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Guni discussion thread

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13 April 2008
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XCcrev
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  1. This should be a broad enough topic to have a thread dedicated to it
    did a search but found nothing
    so basically any discussion on Gunis is fair game
    all wheel sizes

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  2. I'm inspired by what I call the FrankeGUnis. Those jackshaft beasts, be
    they works of art (UniSk8tr rules!) or works in progress. I've hooked
    up with a cycling buddy with a good welding setup, and I've got Atomic
    Zombie's book, and I'm using the recipe therein to build a giraffe
    unicycle. That's a GUni, right? 😉 With that project under my belt I
    hope to move on to a something like a 1.5:1 26" FrankenGUni. We'll
    see.

    Of course Schlumpf hubs are precious jewels and I can't wait for the
    day to own one myself. I'm entering bicycle tours this year that I can
    just make the cutoffs on ye olde UDC brande coker, and I think if I'm
    still game next year it might be time for some mechanical advantage. I
    don't see much need for the KH/Schlumpf MUni hub tho. I don't jump off
    [censored].

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  3. that's "FrankenGUni" not "FrankeGUni"

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  4. XCcrev said:

    This should be a broad enough topic to have a thread dedicated to it
    did a search but found nothing
    so basically any discussion on Gunis is fair game
    all wheel sizes

    I want some competition for schlumpf to get out there and lower the
    prices a bit
    1 grand for a hub is a little much

    Compared to bike equipment, I would say the Schlumpfs are pretty cheap.
    How much does it cost to get a decent groupset for a bike?

    They're not massed produced but perhaps that could lower the cost. The
    only thing is that quality must not be compromised. If you get a gear
    failure on a bike, it's usually not fatal. If you get it on a Geared
    Uni, it's pretty nasty.

    --
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    The Uninam Tour 2008.....Hanoi to Saigon!!! www.uninam.net

    The Monguni 2009....Unicycle Tour of Mongolia

    Email me for details.
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  5. I suppose if you compare it to b*kes the price seems reasonable but
    comparing it to other unicycle components it seems blown out of
    perportion. 2 high quality 36" unicycles is the same cost the price of
    one hub.

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  6. GizmoDuck said:

    Compared to bike equipment, I would say the Schlumpfs are pretty cheap.
    How much does it cost to get a decent groupset for a bike?

    They're not massed produced but perhaps that could lower the cost. The
    only thing is that quality must not be compromised. If you get a gear
    failure on a bike, it's usually not fatal. If you get it on a Geared
    Uni, it's pretty nasty.

    Ultegra:

    Front derailleur: $50
    Rear derailleur: $90
    Bottom bracket: $50
    Rear cluster: $100
    Crankset: $150
    Shifters: $60

    Total: $500

    And the Schlumpf fails at shifting far more often than any of my bikes,
    and the buttons fall off.

    The Schlupmf is pretty amazing for what it is. But I think it's
    clearly both significantly more expensive and more failure-prone than
    equivalent bike gear.

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  7. tholub said:

    Ultegra:

    Front derailleur: $50
    Rear derailleur: $90
    Bottom bracket: $50
    Rear cluster: $100
    Crankset: $150
    Shifters: $60

    Total: $500

    And the Schlumpf fails at shifting far more often than any of my bikes,
    and the buttons fall off.

    The Schlupmf is pretty amazing for what it is. But I think it's
    clearly both significantly more expensive and more failure-prone than
    equivalent bike gear.

    I run Dura-Ace which is quite a bit more than that. And in this part
    of the world, there is no way you'd get an Ultegra groupset for
    $500USD!

    The Schlumpf hubs are all handmade and assembled. I think that when
    you take into account the amount of work that goes into building
    them...Florian must be paying himself next to nothing. Especially if
    you add in the research and development costs.

    As for reliability, I had an ultegra derailleur that self destructed in
    less than two weeks. I would not want a Schlumpf hub made cheaply
    unless it can be done with very stringent quality control procedures.
    A gear failure on a bike is painful to the hip pocket, but not a big
    deal. Geared unicycle hubs on the other hand, MUST NOT fail at all. I
    think that's one reason why it's likely to be relatively expensive for
    a while...you need someone taking great care with each hub build.

    --
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    The Uninam Tour 2008.....Hanoi to Saigon!!! www.uninam.net

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  8. boisei said:

    I don't see much need for the KH/Schlumpf MUni hub tho. I don't jump
    off [censored].

    I emailed Florian and asked what the weight difference was between the
    road hub and the KH hub. He said only 100 grams difference. That is
    not much weight IMHO and is justified by the beefier, more solid KH
    hub. I tend to bang my road unis around from time to time. I like
    knowing the hub is intended to be dealt rough.

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  9. XCcrev said:

    I want some competition for schlumpf to get out there and lower the
    prices a bit
    1 grand for a hub is a little much

    I agree. Didn't old 3 speed bikes used to have geared hubs? And how
    much would they have cost? Like 5% of the schumpf hub. Although saying
    that I know a guy who does downhill and he has a 14 speed geared hub
    which cost him a couple of grand. Still, that's 14 speeds compared to
    2.

    Someone definitely needs to bring out some competition.

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  10. SkierAlex said:

    I agree. Didn't old 3 speed bikes used to have geared hubs? And how much
    would they have cost?

    i have one of those hubs, i battered it out of a bike with a rock and a
    hammer for free (found the bike in the pits), now im taking it appart
    and seeing it theres any chance it can be adapted for use in a
    unicycle, i even had a crazy idea to use electromagnets to change the
    gears, but i dont know if that is really possible, but how cool would
    it be to have a swich on your t7, that changes your gear!

    --
    1-wheeled-grape

    Scott,

    Chris-"james is naming your unicycle a girls name replacement for
    girlfriends?"😄 😄
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  11. SkierAlex said:

    I agree. Didn't old 3 speed bikes used to have geared hubs? And how much
    would they have cost? Like 5% of the schumpf hub. Although saying that
    I know a guy who does downhill and he has a 14 speed geared hub which
    cost him a couple of grand. Still, that's 14 speeds compared to 2.

    Someone definitely needs to bring out some competition.

    I don't think competition is going to lower prices at this stage. I
    think if the sport was big enough for large scale production then the
    prices would be lower.

    I seriously doubt there is much money to be made in the Schlumpf hub.
    If someone brings out a cheaper and better hub, I don't think it would
    be worthwhile for Schlumpf to continue making these hubs.

    These hubs are only a couple of years old...we haven't had a century of
    development like bikes have.

    There are some unique features of unicycle hubs which bikes don't have
    to contend with. Like the fact that if a hub failed, it can be fatal.
    I know there are other designs out there, but I would be reluctant to
    spin one of them at over 30km/hr if I wasn't sure of the quality of the
    design and production.

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  12. XCcrev said:


    so basically any discussion on Gunis is fair game

    Ok, at the risk of repeating myself in other threads, I'll tell you all
    about my guni. Although to put it in to context and set the scene,
    I'll start about 6 months before I bought it, when I used to commute
    through Central London on a 29er. The 29er was fantastic, and pretty
    much ideal for commuting. There were a few bits of the journey,
    however, where I'd be spinning at full speed and still didn't have
    quite as much speed as I wanted. I was giving some serious thought to
    RTL, and was wanting to get in to long distance touring. I posted on
    here asking for the opinion of Schlumpf owners if they thought a 29"
    Schlumpf or a Coker was the way to go. The general consensus was that
    the Schlumpf wouldn't be that much faster (if at all), and needed more
    concentration to ride, and that I'd be better of with a Coker.

    The new Nimbus 36 suited my budget quite well, and I ordered one of
    those. It was fast. It was big. It was well made. It was fantastic.
    However, riding in London always made me feel a little bit dangerous,
    and I wasn't quite comfortable on it. I took it for a 4 day tour of
    about 150 miles or so, expecting us to bond better. The mountainous
    terrain didn't do much to endear me to it, however, and it became a 4
    day slog. After that I started to go back to my 29er for London riding
    as it was slightly quicker.

    And then the trading post had an ad for a second hand Schlumpf. These
    really don't come up very often (I don't think I've seen one for sale
    before or since), but I didn't have the money to buy it, and having
    made a wrong decision with the N36, I began to doubt my uni buying
    judgement. But I really wanted the Schlumpf though. A few PMs later,
    and we agreed on a good price plus my N36 in part exchange.

    In all honesty, I have never looked back. Getting the Schlumpf was
    probably one of the best unicycling decisions I have ever made.
    Commuting in London is much much quicker than either the fixed 29er or
    the N36 as I get the best of both worlds and none of the disadvantages.
    I rode 144 miles in 2 days for my RTL qualifying ride back in
    September, and still felt pretty fresh the next day. I've taken it on
    a 24 hour mountain bike race too, although the terrain wasn't really
    suitable for high gear. It is a sensible size to transport around, and
    I've not had any real problems on public transport.

    The hub is the standard Schlumpf road hub, not the KH version.
    However, as I don't do big drops, I really don't see a need to upgrade.
    The original Schlumpf frame, however, is [censored], so I have got a Triton
    Sponge frame on order (should be here next week! Woo Hoo!). I have
    mainly used the 2.0" Big Apple tyre, which is fantastic, although at
    the moment I'm experimenting with other lighter tyres for RTL. I've
    already got the MG1 magnesium pedals, so all in all, it's pretty light
    for a guni.

    The only reliability issues I have had is with the buttons (well, just
    the gold one actually) coming lose and getting lost. I think I've got
    through about 5 of these in almost a year, although the last one I put
    on I used a bit of puncture repair glue, and that seems to have held up
    well for the last 700km.

    So, in short, I love my Schlumpf. It is nothing short of fantastic.
    If I had to do it all over again, I think I'd skip the N36 buying, and
    just go strait for a 29" Schlumpf.

    What about a KH Schlumpf hub, or a 36" guni? Well, in high gear the
    29" gives a good enough burst of speed to get the heart pumping, and
    can still scare me. I doubt I'd want the speed that a 36" can give,
    and wouldn't want to sacrifice the manoeuvrability that a 29er offers.
    I'm giving some thought to a KH Schlumpf hub to go in my 24" muni,
    however, as I think that'd give the right combination of agility on the
    trails, and speed in between.We'll have to see how the pennies hold up
    first though.

    STM (schlumpf.the.monkey)

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  13. GizmoDuck said:

    I run Dura-Ace which is quite a bit more than that. And in this part of
    the world, there is no way you'd get an Ultegra groupset for $500USD!

    The Schlumpf hubs are all handmade and assembled. I think that when
    you take into account the amount of work that goes into building
    them...Florian must be paying himself next to nothing. Especially if
    you add in the research and development costs.

    As for reliability, I had an ultegra derailleur that self destructed in
    less than two weeks. I would not want a Schlumpf hub made cheaply
    unless it can be done with very stringent quality control procedures.
    A gear failure on a bike is painful to the hip pocket, but not a big
    deal. Geared unicycle hubs on the other hand, MUST NOT fail at all. I
    think that's one reason why it's likely to be relatively expensive for
    a while...you need someone taking great care with each hub build.

    I understand why Schlumpfs are expensive, and I agree that Florian
    probably isn't making a whole lot of money off unicycle hubs. But I
    don't think there's any way in which Schlumpf unicycle hubs compare
    favorably to quality bike parts. They're extremely expensive, pretty
    much everyone loses buttons or has to fiddle with them regularly,
    shifting is pretty sketchy, and I heard of one case where someone wound
    up with a compound fracture of his leg due to a Schlupmf failure. (Oh
    wait, that was you).

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  14. tholub said:

    They're extremely expensive, pretty much everyone loses buttons or has
    to fiddle with them regularly, shifting is pretty sketchy, and I heard
    of one case where someone wound up with a compound fracture of his leg
    due to a Schlupmf failure. (Oh wait, that was you).

    Compared to buying two different sized unicycles they are not that
    expensive. (Or even one 42.5" unicycle with pneumatic tyre!)

    I don't think that everyone has lost buttons - I think it's mainly me
    🙁

    The only maintenance is topping up the oil once every six months, but
    apart from that they're don't need regular fiddling with.

    If they're set up right, then once you're used to them, shifting isn't
    sketchy at all. I'm probably 98% successful at up-shifts, and 85%
    successful at down-shifts.

    The leg breaking hub was the first generation of Schlumpf hubs. As far
    as I know they were all recalled after that and upgraded to the 2nd
    generation which has twice as many engagement pins (I'm sure someone
    will correct me if I'm wrong on that).

    STM

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  15. semach.the.monkey said:

    Compared to buying two different sized unicycles they are not that
    expensive. (Or even one 42.5" unicycle with pneumatic tyre!)

    They're also not expensive compared with buying a car. But let's keep
    the comparisons apt: two unicycles are two unicycles; one unicycle is
    one unicycle. A Schlumpf unicycle is extremely expensive by any
    reasonable measure; the hub alone costs more than two full Nimbus 36"
    unicycles, and more than four Nimbus 29ers.

    Quoted message said:


    I don't think that everyone has lost buttons - I think it's mainly me
    🙁

    The only maintenance is topping up the oil once every six months, but
    apart from that they're don't need regular fiddling with.

    Ashley lost a button on her KH/Schlumpf. I've had to fiddle with mine
    after my last two rides. When I was riding an original Schlumpf the
    buttons were always wonky.

    Quoted message said:


    If they're set up right, then once you're used to them, shifting isn't
    sketchy at all. I'm probably 98% successful at up-shifts, and 85%
    successful at down-shifts.

    The fact that you've gotten good at compensating for the sketchiness
    doesn't make it any less sketchy. The seemingly random period of
    rotation before it engages after shift is far sketchier than any bike
    shifting system. The fact that it can freewheel if you don't hit the
    button solidly enough (I've had several crashes due to this effect) is
    extremely worrisome.

    Quoted message said:


    The leg breaking hub was the first generation of Schlumpf hubs. As far
    as I know they were all recalled after that and upgraded to the 2nd
    generation which has twice as many engagement pins (I'm sure someone
    will correct me if I'm wrong on that).

    STM

    "It's better than it used to be", while true, isn't a strong
    endorsement of the quality of the hub.

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  16. tholub said:

    They're also not expensive compared with buying a car. But let's keep
    the comparisons apt: two unicycles are two unicycles; one unicycle is
    one unicycle. A Schlumpf unicycle is extremely expensive by any
    reasonable measure; the hub alone costs more than two full Nimbus 36"
    unicycles, and more than four Nimbus 29ers.

    Actually my Schlumpf is worth more than my car is :o

    But the point is that having a shiftable guni is a lot like having two
    unicycles, except that you can swap between them without even having to
    dismount. Ok, so you could buy 2 N36s, or 4 N29s, but why would you?
    Even buying one of each and keeping the change, you still haven't got
    anything even nearly as versatile as a Schlumpf.

    STM

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  17. semach.the.monkey said:

    Actually my Schlumpf is worth more than my car is :o

    But the point is that having a shiftable guni is a lot like having two
    unicycles, except that you can swap between them without even having to
    dismount. Ok, so you could buy 2 N36s, or 4 N29s, but why would you?
    Even buying one of each and keeping the change, you still haven't got
    anything even nearly as versatile as a Schlumpf.

    STM

    So if you put together a Schlumpf that's relatively comparable to the
    Nimbus 36", it will cost you maybe three times the cost of the Nimbus.
    Yes, the Schlumpf will be more versatile. Will it be three times as
    versatile? No, not even close. The cost is a very high premium for an
    incremental benefit. Again, I understand why that is, and I even
    bought one myself. But it's inaccurate to characterize it as anything
    other than very expensive.

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  18. Yep, it's expensive.

    It's high quality and low quantity with zero competition. Lots of
    expertise went into it, and probably some pretty expensive tooling. By
    all accounts, they SHOULD be expensive.

    I think over time, they may drop in price somewhat. Actually, they
    already have when you consider the fact that the upgraded KH Schlumpf
    hub is on par with the cost of what the first gen hubs cost at the
    initial release.

    I think we're used to some pretty cheap stuff that got that way because
    of very high volumes and cheap overseas labor. Even the voume of the
    most expensive Schimano group (Dura-Ace) is likely to be at least
    several orders of magnitude higher than Schlumpf hubs.

    The volume of these will never be high, and as Harper found out, cheap
    labor won't cut it on parts that require as high of a level precision
    as these do.

    Personally, I think the value is reasonable, and this hobbie is still
    relatively inexpensive (think car racing, boating, and horses). The
    more expensive bicycles can be $5k+++ but you'd have a hard time
    spending more than $2500 putting together the highest-end unicycle
    possible.

    If he was really making money hand over fist, surely some competition
    would emerge to take some of it over. I don't think we're going to see
    that anytime soon.

    I am thankful these hubs even exist, and to Florian for making it
    happen.

    --
    mscalisi

    Quoted message said:

    <> Unicycle for (reducing the) Buddha <><


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  19. dupe.

    --
    mscalisi

    Quoted message said:

    <> Unicycle for (reducing the) Buddha <><


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  20. mscalisi said:

    The volume of these will never be high, and as Harper found out, cheap
    labor won't cut it on parts that require as high of a level precision
    as these do.

    As Mike says, there presently is really very little market for these
    hubs. I hope Florian can make a profit. His parts are of exceptional
    quality and many of them are case hardened. His shifting mechanism is
    patented and it is the feature that makes it stand out from the first
    prototypes that Frank Bonsch and I built. The static shift hubs could
    be made domestically and sold for around $600 to $800. But now that
    shift on the fly exists and has been repeatedly proven to be possible,
    why would anyone want a static shift hub? Mike himself used it as a
    stepping stone to a superior system.

    mscalisi said:

    I am thankful these hubs even exist, and to Florian for making it
    happen.

    Hey, throw me a bone here.

    --
    harper

    -Greg Harper

    *jc is the only main man. there can be no other.*

    "The 20" is suboptimal for distance work." - mikefule
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