High 5-minute power; Increasing FTP?

Discussion in 'Power Training' started by Bullseye_blam, Jun 21, 2007.

  1. Alex Simmons

    Alex Simmons Member

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    I think you need to ask your coach as there may be various reasons for their approach.
     


  2. JibberJim

    JibberJim Member

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    I think it's pretty odd to base power workouts on anything but max power for that duration, as you say on the thread ratio of 5 minute to 1 hour power varies considerably, why would you use 1 hour power for deciding your 5 minute power targets?

    Personally I'd base everything on what I can achieve for the duration, and then adjust on if I could complete the workout or not the previous time I did it.

    I suspect your coach is just being lazy and cookie cutter on the approach, he might come up with some great reasoning.
     
  3. kclw

    kclw New Member

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  4. dkrenik

    dkrenik Member

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    I disagree. That's what a power meter is for: Test and experiment. If you're doing "x" minute intervals, do a "x" minute test and start out at 90% of your test value and adjust from there.

    Don't sweat the small stuff. If you're targeted wattage is too low or too high, simply adjust for the next workout. After all, it's only 1 workout.

    Dave
     
  5. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    +1. I think 90%MP is a good target power for training segments throughout the power-duration curve > 5secs. There is a volume vs. intensity tradeoff, so as intensity increases volume decreases. In this tradeoff, I favor volume over intensity.
     
  6. JibberJim

    JibberJim Member

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    My daily variation in maximal sub 5 minute is larger than 90% (due to motivation, whatever) so some days doing that target would make the effort maximal, or if the test wasn't on a maximal day it would make it potentially easy. Because of that daily variation I will always do efforts to PE, guided somewhat by the power obtained to help calibrate it.

    Also, the difference over those durations will be hugely dependant on terrain available.
     
  7. acoggan

    acoggan Member

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    'cause it's a good starting point:

    [​IMG]
    That said, as I wrote when introducing the training levels back in 2001: the ultimate reference is the power that the athlete has previously produced during similar recent workouts.
     
  8. JibberJim

    JibberJim Member

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    It might be a reasonable estimate if you only had 60 minute, but 5 minute power is correlated much better with 5 minute power than 60. It's pointless using it unless you've not got a clue what the 5 minute power is, which would be extremely unlikely, and easily remedied by a test.
     
  9. acoggan

    acoggan Member

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    And yet, training levels based on FTP have been widely adopted, e.g., by British Cycling...go figure!

    http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/membership/article/20120925-Power-Calculator-0
     
  10. An old Guy

    An old Guy Member

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    Quote:
    I see a couple calculators on that page. I don't see any claims supporting training at that levels. I don't see any claims that their training program is effective for the non-professional. I don't see any claims that one can train at those levels. Sort of worthless for information for training.

    Genetics indicates what level of training is best for an individual. Without genetic tests it is best to do 5 minute intervals and see what you can sustain and what benefits they provide. Most people will find better ways to train.
     
  11. acoggan

    acoggan Member

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    Both are based on this:

    http://lists.topica.com/lists/wattage/read/message.html?mid=901936066
     
  12. An old Guy

    An old Guy Member

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    This is not about how much you can pump yourself up.
     
  13. dhk2

    dhk2 Active Member

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    Saw an abstract on a recent study which looked at intervals as short as 30 seconds: Scandinavian Journal of Medicine & Science in Sports, Jan 2014). The all-out short intervals were compared with 5 min and 40 min all-out intervals in twice-weekly workouts over 10 weeks.

    Results were that the group that did the 30 second all-out intervals showed the most gains in max power output and VO2 max at the end of the training period. Perhaps someone (Dr. Coggan?) who has access to this journal can elaborate on the results.

    Believe the theory is that max intervals, even short ones, get our HR and breathing up to the point of oxygen debt. And it's this condition that stimulates the good adaptations in the mitochondria and cardio-vascular system.
     
  14. dkrenik

    dkrenik Member

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    Might want to read up on Veronique Billat's work. Billat promotes the numerous, shorter, "micro-interval" type of workouts for development of VO2max.
     
  15. westmixxin

    westmixxin New Member

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    I feel like I also need to increase the length of my rides as well because I feel as if I am not losing the amount of weight that I would like to. I also wish to increase my stamina greatly and I think that three-hour rides would definitely put me in a position to increase my stamina to the next level.
     
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