Hard Rubbish Bikes 101 - stuck stem

[DaveB]

I've started working on the frame I found recently for a SS. I need to
remove the stem but it is well and truly stuck. I've completely loosened
the bolt that holds it to the steerer and used a heap of RP7 but still
can't get it to move at all. I started to get brutal putting the
handlebar end into a vice and then using a big wrench to apply some
leverage to the forks (gotta love steel frames), but still no good. What
else can I try?

DaveB

 

[jim]

if you don't care about the paint you can use a blow torch - if its a brazed
frame dont go beyond cherry red - welded you can take it a bit hotter but
not much


"DaveB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've started working on the frame I found recently for a SS. I need to
> remove the stem but it is well and truly stuck. I've completely loosened
> the bolt that holds it to the steerer and used a heap of RP7 but still
> can't get it to move at all. I started to get brutal putting the handlebar
> end into a vice and then using a big wrench to apply some leverage to the
> forks (gotta love steel frames), but still no good. What else can I try?
>
> DaveB

 

[DaveB]

jim wrote:
> if you don't care about the paint you can use a blow torch - if its a brazed
> frame dont go beyond cherry red - welded you can take it a bit hotter but
> not much

Hmmm, don't have a blowtorch. Guess that means I have to get one.
Exxxxxxxxcellent.

DaveB "grateful for any other suggestions to buy new tools"

 

[dtmeister]

DaveB <[email protected]> wrote:
> jim wrote:
>> if you don't care about the paint you can use a blow torch - if its a brazed
>> frame dont go beyond cherry red - welded you can take it a bit hotter but
>> not much
>
> Hmmm, don't have a blowtorch. Guess that means I have to get one.
> Exxxxxxxxcellent.
>
> DaveB "grateful for any other suggestions to buy new tools"

Jobst (all bow) has some notes on this.

http://yarchive.net/bike/frozen_stem_remove.html


--
..dt

 

[Random Data]

On Sun, 21 May 2006 19:36:05 +1000, DaveB wrote:

> I've started working on the frame I found recently for a SS. I need to
> remove the stem but it is well and truly stuck. I've completely loosened
> the bolt that holds it to the steerer and used a heap of RP7 but still
> can't get it to move at all.

Put the bolt back in about 4 turns, so there's a bit of thread. Then give
it a thump - I'm guessing you've got a threaded steerer with a quill stem,
so this will loosen the wedge and let you pull it out. Maybe.

--
Dave Hughes | [email protected]
There are some things so serious you have to laugh at them. - Niels Bohr

 

[Terry Collins]

DaveB wrote:
> What else can I try?

Let it stand for a while.
Can you put it out in the sun for a week?
(yes, I'm hoping for rain)
that would be a gently heat treatment.

This is steel in steel or AL in steel?
I believe amomnia (sp?) works well to loosed LA/steel binding.

button line is to try and use the bolt to drag it out from the bottom.
goog luck. I've got one like that in the back shed atm.

Hmm, might tey OP's blowtorch treatment.
Oh wait, I already have.

Second round, I have to use up some LPG anyway.

 

[PiledHigher]

Stems are the only legitamate place to use a hammer on a bike, with the
stem bolt well loosened hit the stem straight down in line with the
steerer (use a block of wood on top of the stem to prevent damage).

 

[DaveB]

PiledHigher wrote:
> Stems are the only legitamate place to use a hammer on a bike,

WooHoo! I love hitting things with a hammer (about the only thing I mis
about renovating).

DaveB "just call me Whelan"

 

[Bleve]

PiledHigher wrote:
> Stems are the only legitamate place to use a hammer on a bike, with the
> stem bolt well loosened hit the stem straight down in line with the
> steerer (use a block of wood on top of the stem to prevent damage).

You've obviously never had to remove a very reluctant bottom bracket.

We've had times where we've had to put the BB in a vice, and turn the
bike. I **** you not ...

It's fun working on old shitters

 

[Gemma_k]

"DaveB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've started working on the frame I found recently for a SS. I need to
> remove the stem but it is well and truly stuck. I've completely loosened
> the bolt that holds it to the steerer and used a heap of RP7 but still
> can't get it to move at all.

Did you just undo the bolt a little bit and then tap the bolt down to
unwedge the wedge, or unbung the expander bung (as the case may be)? If
not, you're doing it wrong!
Until you can feel the wedge or bung loose in the tube the stem won't move
anywhere....
Only when that is loose should you think about blow torches, vices or
hammers!
Gemm

 

[DaveB]

Gemma_k wrote:
> Did you just undo the bolt a little bit and then tap the bolt down to
> unwedge the wedge, or unbung the expander bung (as the case may be)? If
> not, you're doing it wrong!

Yep tried that initially but no movement, but you make a good point. I
suspect then that it is the expander bit that is stuck. Any ideas on how
to unstuck it (think I need a bigger hammer ).

> Until you can feel the wedge or bung loose in the tube the stem won't move
> anywhere....
> Only when that is loose should you think about blow torches, vices or
> hammers!

It's never too early to think about blow torches, vices and hammers.

DaveB

 

[Andrew D]

"DaveB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've started working on the frame I found recently for a SS. I need to
> remove the stem but it is well and truly stuck. I've completely loosened
> the bolt that holds it to the steerer and used a heap of RP7 but still
> can't get it to move at all. I started to get brutal putting the handlebar
> end into a vice and then using a big wrench to apply some leverage to the
> forks (gotta love steel frames), but still no good. What else can I try?
>
> DaveB


DaveB,
Have a look from the underside, if the threaded part of the wedge/bung
is visible, you should be able to use the stem bolt from the underside to
"pull" out the wedge. You might need to make up a "bridge" drilled with a
clearance hole for the stem bolt and some oversize nuts/washers to get the
length right. (assuming the stem is inserted far enough, if it's not in very
far, this may not work). Put some rags or soft timber under the bridge to
protect the fork crown (it it's important)

Have you tried using RP7 etc from the underside and keeping the frame upside
down to allow gravity to wick in the RP7 for a few hours ? If you use this
method, stick the stem bolt back in to keep a "pool" of solvent above the
wedge/bung.

Another idea, loosen the headset, if it's old and been "operated" on by a
thug, it may have been forced "out of round" using a large wrench, or by
hamfisted cross-threading. Some of the old locknuts etc weren't very robust,
this may be pinching the top of the steerer tube and hence the stem

If you can afford to lose the stem, I'd cut it off with angle grinder using
an old cutting disc then you should be able to remove the fork after
removing the headset locknuts and work on it without having to deal with(or
damage) the frame. Watch out if the stem is an Al/ Alloy, will clog up any
new cutting/grinding disc with soft metal. You may be able to use drift (or
someone's borrowed sockets to use as a drift if you don't like them) to
punch out the recalcitrant wedge after the stem is decapitated. Steel ones
will have thinner walls than cast Al ones.

Andrew

&When all you have is hammer, every problem resembles a nail&

 

[Gemma_k]

"DaveB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Gemma_k wrote:
> > Did you just undo the bolt a little bit and then tap the bolt down to
> > unwedge the wedge, or unbung the expander bung (as the case may be)? If
> > not, you're doing it wrong!
>
> Yep tried that initially but no movement, but you make a good point. I
> suspect then that it is the expander bit that is stuck. Any ideas on how
> to unstuck it (think I need a bigger hammer ).
>
A bigger hammer is what you need. Until that sucker is moving you're not
going anywhere.
Someome else has suggested getting at it from the other end of the steerer
and 'unscrewing it' downwards, this has the same effect as using a bigger
hammer on the top bolt.
Have fun...
Gemma

 

[DaveB]

Gemma_k wrote:
> A bigger hammer is what you need. Until that sucker is moving you're not
> going anywhere.
> Someome else has suggested getting at it from the other end of the steerer
> and 'unscrewing it' downwards, this has the same effect as using a bigger
> hammer on the top bolt.
> Have fun...
> Gemma

Spent the last 30 mins getting brutal, and repeating "this will not beat
me, this will not beat me ...". But now getting the feeling it may beat
me. Hacksawed the stem off about an inch from where it enters the
forks(it was a POS that was always bound for the bin), removed the
forks, hacksawed "lines" down to where it meats the forks, put it in the
vice upside down and squeezed. Still won't budge. Drilled a hole through
it to get some leverage with an old screwdriver. Still won't budge. Put
the forks end in vice with wooden blocks then hit the stem with a
hammer, HARD! And a few more times for good measure. Still won't bloody
move. Retired in defeat for tonight. Sigh.

Will try the unscrew from the other end method tomorrow.

DaveB

 

[Humbug]

On 22/05/06 at 17:16:24 DaveB somehow managed to type:

<snip>

>
> Will try the unscrew from the other end method tomorrow.
>
> DaveB

Someone, I forget who, posted a link to some stuff from Jobst about
this problem. Among other things it explains why the brute force
methods won't work.

-------------------------------
Because aluminum expands with corrosion, you cannot loosen a
frozen stem by force.
-------------------------------
And
-------------------------------
Aluminum oxide formed is porous and hard and takes up
about twice the volume of the metal from which it is made. This is a
press fit with molecular interlocking that cannot be separated by
force and cannot be dissolved by chemical action in any reasonable
time without immersion in a hot bath. Even that is doubtful because
the area of attack is small and depth great.

-------------------------------

And how to get the remains of the offending stem out.

-------------------------------
The best solution is to saw off the stem, drill out to as close to the
steer tube as possible and use a Dremel tool to grind it through on
one side.
--------------------------------

Can you get a hacksaw blade down the remains of the stem ? If you can
then cut a slot in the stem which will release a lot of the pressure
and you _should_ be able to get it out without a whole heap of force.

Found it - here's the link from dtmeister
http://yarchive.net/bike/frozen_stem_remove.html

--

Humbug
Today is Boomtime, the 69th day of Discord in the YOLD 3172

 

[Peter Signorini]

"DaveB" wrote:
>
> Spent the last 30 mins getting brutal, and repeating "this will not beat
> me, this will not beat me ..."....

<snip>

>Still won't bloody move. Retired in defeat for tonight. Sigh.
>
> Will try the unscrew from the other end method tomorrow.

Think it may be more dire than that! Be sure to read Jobst Brandt's notes on
this problem:
http://yarchive.net/bike/frozen_stem_remove.html

In all likelihood it's time to find a friend who's handy with a drill and
dremel. Then you can at least save the forks.

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

 

[DaveB]

Humbug wrote:
>
> Someone, I forget who, posted a link to some stuff from Jobst about
> this problem. Among other things it explains why the brute force
> methods won't work.
>
> -------------------------------
> Because aluminum expands with corrosion, you cannot loosen a
> frozen stem by force.
> -------------------------------
> And
> -------------------------------
> Aluminum oxide formed is porous and hard and takes up
> about twice the volume of the metal from which it is made. This is a

Steel stem (tested with a magnet earlier tonight).

daveB

 

[Humbug]

On 22/05/06 at 18:13:23 DaveB somehow managed to type:

<snip>
>
> Steel stem (tested with a magnet earlier tonight).

Well that'll make it a bit easier but not much. The same deal applies
but to a lesser degree.

If you can get a slot cut down the length of the stem remains you
_should_ be able to lever the rest out with a combination of an old
nearly dead screwdriver and a couple of yards of knuckle skin.


--

Humbug
Today is Boomtime, the 69th day of Discord in the YOLD 3172

 

[Terry Collins]

DaveB wrote:

> Steel stem (tested with a magnet earlier tonight).

but is the wedge steel?

 

[DaveB]

Terry Collins wrote:
> DaveB wrote:
>
>
>>Steel stem (tested with a magnet earlier tonight).
>
>
> but is the wedge steel?

I get the feeling at this stage I'll never know.

DaveB