How to get faster

[lyotard]

oops, the kilo is shorter than i realized at Rory's level.
a former usa nat'l and olympian, he set the World and USA Kilo at one min. and a little change. stood for about ten years. in '98 he did a 1:14 kilo as a 40-44 age group. still held onto a USA record in '99,
a sub-29 sec 500m set in the 35+ age group.
he was known for squatting. 500 lb.

anyway on the subject of kilo specific weight lifting, would it not make sense to train with quad specific weight training for road since the kilo is such a crucial element in terms of practical use in making breaks, lappin the field, positioning when it counts, and final sprint performance?

i know when one is in kilo-mode the above factors are contested effectively.

not sure who Ro'R is?

 

[ric_stern/RST]

anyway on the subject of kilo specific weight lifting, would it not make sense to train with quad specific weight training for road since the kilo is such a crucial element in terms of practical use in making breaks, lappin the field, positioning when it counts, and final sprint performance?

i know when one is in kilo-mode the above factors are contested effectively.

the kilo as an actual event bears no resemblance to a RR or endurance event. if it did, riders like Chris Hoy would win the TdF, or do well at it, which of course they don't.

Just because you may have to ride hard for a kilometre in a RR doesn't make a kilo TT specific training suitable for RRing. more details and lack of an effect of strength/weights on endurance performance can be seen here http://www.cyclingforums.com/t126133-gyming-to-improve-power.html
and http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=strengthstern

ric

 

[Chipotle]

"Ride lots" Eddy Merckx

Wanna get faster and you don't think you have time to train? Commute to work - as fast as you can.
I have a friend who does this. He is a retail manager and he finds a way to manage the hygene issue. Anyway, the friend is wicked fast on a mountain bike. I have another friend who also commutes ( architect - no excuses about nice clothes and appts, please). He mearly rides at a comfortable pace. Guess which one is 100 time faster?

Hi all MTBer's. I'm actually new to MTBing and have only done 2 races so far this year. I don't get much training in. Maybe one day a week if that on the trails, and I go to a spin class once a week.

I'm concerned with how to get faster? Is it just a matter of muscle strength? I have good technical abilities.


Any suggestions?

Christine

 

[Archibald]

Christine,

to increase your speed round the track/along the trail you'll need to know one thing: Speed = economy of motion.

to illustrate my point, there was mtb skills clinic done locally here about 2 weeks ago.
the promise by the instructor was that he'd improve eveyone's time over a 1km course by at least 10 seconds by the end of the day.
sure enough, by the end of the day people did the course far better than 10 seconds better than their original time.
a week later, in the following mtb xc race one of the course goers slaughtered his race times by a couple of minutes.

if you can find a clinic or skills coach, or some other riders to help you with your technique then go for it. this will be your biggest help to yourself as a newbie to increase your speed.
"smooth is fast"
endurance will come later as you ride more...

 

[e0richt]

Hi all MTBer's. I'm actually new to MTBing and have only done 2 races so far this year. I don't get much training in. Maybe one day a week if that on the trails, and I go to a spin class once a week.

I'm concerned with how to get faster? Is it just a matter of muscle strength? I have good technical abilities.


Any suggestions?

Christine

one way is to build up some base milieage (which seems ok for you because of the spin classes). then from there you want to do some intervals where you try to go much faster for shorter intervals... you might also want to add some weight training such as the leg press, leg curl, and calf raise. A stronger muscle is a faster muscle... (thats why sprinters do weight training...)

 

[ric_stern/RST]

one way is to build up some base milieage (which seems ok for you because of the spin classes). then from there you want to do some intervals where you try to go much faster for shorter intervals... you might also want to add some weight training such as the leg press, leg curl, and calf raise. A stronger muscle is a faster muscle... (thats why sprinters do weight training...)

apart from sprinting, stronger isn't faster (i.e., for the majority of a race). it's also likely to be detrimental. please see the threads in the cycle training forum.

Ric

 

[li0scc0]

apart from sprinting, stronger isn't faster (i.e., for the majority of a race). it's also likely to be detrimental. please see the threads in the cycle training forum.

Ric

Ric,
I don't understand. If I can currently do, say, *** Watts for 30 minutes, and in three months I can do ***+20 Watts for 30 minutes, wouldn't I be faster by getting stronger?

 

[e0richt]

Ric,
I don't understand. If I can currently do, say, *** Watts for 30 minutes, and in three months I can do ***+20 Watts for 30 minutes, wouldn't I be faster by getting stronger?

I agree with you.
In order for you to go faster on a bike, you have to try to go faster on a bike.
so practice is your best bet in order to build that "efficiency" needed in terms of cadence, cycling skills and muscle necessary to go fast... however, once that is acheived, a stronger muscle will last longer anaerobically than a weaker muscle... Also you must lift a certain way to build the muscle strength without building alot of bulk (which would tend to slow you down...)

also remember, I am not a coach or anything, but I remember that olympic sprinters training regimens included weight training... I would think that whats good for a sprinter is good for a sprinter type of cyclist as well.

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Ric,
I don't understand. If I can currently do, say, *** Watts for 30 minutes, and in three months I can do ***+20 Watts for 30 minutes, wouldn't I be faster by getting stronger?

you'd be 'faster' (technically, more sustainable power) because your aerobic system has gotten fitter. It's unlikely you've gotten stronger - and in fact may have gotten weaker (aerobic machinery replaces contractile proteins).

if you think about it in basic terms, how many weight lifters do you know who could beat cyclists in an endurance (>90-secs) race? Likewise, i've yet to see the very strong cyclists such as Sean Eadie, Jason Queally, etc, win any stages of the Tour de France.

ric

 

[e0richt]

you'd be 'faster' (technically, more sustainable power) because your aerobic system has gotten fitter. It's unlikely you've gotten stronger - and in fact may have gotten weaker (aerobic machinery replaces contractile proteins).

if you think about it in basic terms, how many weight lifters do you know who could beat cyclists in an endurance (>90-secs) race? Likewise, i've yet to see the very strong cyclists such as Sean Eadie, Jason Queally, etc, win any stages of the Tour de France.

ric

oh please, that is a stupid comment based on the fact that in order to excel at an activity one must DO that activity... weight training is a supplement not a replacement...

 

[ric_stern/RST]

oh please, that is a stupid comment based on the fact that in order to excel at an activity one must DO that activity... weight training is a supplement not a replacement...

in untrained and low fitness subjects, weight training will increase endurance type fitness, as any exercise will lead to improvements in performance in the primary exercise modality. however, in trained subjects weight training won't lead to an increase in performance in endurance cycling performance, and may well be detrimental. There is no evidence to support weight training in trained cyclists in ECP, and thus, to excel at that activity (ECP) one must do that activity.

Ric

 

[e0richt]

in untrained and low fitness subjects, weight training will increase endurance type fitness, as any exercise will lead to improvements in performance in the primary exercise modality. however, in trained subjects weight training won't lead to an increase in performance in endurance cycling performance, and may well be detrimental. There is no evidence to support weight training in trained cyclists in ECP, and thus, to excel at that activity (ECP) one must do that activity.

Ric

"one must do that activity". that was never in contention. However, I went looking for some studies on weight training and the endurance athlete... basically it does seem to agree with your statements. I found that weight training DID help me but the study had different results for different type of athletes.

It seems that if you are a beginning athlete (which I am...), you will benefit from weight training but if you are an "elite" athlete you could actually hinder your performnance. Unfortunately, there really was no definition of what an "elite" athlete was...

and the reason for the benefit to the "beginner" is because almost anything physically demanding would be a benefit until she reaches a certain level in the sport.

interesting, the study goes on to talk about "Mitochondrial Dilution" which means that as a muscle fiber gets bigger due to hypertrophy it leave less room in the fiber for mitochondria which is the "power generator" for cells...
not really missed in a bodybuilder, but would be sorely missed in an endurance athlete...

 

[ric_stern/RST]

"one must do that activity". that was never in contention. However, I went looking for some studies on weight training and the endurance athlete... basically it does seem to agree with your statements. I found that weight training DID help me but the study had different results for different type of athletes.

It seems that if you are a beginning athlete (which I am...), you will benefit from weight training but if you are an "elite" athlete you could actually hinder your performnance. Unfortunately, there really was no definition of what an "elite" athlete was...

while there's a multitude of definitions of what elite means, in terms of weights and ECP, i'd suggest that if you race or have the ability to race then weights may not be of benefit to ECP.

and the reason for the benefit to the "beginner" is because almost anything physically demanding would be a benefit until she reaches a certain level in the sport.

interesting, the study goes on to talk about "Mitochondrial Dilution" which means that as a muscle fiber gets bigger due to hypertrophy it leave less room in the fiber for mitochondria which is the "power generator" for cells...
not really missed in a bodybuilder, but would be sorely missed in an endurance athlete...

capillary and mitochondrion density decreases with weights (hypertrophy), hence, my previous comment about aerobic machinery.

ric

 

[Trek1000]

Hi all MTBer's. I'm actually new to MTBing and have only done 2 races so far this year. I don't get much training in. Maybe one day a week if that on the trails, and I go to a spin class once a week.

I'm concerned with how to get faster? Is it just a matter of muscle strength? I have good technical abilities.


Any suggestions?

Christine

I agree with a lot of the things that were mentioned especially about training consistently. Also vary your workouts so that some are intense and some are long (recovery). Focus on basics such as staying well hydrated not only during the ride but BEFORE and after. Focus on a good solid easy warmup. You'll notice that your muscles will fatigue less with a good warmup. Roots and rocks- trust the shocks on your bike and don't ride your brake. Let the shocks do its job. stand up for sharp turns and lean. Your tires will hold you. be conservative with your brakes.

 

[motorex259]

what about aerodynamics?

 

[Japheth]

Here's my answer: ride bmx and get as good as you can at tricks, then ride your usual mtb trails on a bmx.


These look like the best "bang for the buck:"

http://www.easternbikes.com/
(specifically the Traildigger).

Jacob Vickery

 

[Jace1283]

I've been doing cyclocross races, practice races, and mountain biking with a fast group for 2 hours weekly(a quick woman comes too to get a good ride in), not suggesting you do this BUT my point is both activities are fast pace and you don't let up. I've been getting faster, you need something like this. Honestly if your legs aren't sore and your lungs aren't sore after some rides, you may not find yourself getting much faster. Don't let anyone tell you weight training doesn't help either.

In a group you tend to ride better and faster, joining a local club is your next step.

Depending on how new you are you may want to work up a base level of fitness and just ride as much as you can and do some research on bike fit, yore leg should be nearly straight but not because you can go to far. If youre position is bad your knees should let you know pretty quick.