Hard Rubbish Bikes 101 - stuck stem

[Terry Collins]

DaveB wrote:

> I get the feeling at this stage I'll never know.

Oh bugger, I was hoping you'd solve it first.

I have a hard fill frame in the back shed with the exact same problem.
It currently has the bolt sticking out the bottom and is slowly
distorting a 3" piece of water pipe as it tries to extract the wedge.

 

[Resound]

DaveB wrote:

> I get the feeling at this stage I'll never know.

Oh bugger, I was hoping you'd solve it first.

I have a hard fill frame in the back shed with the exact same problem.
It currently has the bolt sticking out the bottom and is slowly
distorting a 3" piece of water pipe as it tries to extract the wedge.

With the top of the stem cut off, would you be able to help the process alongwith a pin punch/drift?

 

[DaveB]

Terry Collins wrote:
> DaveB wrote:
>
>
>>I get the feeling at this stage I'll never know.
>
>
> Oh bugger, I was hoping you'd solve it first.
>
> I have a hard fill frame in the back shed with the exact same problem.
> It currently has the bolt sticking out the bottom and is slowly
> distorting a 3" piece of water pipe as it tries to extract the wedge.

I haven't given up yet. Just working out what the next level of
brutality is. I'l give up when:
a) the stem comes out
or b) the fork is totalled.

DaveB

 

[DaveB]

Terry Collins wrote:
> DaveB wrote:
>
>
>>I get the feeling at this stage I'll never know.
>
>
> Oh bugger, I was hoping you'd solve it first.
>
> I have a hard fill frame in the back shed with the exact same problem.
> It currently has the bolt sticking out the bottom and is slowly
> distorting a 3" piece of water pipe as it tries to extract the wedge.

Haven't given up yet but getting close now. Managed to get bottom wedge
moving through sticking the bolt up the steerer. And with that loose it
was easy to drop the bolt down and lossen the top wedge. So with both
parts of the wedge loose the only thing left that is stuck is the stem.
Brute force and mutilation is getting nowhere. I drowned it in CRC
tonight and will have another crack tomorrow then might go the blowtorch
option (is CRC flammable).

DaveB

 

[TimC]

On 2006-05-22, Bleve (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
> PiledHigher wrote:
>> Stems are the only legitamate place to use a hammer on a bike, with the
>> stem bolt well loosened hit the stem straight down in line with the
>> steerer (use a block of wood on top of the stem to prevent damage).
>
> You've obviously never had to remove a very reluctant bottom bracket.
>
> We've had times where we've had to put the BB in a vice, and turn the
> bike. I **** you not ...

How many N-m torque is that?

--
TimC
TELESCOPE, n.
A device having a relation to the eye similar to that of the
telephone to the ear, enabling distant objects to plague us with a
multitude of needless details. Luckily it is unprovided with a bell
summoning us to the sacrifice.
-- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"

 

[Resound]

"TimC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2006-05-22, Bleve (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>>
>> PiledHigher wrote:
>>> Stems are the only legitamate place to use a hammer on a bike, with the
>>> stem bolt well loosened hit the stem straight down in line with the
>>> steerer (use a block of wood on top of the stem to prevent damage).
>>
>> You've obviously never had to remove a very reluctant bottom bracket.
>>
>> We've had times where we've had to put the BB in a vice, and turn the
>> bike. I **** you not ...
>
> How many N-m torque is that?
>
Depends how far from the BB you grab the frame and how hard you heave. Half
a metre from the BB and 300N of force et voila, 150Nm of torque.

 

[Peter Signorini]

"DaveB" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Haven't given up yet but getting close now. Managed to get bottom wedge
> moving through sticking the bolt up the steerer. And with that loose it
> was easy to drop the bolt down and lossen the top wedge.

Top wedge? Assuming that you are working on a standard quill stem, then it
should only have one wedge, at the bottom, like in this:
http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30&action=details&sku=SM1200

If the wedge at the bottom is free the stem should come out. If it doesn't
then the stem is probably rusted in place. CRC bath sounds like a very good
idea. :-}

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

 

[Rory Williams]

Terry Collins wrote:
> DaveB wrote:
>
>
>>I get the feeling at this stage I'll never know.
>
>
> Oh bugger, I was hoping you'd solve it first.
>
> I have a hard fill frame in the back shed with the exact same problem.
> It currently has the bolt sticking out the bottom and is slowly
> distorting a 3" piece of water pipe as it tries to extract the wedge.

Haven't given up yet but getting close now. Managed to get bottom wedge
moving through sticking the bolt up the steerer. And with that loose it
was easy to drop the bolt down and lossen the top wedge. So with both
parts of the wedge loose the only thing left that is stuck is the stem.
Brute force and mutilation is getting nowhere. I drowned it in CRC
tonight and will have another crack tomorrow then might go the blowtorch
option (is CRC flammable).

DaveB

I don't understand the second wedge. Odd. Some quills have a wedge, some a truncated cone expander. If either is loose it should drop down, and possibly through the crown of rhe fork and out. However, the steerer tube may have been pinned into the crown for brazing (if it is an older frame) and that may be stopping it. If you can get the cone/expander out you may be able to thread a drift up the steerer from below, and use it to apply some force to the stem. but you need to be sure the force isn't acting on a cone/expander as it just fixes it all together harder

Heat is good. My most sucessful application was to remove a fused in pedal axle from an aluminium crank arm. Dismantled the pedal and heated the end gently over the stove then rushed back to the vice.

RoryW

 

[DaveB]

Rory Williams wrote:
>
>
> I don't understand the second wedge. Odd. Some quills have a wedge,

No you're right I think I was just screwing the bolt into the one wedge
from above and below. Didn't realise this till I looked at an old quill
stem sitting on the bench.

>
> Heat is good. My most sucessful application was to remove a fused in
> pedal axle from an aluminium crank arm. Dismantled the pedal and
> heated the end gently over the stove then rushed back to the vice.
>

Are you married Rory, I'm not sure my wife will appreciate me working on
the bike on the kitchen stove.

DaveB

 

[Parbs]

DaveB wrote:

> Are you married Rory, I'm not sure my wife will appreciate me working on
> the bike on the kitchen stove.
>

Do it when she's out... What she doesn't know can't hurt you.

 

[monsterman]

Are you married Rory, I'm not sure my wife will appreciate me working on
the bike on the kitchen stove.

DaveB

BBQ??

 

[Rory Williams]

Rory Williams wrote:
>
>
> I don't understand the second wedge. Odd. Some quills have a wedge,

No you're right I think I was just screwing the bolt into the one wedge
from above and below. Didn't realise this till I looked at an old quill
stem sitting on the bench.

>

If you can get a bolt into the wedge from below you could get a slide hammer (or a sustitute) onto it and extract it, or put something with a hole across the underside of the crown and tighten the bolt against it to extract it.

Are you married Rory, I'm not sure my wife will appreciate me working on
the bike on the kitchen stove.
DaveB

Oh yes. It wasn't a large bit of bike, I try to be discrete. I think after almost 15 years she has gotten used to my various foibles. (but I don't think I try it on our new stove.

For clean aluminium parts one can take advantage of 100 degree water to expand a part to ease the way when pushing a bearing in or out quite effectively. When fused a bit more is required

RoryW

 

[DaveB]

DaveB wrote:
> I haven't given up yet. Just working out what the next level of
> brutality is. I'l give up when:
> a) the stem comes out
> or b) the fork is totalled.
>
> DaveB

Alas I think it is time to give up. Tried the blowtorch option but still
can't get the bloody thing to move. Oh well, guess I better find a cheap
replacement fork. Any suggestions? Bicycle Recycle, CERES, Peter Moore??

DaveB

 

[Resound]

"DaveB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> DaveB wrote:
>> I haven't given up yet. Just working out what the next level of brutality
>> is. I'l give up when:
>> a) the stem comes out
>> or b) the fork is totalled.
>>
>> DaveB
>
> Alas I think it is time to give up. Tried the blowtorch option but still
> can't get the bloody thing to move. Oh well, guess I better find a cheap
> replacement fork. Any suggestions? Bicycle Recycle, CERES, Peter Moore??
>
> DaveB

Abbotsford Cycles

 

[TimC]

On 2006-06-03, Resound (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>
> "DaveB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> DaveB wrote:
>>> I haven't given up yet. Just working out what the next level of brutality
>>> is. I'l give up when:
>>> a) the stem comes out
>>> or b) the fork is totalled.
>>
>> Alas I think it is time to give up. Tried the blowtorch option but still

Damn.

>> can't get the bloody thing to move. Oh well, guess I better find a cheap
>> replacement fork. Any suggestions? Bicycle Recycle, CERES, Peter Moore??
>
> Abbotsford Cycles

Perhaps take the whole thing into Abbotsford to get them to check that
you didn't miss something "obvious".

--
TimC
Speaker: They used an alcohol fog to visualize what's happening.
From the audience: That's always worked for me. -- From an astronomy talk

 

[DaveB]

Hurrah, I bloody well did it. The stem from hell is finally out of the fork.

After drilling, cutting and applying some serious heat the old stem was
totally "forked". But when I hit it with a hammer there was the
slightest movement so I thought I was in with a chance.
http://flickr.com/photos/22133260@N00/173226037/in/photostream/

I seem to recall someone on a.b being apalled at my use of multigrips in
bike maintenance but this time I went for the ultimate multigrips and
other implements of destruction.
http://flickr.com/photos/22133260@N00/173226035/in/photostream/

After about 30 mins I finally got it out. Here it is (still bloody hot).
http://flickr.com/photos/22133260@N00/173226038/in/photostream/

Now that I've got the stem out I've got a new problem. The stem I was
going to replace it with is a different size. The stem from the fork has
21 stamped on the wedge, but the stem I was going to use has 22. Is 21
an unusual size. A quick browse of online bike shops didn't show much
with most measurements being length, not diameter. Anyone got an old
stem of this size lying around?

daveB

 

[Shane Stanley]

In article <[email protected]>,
DaveB <[email protected]> wrote:

> The stem from the fork has
> 21 stamped on the wedge, but the stem I was going to use has 22. Is 21
> an unusual size.


There's a table of sizes here, if it's any help: <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_st-z.html>

--
Shane Stanley