Head rests and M5 seats

I am confused by this headrest business. I tried one many a long year ago and found it made my head
vibrate enough to blur my vision. I've never felt any need for one on the Baron - I've just got a
small piece of foam glued to the tailbox behind my neck for a little extra comfort over the bumps.

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
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I have a M5 CF headrest on my Reynolds T-Bone Dual 650. It doesn't work well for me. I used it for
nearly a year. The design doesn't work well when wearing a helmet. But my major problem is road
vibration. The headrest picks up every bit of road vibration. Save your money and adjust your seat
where you don't need it. I don't use one on my Aero and it is very comfortable for me.

BentMick

[email hidden] (Don) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I did a search and found nothing very useful. I just put a CF-M5 on my custom Giro. To ride it
reclined enough to not fall off the almost nonexistant bottom, I will need a headrest.

I know Optima makes one but it is as heavy as a brick. Kind of defeats one benefit of the M5.
I would appreciate hearing all experience with headrests including ride experience, vendors,
DIY ideas.

Thanks, Don

Don, When you find one, let me know. I fabricated one out of a short piece of vinyl downspout and
wrapped the top with a fleece material for cusioning. It actually didn't look too bad and of course
it was light. I found that I only actually rested my head when riding with my wife and coasting
(while she peddaled fiercely) but I never installed it on my new (larger) seat. Mark

The answer to this problem is at least two part.

First: When you begin to ride in a very reclined position ( approaching 30 degrees) your neck
muscles DO protest vigorously. Much of this goea away with conditioning (Just riding that way) After
a week or less, much of the percieved strain in gone.

Second: The fit of the seat to you. This one is not given much attention. Are you big? Get a large.
Are you Small, get a small. etc. In reality, there is some distance from your Butt to the nape of
your neck, that should match the seat for optimum comfort. No one knows, or will admit to knowing,
what to measure and how to measure it. When I made a seat, I asked and got no replies beyond try it
out and change if not happy. With an accessory costing hundreds, this isn't much of an option.

Third: The vibration thing and helmet interference are real. I have found that a foam pad, tailored
to fit you, giving some support at the base of the skull/top of the nape of the neck, gives the best
results. I still end up looking "down my nose" more than I like, and when the sun is high I have to
wear a cap under my helmet.

Hope this helps.

--
Miles of Smiles,

Tom Blum Winter Haven, Florida Homebuilts: SWB Tour Easy Clone Speed Machine Clone High Racer Clone
www.gate.net/~teblum

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

BentMick, As far as repositioning the seat. If I don't lean the darn M5, I slide off but my shorts
don't. This results in a supreme wedgie that would be envied by any DF rider. The seat has to be
reclined but I am trying for the minimum. Even at the minimum, my neck suffers. I looked at the M5
CF headrest and realized it would not work. The CF seat is rough riding and noisey, I can't imagine
what it would be like as a headrest also. I was hoping the round, foam ones like Optima makes would
be better and also work with a helmet.

John, Dave---which style did you use that caused too much vibration? I was hoping the foam was soft
enough to be a shock absorber. Maybe that was wishful thinking. It looks like I will have to throw
the CF seat in the trash where it belongs and put my Bacchetta mesh seat back on. Don

Thanks Tom, I am not sure I can last long enough on the M5 to get my neck used to it. How do you get
used to the top poking you in the spine? Anyway, Bacchetta only has one size seat.

"Tom Blum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

The answer to this problem is at least two part.

First: When you begin to ride in a very reclined position ( approaching 30 degrees) your neck
muscles DO protest vigorously. Much of this goea away with conditioning (Just riding that way)
After a week or less, much of the percieved strain in gone.

Second: The fit of the seat to you. This one is not given much attention. Are you big? Get a
large. Are you Small, get a small. etc. In reality, there is some distance from your Butt to the
nape of your neck, that should match the seat for optimum comfort. No one knows, or will admit to
knowing, what to measure and how to measure it. When I made a seat, I asked and got no replies
beyond try it out and change if not happy. With an accessory costing hundreds, this isn't much of
an option.

Third: The vibration thing and helmet interference are real. I have found that a foam pad,
tailored to fit you, giving some support at the base of the skull/top of the nape of the neck,
gives the best results. I still end up looking "down my nose" more than I like, and when the sun
is high I have to wear a cap under my helmet.

Hope this helps.

--
Miles of Smiles,

Tom Blum Winter Haven, Florida Homebuilts: SWB Tour Easy Clone Speed Machine Clone High Racer
Clone www.gate.net/~teblum

Don said:

John, Dave---which style did you use that caused too much vibration? I was hoping the foam was
soft enough to be a shock absorber. Maybe that was wishful thinking. It looks like I will have to
throw the CF seat in the trash where it belongs and put my Bacchetta mesh seat back on. Don

Maybe you should throw that old useless seat my way so I can dispose of it for you. Yeah, dispose of
it for you - that's the ticket!!!

Mine is just a strip of cf material, maybe 2 layers, about 2.5 inches wide. I got a 3 inch length of
pool noodle (closed cell stuff) and slit it, then put it over the exposed end of the cf and glued it
in place. It reaches to just below my helmet. There's some bounce to it, but you would have to use
*very* soft foam to get rid of road vibrations. Also, I find riding with my head fixed in place to
be very distracting.
--

John Foltz --- O _ Baron --- _O _ V-Rex 24 --- _\\/\-%)
_________(_)`=()___________________(_)= (_)_____

Don,

don't throw it in the trash - send it to me. I'll even pay the postage! What size is it by the way?

George

Quoted message said:

It looks like I will have to throw the CF seat in the trash where it belongs and put my Bacchetta
mesh seat back on. Don

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am confused by this headrest business. I tried one many a long year ago and found it made my
head vibrate enough to blur my vision. I've never

felt

Quoted message said:

any need for one on the Baron - I've just got a small piece of foam glued

to

Quoted message said:

the tailbox behind my neck for a little extra comfort over the bumps.

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

I only use mine when I'm resting or stopped, I have the same experience as you if using it more than
that although I'd rather have the thing anyway

Don, As it is with ANY SEAT they just don't work for some people. Some seem to get it in their head
that since a seat is uncomfortable for them it must be for most others. Or visa versa. I just traded
a standard seat for an M5 (Corsa)...customer was uncomfortable on the M5....siatic nerve issue. Last
year I loaned a customer my spare M5 seat and she rode it for a month on her Giro. She now has an
M5. This was a tailbone issue with the stock seat. She says the M5 relieved the problem. As you can
see there a more than enough takers out there for the M5. With the exception of the AERO its nice
that the Bacchetta's can use either seat. Currently not so with the Volae.
--
Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and Sports,
Inc 1-800-586-6645 "Don" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thanks Tom, I am not sure I can last long enough on the M5 to get my neck used to it. How do you
get used to the top poking you in the spine? Anyway, Bacchetta only has one size seat.

"Tom Blum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The answer to this problem is at least two part.

First: When you begin to ride in a very reclined position ( approaching

30

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

degrees) your neck muscles DO protest vigorously. Much of this goea away with conditioning (Just
riding that way) After a week or less, much of

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

percieved strain in gone.

Second: The fit of the seat to you. This one is not given much

attention.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Are you big? Get a large. Are you Small, get a small. etc. In reality,

there

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is some distance from your Butt to the nape of your neck, that should

match

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the seat for optimum comfort. No one knows, or will admit to knowing,

what

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to measure and how to measure it. When I made a seat, I asked and got no replies beyond try it
out and change if not happy. With an accessory

costing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hundreds, this isn't much of an option.

Third: The vibration thing and helmet interference are real. I have

found

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that a foam pad, tailored to fit you, giving some support at the base of

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

skull/top of the nape of the neck, gives the best results. I still end

up

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

looking "down my nose" more than I like, and when the sun is high I have

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wear a cap under my helmet.

Hope this helps.

--
Miles of Smiles,

Tom Blum Winter Haven, Florida Homebuilts: SWB Tour Easy Clone Speed Machine Clone High Racer
Clone www.gate.net/~teblum

[email hidden] (Don) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I did a search and found nothing very useful. I just put a CF-M5 on my custom Giro. To ride it
reclined enough to not fall off the almost nonexistant bottom, I will need a headrest.

I know Optima makes one but it is as heavy as a brick. Kind of defeats one benefit of the M5.
I would appreciate hearing all experience with headrests including ride experience, vendors,
DIY ideas.

Thanks, Don

Don,

I own a M5 Shock Proof, which I ride with the seat in the full 23 degree recline. I do not use, or
need, a head rest. However, you can not become accustomed to the M5 seat all at one go. It takes
weeks to adapt to what is admittedly an extreme and unnatural position. Start with 10 mile, or even
5 mile rides, if necessary. Persevere, and you'll soon get the hang of it. Then your only problem
will be getting the thick-witted buffons on the DF bikes to get the hell out of the way as you
plunge down hill at near terminal velocity.

I keep riding the M5 to give it a fair chance. I know some love the seat. I also know it is not for
everybody. My last two rides have been with the seat fully reclined on the stays and the seat
bracket about 3/4" behind the chain idler bracket.

32 miles yesterday and today I have a headache and pain between my shoulders where the seat top hit.
Also, my middle back is sore. Nothing debilitating. Need to give it some more miles. Glad it is
going to rain today so I do not have to feel guilty for not getting back on the horse. Don

"Tom Blum" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

The answer to this problem is at least two part.

Quoted message said:

Second: The fit of the seat to you. This one is not given much attention. Are you big? Get a
large. Are you Small, get a small. etc. In reality, there is some distance from your Butt to the
nape of your neck, that should match the seat for optimum comfort. No one knows, or will admit to
knowing, what to measure and how to measure it. When I made a seat, I asked and got no replies
beyond try it out and change if not happy. With an accessory costing hundreds, this isn't much of
an option.

Tom Blum

This is definately right and I am surprised that Bacchetta does not have several sizes. I had an
Optima Baron which has a recline of ~20 degree. I first had a "Large[1]" seat and had trouble
supporting my head. I determine that the upturn at the top of the seat was too far from the base. So
I got a "Medium[1]" seat which was much more comfortable. I had ordered a head rest with the bike
but after getting the correct size seat I found no need for it. The M5 seat does not appear to have
as much or an upturn at the top and so maybe a little more difficult to get comfortable. The Swanson
seat looks to be pretty well designed though I can't figure out why his seat is wider in the waist
where the least weight is supported.

Craig

[1] The Dutch must be a very tall people as of the three sizes "M", "L", "XL" at 6'2" normal
proportioned I fit best on the smallest seat ("M"😉. What size is the person who fits best on the
"XL" seat?

cbb said:

...
[1] The Dutch must be a very tall people as of the three sizes "M", "L", "XL" at 6'2" normal
proportioned I fit best on the smallest seat ("M"😉. What size is the person who fits best on
the "XL" seat?

I have read that on average, the Dutch are the tallest people in Europe. For sizing M5 seats, keep
in mind that M5 designer/proprietor Bram Moens is about ~2 meters (~6' 6"😉 tall.

Tom Sherman - Recumbent Pedant

"Don't Have a Cow, Man!" - Bart Simpson

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

cbb said:

...
[1] The Dutch must be a very tall people as of the three sizes "M", "L", "XL" at 6'2" normal
proportioned I fit best on the smallest seat ("M"😉. What size is the person who fits best on
the "XL" seat?

I have read that on average, the Dutch are the tallest people in Europe. For sizing M5 seats, keep
in mind that M5 designer/proprietor Bram Moens is about ~2 meters (~6' 6"😉 tall.

Tom Sherman - Recumbent Pedant

"Don't Have a Cow, Man!" - Bart Simpson

That would explain why the dealer who sold me my Baron said he always has to cut at least 2 inches
off the boom

Mark Leuck said:

That would explain why the dealer who sold me my Baron said he always has to cut at least 2 inches
off the boom

Quite. I'm 6'3" and Darth Ian had to saw a chunk of my Baron's boom. How Messrs. English and
Whittingham got their pedals close enough is a question for finer minds than mine...

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

cbb said:

...
[1] The Dutch must be a very tall people as of the three sizes "M", "L", "XL" at 6'2" normal
proportioned I fit best on the smallest seat ("M"😉. What size is the person who fits best on
the "XL" seat?

I have read that on average, the Dutch are the tallest people in Europe. For sizing M5 seats, keep
in mind that M5 designer/proprietor Bram Moens is about ~2 meters (~6' 6"😉 tall.

Tom Sherman - Recumbent Pedant

"Don't Have a Cow, Man!" - Bart Simpson

I suppose that is because all the short Dutch people drown every time one of their dykes give way.
Only the truly tall Dutch live to pass on their DNA. If Darwin had only gone to Holland he could
have spared himself a rather long and arduous trip to the Galapagos Islands.

Dave Larrington said:

Mark Leuck said:

That would explain why the dealer who sold me my Baron said he always has to cut at least 2
inches off the boom

Quite. I'm 6'3" and Darth Ian had to saw a chunk of my Baron's boom. How Messrs. English and
Whittingham got their pedals close enough is a question for finer minds than mine...

Here is a picture of a ~5 foot (~1.5m) tall rider on a Baron. (The seat on this bike has been moved
forward from the stock position.)

<http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/misc/BaronBarb-sm.jpg>

Tom Sherman - Recumbent Pedant

"Don't Have a Cow, Man!" - Bart Simpson

Steve in SC said:

If Darwin had only gone to Holland he could have > spared himself a rather

long and arduous trip to

Quoted message said:

the Galapagos Islands.

Possibly. Or one of the dykes might have given way, and drowned him...

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
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Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
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