Hub Gearing

Vince said:

After many miles on my derraileur gears I have decided they must go. I

have now started to convert my mountain bike to hub gears. Initially
I will install a Sturmey Archer AW 3 speed hub. Later, when finances
allow, I will buy one of the new 8 speed, drum brake rear hubs with a
drum brake, dynamo front hub.

I believe I will end up with a much more practical bike both for
commuting and for fun.

Has anybody else tried hub gearing on a mountain bike? Any comments?

Are you insane?

Good luck. If you think the SA will last longer than your derailleur on
true MTB trails you'll be walking your bike more than riding it.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Ride-A-Lot said:

Are you insane?

Good luck. If you think the SA will last longer than your derailleur on
true MTB trails you'll be walking your bike more than riding it.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

LOL, my sanity is instantly brought into question. Who cares whether
I'm sane or not. I just enjoy bike riding.

Are your comments on the SA v derraileurs based on personal experience.
Have you tried it. If not, do you know anyone who has?

Can you give me a more detailed and convincing reason for sticking with
derailleurs?

Vince said:

Ride-A-Lot said:

Are you insane?

Good luck. If you think the SA will last longer than your
derailleur on true MTB trails you'll be walking your bike more than
riding it.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

LOL, my sanity is instantly brought into question. Who cares whether
I'm sane or not. I just enjoy bike riding.

Are your comments on the SA v derraileurs based on personal
experience. Have you tried it. If not, do you know anyone who has?

I think Pete Creswell uses it; perhaps he'll speak up.

Quoted message said:

Can you give me a more detailed and convincing reason for sticking
with derailleurs?

Lighter and much less expensive; not sure about durability.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can you give me a more detailed and convincing reason for sticking
with derailleurs?

Lighter and much less expensive; not sure about durability.

I'm not sure the difference is a great as might be imagined.

The hub gear takes the place of:
Rear hub
Gear mechanisms (front and rear)
Rear sprockets

You also need to compare a triple chainset with an equivalent single
chainset and take into account the weight of the extra length of chain
required for a derailleur system.

As far as durabilty I have a 1950 AM hub on my road bike that runs
beautifully. This is not untypical of hub gears. It is a lightweight
machine and is very lively to ride.

Bill Sornson said:

Vince said:

Ride-A-Lot said:

Are you insane?

Good luck. If you think the SA will last longer than your
derailleur on true MTB trails you'll be walking your bike more than
riding it.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

LOL, my sanity is instantly brought into question. Who cares whether
I'm sane or not. I just enjoy bike riding.

Are your comments on the SA v derraileurs based on personal
experience. Have you tried it. If not, do you know anyone who has?

I think Pete Creswell uses it; perhaps he'll speak up.

Quoted message said:

Can you give me a more detailed and convincing reason for sticking
with derailleurs?

Lighter and much less expensive; not sure about durability.

Pete uses that German monstrosity that weighs five pounds and is
specifically designed for mountain bikes (i.e. durability). Vince wants
to put a townie bike drivetrain on a mountain bike.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Ride-A-Lot' 'mitchellNOSPAM said:

Bill Sornson said:

Vince said:

Ride-A-Lot wrote:

> Are you insane?
>
> Good luck. If you think the SA will last longer than your
> derailleur on true MTB trails you'll be walking your bike more than
> riding it.
>
> --
> o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
> www.schnauzers.ws
LOL, my sanity is instantly brought into question. Who cares
whether I'm sane or not. I just enjoy bike riding.

Are your comments on the SA v derraileurs based on personal
experience. Have you tried it. If not, do you know anyone who has?

I think Pete Creswell uses it; perhaps he'll speak up.

Quoted message said:

Can you give me a more detailed and convincing reason for sticking
with derailleurs?

Lighter and much less expensive; not sure about durability.

Pete uses that German monstrosity that weighs five pounds and is
specifically designed for mountain bikes (i.e. durability). Vince
wants to put a townie bike drivetrain on a mountain bike.

Ah. Figured I was missing something. Didn't pick up on that.

Vince, are you CRAZY, man?!? <eg>

Quoted message said:

Pete uses that German monstrosity that weighs five pounds and is
specifically designed for mountain bikes (i.e. durability). Vince wants
to put a townie bike drivetrain on a mountain bike.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Why do you think my "townie bike drivetrain" will not be durable? How
are you judging durability?

Vince said:

Quoted message said:

Pete uses that German monstrosity that weighs five pounds and is
specifically designed for mountain bikes (i.e. durability). Vince wants
to put a townie bike drivetrain on a mountain bike.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Why do you think my "townie bike drivetrain" will not be durable? How
are you judging durability?

Those hubs are built with thin aluminum. Water, dirt, and mud WILL get
in them and quickly. That plus the excessive shifting one does on a
mountain bike, the weight distribution of the wheels/rims against the
hub on uneven surfaces, and the "softness" of the components inside the
hub will wear quite quickly. There is a reason those things are NOT
used on mountain bikes, even Walgooses.

I really don't care what you spend your money on. If you want
inexpensive yet durable, then get a low-end SRAM drivetrain. It will
cost as much as the SA group and probably last 10 times longer.

My .2 worth. No warranties are expressed or implied.

Be forewarned that when other A.M-Bers get a hold of this thread you
will be Barnified for an eternity.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Ride-A-Lot said:

Vince said:

Quoted message said:

Pete uses that German monstrosity that weighs five pounds and is
specifically designed for mountain bikes (i.e. durability). Vince wants
to put a townie bike drivetrain on a mountain bike.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Why do you think my "townie bike drivetrain" will not be durable? How
are you judging durability?

Those hubs are built with thin aluminum. Water, dirt, and mud WILL get
in them and quickly. That plus the excessive shifting one does on a
mountain bike, the weight distribution of the wheels/rims against the
hub on uneven surfaces, and the "softness" of the components inside the
hub will wear quite quickly. There is a reason those things are NOT
used on mountain bikes, even Walgooses.

I really don't care what you spend your money on. If you want
inexpensive yet durable, then get a low-end SRAM drivetrain. It will
cost as much as the SA group and probably last 10 times longer.

My .2 worth. No warranties are expressed or implied.

Be forewarned that when other A.M-Bers get a hold of this thread you
will be Barnified for an eternity.

I for one am interested to hear how all of this turns out. I've
considered a similar build and got a similar reaction. It may or may not
be warranted, but if the hub could take it (and this seems to be the
point of contention) having a horizontal dropout (single speed) frame
with a internal hub could be a neat solution. Or a boat anchor.
Let us know how it goes and good luck.

Matt

Vince said:

Why do you think my "townie bike drivetrain" will not be durable? How
are you judging durability?

Mitch probably doesn't have the experience or the weight to pass
judgement on the viability of a SA hub in the dirt, but I do. I have
been riding in the dirt a long time and have torn up more bike parts
than probably anyone on this NG. Were they torn up from being a
thrasher rider? Maybe ten years ago, but most parts have been torn up
due to heavy use and my weight. The last time I ran a SA hub was when
I was a teenager. I stood on the pedals with my whopping 165 lbs often
and tore a SA up in a year. If I was stupid enough to try that on a
mountain bike at my current 225, it might last a month. Good luck.

JD

Ride-A-Lot said:

Those hubs are built with thin aluminum.

Most Sturmey Archer hubs don't contain any aluminium at all, they are
made entirely of steel. Some modern hubs have aluminium shells which
are no thinner than the aluminium used on mountain bike hubs the
internal components are still made of steel..

Quoted message said:

Water, dirt, and mud WILL get in them and quickly.

Having worked with these hubs for many years, taking them apart and
repairing them I know that they are fully sealed and nothing will get
in. Every failure I have seen has been due to neglect (i.e. no oil)

Quoted message said:

That plus the excessive shifting one does on a mountain bike,

Might be a valid argument although with a smaller selection of gears
there may be less gear shifting.

Quoted message said:

the weight distribution of the wheels/rims against the hub on uneven surfaces,

Your derailleur rear wheel is dished (i.e. unevenly tensioned) and is
therefore weaker than a hub gear wheel

Quoted message said:

and the "softness" of the components inside the hub will wear quite quickly.

Not true, as my 56 year old hub on my road bike and the perfectly
running 21 year old hub which I am fitting to my mountain bike will
testify.

Quoted message said:

There is a reason those things are NOT used on mountain bikes, even Walgooses.

I'm still waiting to hear that reason, nobody seems to know.

JD said:

Vince said:

Why do you think my "townie bike drivetrain" will not be durable? How
are you judging durability?

Mitch probably doesn't have the experience or the weight to pass
judgement on the viability of a SA hub in the dirt, but I do. I have
been riding in the dirt a long time and have torn up more bike parts
than probably anyone on this NG. Were they torn up from being a
thrasher rider? Maybe ten years ago, but most parts have been torn up
due to heavy use and my weight. The last time I ran a SA hub was when
I was a teenager. I stood on the pedals with my whopping 165 lbs often
and tore a SA up in a year. If I was stupid enough to try that on a
mountain bike at my current 225, it might last a month. Good luck.

JD

This is the first time I ever heard of someone wrecking a Sturmey
Archer gear through riding it. Do you know which component(s) in the
gear failed?

I weigh a bit less than you so maybe I'll be ok.

My father, who was a powerful track rider wrecked equipment all the
time. He never had any trouble with Sturmey Archer gears.

Vince said:

Not true, as my 56 year old hub on my road bike and the perfectly
running 21 year old hub which I am fitting to my mountain bike will
testify.

Quoted message said:

There is a reason those things are NOT used on mountain bikes, even Walgooses.

I'm still waiting to hear that reason, nobody seems to know.

OK, I get it now. You work for SA and are trying to re-introduce the
world to the product. 😉

Like I said, whatever you want to do is fine with me. It's your time
and money, not mine. Good luck.

I solved all your problems today by gearing my SS at 32/20. No
derailleur. No internally geared hub. :P

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Vince said:

I'm still waiting to hear that reason, nobody seems to know.

http://www.hadland.me.uk/elegy.htm

Read the part titled, "Mountain Bikes".

Cheers!

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Vince said:

After many miles on my derraileur gears I have decided they must go. I

have now started to convert my mountain bike to hub gears. Initially
I will install a Sturmey Archer AW 3 speed hub. Later, when finances
allow, I will buy one of the new 8 speed, drum brake rear hubs with a
drum brake, dynamo front hub.

I believe I will end up with a much more practical bike both for
commuting and for fun.

Has anybody else tried hub gearing on a mountain bike? Any comments? HEAVY they are,bullet proof 99.9%. I have an 1983 model Sturney Archer still no death yet. Back in 67 and in the same city I rode a Dunlop 3 speed Sturney Archer. 1st grear would skip and throw you over the handlebars. I learned to start out in 2nd gear but my brother didn't till he went down on his chin.

Thanks for pointing me to that article. I agree with a lot of what the
writer says but not everythimg.

The two arguments used against the use of hub gearing:

Quote from article:
"If the hub is not in adjustment and you are riding in either normal or
high, the gear can unexpectedly go into a "no gear" intermediate
position between the gears."

Why on earth would I ride a hub which is not adjusted properly?

If my derailleur is out of adjustment it can wreck itself and my back
wheel all in one simple gear change. Is that considered a defect of
derailleur gearing?

Quote from article:
"Another problem was gearing; S-A recommended that the rear sprocket be
no larger than 22 tooth be used (presumably with a 46 tooth chainwheel)
giving a 54 inch (4.3m) normal with a low of 41 inches (3.3m)."

Yes I am limited by the sprockets that are availble but I don't see any
reason not to use a smaller chainwheel. I will start by using my
existing 42 tooth chainwheel and I will buy a smaller one if I feel I'm
too highly geared.

Vince said:

Thanks for pointing me to that article. I agree with a lot of what the
writer says but not everythimg.

It seems like you want some sort of validation for your decision.

Quoted message said:

The two arguments used against the use of hub gearing:

Quote from article:
"If the hub is not in adjustment and you are riding in either normal or
high, the gear can unexpectedly go into a "no gear" intermediate
position between the gears."

Why on earth would I ride a hub which is not adjusted properly?

Because it comes out of adjustment on a ride?

Quoted message said:

Quote from article:
"Another problem was gearing; S-A recommended that the rear sprocket be
no larger than 22 tooth be used (presumably with a 46 tooth chainwheel)
giving a 54 inch (4.3m) normal with a low of 41 inches (3.3m)."

Yes I am limited by the sprockets that are availble but I don't see any
reason not to use a smaller chainwheel.

You don't? Ever heard of that thing called "torque"? When you use a
smaller chainwheel, do you think more or less torque will be applied on
the hub? Mountain bikes have more robust gearing set-ups for a reason.
Mountain bikes have overall smaller gear ratios for a reason.

Please, use a SA hub. Then report back how much you used it before it
failed. It'll be an interesting comparison to a real MTB gearhub.

E.P.

I'm not really looking for validation. I already have the bike
stripped of derailleur stuff now and will be retracking the rear
tomorrow to take the new hub.

My only reason for starting this thread is to generate some discussion
about hub gears.

I know from many, many miles of riding that, on the road, hub gears
work extremely well and will not usually go out of adjustment.

I have never used them off-road so, to be honest, I don't know how well
they will perform in that situation. I don't see any reason why my hub
won't perform and I don't see any real reason not to try it.

Your comment about torque is an interesting one. A larger chainwheel
could indeed be better but the chainwheel I just took off had a 24
tooth smallest ring and I don't intend to go that small so it seems I
might be making an improvement there too.

Vince said:

I know from many, many miles of riding that, on the road, hub gears
work extremely well and will not usually go out of adjustment.

The road and the dirt are two very different places, my little britty
friend.

JD