space . . .

---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (grisoft.comgrisoft.comOpen ↗). Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 -
Release Date: 18/02/2004

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My gallstones were removed using olive oil and grapefruit juice

flushes

Quoted message said:

.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You prove me wrong sweetie.

I came from Mars. I am building a thermonuclear device in my kitchen. I

can

Quoted message said:

see inside your gallbladder using psychic remote viewing.

My claims are just as believable as yours; you prove ME wrong.

--Rich

Why sweetpea brain , you miss the point . I don't have to prove anything

to

Quoted message said:

you . You are the one who jumped in with your little opinionated point of view . Just what part of
, "it worked for me and others I know " don't you understand ? You really are a little slow on the
uptake aren't you ? I must admit though , you are beginning to bore me a tad , Would you like the
last word ? , people like you put such importance on having it . Kisses and Hugs

Last Word space

So your point is that your unfounded anecdote that flies in the face of accepted knowledge of
anatomy and physiology should go unchallenged? My challenge of your silly statement is just a way
to get "the last word"? You are wrong on both counts. This newsgroup is supposedly for the
discussion of health alternatives. So discuss already. Tell us all about how gallbladder flushes
work, and give us details about how you found out you had gallstones. Then tell us how you know you
no longer have them.

"This [whatever treatment] worked for me. Prove it didn't!" is a totally empty argument, but it is
the kind of behavior that keeps many people's ideas and beliefs about health and medicine in the
dark ages. If we are ever to reach a new age of enlightenment, such nonsense must be challenged at
every opportunity.

--Rich

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My gallstones were removed using olive oil and grapefruit juice

flushes

Quoted message said:

.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You prove me wrong sweetie.

I came from Mars. I am building a thermonuclear device in my kitchen. I

can

Quoted message said:

see inside your gallbladder using psychic remote viewing.

My claims are just as believable as yours; you prove ME wrong.

--Rich

Why sweetpea brain , you miss the point . I don't have to prove anything

to

Quoted message said:

you . You are the one who jumped in with your little opinionated point of view . Just what part of
, "it worked for me and others I know " don't you understand ? You really are a little slow on the
uptake aren't you ? I must admit though , you are beginning to bore me a tad , Would you like the
last word ? , people like you put such importance on having it . Kisses and Hugs

Last Word space

Better yet, here is a space for your first clue: ][. I made it small so you would not get a
migraine....

My advise to you is stop repeating the Marked pervert's trolls or most here will put ***YOU*** on
ignore and you will be talking to yourself. Add up your IQ points with the Pervert's and you will
have one more point between you.

STOP FEEDING THE TROLLS!

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark Probert-February 27, 2004" <Mark [email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

"Gymmy Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My advise to you is stop repeating the Marked pervert's trolls or most

here

Quoted message said:

will put ***YOU*** on ignore and you will be talking to yourself. Add up your IQ points with the
Pervert's and you will have one more point between you.

Gymmy was braincleansed by AltMed.

Quoted message said:

STOP FEEDING THE TROLLS!

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark Probert-February 27, 2004" <Mark [email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Mark Probert-February 26, 2004" <Mark

Quoted message said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Coleah" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:O3w%b.419678$na.809238@attbi_s04...
>
> "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040226184313.10061.00000517@mb-
> m17.aol.com...
> > You should know this about Rich Shewmaker.
> >
> > He posted: I believe that God does not exist. And I believe that all

alternative

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> medicine
> > is quackery. And I believe that these are both reasonable

assumptions

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> until I
> > am proven wrong.
>
>
> This Rich fellow is entitled to his beliefs and assumptions, of

course.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> No one is obligated to 'prove' anything differently to him.
>
> If he is over 18, he surely understands that other people also are entitled to be honored
> for their own beliefs and reasonable assumptions, and he is not required to prove anything
> to them either.

I do not hold others "obligated" to prove or disprove, but I do reserve

the

Quoted message said:

right to point out error when people post statements that contradict our current scientific
body of knowledge. Assertions that olive oil and

citrus

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

juice can flush stones from the gallbladder or that ginseng "strengthens

the

Quoted message said:

immune system" will be challenged, because these things are known to be untrue. And no, I do
not think anyone is entitled to be "honored" for believing such nonsense.

--Rich

Prove it wrong then .

Proponents of the flushes are required to show that the gall bladder has fewer stones after a
flush. In another post you claim that your doctor recommended them. Did you have their existence
determined by pre-flush ultrasound and did a post-flush ultrasound show that they were gone? If
not,they you really do not know if the flush was effective in eliminating them.

Indeed. One wonders if many of the advocates of flushes who claim they're so great ever actually had
gallstones at all. What is needed to show that flushes work is a set of before-and-after ultrasounds
of the gallbladder, one done before the flushes and one done after the flushes. If the number of
stones hasn't decreased by this objective measure, then there is no evidence that the flushes did
anything at all for the gallstones.

My guess is that many of these people using flushes never actually had gallstones in the first
place. They just experience a little upper abdominal pain after eating a couple of times and self-
diagnose themselves (either that or they run to an altie practitioner who tells them they have
gallstones and need a liver/gallbladder flush).

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"

In article <[email hidden]>, "Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover>

Quoted message said:

"Mark Probert-February 26, 2004" <Mark [email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
>
> "Coleah" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:O3w%b.419678$na.809238@attbi_s04...
> >
> > "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040226184313.10061.00000517@mb-
> > m17.aol.com...
> > > You should know this about Rich Shewmaker.
> > >
> > > He posted: I believe that God does not exist. And I believe that all

alternative

Quoted message said:

> > medicine
> > > is quackery. And I believe that these are both reasonable

assumptions

Quoted message said:

> > until I
> > > am proven wrong.
> >
> >
> > This Rich fellow is entitled to his beliefs and assumptions, of

course.

Quoted message said:

> > No one is obligated to 'prove' anything differently to him.
> >
> > If he is over 18, he surely understands that other people also are entitled to be honored
> > for their own beliefs and reasonable assumptions, and he is not required to prove anything
> > to them either.
>
> I do not hold others "obligated" to prove or disprove, but I do

reserve

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the
> right to point out error when people post statements that contradict

our

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> current scientific body of knowledge. Assertions that olive oil and

citrus

Quoted message said:

> juice can flush stones from the gallbladder or that ginseng

"strengthens

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the
> immune system" will be challenged, because these things are known to

be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> untrue. And no, I do not think anyone is entitled to be "honored" for believing such
> nonsense.
>
> --Rich

Prove it wrong then .

Proponents of the flushes are required to show that the gall bladder has fewer stones after a
flush. In another post you claim that your doctor recommended them. Did you have their existence
determined by pre-flush ultrasound and did a post-flush ultrasound show that they were gone? If
not,they you really do not know if the flush was effective in eliminating them.

I have already stated my experience and the experience of others I know personaly .

Which is not any evidence that the flushes did anything for gallbladder disease.

Quoted message said:

Don't try and twist it around to me having to prove anything to you , you are the one who is
telling me it doesn't work when from personal experience I know it does , so you prove your
arguement .

Your personal experience says nothing about whether gallbladder "flushes" work or not, unless you
can show that you even had gallstones in the first place and that they disappeared or decreased in
number after the flushes.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"

In article <[email hidden]>, "Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover>

Quoted message said:

"Mark Probert-February 27, 2004" <Mark [email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark Probert-February 26, 2004" <Mark [email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
>
> "Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
> >
> > "Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > "]news:[email hidden]...
> > >
> > > "Coleah" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:O3w%b.419678$na.809238@attbi_s04...
> > > >
> > > > "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040226184313.10061.00000517@mb-
> > > > m17.aol.com...
> > > > > You should know this about Rich Shewmaker.
> > > > >
> > > > > He posted: I believe that God does not exist. And I believe that all
> alternative
> > > > medicine
> > > > > is quackery. And I believe that these are both reasonable
> assumptions
> > > > until I
> > > > > am proven wrong.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This Rich fellow is entitled to his beliefs and assumptions, of
> course.
> > > > No one is obligated to 'prove' anything differently to him.
> > > >
> > > > If he is over 18, he surely understands that other people also are entitled to be
> > > > honored for their own beliefs and reasonable assumptions, and he is not required to
> > > > prove anything to them either.
> > >
> > > I do not hold others "obligated" to prove or disprove, but I do
reserve
> > the
> > > right to point out error when people post statements that

contradict

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

our
> > > current scientific body of knowledge. Assertions that olive oil

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> citrus
> > > juice can flush stones from the gallbladder or that ginseng
"strengthens
> > the
> > > immune system" will be challenged, because these things are known

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be
> > > untrue. And no, I do not think anyone is entitled to be "honored"

for

Quoted message said:

> > > believing such nonsense.
> > >
> > > --Rich
> >
> >
> > Prove it wrong then .
>
> Proponents of the flushes are required to show that the gall bladder

has

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> fewer stones after a flush. In another post you claim that your doctor recommended them. Did
> you have their existence determined by pre-flush ultrasound and did a post-flush ultrasound
> show that they were gone?

If

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> not,they you really do not know if the flush was effective in

eliminating

Quoted message said:

> them.

I have already stated my experience and the experience of others I know personaly . Don't try
and twist it around to me having to prove anything

to

Quoted message said:

you , you are the one who is telling me it doesn't work when from

personal

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

experience I know it does , so you prove your arguement .

Sorry, sweetums, but your personal experience proves NOTHING unless you

can

Quoted message said:

show that there were stones prior to the flush, and there were no stones after the flush. The
only way to do this, absent surgery, is to use ultrasound.

As for twisting around, the usenet standard, execept in AltWorld is to

have

Quoted message said:

the propenent of some point, etc. provide the proof.

Thus, either prove it..or....your claims are worth what a flush

produces....

Exactly my point sweetums , you prove to me that it didn't work , otherwise your claims have the
value of a needlessly removed gallbladder .

Logical fallacy used yet again: inappropriately shifting the burden of proof.

See also:

nizkor.orgburden of proof.htmlOpen ↗

Sorry. But the burden of proof is on you, not Mark.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"

In article <[email hidden]>, "Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover>

Quoted message said:

My gallstones were removed using olive oil and grapefruit juice flushes . You prove me wrong
sweetie.

LOL! You're even denser than I thought. You can't even prove you ever had gallstones to begin with.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Mark Probert-February 27, 2004" <Mark

Quoted message said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark Probert-February 27, 2004" <Mark [email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
>
> "Mark Probert-February 26, 2004" <Mark

[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> wrote in message

"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >
> > "Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
> > >
> > > "Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > > "]news:[email hidden]...
> > > >
> > > > "Coleah" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > > > news:O3w%b.419678$na.809238@attbi_s04...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040226184313.10061.00000517@mb-
> > > > > m17.aol.com...
> > > > > > You should know this about Rich Shewmaker.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > He posted: I believe that God does not exist. And I believe that all
> > alternative
> > > > > medicine
> > > > > > is quackery. And I believe that these are both reasonable
> > assumptions
> > > > > until I
> > > > > > am proven wrong.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > This Rich fellow is entitled to his beliefs and assumptions,

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > course.
> > > > > No one is obligated to 'prove' anything differently to him.
> > > > >
> > > > > If he is over 18, he surely understands that other people also are entitled to be
> > > > > honored for their own beliefs and

reasonable

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > > > assumptions, and he is not required to prove anything to them either.
> > > >
> > > > I do not hold others "obligated" to prove or disprove, but I do
> reserve
> > > the
> > > > right to point out error when people post statements that

contradict

Quoted message said:

> our
> > > > current scientific body of knowledge. Assertions that olive oil

and

Quoted message said:

> > citrus
> > > > juice can flush stones from the gallbladder or that ginseng
> "strengthens
> > > the
> > > > immune system" will be challenged, because these things are

known

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

> be
> > > > untrue. And no, I do not think anyone is entitled to be

"honored"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for
> > > > believing such nonsense.
> > > >
> > > > --Rich
> > >
> > >
> > > Prove it wrong then .
> >
> > Proponents of the flushes are required to show that the gall bladder

has

Quoted message said:

> > fewer stones after a flush. In another post you claim that your

doctor

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > recommended them. Did you have their existence determined by

pre-flush

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > ultrasound and did a post-flush ultrasound show that they were gone?

If

Quoted message said:

> > not,they you really do not know if the flush was effective in
eliminating
> > them.
>
> I have already stated my experience and the experience of others I

know

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> personaly . Don't try and twist it around to me having to prove

anything

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to
> you , you are the one who is telling me it doesn't work when from

personal

Quoted message said:

> experience I know it does , so you prove your arguement .

Sorry, sweetums, but your personal experience proves NOTHING unless you

can

Quoted message said:

show that there were stones prior to the flush, and there were no stones after the flush. The
only way to do this, absent surgery, is to use ultrasound.

As for twisting around, the usenet standard, execept in AltWorld is to

have

Quoted message said:

the propenent of some point, etc. provide the proof.

Thus, either prove it..or....your claims are worth what a flush

produces....

::: Exactly my point sweetums , you prove to me that it didn't work ,
otherwise your claims have the value of a needlessly removed gallbladder .

Thank you for your non-answer which provides proof that you have no proof that it actually removed
gall stones.

Indeed. It's absolutely hysterical to watch this guy's transparent attempt to avoid backing up his
assertions with evidence by trying to shift the burden of proof back to the person who is voicing
skepticism of his claims.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"

In article <[email hidden]>, "Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover>

Quoted message said:

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My gallstones were removed using olive oil and grapefruit juice flushes

.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You prove me wrong sweetie.

I came from Mars. I am building a thermonuclear device in my kitchen. I

can

Quoted message said:

see inside your gallbladder using psychic remote viewing.

My claims are just as believable as yours; you prove ME wrong.

--Rich

Why sweetpea brain , you miss the point . I don't have to prove anything to you .

Then you should have no expectation that anyone will believe your claims if you are so lame that you
can't even back them up with objective evidence.

Quoted message said:

You are the one who jumped in with your little opinionated point of view . Just what part of , "it
worked for me and others I know " don't you understand ?

What part of "Your anecdotes mean nothing if you can't prove you had gallstone disease in the first
place" don't YOU understand?

[Snip]

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"

Good point and I have taken it . My ignore list is now in operation as I see these trolls are not
interested in the reality . However , lets not be too hasty , judgemental or superior re the IQ
points shall we ?

"Gymmy Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My advise to you is stop repeating the Marked pervert's trolls or most

here

Quoted message said:

will put ***YOU*** on ignore and you will be talking to yourself. Add up your IQ points with the
Pervert's and you will have one more point between you.

STOP FEEDING THE TROLLS!

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark Probert-February 27, 2004" <Mark [email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (grisoft.comgrisoft.comOpen ↗). Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 -
Release Date: 18/02/2004

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Mark Probert-February 27, 2004" <Mark

Quoted message said:

"Gymmy Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My advise to you is stop repeating the Marked pervert's trolls or most

here

Quoted message said:

will put ***YOU*** on ignore and you will be talking to yourself. Add up your IQ points with the
Pervert's and you will have one more point between you.

Gymmy was braincleansed by AltMed.

Are you sure he ever actually had a brain to be cleansed?

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"