Orac <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted message said:In article
<[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] (toby jones) wrote:
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:Quoted message said:> Do you understand that for many who go in search of
> alternative solutions, safety is far and away the
> more serious concern?
Two problems with such a statement: First, not all alt-
med therapies are actually "safe."
I did not mean to suggest that they were. However,
compared with risks associated with surgery, for
example, including the possibility of unnecessary
surgery and consequences from that, many alt approaches
involve rather less risk.
Most of them also involve considerably less efficacy
as well.
Quoted message said:And many are considered preventative rather than cures.
This means that someone may wish to try the "stone
flush" or whatever, not as a cure for a disease but as
part of a general health-improvement program.
Of course, the beauty of that, as far as alties are
concerned, is that if they stay healthy they can claim it
was their "preventatives" that did it, whether there is
actually any objective evidence that the "preventative"
actually prevents any disease!
Your concern appears to be with "people making false claims"
rather than with the therapy or treatment that resulted in
people making those claims.
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:Quoted message said:Second, taking something that is "safe" but ineffective
is no better than taking nothing at all and letting the
disease run its course.
That sounds self-evident, but it is not that simple.
(And wasn't there are a recent study showing noticable
_placebo_ effects?)
Placebo effects usually do not involve objective
improvements in clinical condition (tumor regression, for
instance, or regression of atherosclerotic plaques in
blood vessels). They involve the patient feeling better,
whether his disease process is actually affected or not.
That may not always be a bad thing, but don't confuse
placebo effect with true efficacy.
In the recent study on placebo for pain, the effects
included physical changes in the brain and neurological
pathways. (iiuic)
There may be greater potential for physical healing, from
within the mind, than has yet been considered. For some
people, the main questions surrounding any health
treatment, whether alt or standard med, concern the extent
that it may facilitate or impede the mind-and-body's
ability to heal itself. And so, safety, side effects, etc,
are a main concern.
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:People trying out alt therapies usually try several,
whether sequentially or at the same time. And in many
cases they _are_ happy with the overall results; they
find that "something" worked, for them. They find
various health improvements.
Or, more commonly, they think they find various health
improvements.
You base this on..?
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:Also, our understanding of what may have an effect in
regard to health, changes over time. In accordance with
that, adjustments are made, such as, for example, the
fortification of breakfast cereals with vitamins.
Which is more of a marketing gimmick for cereal companies
more than anything else.
Folate?
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:Quoted message said:> And that for some of them, this is because of having
> had unfortunate exeriences from within the medical
> system.
That is unfortunate for them. However, such bad
experiences do not mean we should not challenge them
when they make unsupported
assertions about how great they think various alt-med
therapies are.
Most certainly, - question, and find out what was really
happening, if someone is making outrageous claims of
"success" with something that should have had no effect.
That is really all I do. However, some alties react rather
violently even to relatively mild skepticism.
There seem to be reactive and reactionary elements on mha.
It may be that one extreme begets the other. And, the lines
are not always clear cut: they appear to vary according to
the sphere of discussion.
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:Quoted message said:Unfortunate experiences within the conventional medical
system do not give them a free pass when they spout
pseudoscientific nonsense.
The one does not follow automatically from the other.
I never said it did. However, on this newsgroup, it does
often enough.
Conversely, someone's belief that something is "nonsense"
should not be a deterrrent to serious discussion of that
matter, if it falls within "alt health".
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