Hypercracker redux

Gatsaag. said:

Sheldon Brown Said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

We sell worldwide,

Quoted message said:

Will you ship to south africa?

I guess geography instruction is lacking in South Africa.

--
Ted Bennett Portland OR

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Frank X said:

I've never observed that a finger tight lockring allows the sprockets to move enough to cause any
shifting (or other?) problems. Is this what you

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

saying could happen?

Looking at the chain-line, there's a reasonable out-of-plane component, so I can understand why
Shimano recommend a torque for the lockring. I follow their advice. Especially on 9-speed, where
tolerances seem to be tight anyway (I can be a couple of clicks out on the SIS adjustment on my
8-speed with no problems, but the 9-speed must be precisely right or it doesn't shift properly).

Yep, I do only have an 8-speed.

Ted Bennett said:

Gatsaag. said:

Sheldon Brown Said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

We sell worldwide,

Quoted message said:

Will you ship to south africa?

I guess geography instruction is lacking in South Africa.

ok, how about Cuba?

--
Marten

Frank X said:

But the lock ring isn't really under load. On a shimano hyperglide the load is taken by the ridges
on the hub, not the lock ring. Only a very minimal force is at virtually right angles to the plane
of the chain.

I've never observed that a finger tight lockring allows the sprockets to move enough to cause any
shifting (or other?) problems. Is this what you are saying could happen?

I've had lockrings come loose - at least, I've had a cassette develop an rattle that was cured by
tightening the lockring. However, as you say it isn't really under a load and I doubt that the
rattle was in imminent danger of causing a real problem.

On a related issue, I've had a couple of cassettes where there is a very thin metal "spacer/washer"
fitted between the lockring and the top cog. This actually sits between the knurled surfaces and
thus prevents them interlocking tightly, although the metal spacer is so thin (flexible) that the
system still seems to work ok. Is this actually supposed to be installed, or was it a mistake of
some sort? IIRC one of the cassettes actually came installed on a wheel like this, I only
discovered it later.

James

Just zis Guy said:

I bought one at my LBS last year! It was a bit dusty mind...

There was one clearly visible on the racks at Future Cycles when I picked up Cosimo The Stealth
Baron in Feb. 2001. I wonder if it's still there...

--

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

Quoted message said:

David L. Johnson said:

Nice. Campy version?

Pete Biggs said:

I don't know about the Hypercracker but cassette lockring tools in general can fit both Shimano
and most 8/9/10sp Campagnolo as spline patterns are compatible. New Centaur/Chorus/Record hubs
require the tool wall to be thin to clear the freehub nut - so some chunkier-made tools don't suit
as their internal diameter is too small.

Although they will work in a pinch, especially when worn, Campagnolo kept to the older squarish
splined pattern while Shimano changed theirs. Shimano freewheels still use the broader pattern.
Hard to describe but when you see the chromed Campagnolo tool between old and new Shimano it
should be clear:

yellowjersey.orgSPLITOOL.JPGOpen ↗

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

Pete Biggs said:

I don't know about the Hypercracker but cassette lockring tools in general can fit both Shimano
and most 8/9/10sp Campagnolo as spline patterns are compatible. New Centaur/Chorus/Record hubs
require the tool wall to be thin to clear the freehub nut - so some chunkier-made tools don't
suit as their internal diameter is too small.

Although they will work in a pinch, especially when worn,

Some tools fit the Chorus lockring but not when it's on the hub because there's a nut in the way. I
had to return one of these (forgotton what brand). Inside of tool doesn't wear so worn tools will be
no better. This particular problem is to do with *internal* diameter not the splines. It's a
confusing issue because some other tools do not fit because their splines are different (outside
diameter too large), and some others do fit despite their splines being different!

Quoted message said:

Campagnolo kept to the older squarish splined pattern while Shimano changed theirs. Shimano
freewheels still use the broader pattern. Hard to describe but when you see the chromed Campagnolo
tool between old and new Shimano it should be clear:

yellowjersey.orgSPLITOOL.JPGOpen ↗

Good picture.

cheers ~PB

James Annan said:

On a related issue, I've had a couple of cassettes where there is a very thin metal
"spacer/washer" fitted between the lockring and the top cog. This actually sits between the
knurled surfaces and thus prevents them interlocking tightly, although the metal spacer is so thin
(flexible) that the system still seems to work ok. Is this actually supposed to be installed, or
was it a mistake of some sort? IIRC one of the cassettes actually came installed on a wheel like
this, I only discovered it later.

The thin washer is normally used with some Shimano cassettes. Sorry I don't know more about them.
Can any other readers explain what it's for?

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

James Annan said:

On a related issue, I've had a couple of cassettes where there is a very thin metal
"spacer/washer" fitted between the lockring and the top cog. This actually sits between the
knurled surfaces and thus prevents them interlocking tightly, although the metal spacer is so
thin (flexible) that the system still seems to work ok. Is this actually supposed to be
installed, or was it a mistake of some sort? IIRC one of the cassettes actually came installed on
a wheel like this, I only discovered it later.

The thin washer is normally used with some Shimano cassettes. Sorry I don't know more about them.
Can any other readers explain what it's for?

~PB

Neither of my Ultegra cassettes have this thin washer.

--
The Reply & From email addresses are checked rarely. mseries.freeserve.co.ukmseries.freeserve.co.ukOpen ↗

MSeries said:

Quoted message said:

The thin washer is normally used with some Shimano cassettes. Sorry I don't know more about them.
Can any other readers explain what it's for?

Quoted message said:

Neither of my Ultegra cassettes have this thin washer.

I think some 8-speed cassettes have them. It could bulk out the cassette but I would have thought it
makes more sense to shim under the largest cog instead if that is necessary.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

MSeries said:

Quoted message said:

The thin washer is normally used with some Shimano cassettes. Sorry I don't know more about
them. Can any other readers explain what it's for?

Quoted message said:

Neither of my Ultegra cassettes have this thin washer.

I think some 8-speed cassettes have them. It could bulk out the cassette but I would have thought
it makes more sense to shim under the largest cog instead if that is necessary.

~PB

Maybe, I have never had an 8 speed, my Ults are 9s and I have 6 & 7 UG ones (on HG bodies)

--
The Reply & From email addresses are checked rarely. mseries.freeserve.co.ukmseries.freeserve.co.ukOpen ↗

Pete Biggs said:

I think some 8-speed cassettes have them. It could bulk out the cassette but I would have thought
it makes more sense to shim under the largest cog instead if that is necessary.

It does nothing to the cog spacing, and I'm not talking about the thin spacers that can sometimes be
found between cogs (which at a guess are related to the minor differences in cog spacing between
different numbers of gears). This is a much thinner, truly flimsy bit of metal. The only thing it
can "bulk out" by a minuscule amount is the lockring, and I can't see any point in that. The only
wild guess I can make as to its purpose is that the thin flexible layer adds some springiness and
thus reduces any likelihood of the lockring rattling loose.

James

"James Annan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Pete Biggs said:

I think some 8-speed cassettes have them. It could bulk out the

cassette

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but I would have thought it makes more sense to shim under the largest

cog

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

instead if that is necessary.

It does nothing to the cog spacing, and I'm not talking about the thin spacers that can sometimes
be found between cogs (which at a guess are related to the minor differences in cog spacing
between different numbers of gears). This is a much thinner, truly flimsy bit of metal. The only
thing it can "bulk out" by a minuscule amount is the lockring, and I can't see any point in that.
The only wild guess I can make as to its purpose is that the thin flexible layer adds some
springiness and thus reduces any likelihood of the lockring rattling loose.

IME it makes it a bit nicer to turn (less notchy) - maybe it makes a torque wrench more accurate.

cheers, clive

On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 20:12:48 +0100, M-Gineering import & framebouw
<"kijk maar op m-gineering.nl als je het echt wil"@wet.en> may have

Quoted message said:

Ted Bennett said:

Gatsaag. said:

Sheldon Brown Said:

Quoted message said:

> We sell worldwide,

Quoted message said:

Will you ship to south africa?

I guess geography instruction is lacking in South Africa.

ok, how about Cuba?

Harris is on the wrong side of the Canadian border to do that just yet.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Yes, I have a killfile. If I don't respond to something,
it's also possible that I'm busy.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Sheldon Brown said:

Although the Pamir Hypercracker is one with Nineveh and Tyre, J.A. Stein has just introduced a
new, improved version.

sheldonbrown.comstein mini lockOpen ↗

Will it also work on the new Shimano discs, that are splined? For instance the XTR hub and disc.
--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Frank X said:

"Sheldon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Although the Pamir Hypercracker is one with Nineveh and Tyre, J.A. Stein has just introduced a
new, improved version.

sheldonbrown.comstein mini lockOpen ↗

What is the problem with just doing the lockring up finger tight, with a cassette tool, I never
use a chain whip or a spanner.

My lockring has never come undone.

Mine did on an Ultegra nine speed. When I shifted to the 12,13 or 14 cog the cogs just spun around
and I had no drive. As soon as I went back to 15 my bike started moving again. I had to finish the
last 45 minutes of a race that way. When I took the bike to my LBS next day he just tightened it
again and I was fine. I still don't understand how three cogs could have slid off the splines when
the wheel was attached??? Come to think of it, maybe they didn't. The chain probably just landed
right between the cogs since they were loose and rattling.
--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Dave Larrington said:

Just zis Guy said:

I bought one at my LBS last year! It was a bit dusty mind...

There was one clearly visible on the racks at Future Cycles when I picked up Cosimo The Stealth
Baron in Feb. 2001. I wonder if it's still there...

Didn't see it on 2nd January 2004 when I was hunting Proofride. Mind you they've changed shops
inbetween timers.

Tim
--
Blue Witch laughed at me

MSeries <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Pete Biggs said:

James Annan said:

On a related issue, I've had a couple of cassettes where there is a very thin metal
"spacer/washer" fitted between the lockring and the top cog. Is this actually supposed to be
installed, or was it a mistake of some sort?

The thin washer is normally used with some Shimano cassettes. Sorry I don't know more about
them. Can any other readers explain what it's for?

Neither of my Ultegra cassettes have this thin washer.

All of my Ultegra cassettes have had it. It's not loose, but attached to the inside face of
the lockring.

Andrew

Werehatrack said:

<"kijk maar op m-gineering.nl als je het echt wil"@wet.en> may have

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Sheldon Brown Said:
>>We sell worldwide,

ok, how about Cuba?

Harris is on the wrong side of the Canadian border to do that just yet.

Even on the right side of the border, he'd better be willing to stay there. When the land of the
"free" isn't shipping Canadians off to Syria to be tortured, it's quite happy to lock them up for
things they did in Canada that are perfectly legal there.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Kill the tomato!

David Damerell <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Werehatrack said:

<"kijk maar op m-gineering.nl als je het echt wil"@wet.en> may have

Quoted message said:

>>Sheldon Brown Said:
>>>We sell worldwide,
ok, how about Cuba?

Harris is on the wrong side of the Canadian border to do that just yet.

Even on the right side of the border, he'd better be willing to stay there. When the land of the
"free" isn't shipping Canadians off to Syria to be tortured, it's quite happy to lock them up for
things they did in Canada that are perfectly legal there.

Dear David,

"Keep it off .tech, eh?"

(Actually, I liked reading it, but couldn't resist quoting you.)

Carl Fogel