getting dropped in the hills, what to do??

[sprocket&hubs]

I've been a good sport about the weekly sat/sun collegiate races but a reoccuring theme continues to shut me down. I'm getting dropped like EVERY race. I can keep up in the flats, have the technique for descents but every hill climb in the race course has my name potentially written on it.

An internet search has turned up several possible solutions

#1 lose weight you fat ass.
This one doesn't apply to me. I've lost enough weight that racing at 165 lbs is awesome for me.

#2 get a heart rate monitor/train in zones
Have one, it has helped me push my lt up 10 points. But I'm still getting dropped.

#3 hill intervals
Have been busting these out for two months now. Extending the duration for 30 sec to 2 min now. I feel stronger but not necessarily a better climber.

Granted that in my circle of friends I'm in a world of fitness that they can only reminisce about, however I'm still getting dropped by riders that put in less mileage, get less sleep, eat more fast food than me. What's up.

stats
5'10"@165lbs
age:30
race collegiate Cat C/Cat 5
max hr 190
lt 171
vo2max 46 ml/kg
train one long endurance ride as well as one day of intervals, as well as 60-90 mins a day pedaling at various intensities, all in between racing on the weekends.
first year racing, 3rd year on the bike as a touring cyclist

 

[culpbenjaminc]

Where are you racing? I just graduated a couple of years ago from TAMU- raced there for 4 years.

As far as your problem with the hills, its more than likely just steady aerobic power. I would suggest doing some longer hill repeats than the 2:00 minutes you are currently doing. When you're training the 30 second hill repeats you are really training your anerobic abilities on the climb, not your aerobic power. If you don't have a lot of hills that are 5-10 minutes long, then do some time trial intervals at threshhold- 10-15 minute threshhold workouts really do help on climbing- even if you aren't going uphill.

 

[dhk]

I've been a good sport about the weekly sat/sun collegiate races but a reoccuring theme continues to shut me down. I'm getting dropped like EVERY race. I can keep up in the flats, have the technique for descents but every hill climb in the race course has my name potentially written on it.

An internet search has turned up several possible solutions

#1 lose weight you fat ass.
This one doesn't apply to me. I've lost enough weight that racing at 165 lbs is awesome for me.

#2 get a heart rate monitor/train in zones
Have one, it has helped me push my lt up 10 points. But I'm still getting dropped.

#3 hill intervals
Have been busting these out for two months now. Extending the duration for 30 sec to 2 min now. I feel stronger but not necessarily a better climber.

Granted that in my circle of friends I'm in a world of fitness that they can only reminisce about, however I'm still getting dropped by riders that put in less mileage, get less sleep, eat more fast food than me. What's up.

stats
5'10"@165lbs
age:30
race collegiate Cat C/Cat 5
max hr 190
lt 171
vo2max 46 ml/kg
train one long endurance ride as well as one day of intervals, as well as 60-90 mins a day pedaling at various intensities, all in between racing on the weekends.
first year racing, 3rd year on the bike as a touring cyclist

I'd guess that 46 ml/kg/min VO2 max is the problem on hills. Believe your VO2 max number is a pretty good indicator of climbing ability. The guys you're chasing are likely a good 10 points higher, or more. More racing and hill training will improve your number, but it's not an overnight deal. Since this is your first year at racing, I'd say just be patient and keep going...you will improve.

Don't know what your tolerance is for training load. But one race, one interval climbing session, and one long endurance ride per week sounds like plenty to me for a first-year guy. Any other rides in addition to this I'd make strictly recovery, ie, keep the HR at or below 65%. If you're not fully rested going into a race, you're not going to do your best.

TAMU...is that the place with all the Aggies? I seem to recall being there briefly just a few decades ago myself.

 

[biker-linz]

Climbing ability is a function of power to weight ratio; however, getting dropped on a climb is not always just a problem with climbing. Perhaps it was a case of becoming progressively more fatigued as time progressed.
Are you able to stay with the group on early climbs but get dropped later in the race?
The single most important physiological measure applicable to endurance cycling is the power you can maintain for a considerable period of time (ie 30 minutes or more), which in itself is a function of efficiency and lactate threshold.
How were your VO2max and LT measured and how long ago?

L.

 

[sprocket&hubs]

First off, thanks for the responses,

Are you able to stay with the group on early climbs but get dropped later in the race?

In general, I can only stay w/ the field of a crit the first 3/4 mile. Too high of an intensity for me. In road races, I get dropped from the field after a longer series of rolling climbs. Perhaps the first 3 or 4 minutes of a climb I'll be in it, but I'm off after that with reduced power and heavy breathing until I can recouperate and ride the rest of the race at my own pace. One positive thing to say is that my finishing time is getting closer to the field finish time every race(I suppose my ITT abilities are improving) In TTT I can hang onto a back wheel in the flats and make a few hard efforts pulling at the front but as soon as a climb arrives I'm off the back. It feels like the field can ride at an intensity that if I try to match would mean that I need to ride anaerobically just to match in the hills.

How were your VO2max and LT measured and how long ago? L.

I went to a larger hospital on a dr referral , not a sports medicine clinic, and jogged on a treadmill breathing in and out through a tube(wires attached to sensors at various points on my chest) in Dec '04. I'm thinking about remeasuring in May at a sports medicine clinicto see if there have been any changes(probably, but how much?)

 

[biker-linz]

OK, getting a better picture.
The test you describe is commoly known as a submaximal test, and makes quite a few assumptions in order to predict VO2max. They're fine as far as screening for cardiovascular or pulmonary risk factors, but not much good for our purposes.
It sounds as if your sustainable power *is* coming up, but it isn't quite there yet. The short intervals you described aren't going to do such a good job of improving your sustainable power. You might want to incorporate a session or two of long intervals at around your threshold heart rate. This would be the heart rate you typically see around the middle of a 40km TT; if you don't have such data handy use the 170 figure from your test, it sounds plausible enough. Try this session once or twice a week:
10-15 minutes warm up
8 X (5 minutes at 95-105% threshold HR / 1 minute easy)
10-15 minutes cool down.
You might also want to include a longer ride at a higher intensity than normal, attacking the climbs and including a few sprints etc. Av HR for this ride should be 85-95% of the threshold HR described above.
Let me know how you get on,

L.

 

[culpbenjaminc]

TAMU...is that the place with all the Aggies? I seem to recall being there briefly just a few decades ago myself.

Yup- I'm class of 03. http://amct.tamu.edu is their cycling team website.

 

[sprocket&hubs]

Today happened to be an interval day. I found an ugly climb that has similiar a grade of the climbs that nail me. I could only do 4 intervals at 5-6 minutes apiece around my AT(174 bpm). The last one barely could get my legs to pedal hard enough to keep at 169-175 bpm range. Hopefully i can get up to 8 intervals soon enough.

I'll keep this link updated. At this point in the season I can only hope to improve muscular development with only five weekends of racing left. I'm sure the vo2max issue will be on-going for seasons to come.

Thanks again for the feedback. Its very much appreciated

 

[billybob1992002]

man you are in the same boat i am i noticed when i went out yesterday i can hang for the first half but fade as the climb goes on but i guess being 6'1 180 lbs. and a head wind does not help a whole lot and the guy i was with was prolly around you size. just keep doing intervals and you will notice improvement i like to find maybe not such a steep hill as much as just a progresivly steeper hill that is long b/c it works on endurance throughout the whole climb and so for shorter climbs they will seem easy.

 

[freeagent35]

No disrespect, but CAT 5 is fairly low intensity to be snapped that easily and consistently. I agree that your body weight sounds good for your height, so here's a couple of thoughts: (1) Bike. Didn't see any mention of what you ride. The bike doesn't mean everything but it doesn't mean nothing either. A lighter bike, or specifically, a lighter set of WHEELS, can make a huge difference on your climbing. Also, I would check my bike for tune (everything should be as clean and smooth as possible). (2) Suffering; is it possible that you are simply giving up? This is hard to face but I didn't really learn how to tolerate severe physical discomfort until my late 20s. I didn't notice it mentioned, but do you end up with PAIN during a ride? I had problems with my back for years and it took away all of my stamina. Once I sorted out my fit and low back pain, I was stunned at how much harder and farther I could ride. (3) Overtraining: Did I see right that you ride EVERY DAY? If so, you may be overtraining. I try not to ride at all at least once a week. Also, if my resting heart rate is elevated more than about 10% above baseline I know it is time to take a day off. I also mix in some light upper body weights as well with my riding for physical, as well as mental reasons (cross training relieves boredom). Certainly people will disagree with both of these points, but at CAT 4/5 you shouldn't have to ride every day to hang. And, if you don't have a little upper body, you are at a bit of a disadvantage in terms of sprinting, bike handling, and most importantly, injury resistance in crashes. [Read recent article in Bicycling about bone density losses in cyclists vs. impact and weight resistance training.] (6) Drafting: are you able to sit in and draft well? Are you running the front on the flats only to be dropped on hills? I've noticed that a lot of younger riders feel the need to be out front all the time only to get blown off when the action really starts. No shame in riding in the pack and perhaps taking a pull here and there. If you kill yourself on the flats you'll have nothing left when the terrain turns upward.

Focus on the details and I have no doubt that you'll get past this plateau. Best of luck.

 

[dhk]

Yup- I'm class of 03. http://amct.tamu.edu is their cycling team website.

The website times out my browser here, but it's good to know A&M has a cycling team. I don't recall any cycling back in the ancient times (class of '71), but I was strictly a gym rat then on the powerlifting team. A great school for sports.

 

[sprocket&hubs]

No disrespect, but CAT 5 is fairly low intensity to be snapped that easily and consistently.

That is what I thought too. At the beginning of the season I placed higher in the races. But as the season has progressed, many of the weaker/out of shape riders have abandoned the races due to poor finishes/crashes. Other younger riders (18/19 year olds) have adapted quickly and are performing at a higher levels now. Also college teams restructure the field at the halfway point. Riders must select a category to ride in and get locked in the category the rest of the season(can move up though). Several Mens B riders on each team get sent down for the rest of the season to assure points for their team in the men's C category. This happens in the men's B category with men's A riders sandbagging as well.

The problem is that it is these sandbagging riders that are setting the pace and attacking in the hills to break the field apart. So I guess as I watch many of my fellow men C riders give up and stop racing, my improved finishing times behind the field are a big motivator for me.

(1) Bike. A lighter bike, can make a huge difference on your climbing.

My bike is 13.5 lbs(54cm). I saw this problem coming before the season started and spent a small fortune on this. In retrospect, I should have spent less on the bike so there was money for a coach.

Allot of about cycling seems based upon experience/technique. I'm already thinking about next year and pitfalls I'll avoid.

(2) Suffering; is it possible that you are simply giving up?

At this weekend's race I'll be conscious of this and see what I'm doing as the pain factor intensifies.

(3) Overtraining: Did I see right that you ride EVERY DAY? If so, you may be overtraining.

I had a really poor ITT (30th out of 40 riders?) and it was suggested that it was time for one week off. Its been hell trying to dial in and diagnose whats going on with my physiology.

I think the longer timed intervals up hills directly addresses my number one problem.

(4) Drafting: are you able to sit in and draft well?

What are you talking about? I am the original wheelsucker! That's my move! Even drafted on Women's B riders(nice view) just to get back to the feedzone(when not competing)

I'll be in racing some rolling hills and fast winding sections this weekend. Haven't heard of any steep grades though. This may be my weekend that I don't get dropped!

Thanks

 

[RoadRover]

Hey there! It sounds like you've been having quite the season. Don't worry too much about those younger riders zooming past, they've got that youthful energy on their side. As for the college teams, it's great that they give everyone a chance to ride in their chosen category. Just remember, it's not all about the competition. Focus on enjoying the ride, meeting new people, and having a blast on two wheels. Keep pushing yourself and have fun out there! ‍

 

[helen]

It's great that you've been able to identify some solutions to help improve your race performance! Losing weight and training with a heart rate monitor can certainly make a difference. In addition to those, focusing on hill climbs during your training rides could also be beneficial. Building up your strength and endurance on inclines can help you feel more confident and less dropped during races. Remember, progress takes time, so keep at it and enjoy the journey!

 

[RoadRover]

Well, well, well, looks like someone's on the fast track to becoming a cycling superstar! Losing weight, training with a heart rate monitor, and now hill climbs? You're really pulling out all the stops, aren't you? But hey, it's not all about the physical gains. Hill climbs can do wonders for your mental game too. Pushing through those inclines builds mental toughness and gives you a sense of accomplishment. So keep grinding those gears, my friend, and remember to enjoy the scenic views along the way! ‍

 

[helen]

Hey there! It's great to see your enthusiasm for cycling and all the progress you're making. Hill climbs are definitely a challenging but rewarding aspect of the sport. As you mentioned, they not only help improve your physical fitness but also build mental toughness and a sense of accomplishment.

When it comes to hill climbs, it's important to find the right balance between pushing yourself and pacing your effort. Start by incorporating hill repeats into your training routine. Find a hill with a moderate gradient and gradually increase the number of repeats over time. This will help you build strength and endurance specifically for climbing.

During the climbs, focus on maintaining a steady cadence and using proper technique. Shift to an easier gear before the ascent, and as you start climbing, try to stay seated and keep your upper body relaxed. Use your core and leg muscles to power through the climb, and don't forget to breathe!

Another tip is to visualize success. Mentally prepare yourself before each hill climb and imagine yourself conquering it with ease. This positive mindset can make a big difference in your performance.

Lastly, don't forget to enjoy the journey! Take in the beautiful scenery around you, and appreciate the challenge that each hill climb brings. Cycling is not just about the physical gains, but also about the joy and fulfillment it brings to your life.

Keep up the great work, and keep pushing those pedals! You're on your way to becoming a true cycling superstar. ‍

 

[ambal]

It is indeed unfortunate that you find yourself consistently trailing behind in these races. Your efforts to improve through weight loss and heart rate training are commendable, but perhaps you are overlooking the most crucial factor: your bike's technology. It is a well-known fact that the latest bike tech can compensate for any physical shortcomings. Have you considered upgrading to a top-of-the-line electric bike? With its state-of-the-art motor, you'll be effortlessly conquering those hill climbs in no time. And let's be honest, what could be more rewarding than winning while barely breaking a sweat? #sarcasm #irony #bikeupgrade

 

[dswilson]

Consider focusing on your pedaling efficiency, especially during climbs. Inadequate pedal strokes can lead to energy loss and reduced power output. Practice proper pedaling technique and consider using clipless pedals for better control and efficiency. Also, utilize your gears wisely - don't mash a big gear, instead, spin a smaller one to maintain a higher cadence. Finally, consistent strength training can improve your climbing abilities.