How Much Difference Do Shoes Make?

[Jorg Lueke]

I use the regular stap in peddles that came with my bike and regular
sneakers. They're not running shoes, pretty flat bottom and sturdy,
but obvoiusly not cycling shoes. Do the shoes make much difference?
Would I notice an increase in efficiency over an hour or two of riding?

 

[landotter]

On Jun 8, 9:51 pm, Jorg Lueke <[email protected]> wrote:
> I use the regular stap in peddles that came with my bike and regular
> sneakers. They're not running shoes, pretty flat bottom and sturdy,
> but obvoiusly not cycling shoes. Do the shoes make much difference?
> Would I notice an increase in efficiency over an hour or two of riding?

Who cares about efficiency? Racers do. Are you comfy? Then don't fret
Personally, I often go on thirty mile tears in Blundstone boots in
clips and straps with no discomfort.. If you're comfortable already,
but want more security, try some power grips. Or venture into the
world of spd. There are tons of walkable shoes that are spd
compatible, and also walkable. Are they necessary for casual riders?
Nah, unless you're suffering some sort of discomfort, stick with what
you got.

 

[Michael Warner]

On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 19:51:57 -0700, Jorg Lueke wrote:

> I use the regular stap in peddles that came with my bike and regular
> sneakers. They're not running shoes, pretty flat bottom and sturdy,
> but obvoiusly not cycling shoes. Do the shoes make much difference?
> Would I notice an increase in efficiency over an hour or two of riding?

Yes, but it wouldn't be dramatic. The main advantage over toe clip &
strap pedals is that it's much easier to get in and out of clipless pedals
with a little practice - you don't have to reach down to tighten and loosen
the strap. But if you're not stopping often, that wouldn't matter much.

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

 

[DougC]

Jorg Lueke wrote:
> I use the regular stap in peddles that came with my bike and regular
> sneakers. They're not running shoes, pretty flat bottom and sturdy,
> but obvoiusly not cycling shoes. Do the shoes make much difference?
> Would I notice an increase in efficiency over an hour or two of riding?
>

The biggest advantage of clipless pedals to recreational riders is that
when you get exhausted, the pedals are wonderful at helping hold your
feet on the pedals. This is a major issue for some recumbents, and may
be an issue for people riding downhill MTBs.

For the average person tottering around the neighborhood, they're not
much use.
~

 

[Jorg Lueke]

On Jun 9, 5:03 am, landotter <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jun 8, 9:51 pm, Jorg Lueke <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I use the regular stap in peddles that came with my bike and regular
> > sneakers. They're not running shoes, pretty flat bottom and sturdy,
> > but obvoiusly not cycling shoes. Do the shoes make much difference?
> > Would I notice an increase in efficiency over an hour or two of riding?
>
> Who cares about efficiency? Racers do. Are you comfy? Then don't fret
> Personally, I often go on thirty mile tears in Blundstone boots in
> clips and straps with no discomfort.. If you're comfortable already,
> but want more security, try some power grips. Or venture into the
> world of spd. There are tons of walkable shoes that are spd
> compatible, and also walkable. Are they necessary for casual riders?
> Nah, unless you're suffering some sort of discomfort, stick with what
> you got.

Cool. Thanks all to the responses. I'll keep doing what I am
doing.
The shorts remain essential though :-D

 

[landotter]

On Jun 9, 1:45 am, Michael Warner <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 19:51:57 -0700, Jorg Lueke wrote:
> > I use the regular stap in peddles that came with my bike and regular
> > sneakers. They're not running shoes, pretty flat bottom and sturdy,
> > but obvoiusly not cycling shoes. Do the shoes make much difference?
> > Would I notice an increase in efficiency over an hour or two of riding?
>
> Yes, but it wouldn't be dramatic. The main advantage over toe clip &
> strap pedals is that it's much easier to get in and out of clipless pedals
> with a little practice - you don't have to reach down to tighten and loosen
> the strap.

Huh? Back when I was using my pretty Diadora slot cleats, I never ever
tightened the straps down, as I've never found it necessary to pull my
leg straight up. Same goes for the clips and straps on my city bike,
the straps are tightened so that my shoe of choice barely slips in,
and the strap ends are tucked away permanently.

 

[landotter]

On Jun 9, 7:06 am, DougC <[email protected]> wrote:
> Jorg Lueke wrote:
> > I use the regular stap in peddles that came with my bike and regular
> > sneakers. They're not running shoes, pretty flat bottom and sturdy,
> > but obvoiusly not cycling shoes. Do the shoes make much difference?
> > Would I notice an increase in efficiency over an hour or two of riding?
>
> The biggest advantage of clipless pedals to recreational riders is that
> when you get exhausted, the pedals are wonderful at helping hold your
> feet on the pedals. This is a major issue for some recumbents, and may
> be an issue for people riding downhill MTBs.
>
> For the average person tottering around the neighborhood, they're not
> much use.
> ~

Indeed, for the average totterer, rubber block pedals are the best
choice, as they're comfy in bare feet.

 

[Tom Keats]

In article <[email protected]>,
Jorg Lueke <[email protected]> writes:
> I use the regular stap in peddles that came with my bike and regular
> sneakers. They're not running shoes, pretty flat bottom and sturdy,
> but obvoiusly not cycling shoes. Do the shoes make much difference?
> Would I notice an increase in efficiency over an hour or two of riding?

Stiffer soles actually do allow a rider to transfer more
power into the cranks, than do more flexible soles. I
don't know if you'll notice any increase in efficiency,
but I think you'll detect a much more positive "feeling"
that all your output wattage is going to where it belongs.

Some riders put orthotics in their casual street shoes
to stiffen them up for riding. I don't know how well
that works; it sounds to me like one might as well
use plywood insoles. You really want the stiffness to
be integral with the shoe. But orthotics might make a
credible compromise between riding and walking in
your oxfords.

I once had a pair of Carnac Ventoux touring shoes (which
I used with toe clips & straps,) and they worked very
well for me. I too often forget to remind myself to
replace them, and there are many other things above them
on my wish list. But Carnacs do seem to fit my feet better
than many other brands. On the other hand, orthotics are
cheaper.

You are wise to forego running shoes for riding.

When I'm going to work, my Dakota[tm] steel toe shoes
perform surprisingly well -- they have that compromise
between stiffness and flexibility that so many riders
seek. They even fit into my humongous Mt Zefal plastic
toeclips, when I undo the straps enough. Too bad they're
so heavy and bulky.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

 

[[email protected]]

Jorg Lueke writes:

> I use the regular strap in peddles that came with my bike and
> regular sneakers. They're not running shoes, pretty flat bottom and
> sturdy, but obviously not cycling shoes. Do the shoes make much
> difference? Would I notice an increase in efficiency over an hour
> or two of riding?

I don't think you could detect efficiency but if you ride forcefully,
you will notice that you can do things that are not possible with
unattached shoes or even ones with straps and clips. That this occurs
was underscored by early claims that step in pedals (including steel
cleated SPD) would pop out under heavy load.

It was so much a subject that track riders refused to change to such
pedals claiming that they would pop out. The reason they popped out
is that clips and strap riders develop a foot twist to make sure the
shoe cannot lift while sprinting, and it is this twist that caused
release.

This is similar to the introduction of step-in pedals when it was
common to see riders lying on the ground in the pedals because they
forgot lat minute that getting out of clips and straps was done by
lifting while step-in pedals required a twist, one that experienced
riders used to remain in the pedal.

If you occasionally stand and sprint over small hills or up railway
under/over passes, you'll find having the foot firmly and reliably
attached to the pedal is a welcome effect, especially when it is so
secure in use while being easily released when desired. Tightening a
strap has two deficits, it constricts the foot if effectively tight,
and it works itself loose over time making it unreliable.

I prefer the SPD 737 pedal with no float and the:

http://tinyurl.com/yxfwd3

shoe with a smooth rubber sole that allows walking indoors and on the
street without sounding like women's spike heels. An additional
feature is that the steel cleat works even when full of dirt, it being
designed to work in mud as well.

Jobst Brandt

 

[landotter]

On Jun 9, 7:00 pm, [email protected] wrote:

>
> If you occasionally stand and sprint over small hills or up railway
> under/over passes, you'll find having the foot firmly and reliably
> attached to the pedal is a welcome effect, especially when it is so
> secure in use while being easily released when desired. Tightening a
> strap has two deficits, it constricts the foot if effectively tight,
> and it works itself loose over time making it unreliable.

I never tightened my straps when I rode slot cleats, and never pulled
out. If such shoes were still readily available, I'd likely still ride
clips and straps. I like the positive feel. My 105 platforms from
circa '90 were the pinnacle of feel and comfort.

>
> I prefer the SPD 737 pedal with no float and the:

I like the Wellgo WPD-801. It's also rebranded by Nashbar and Ritchey.
It's bulletproof pedal, and cheap enough that you can put it on five
bikes for the price of the Shimano 737. I use it with road shoes
because that's what I happened to have handy. Works great, needs next
to zero maintenance. Never a pull out, never a tip over.

>
> http://tinyurl.com/yxfwd3
>
> shoe with a smooth rubber sole that allows walking indoors and on the
> street without sounding like women's spike heels. An additional
> feature is that the steel cleat works even when full of dirt, it being
> designed to work in mud as well.
>

Indeed, walkable cycling shoes are the best thing that arrived with
the modern retention systems.

 

[Michael Warner]

On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 16:22:01 -0000, landotter wrote:

> Huh? Back when I was using my pretty Diadora slot cleats, I never ever
> tightened the straps down, as I've never found it necessary to pull my
> leg straight up. Same goes for the clips and straps on my city bike,
> the straps are tightened so that my shoe of choice barely slips in,
> and the strap ends are tucked away permanently.

I don't even have the straps on my commuting bike anymore, just the
clips. But I assumed he was using them properly, since he said
"strap in pedals".

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

 

[Matt O'Toole]

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 02:15:46 +0000, landotter wrote:

> On Jun 9, 7:00 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
>> If you occasionally stand and sprint over small hills or up railway
>> under/over passes, you'll find having the foot firmly and reliably
>> attached to the pedal is a welcome effect, especially when it is so
>> secure in use while being easily released when desired. Tightening a
>> strap has two deficits, it constricts the foot if effectively tight,
>> and it works itself loose over time making it unreliable.
>
> I never tightened my straps when I rode slot cleats, and never pulled
> out. If such shoes were still readily available, I'd likely still ride
> clips and straps. I like the positive feel. My 105 platforms from circa
> '90 were the pinnacle of feel and comfort.
>
>
>> I prefer the SPD 737 pedal with no float and the:
>
> I like the Wellgo WPD-801. It's also rebranded by Nashbar and Ritchey.
> It's bulletproof pedal, and cheap enough that you can put it on five
> bikes for the price of the Shimano 737. I use it with road shoes because
> that's what I happened to have handy. Works great, needs next to zero
> maintenance. Never a pull out, never a tip over.
>
>
>> http://tinyurl.com/yxfwd3
>>
>> shoe with a smooth rubber sole that allows walking indoors and on the
>> street without sounding like women's spike heels. An additional
>> feature is that the steel cleat works even when full of dirt, it being
>> designed to work in mud as well.
>>
>>
> Indeed, walkable cycling shoes are the best thing that arrived with the
> modern retention systems.

This is true, but...

I have never seen the above Shimano shoe in a bike shop, or anything else
quite like it, even though this is exactly the kind of shoe most riders
need.

Basically we get road racing shoes with smooth plastic soles and
protruding cleats, MTB shoes made for cyclocross racing in mud, or
cumbersome, converted hiking shoes and sneakers with midsoles that crack.

Matt O.

 

[joe]

Matt O'Toole wrote:

> On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 02:15:46 +0000, landotter wrote:
>
>> On Jun 9, 7:00 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>
>>> If you occasionally stand and sprint over small hills or up railway
>>> under/over passes, you'll find having the foot firmly and reliably
>>> attached to the pedal is a welcome effect, especially when it is so
>>> secure in use while being easily released when desired. Tightening a
>>> strap has two deficits, it constricts the foot if effectively tight,
>>> and it works itself loose over time making it unreliable.
>>
>> I never tightened my straps when I rode slot cleats, and never pulled
>> out. If such shoes were still readily available, I'd likely still ride
>> clips and straps. I like the positive feel. My 105 platforms from circa
>> '90 were the pinnacle of feel and comfort.
>>
>>
>>> I prefer the SPD 737 pedal with no float and the:
>>
>> I like the Wellgo WPD-801. It's also rebranded by Nashbar and Ritchey.
>> It's bulletproof pedal, and cheap enough that you can put it on five
>> bikes for the price of the Shimano 737. I use it with road shoes because
>> that's what I happened to have handy. Works great, needs next to zero
>> maintenance. Never a pull out, never a tip over.
>>
>>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/yxfwd3
>>>
>>> shoe with a smooth rubber sole that allows walking indoors and on the
>>> street without sounding like women's spike heels. An additional
>>> feature is that the steel cleat works even when full of dirt, it being
>>> designed to work in mud as well.
>>>
>>>
>> Indeed, walkable cycling shoes are the best thing that arrived with the
>> modern retention systems.
>
> This is true, but...
>
> I have never seen the above Shimano shoe in a bike shop, or anything else
> quite like it, even though this is exactly the kind of shoe most riders
> need.
>
> Basically we get road racing shoes with smooth plastic soles and
> protruding cleats, MTB shoes made for cyclocross racing in mud, or
> cumbersome, converted hiking shoes and sneakers with midsoles that crack.
>
> Matt O.

There is always something like the Lake CX120

http://www.lakecycling.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=CX120

 

[Andrew Price]

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:00:59 -0400, Matt O'Toole
<[email protected]> wrote:

[walkable cycling shoes]

>I have never seen the above Shimano shoe in a bike shop, or anything else
>quite like it, even though this is exactly the kind of shoe most riders
>need.

Neither have I, and I agree, they would be most welcome. Are they
common in the U.S.?

>Basically we get road racing shoes with smooth plastic soles and
>protruding cleats, MTB shoes made for cyclocross racing in mud, or
>cumbersome, converted hiking shoes and sneakers with midsoles that crack.

That's usually what I've found in Europe (France and Germany) too.

 

[[email protected]]

Matt O'Toole writes:

>>> If you occasionally stand and sprint over small hills or up
>>> railway under/over passes, you'll find having the foot firmly and
>>> reliably attached to the pedal is a welcome effect, especially
>>> when it is so secure in use while being easily released when
>>> desired. Tightening a strap has two deficits, it constricts the
>>> foot if effectively tight, and it works itself loose over time
>>> making it unreliable.

>> I never tightened my straps when I rode slot cleats, and never
>> pulled out. If such shoes were still readily available, I'd likely
>> still ride clips and straps. I like the positive feel. My 105
>> platforms from circa '90 were the pinnacle of feel and comfort.

>>> I prefer the SPD 737 pedal with no float and the:

>> I like the Wellgo WPD-801. It's also rebranded by Nashbar and
>> Ritchey. It's bulletproof pedal, and cheap enough that you can put
>> it on five bikes for the price of the Shimano 737. I use it with
>> road shoes because that's what I happened to have handy. Works
>> great, needs next to zero maintenance. Never a pull out, never a
>> tip over.

http://tinyurl.com/yxfwd3

>>> shoe with a smooth rubber sole that allows walking indoors and on
>>> the street without sounding like women's spike heels. An
>>> additional feature is that the steel cleat works even when full of
>>> dirt, it being designed to work in mud as well.

>> Indeed, walkable cycling shoes are the best thing that arrived with
>> the modern retention systems.

> This is true, but...

> I have never seen the above Shimano shoe in a bike shop, or anything
> else quite like it, even though this is exactly the kind of shoe
> most riders need.

> Basically we get road racing shoes with smooth plastic soles and
> protruding cleats, MTB shoes made for cyclocross racing in mud, or
> cumbersome, converted hiking shoes and sneakers with midsoles that
> crack.

It goes along with any fat tired bicycle today comes with aggressive
knobby tread as if everyone were riding in mud while most of these
bicycle don't even travel off pavement. Children's bicycles have
white knobby tires. It's like driving truck. Gotta have loud
oversized tires. Gotta have racing shoes that walk like a duck or MTB
shoes that will track a half pound of dirt into the house if you had
stepped in some mud.

Jobst Brandt

 

[[email protected]]

Joe Thanks writes:

>>>> If you occasionally stand and sprint over small hills or up
>>>> railway under/over passes, you'll find having the foot firmly and
>>>> reliably attached to the pedal is a welcome effect, especially
>>>> when it is so secure in use while being easily released when
>>>> desired. Tightening a strap has two deficits, it constricts the
>>>> foot if effectively tight, and it works itself loose over time
>>>> making it unreliable.

>>> I never tightened my straps when I rode slot cleats, and never
>>> pulled out. If such shoes were still readily available, I'd likely
>>> still ride clips and straps. I like the positive feel. My 105
>>> platforms from circa '90 were the pinnacle of feel and comfort.

>>>> I prefer the SPD 737 pedal with no float and the:

>>> I like the Wellgo WPD-801. It's also rebranded by Nashbar and
>>> Ritchey. It's bulletproof pedal, and cheap enough that you can
>>> put it on five bikes for the price of the Shimano 737. I use it
>>> with road shoes because that's what I happened to have
>>> handy. Works great, needs next to zero maintenance. Never a pull
>>> out, never a tip over.

http://tinyurl.com/yxfwd3

>>>> shoe with a smooth rubber sole that allows walking indoors and on
>>>> the street without sounding like women's spike heels. An
>>>> additional feature is that the steel cleat works even when full
>>>> of dirt, it being designed to work in mud as well.

>>> Indeed, walkable cycling shoes are the best thing that arrived
>>> with the modern retention systems.

>> This is true, but...

>> I have never seen the above Shimano shoe in a bike shop, or
>> anything else quite like it, even though this is exactly the kind
>> of shoe most riders need.

>> Basically we get road racing shoes with smooth plastic soles and
>> protruding cleats, MTB shoes made for cyclocross racing in mud, or
>> cumbersome, converted hiking shoes and sneakers with midsoles that
>> crack.

> There is always something like the Lake CX120

> http://www.lakecycling.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=CX120

Looks like it can pick up even more dirt and track it around, while
the third Velcro strap near the toe is a feature without function.

Jobst Brandt

 

[Bob]

On Jun 8, 9:51 pm, Jorg Lueke <[email protected]> wrote:
> I use the regular stap in peddles that came with my bike and regular
> sneakers. They're not running shoes, pretty flat bottom and sturdy,
> but obvoiusly not cycling shoes. Do the shoes make much difference?
> Would I notice an increase in efficiency over an hour or two of riding?

Outside of a placebo effect, simply switching shoes probably won't
make any noticeable increase in efficiency. If you aren't having any
foot pain after an hour or two of riding I'd guess your current shoes
are plenty stiff enough. There's no real need to change unless you are
considering switching to clipless pedals. Then of course you really
won't have a choice. You will need dedicated cycling shoes.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

>I use the regular stap in peddles that came with my bike and regular
> sneakers. They're not running shoes, pretty flat bottom and sturdy,
> but obvoiusly not cycling shoes. Do the shoes make much difference?
> Would I notice an increase in efficiency over an hour or two of riding?

The differences and improvements that come with clipless shoes & pedals seem
difficult for people to grasp until they actually try them. Then the
response is usually the same as seen for lycra cycling shorts... as in, why
didn't I talk someone into them sooner?

#1: With a basic SPD-style pedal/shoe system, you have your foot held where
it needs to be, without any effort on your part. Ever. No matter how tired
you are, no matter how steep the hill, you don't ever have to even think
about your pedals. But if you want to get out, you simply twist to the side
and step down. Simple as that.

#2: As you push down on the pedal, the pedal edges can be thought of pushing
up against your foot. A normal shoe isn't designed to take that sort of
load, and often delivers it with minimal spread across your foot. Thus, your
foot tries to bend itself around the pedal, which is generally not a good
thing. Think of climbing stairs in normal shoes, only not getting all of
your foot onto the next step each time, so you're placing all of the load
across the middle of your foot. Not very comfy. A good cycling shoe is
designed to distribute this load across a large area of your foot,
eliminating point-loading. Happier feet on longer rides. On shorter rides,
this isn't such a huge deal, but if you're out there riding more than half
an hour, I think you'll notice the improvement.

Notice that I haven't even brought up "efficiency." This isn't about going
faster, it's about feeling better when you're riding. There may be
efficiency improvements, but that's not the reason to get clipless shoes &
pedals (for most people anyway).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

 

[David L. Johnson]

Jorg Lueke wrote:
> I use the regular stap in peddles that came with my bike and regular
> sneakers. They're not running shoes, pretty flat bottom and sturdy,
> but obvoiusly not cycling shoes. Do the shoes make much difference?
> Would I notice an increase in efficiency over an hour or two of riding?
>
I presume you are talking about getting clipless pedals as well as the
shoes. In that case, you probably will notice some improved efficiency,
but the first thing you would notice is an increase in comfort. Well,
after you get over your newbie fall at a stop sign. Everybody does
that. I did, after years of riding with cleats and cycling shoes meant
for toestraps.



--

David L. Johnson

Let's not escape into mathematics. Let's stay with reality.
-- Michael Crichton

 

[Michael Warner]

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:00:59 -0400, Matt O'Toole wrote:

> I have never seen the above Shimano shoe in a bike shop, or anything else
> quite like it, even though this is exactly the kind of shoe most riders
> need.

The first cycling shoes I bought (from Shimano) were very similar to those,
except mostly silver. They looked much like road shoes, but with a fairly
stiff sole for recessed SPD cleats.

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw