How To Corner Like A Pro
- Thread starter steve
- Start date
Local evening news said that the cyclists' estimated speed was 35-40 mph. I don't know what the speed limit is at that spot, but if they were over it, they were no faster than most of the motorized traffic.
Crossing the centerline on a curve to park on the opposite side of the road sure is stupid.
The news also said Stetina is responsive, moving his limbs, and paralysis looks unlikely. We'll hope, wish, and pray for the best.
Crossing the centerline on a curve to park on the opposite side of the road sure is stupid.
The news also said Stetina is responsive, moving his limbs, and paralysis looks unlikely. We'll hope, wish, and pray for the best.
The facts of the accident will come out and I hope Dale makes a fast recovery.
Sadly, he went head over tin cups:
http://blogs.denverpost.com/sports/2013/09/01/dale-stetina-in-critical-condition-with-head-injuries-after-bike-accident-in-lefthand-canyon/25418/
“He swerved and braked so hard he went over the handlebars,†Cpl. Heather Cobler of the Colorado State Patrol was quoted as saying.
Dale is second from the front...along with Alexi, Andy Hampsten, Chris Carmichael and the gang and...I'll be damned! Look at those guys hammer and ride on the hoods. Goddamned unaero, unedumacated Fudds! They better tune into da intarwebz and learn from da exspurts.
Sadly, he went head over tin cups:
http://blogs.denverpost.com/sports/2013/09/01/dale-stetina-in-critical-condition-with-head-injuries-after-bike-accident-in-lefthand-canyon/25418/
“He swerved and braked so hard he went over the handlebars,†Cpl. Heather Cobler of the Colorado State Patrol was quoted as saying.
Dale is second from the front...along with Alexi, Andy Hampsten, Chris Carmichael and the gang and...I'll be damned! Look at those guys hammer and ride on the hoods. Goddamned unaero, unedumacated Fudds! They better tune into da intarwebz and learn from da exspurts.
He was a professional so we can believe the took the turn like a professional. See what happened.
I am sure he thought he was descending at a reasonable speed. See what happened.
The corner was not blind. At least not at a reasonable speed. See what happened.
In this thread you said: "Learn to read the road and corner within your abilities on unknown roads or you're a much greater danger to yourself or others." He did that. See what happened.
You just don't don't get it. Public roads for riding like a professional. (But most bicycle races are unsafe because Cat5 - Cat1 think they can ride like professionals.)
---
I never said it was his fault. But he could have avoided the accident by not riding like a professional on the public roads.
---
I don't know what you think a reasonable speed on Lefthand Canyon Road is. The last time I was there I kept my speed below 25mph. Got passed by a lot of people on bicycles. I suspect they were going faster than they should have been - some claim over 50mph.
Perhaps you could reread the news. He did not hit the car. The driver also made poor decisions, but none of his acts appears illegal in itself. So we have 2 guys who made poor decisions. And the bicyclist got hurt.
You don't how he was riding, Old Troll. You think riding like a professional means riding fast or in some unsafe fashion. That is not the case at all that's been put forth. Actually, the driver should be found at fault as it was his decision to pull out in front of traffic. I'd suggest that you are, despite your claims, trying to put the blame on Stetina and the other riders.An old Guy said:
Quote: Originally Posted by alienator .
You don't how he was riding, Old Troll. You think riding like a professional means riding fast or in some unsafe fashion. That is not the case at all that's been put forth. Actually, the driver should be found at fault as it was his decision to pull out in front of traffic. I'd suggest that you are, despite your claims, trying to put the blame on Stetina and the other riders.
The basic speed law: you may never procede faster than is safe for current conditions.
You concentrate too much on the driver. Had the car been broken down instead. Had a cow been in the road. The result might have been the same. Would you then blame the broken down car or the cow?
Basic speed law.
You can place fault where you want to.
---
I used to ride like a "professional." Used to corner like one also. At least in races. I find that I can ride on the public roads without riding like a pro. I can corner without cornering like a pro.
I don't get paid to ride like a pro. I don't get paid to corner like a pro. And I don't need to pay for the consequences associated with the risks of pretending I am a pro.
You don't how he was riding, Old Troll. You think riding like a professional means riding fast or in some unsafe fashion. That is not the case at all that's been put forth. Actually, the driver should be found at fault as it was his decision to pull out in front of traffic. I'd suggest that you are, despite your claims, trying to put the blame on Stetina and the other riders.
The basic speed law: you may never procede faster than is safe for current conditions.
You concentrate too much on the driver. Had the car been broken down instead. Had a cow been in the road. The result might have been the same. Would you then blame the broken down car or the cow?
Basic speed law.
You can place fault where you want to.
---
I used to ride like a "professional." Used to corner like one also. At least in races. I find that I can ride on the public roads without riding like a pro. I can corner without cornering like a pro.
I don't get paid to ride like a pro. I don't get paid to corner like a pro. And I don't need to pay for the consequences associated with the risks of pretending I am a pro.
Quote: Originally Posted by alienator .
So, Old Man, at what speed was the group that Dale Stetina was in riding? Please use your powers of prescience to let us know. As for your claims of cornering like a pro, I'll file those with your other highly suspect claims and statements.
Too fast for the conditions.
It is really not that difficult.
----
I don't care how you corner. we saw what happened in this case.
So, Old Man, at what speed was the group that Dale Stetina was in riding? Please use your powers of prescience to let us know. As for your claims of cornering like a pro, I'll file those with your other highly suspect claims and statements.
Too fast for the conditions.
It is really not that difficult.
----
I don't care how you corner. we saw what happened in this case.
From RBR:
"...but I lived in the area for a number of years and ridden (bike and motorcycle) and driven that road. It can be a very fast and fun technical descent with turns of varying radii, and it's a favorite place for good riders to push the envelope speed wise, exceeding posted limits."
Suffice it to say that Dale was going fast enough to lose control, endo, face plant with enough speed to break his face, sustain a brain stem injury of some sort and various other speed related injuries. A LACK of speed was not Dale's problem.
"...but I lived in the area for a number of years and ridden (bike and motorcycle) and driven that road. It can be a very fast and fun technical descent with turns of varying radii, and it's a favorite place for good riders to push the envelope speed wise, exceeding posted limits."
Suffice it to say that Dale was going fast enough to lose control, endo, face plant with enough speed to break his face, sustain a brain stem injury of some sort and various other speed related injuries. A LACK of speed was not Dale's problem.
Actually, Old Troll, we didn't see. You didn't. I didn't. I've as yet to read any interview with anyone riding with Dale Stetina. You presume to know far too much, old man. Unlike you, I'll wait to hear the actual story before I start kicking Dale Stetina. Until then, you're on your own.
"Actually, Old Troll, we didn't see."
Incorrect. We see.
Dale, obviously, did NOT see.
Your playground name calling does not make up for your inability to use logic. Old Guy kicked your ass from one end of the fact spectrum to the other and all you have in response is to call him a troll? Weak sauce.
Let's hope today's medical report on Dale Stetina's condition is good news.
Incorrect. We see.
Dale, obviously, did NOT see.
Your playground name calling does not make up for your inability to use logic. Old Guy kicked your ass from one end of the fact spectrum to the other and all you have in response is to call him a troll? Weak sauce.
Let's hope today's medical report on Dale Stetina's condition is good news.
The latest medical reports indicate no paralysis. That's good news! Dale's condition has been upgraded from critical to 'serious'.
From "The Boulder County News":
According to troopers who responded to the scene, a 1999 Jeep SUV was headed west when the driver -- identified only as an adult male -- pulled across the center line and onto a shoulder on the opposite side of the road. The driver then attempted to pull back into the westbound lane just as a group of cyclists headed east on the roadway came around a slight bend, officials said.
All of the cyclists were able to avoid the vehicle, but Stetina lost control in the process of maneuvering, causing him to fall from his bike, according to the State Patrol.
The driver of the Jeep has not been ticketed in connection with the incident.
It sounds like Dale drew the short straw. Proximity in the pack to the Jeep? Vision limited by the other riders? Zigged when he should have zagged? Over-use of the brakes? Reaction time? Who the hells knows, but it's obvious the primary causes are a Jeep in the lane of travel at some time and the speed of the riders coming off the mountain side.
From "The Boulder County News":
According to troopers who responded to the scene, a 1999 Jeep SUV was headed west when the driver -- identified only as an adult male -- pulled across the center line and onto a shoulder on the opposite side of the road. The driver then attempted to pull back into the westbound lane just as a group of cyclists headed east on the roadway came around a slight bend, officials said.
All of the cyclists were able to avoid the vehicle, but Stetina lost control in the process of maneuvering, causing him to fall from his bike, according to the State Patrol.
The driver of the Jeep has not been ticketed in connection with the incident.
It sounds like Dale drew the short straw. Proximity in the pack to the Jeep? Vision limited by the other riders? Zigged when he should have zagged? Over-use of the brakes? Reaction time? Who the hells knows, but it's obvious the primary causes are a Jeep in the lane of travel at some time and the speed of the riders coming off the mountain side.
The rules are simple.
If you are going too fast to get safely stopped in the distance you can see and for the potential conditions ahead...you are already out of control. You just don't know it. We ride that way A LOT. Almost everyone does. That's what testosterone does.
It doesn't change the facts.
That could have just as easily been a white tail or mulie or an Amish buggy or a farm tractor moving 4 MPH on that road. The end result would have been the same.
If you are going too fast to get safely stopped in the distance you can see and for the potential conditions ahead...you are already out of control. You just don't know it. We ride that way A LOT. Almost everyone does. That's what testosterone does.
It doesn't change the facts.
That could have just as easily been a white tail or mulie or an Amish buggy or a farm tractor moving 4 MPH on that road. The end result would have been the same.
Quote: Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .
The rules are simple.
If you are going too fast to get safely stopped in the distance you can see and for the potential conditions ahead...you are already out of control. You just don't know it. We ride that way A LOT. Almost everyone does. That's what testosterone does.
It doesn't change the facts.
That could have just as easily been a white tail or mulie or an Amish buggy or a farm tractor moving 4 MPH on that road. The end result would have been the same.
We know it.
We ride that way ALWAYS. Everyone does as you cannot anticipate every possible risk. That's life. The only way to avoid road hazard is not to ride/drive. There is no magic speed that equals "safe". There is no safe ... only reduced risk.
I'm almost certain Dale was not out to prove or disprove the merits of some stupid "cornering like a pro" debate. No doubt he felt confident that he was riding within his limits. We all have to make judgements as we move through life. Some prove to be right and some prove to be wrong. We'll never know the results on the decisions we didn't make.
Unfortunately a very serious accident happened. I hope Dale makes a full recovery.
The rules are simple.
If you are going too fast to get safely stopped in the distance you can see and for the potential conditions ahead...you are already out of control. You just don't know it. We ride that way A LOT. Almost everyone does. That's what testosterone does.
It doesn't change the facts.
That could have just as easily been a white tail or mulie or an Amish buggy or a farm tractor moving 4 MPH on that road. The end result would have been the same.
We know it.
We ride that way ALWAYS. Everyone does as you cannot anticipate every possible risk. That's life. The only way to avoid road hazard is not to ride/drive. There is no magic speed that equals "safe". There is no safe ... only reduced risk.
I'm almost certain Dale was not out to prove or disprove the merits of some stupid "cornering like a pro" debate. No doubt he felt confident that he was riding within his limits. We all have to make judgements as we move through life. Some prove to be right and some prove to be wrong. We'll never know the results on the decisions we didn't make.
Unfortunately a very serious accident happened. I hope Dale makes a full recovery.
Yup. Out of control since 1972, in my case.
And when the rent comes due it is usually painful. Dale wasn't reducing risk coming down Left Hand Canyon. The rent came due.
All anyone has to do is watch one of the Goon Ride training vids Collin puts up. 'Splains it all.
LHC looks to 4000' from either side: http://www.mapmyride.com/us/boulder-co/st-vrain-lefthand-canyon-loop-route-574912 It's a fun ride on a Harley!
And when the rent comes due it is usually painful. Dale wasn't reducing risk coming down Left Hand Canyon. The rent came due.
All anyone has to do is watch one of the Goon Ride training vids Collin puts up. 'Splains it all.
LHC looks to 4000' from either side: http://www.mapmyride.com/us/boulder-co/st-vrain-lefthand-canyon-loop-route-574912 It's a fun ride on a Harley!
I really like the Global Cycling Network channel. There are many channels on YouTube but this is the best one among all of them. I would definitely try to promote this channel.
