hey bike dealer lets talk about price now ;-)



Ken M wrote:
> My point is that there are alway three different prices, the advertised
> or sticker price, the price they say they pay, and the real price they
> pay. And depending on the item you wish to purchase this can be a very
> small differnce or a very big difference.
>


I don't agree! First, you are mixing price (to the consumer) and cost
(to the dealer). And your assumption is that no one is honest. If they
are honest the latter two on your list will be the same.
 
It's not that they are being dishonest, but it's sort of like poker,
you don't want to tip your hand to the other players.

Ken
 
Well if you think all people / businesses are honest I am sorry for
you!

Ken

Pulling an ace out of a sleeve would be like trying to put "trek"
decals on a huffy!
 
Ken M wrote:
> Well if you think all people / businesses are honest I am sorry for
> you!
>


Of course I don't think ALL people are honest. But I do think MOST are.
I have always owned and run business' that extend credit. Most folks
pay their bills. That's honest.

Sad if you think no one is honest--which is what your statement implied.
 
I'm still having a problem with your mark up on accessories but even if
your 400% mark up is accurate you still need to sell a hell of a lot of
computers, water bottles and helmets to cover costs especially
considering how much time it takes to assemble, fit and set up a bike.

Then, factor in the seasonal aspects of cycling in much of the country
and I'm really surprised we have as many bikes shops as we do.

As far as dealer cost is concerned, ultimatley that is really none of
the consumer's business. Car dealers like to trumpet that tired old
sales ploy (and their 'cost' is never the real cost) and it's really a
shame that it's helped to condition people to think that it's some
point of pride to hammer a dealer out of a reasonable profit.

I wonder how these shoppers would feel if their employer came up and
said they can find someone to do their job for a fraction of the cost.
.. . .oh wait, they do.

I guess our appetite for a bargain is starting to take a toll.
 
>I think you are wrong on the number of small ticket items vs the big
> ticket items. Take the cyclo computer for instance. I am sure that they
> sell 10 of these a week. While they probably only sell 3 or 4 bikes per
> week. So if they are only $45 per bike and only selling 3 or 4 a week
> that only $180 a week. And if the computer costs the shop $10 and he
> sells them for $40 and sells 10 a week, thats $300 gross profit on the
> computers.


Ken: I won't tell you what our margin is on our most-profitable bicycle
computer, but I *will* tell you that it is less than a 50% margin. In other
words, if we bought it for $25, if would sell for less than $50. Absolutely
guaranteed honest-to-goodness truth. There is simply no way, in a
competitive retail environment, that a shop could mark up a bike computer in
the manner you suggest. Somebody down the street would sell it for less, and
still make money. And then somebody else would come in and sell it for even
less, and so on down the line, until you reach the point where there's no
profit left and people go out of business.

But this ignores the other reality, which is that we're not just pricing to
make profit on an individual item, but also to be competitive with
mail-order operations, where the barrier to entry is EVEN LESS than for a
retail shop. So their incentive to price closer to cost is even greater,
which brings down the maximum price that I could charge even more.

Please don't make assumptions about the bicycle business based upon how
things work elsewhere. There may be some parallels, but there are also
significant differences. And from the information you have at hand, I'd say
there are *very* significant differences between the bicycle and
office-supply biz. My guess is that the bicycle business is heavily
populated by people who really love bicycles (which is generally a good
thing) and probably don't have a huge amount of business savvy. The office
supply biz, I'll bet, is the opposite. And that might explain why things are
so different in your world and mine.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"Ken M" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I think you are wrong on the number of small ticket items vs the big
> ticket items. Take the cyclo computer for instance. I am sure that they
> sell 10 of these a week. While they probably only sell 3 or 4 bikes per
> week. So if they are only $45 per bike and only selling 3 or 4 a week
> that only $180 a week. And if the computer costs the shop $10 and he
> sells them for $40 and sells 10 a week, thats $300 gross profit on the
> computers.
>
> About starting with $20million if you want it to be worth $10million in
> five years. Best not to start the business in the first place!
>
> Ken
>
 
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote in part:

> > I don't know about whole bikes, but I know the markup on my new frame/fork
> > was pretty steep. I paid $1100 with a paint upgrade, and the invoice I saw
> > was for about half that.

>
> I'll have what your dealer's having! Perhaps if it were a lesser-known brand
> the dealer could make that much money, but for name-brands, the markups
> aren't even close to that. ....


I usually hang on every word Mike J writes around
here, but hmmmm.... Come on, MJ.

Everybody knows the "pro deal" is 50-60% of retail.

R
 
"Ken M" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Much the same when I sold new cars. The "price" they advertise, the
> "price" they say is invoice, and the real "price" they pay are much
> different. Retail businesses typically mark up the price about 200 to
> 300% so there is a lot of wiggle room. However not to many business
> will admit to this practice.
>
> Ken
>
> P.S. I also worked for a wholesale supplier at one time.


Well, you apparently know nothing about the automobile business. Invoice is
pretty much a publicly known figure and dealer holdback is rarely given up,
the only real factor is dealer incentives which the is not that hard to get
a hold of, simply look at a copy of Automotive News.

200-300% markup is typical only for the very high end trade, and items like
the jewelry business or haute couture. Surely you can't think that a $60
Deore rder has a dealer cost of $20 or that a Trek entry level 820 bike has
a dealer cost of $80.
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote in part:
>
>> > I don't know about whole bikes, but I know the markup on my new
>> > frame/fork
>> > was pretty steep. I paid $1100 with a paint upgrade, and the invoice I
>> > saw
>> > was for about half that.

>>
>> I'll have what your dealer's having! Perhaps if it were a lesser-known
>> brand
>> the dealer could make that much money, but for name-brands, the markups
>> aren't even close to that. ....

>
> I usually hang on every word Mike J writes around
> here, but hmmmm.... Come on, MJ.
>
> Everybody knows the "pro deal" is 50-60% of retail.
>
> R


Thanks for your input guys. I understand pretty well that I need to build a
good relationship with my LBS. I have no intention to haggle for hours. I
went back there today without my son to talk a little more with the owner
and to visit the shop.

That guy is great, very honest had nothing to hide, he his not pushing at
all. Its a 30 years old business, well mainatined clean and organised. I
will recommend this shop to my son, furthermore the price could not be beat
by the competition.

One thing tough, I will pay the man what he wants for the bike but I will
try to save my son's money on accessories. Just for fun, no confrontation,
just for the fun of it, without insisting too much
 
Rick wrote:
> Thanks for your input guys. I understand pretty well that I need to build a
> good relationship with my LBS. I have no intention to haggle for hours. I
> went back there today without my son to talk a little more with the owner
> and to visit the shop.
>
> That guy is great, very honest had nothing to hide, he his not pushing at
> all. Its a 30 years old business, well mainatined clean and organised. I
> will recommend this shop to my son, furthermore the price could not be beat
> by the competition.


If your son really likes the bike, I suggest getting
a frame that is just a little bit too large so he can
grow into it and even past it a bit. That's one of the
nice things about bikes, there is a bit of leeway
there for a growing youngster, ya just raise the seat
as you grow. I'm still riding the frame I bought at
my local LBS when I was your son's age, 20 years later.

Robert
 
[email protected] wrote:
> Rick wrote:
> > Thanks for your input guys. I understand pretty well that I need to build a
> > good relationship with my LBS. I have no intention to haggle for hours. I
> > went back there today without my son to talk a little more with the owner
> > and to visit the shop.
> >
> > That guy is great, very honest had nothing to hide, he his not pushing at
> > all. Its a 30 years old business, well mainatined clean and organised. I
> > will recommend this shop to my son, furthermore the price could not be beat
> > by the competition.

>
> If your son really likes the bike, I suggest getting
> a frame that is just a little bit too large so he can
> grow into it and even past it a bit. That's one of the
> nice things about bikes, there is a bit of leeway
> there for a growing youngster, ya just raise the seat
> as you grow. I'm still riding the frame I bought at
> my local LBS when I was your son's age, 20 years later.
>
> Robert


I should add, my dad helped me buy that bike
like you're helping your son buy his. That's
about the coolest thing a dad can do.

Robert
 
Rick wrote:
> Thanks for your input guys. I understand pretty well that I need to
> build a good relationship with my LBS. I have no intention to haggle
> for hours. I went back there today without my son to talk a little
> more with the owner and to visit the shop.
>
> That guy is great, very honest had nothing to hide, he his not
> pushing at all. Its a 30 years old business, well mainatined clean
> and organised. I will recommend this shop to my son, furthermore the
> price could not be beat by the competition.
>
> One thing tough, I will pay the man what he wants for the bike but I
> will try to save my son's money on accessories. Just for fun, no
> confrontation, just for the fun of it, without insisting too much


Check the shop's ads or flyers. Lots of places will offer 10 or whatever %
off on accessories purchased at the same time as a new bike, along with free
minor tuneups for a month, year, or even life. Higher-end bikes can come
with $100 in accessories, but only now and then.

Like others have said, if you've found a shop you like and trust, then
that's worth much more than X amount of dollars.

Hope your son likes his new ride!

Bill S.
 
Well I will bet you that you have a lot of competition. And that WILL
put a damper on your ability to mark up items. I will not argue with
that. However if you had little or no competition. You could mark your
merch up considerable and people would pay the price.

And I will agree with you again, about the mail order, and the web
store competition. Many people will point and click. And however you
have an advantage over this because people like myself like to be able
to feel, touch and see certain items before they buy. This is your
oportunity to hook them, so to speak.

And I am sure there are big differences between the business suppy
business, and the bike business, but I am sure there are many
similarities as well. Some of which you probably don't want to admit
to.

Ken
 
I don't think all people are dishonest, but the majority will take
advantage of a buyer to make extra profit.

Ken
 
well perhaps the mark up in the bike business is not as high as in the
business supply business, but I still think it is higher than most LBS
owners will admit to.

and about the seasonal thing, you are right on that one. Your LBS is
probably like a ghost town in Jan and Feb. And the owner has to use his
saved profit from June and July to pay the bills.

And you are right about people wanting a deal. Consumers feel they need
to get bottom line prices on everything. The last thing I bought from
the LBS was about $40 and I think that was a fair price for the items.
But I know that he probably made a nice profit from that sale.

Ken
 
Oh but I DO know about the car business. What I am saying is that
"invoice" maybe advertised a lot, but that is NOT what the dealer
"pays" for the car!! "Holdback" is what I think you are calling the
real price that the dealer pays. And incentives are a joke!

That Deore rder probably has a dealer cost of close to that $20 mark.
When purchased in certain multiples. I am not sure about the 820, I
have no clue what they are selling for, and I am not going to waste
time looking it up.

Ken
 
And then a holes like you wander in assuming that we make 400 % on a
giant hybrid. Then they waste 2 hours of time *****ing to save 10$ off
the retail price. Then they wonder dumbly why THEIR bike is the last
one to get fixed, or isnt quite as shiny as the nice non *****ing
customer's bike. Then later they wonder why the LBS is gone, replaced
by and antique mall, or an american girl doll store.

Get a clue dumb ass. MSRP is a pricing structure set partially to
insure that dealers can make money, survive and continue to provide
excellent service to their customers. I don't know why you feel the
need to "pay less" for something. Perhaps is because your LBS doesn't
do a good job representing their goods and services. Or perhaps it's
because you're a cheap *******. Hey, let's start out sourcing YOUR job
to hungy North Koreans that will sell office products for us via the
phone for 3 cents a month.. That will put it right in perspective for
you.
 
And then a holes like you wander in assuming that we make 400 % on a
giant hybrid. Then they waste 2 hours of time *****ing to save 10$ off
the retail price. Then they wonder dumbly why THEIR bike is the last
one to get fixed, or isnt quite as shiny as the nice non *****ing
customer's bike. Then later they wonder why the LBS is gone, replaced
by and antique mall, or an american girl doll store.

Get a clue dumb ass. MSRP is a pricing structure set partially to
insure that dealers can make money, survive and continue to provide
excellent service to their customers. I don't know why you feel the
need to "pay less" for something. Perhaps is because your LBS doesn't
do a good job representing their goods and services. Or perhaps it's
because you're a cheap *******. Hey, let's start out sourcing YOUR job
to hungy North Koreans that will sell office products for us via the
phone for 3 cents a month.. That will put it right in perspective for
you.
 
Note to self jackass. Profit is the reason business's are started. No
wait, I started my own business to work a lot and make no money.
ESPECIALLY from Ken M, who is the almighty one himself. We can never
make a profit on that guy. Ever. Never ever. Everything has to be sold
at cost. REAL Cost. Not that number that's on our invoices, the SECRET
number that no one knows about. You know, when the trek rep comes in
and tells us the OCLV's costs 2100$ this year, and we go, "C'mon," and
he goes "Ok, they only cost 1200 for you. See ya!".
 
Note to self jackass. Profit is the reason business's are started. No
wait, I started my own business to work a lot and make no money.
ESPECIALLY from Ken M, who is the almighty one himself. We can never
make a profit on that guy. Ever. Never ever. Everything has to be sold
at cost. REAL Cost. Not that number that's on our invoices, the SECRET
number that no one knows about. You know, when the trek rep comes in
and tells us the OCLV's costs 2100$ this year, and we go, "C'mon," and
he goes "Ok, they only cost 1200 for you. See ya!".