high carb, low fat, low protein = bad news



vlad

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page 22 Let's eat right to keep fit by Adelle Davis

a similar study was made at Harvard University by Dr Thorn and co-workers who determined blood sugar levels for six hours after meals high in carbohydrates.

A high-carbohydrate breakfast consisted of orange juice, bacon, toast, jelly, a packaged cereal and coffee, both with sugar and milk. The blood sugar rose rapidly but fell to an extremely low level, causing fatigue and inefficiency. A packaged cereal eaten only with whipping cream for the high-fat breakfast, after which the blood sugar inceased slightly, then remained at the fasting level throughout the morning.

The high protein meal consisted of skim milk, lean ground beef, and cottage cheese; the blood sugar rose to the high level of 120 milligrams and remained there throughout the entire following six hours.

To determine the effects of different types of food on energy production, metabolism tests were taken at fcrequent intervals. The metabolism, or energy production, increased only slightly after the meals high in fat or carbohydrate. After the high-protein meal, however , the metabolism rose more quickly than did the blood sugar and stayed high throughout the entire six hour study period.

p 23 sugar, cereals, hotcakes fruit, fruit juice quickly changes to sugar during digestion . in minutes blood sugar may increase from 80 to 155 milligrams ..stimulates pancreas to pour forth insulin; the insulin in turn causes the liver and muscles to withdraw sugar and store it as a form of sugar, or glycogen or change it into fat, thus preventing it being lost in urine. The tremendous amounts of sugar defeat the purpsoe for which sugar is needed -- to produce enegy efficiently. Too much sugar is withdrawn due to the oversupply of insulin; the result, ironically, is fatigue

p 24 in studies mentioned, efficiency for three hours was produced by only 22 grams or more of protein. Meals furnishing 55 grams protein sustained a high level of energy and a high metabolism for six hours afterward.


p35 "Let's eat right to keep fit" Adelle Davis

When you eat more protein than your body can use immediately, your liver withdraws amino acids from your blood and changes them temporarily into protein storage. As your cells use amino acids the supply is replenished from the breakdown of stored protein. As long as your diet is adeduate, the amount of amino acids in your blood is thereby kept relatively constant.

If you ignore your health to the extent of eating insufficient protein, the stored protein is quickly exhausted. From that time on, the less important body tissues are destroyed to free amino acids needed to rebuild more vital structures. Such a process can go on month after month, year after year. Your body continues to function after a fashion. Useen abnormalities set in because blood proteins, hormones, enzymes, and antibodies can no longer be formed in amounts needed. Muscles lose tone, wrinkles appear, aging creeps on , and you, my dear, are going to pot.

It is possible, though not probable, that you may eat more protein than your body needs. After the storage depots are filled, the leftover protein is changed by the liver into glucose and fat, the nitrogen being excreted in urine; the sugar and fat may be used immediately to produce energy or may be stored as fat. Proteins are also used to produce energy whenever too few other foods are eaten to produce calorie requirments.
 

2LAP

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Feb 22, 2002
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I'm not familiar with this book; but here's some comments on the inserts above:

PP - 22: Postprandial studies have many problems and their results should be applied causously. Not only are the meals described unphysiological and not ecologicaly valid, but they follow a fast (e.g. 12 hours of no food) and this study hasn't looked at the interaction of performance. High fat meals have a negative effect on postprandial lipoproteins (i.e. resulting in higher circulating triglycerides).

PP - 23: Insulin response is suppressed by exercise. Insulin release doesn't nesecarily result in fatigue or low blood sugar levels. Other sources of carbohydrate (e.g. complex carbs - whole grain bread, etc.) have very low insulin responses. Glucose in urine is a symptom of diabetes and not something that would be desirable. The insulin response to mixed meals with the same amount of carbs would have a much lower insulin response.

PP - 24: Not sure what this is mean't to meanparticularly for exercise; carbohydrates and fats are key substrates for muscular contractions.

PP - 35: True, some people eat insufficent protein however in western countries this is rarely the case. Proteins are usualy used to supply energy during starvation, or a small amount at the end of long races/training sessions. Carbohydrates can be metabolised at a higher rate and theirfore can sustain a higher rate of exercise, therefore its best to keep these topped up.

Eat a balanced diet, composed of healthy food choices.
 

supermuble

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Sep 27, 2004
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Studies have NOT found any evidence of protein affecting endurance. Infact the body was able to convert from almost a pure carbohydrate diet to a protein diet with no measurable change in endurance. This study was performed on conditioned cyclists. Though protein breakdown causes some acidic buildup in the muscles, it was not detrimental to muscle endurance, therefore carbohydrates are entirely a personal preference.
 

cside

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Sep 29, 2004
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I find this quite informative for racing, but can anyone help me with this?

I initially started riding for enjoyment and to lose weight, but alas the racing bug has bitten. So I have one or two races (read as rides) left and then I will return to base training and with that try lose more weight - it is cheaper than buying a lighter bike.

Anyway what foods / diets would aid weight loss but help maintain a high enough energy level to train sufficiently?

Thanks
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zaskar

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Aug 3, 2003
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cside said:
I find this quite informative for racing, but can anyone help me with this?

I initially started riding for enjoyment and to lose weight, but alas the racing bug has bitten. So I have one or two races (read as rides) left and then I will return to base training and with that try lose more weight - it is cheaper than buying a lighter bike.

Anyway what foods / diets would aid weight loss but help maintain a high enough energy level to train sufficiently?

Thanks
user_online.gif


All that matters for weight loss is, more energy spent then taken in no matter what you eat.
 

Mookis

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Sep 30, 2004
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I just wanted to quickly announce that there has been a new health forum created on the www.absoluteacneinfo.com website.

The new forum is called "Edgar Cayce Treatments" and it is FULL of awesome ways to improve your health from just about everything you can think of.

The website is absolutely free, and so is the membership.

I have personally seen this website affect countless members of that board. Trust me when I tell you that you don't want to miss this.

www. absoluteacneinfo.com - then click on skin care community - and see for yourself! =)
 

supermuble

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Sep 27, 2004
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zaskar said:
All that matters for weight loss is, more energy spent then taken in no matter what you eat.
Ummmm.... This would be true if you were eating little tiny bites of food all day... Unfortantely counting calories doesn't work as well as changing your diet.

What if you eat 1000 calories in one sitting? Your body cannot quickly burn this off and if your eating carbs then you raise your blood sugar, which in turn raises insulin. Insulin causes your muscle cells to pull some of the sugar in, the remaining blood sugar is too much for the body to handle so it converts it into fat where it is stored in the fat cells.

Counting calories works for people who measure every bite of the food they are eating. It is a precise method that doesn't offer much relaxation. I could never do it myself. You cannot eat large meals because this raises insulin and insulin stores fat.

A great alternative to measuring calories is to eat low sugar foods and eat smaller portions. This keeps insulin low, keeps your metabolism high and provides consistent energy. Simply avoid juice, sugary fruits and white bread. Refined sugar is just that - Refined. Its all wrong for an average body.
 

Smartt/RST

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Aug 9, 2004
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supermuble said:
Ummmm.... This would be true if you were eating little tiny bites of food all day... Unfortantely counting calories doesn't work as well as changing your diet.

What if you eat 1000 calories in one sitting? Your body cannot quickly burn this off and if your eating carbs then you raise your blood sugar, which in turn raises insulin. Insulin causes your muscle cells to pull some of the sugar in, the remaining blood sugar is too much for the body to handle so it converts it into fat where it is stored in the fat cells.

Counting calories works for people who measure every bite of the food they are eating. It is a precise method that doesn't offer much relaxation. I could never do it myself. You cannot eat large meals because this raises insulin and insulin stores fat.

A great alternative to measuring calories is to eat low sugar foods and eat smaller portions. This keeps insulin low, keeps your metabolism high and provides consistent energy. Simply avoid juice, sugary fruits and white bread. Refined sugar is just that - Refined. Its all wrong for an average body.
Actually, the post you are replying to is correct: calories in must be lower than calories out if you are going to loose weight, regardles of macronutrient composition. And eating 4-6 small meals/day is an excellent way to learn how to control total caloric intake as it trains your body to only accept small doses of food, thus avoiding the large meal and greater storage of excess calories (note: studies have shown that too many calories over the course of a day, whether in 6 small meals or 3 large meals, still results in weight gain - it's still calories in vs. calories out).
How you choose to accomplish this depends on your lifestyle, food preferences and available food choices. Yes, fasting and binging is not the way to go about loosing weight and there are certainly healthier food choices than others (eg: I think all would agree that we should try to avoid processed and high sugar foods). However, insulin is not the culpret for obesity/weight gain, regardless of what the popular diet authors would have you believe. The role that insulin plays in the body depends on many factors (eg: genetics, activity level) and is a highly desireable hormone for anyone who exercises on a regular basis.
 

supermuble

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Sep 27, 2004
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I think all would agree that we should try to avoid processed and high sugar foods. However, insulin is not the culpret for obesity/weight gain, regardless of what the popular diet authors would have you believe. The role that insulin plays in the body depends on many factors (eg: genetics, activity level) and is a highly desireable hormone for anyone who exercises on a regular basis.
:)
Insulin {IS} the culprit for obesity, as america has so proudly proven. We are the most obese country in the world. We also consume the most amount of refined sugar. Refined sugar has the greatest impact on insulin, and insulin has the greatest impact on fat storage.

To say that insulin is not a culprit of fat deposits is like saying your spark plugs are not essential to your automobile. Insulin is a regulatory hormone. It regulates alot of processes in the body. Some people are genetically "lucky" but insulin is the same chemical regardless of your genetic makeup.

Insulin pulls sugar out of the blood to the muscles where it can be stored. When the muscles get full and a person continues to eat sugar, insulin then continues to function by converting sugar into fat and storing it. Insulin is an anabolic hormone, it is used to build and to store.

People with Type I diabetes have no insulin, none at all. They must use insulin injections. When they forget to take insulin their bodies began immedietely breaking down bodyfat. They actually break down so much body fat that they produce excessive ketones and this causes kidney problems.

A low carbohydrate diet reduces excessive insulin causing more fat to be broken down for energy. Protein raises metabolism more than carbs simply because amino acids are harder to digest than simple sugars. So eating protein raises metabolism, decreases insulin and also increase glucagon. This last chemical makes fat burning kick into high gear.

Just curious. Did I miss something?
 

Smartt/RST

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Aug 9, 2004
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supermuble said:
:)
Insulin {IS} the culprit for obesity, as america has so proudly proven. We are the most obese country in the world. We also consume the most amount of refined sugar. Refined sugar has the greatest impact on insulin, and insulin has the greatest impact on fat storage.

To say that insulin is not a culprit of fat deposits is like saying your spark plugs are not essential to your automobile. Insulin is a regulatory hormone. It regulates alot of processes in the body. Some people are genetically "lucky" but insulin is the same chemical regardless of your genetic makeup.

Insulin pulls sugar out of the blood to the muscles where it can be stored. When the muscles get full and a person continues to eat sugar, insulin then continues to function by converting sugar into fat and storing it. Insulin is an anabolic hormone, it is used to build and to store.

People with Type I diabetes have no insulin, none at all. They must use insulin injections. When they forget to take insulin their bodies began immedietely breaking down bodyfat. They actually break down so much body fat that they produce excessive ketones and this causes kidney problems.

A low carbohydrate diet reduces excessive insulin causing more fat to be broken down for energy. Protein raises metabolism more than carbs simply because amino acids are harder to digest than simple sugars. So eating protein raises metabolism, decreases insulin and also increase glucagon. This last chemical makes fat burning kick into high gear.

Just curious. Did I miss something?
I don't think you missed much, but it does not change my previous statements. Americans are not the most obese country in the world because we eat the most refined sugar, it's because we flat out eat more than anybody else, including the most processed foods (including sugar), and the most fat, and are extremetly sedentary.
More to the point, as with any issue concerning exercise, diet, genetics, training programs, supplements, environment, altitude, etc, etc, you cannot compare apples and oranges. Diabetics are not athletes. The role insulin plays in athletes is much different than in diabetics for the reasons I stated earlier and for the reasons you stated as well. I for one, as do professional cyclists (quite often via injection) try to maximize my insulin respose whenever possible...my body composition is about 5% fat. Because one thing plays a role, does not mean it plays a causal role.
 

BiochemGuy

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Aug 14, 2004
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supermuble said:
Ummmm.... This would be true if you were eating little tiny bites of food all day... Unfortantely counting calories doesn't work as well as changing your diet.

What if you eat 1000 calories in one sitting? Your body cannot quickly burn this off and if your eating carbs then you raise your blood sugar, which in turn raises insulin. Insulin causes your muscle cells to pull some of the sugar in, the remaining blood sugar is too much for the body to handle so it converts it into fat where it is stored in the fat cells.

It dosn't matter if a person eats 1000 calories in one sitting or 50 calories in one sitting. All that matters is that the person is in a calorie deficit at the end of the day. If a person's body needs 3000 calories a day and they only eat 2000 calories a day on a diet then their is a 1000 calorie deficit. Their body needs 3000 calories to feed the muscles and organs. If that person ate only 2000 calories then the body has no choice but to take 1000 calories out of storage to feed the body.

Even if a large meal caused more fat to be stored it still wouldn't matter, because the body would be forced to pull more fat out of storage then it put in since their is a calorie deficit. Besides, its not like all the calories from a large meal are dumped into the system at once. A large meal takes longer for the body to digest and process.

And blood glucose isn't converted to fat in a fat cell. Glucose is only converted into glycerol which becomes the backbone in a triglyceride. Their has to be fatty acids to attach to that glycerol in order to form a triglyceride. There is always enough blood glucose to form glycerol to make a triglyceride. So trying to keep glucose low with diet to prevent triglyceride formation is pointless.

supermuble said:
Counting calories works for people who measure every bite of the food they are eating. It is a precise method that doesn't offer much relaxation. I could never do it myself. You cannot eat large meals because this raises insulin and insulin stores fat.

It is true that insulin stores fat. Though the body only needs a tiny amount of insulin in order to store fat. We always have enough insulin in our system to store fat. The smallest amount of carbohydrates or protein will cause more than enough insulin release to store fat, and increasing insulin beyond that dosn't mean more fat storage. Even someone who is on a zero carbohydrate diet will have more than enough insulin to store fat as long as they are eating protein. Since protein itself will cause enough insulin release for fat storage.

The whole issue of insulin and fat storage dosn't really matter anyway. Why you ask? We used to think that insulin was the only thing that could store fat, it isn't. There is something called Acylation Stimulation Protein(ASP) that can store fat. ASP can store fat itself without the help of insulin. ASP is stimulated by eating fat. Think of ASP being to fat what insulin is to carbohydrates. So eating fat will allow ASP in a fat cell to to store fat.

So to sum it up. Trying to keep insulin levels low to prevent fat storage is pointless for two reasons.

1) the body only needs a tiny amount of insulin to store fat. Anyone eating any carbohydrates or protein will have plenty of insulin release for fat storage, and increasing insulin beyond this tiny amount dosn't cause more fat storage.

2) The body dosn't even need insulin to store fat. The body can use acylation stimulation proteins to store fat.
So even if it were possible to have zero insulin. The body could still store fat just fine with ASP. Infact, the research is showing that ASP may be the main way the body stores fat and not insulin like previously thought.
 

Roadie_scum

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Nov 14, 2003
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Smartt/RST said:
I for one, as do professional cyclists (quite often via injection) try to maximize my insulin respose whenever possible.

I'm quite sure you mean you maximise insulin response by eating glycaemic CHO post-exercise and are not advocating insulin injections for athletes, but to make it crystal, non-indicated insulin injections like some professionals use (eg if you are not diabetic taking in correct dosage) are dangerous and illegal.
 

Smartt/RST

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Aug 9, 2004
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Roadie_scum said:
I'm quite sure you mean you maximise insulin response by eating glycaemic CHO post-exercise and are not advocating insulin injections for athletes, but to make it crystal, non-indicated insulin injections like some professionals use (eg if you are not diabetic taking in correct dosage) are dangerous and illegal.
Thanks for the clarification...and you are absolutely correct. What we (RST) advocate is a nutritional plan that maximizes the insulin response as a means of recovery from training. Also for the record, RST does not promote anything illegal or against UCI/WADA rules.
 

KakenBetaal

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Jun 14, 2004
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Now this is quite interesting to me as a type I diabetic. Maybe this explains why recovery eating has had such a noticeable effect on my training this season. Of course I have to take additional insulin to deal with the extra carbs intake and keep my blood glucose under control. Since I'm type I insulin isn't illegal for me either.