Indecision

Ether one of those bicycles... and a chance for RAGBRAI. Life is GOOD.

They both seem to have similar component packages, your best bet is to ride both for at least 5 miles.

But for the $1100 price range you can get Ultegra driveline and Sram at Bikes Direct; and way if interested see this a vast selection: bikesdirect.comroad bikes.htmOpen ↗ Shipping to the lower 48 states is included without additional cost.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by Froze [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

But for the $1100 price range you can get Ultegra driveline and Sram at Bikes Direct; and way if interested see this a vast selection: bikesdirect.comroad bikes.htmOpen ↗ Shipping to the lower 48 states is included without additional cost.

I am a big proponent of the LBS for service and information. But man.... those Bike Direct prices are very "checkbook friendly".

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by Dave Cutter [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

I am a big proponent of the LBS for service and information. But man.... those Bike Direct prices are very "checkbook friendly".

Especially the higher up the price scale you go, the better the deal. Check out their line of titanium bikes, they have road, century, and cross ti bikes and you can't beat those prices short of paying another 2 thousand to get the same components. I've had my eye on the Motobecane LeChamp SL Ti for a year now, but being of a fiscal conservative mindset I haven't gotten past the point of wanting something vs needing something, and I really don't need it, I just want it!!! I even "convinced" a friend to look at it and he ended up getting the LeChampion Team Ti model; I was able to ride his and it's fantastic bike and ride.

If you are new to cycling I would recommend you go the LBS route. BD has deals galore but if the bike don't fit or you have an issue you will be up the creek without a paddle. BD is not noted for their customer service. The best time to create a good relationship with your LBS is when you are looking to buy a bike. They can guide you through the process.

Out of the two the CAAD 8 may be a better option for touring seeing as it has a triple crank. Both bikes have Tiagra components so there is no difference there. Overall the best bike would be the one the fits the best and appeals to you. So take them both out for a test ride and get the one you are happiest riding.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by davereo [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

BD has deals galore but if the bike don't fit or you have an issue you will be up the creek without a paddle. BD is not noted for their customer service.

First off and most important, I've been on many forums like this one, and I've heard of a few people who have had warranty issues with a bike they bought from BD, and not one person with a legit warranty issue ever went away upset. And that fact bears out with BD's 99.4% satisfaction rate. I doubt most LBS's have that high of a satisfaction rate. Fortunately BD's quality control is high enough that I've only read of 2 legit warranty issues and all were resolved to the satisfaction faction of the consumer.

Fit issue can be a issue, but if the bike doesn't fit you simply return it including postage and they send another in the size you want., but that has only happened once on the 5 or 6 forums I've read. So the fit issue has been a rare problem. But if you want to be an [censored] about this, I've seen plenty of bike shops sell a unaware buyer a bike that didn't fit them and told the buyer that's the way their suppose to fit!! Just so the LBS could clear their inventory of older models. In fact I bought a bike used from a guy who bought the bike new and the top bar was a inch and half PAST his crotch and was told that's the way all race bikes fit. He rode it 5 miles and hated it so he stored it never again to ride it. And the receipt for the bike showed it was a closeout model, and he said it was the last one they had at a closeout discount. I can give you more examples of LBS's screwing customers over fit but space and time won't allow it.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by Froze [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

First off and most important, I've been on many forums like this one, and I've heard of a few people who have had warranty issues with a bike they bought from BD, and not one person with a legit warranty issue ever went away upset. And that fact bears out with BD's 99.4% satisfaction rate. I doubt most LBS's have that high of a satisfaction rate. Fortunately BD's quality control is high enough that I've only read of 2 legit warranty issues and all were resolved to the satisfaction faction of the consumer.

Fit issue can be a issue, but if the bike doesn't fit you simply return it including postage and they send another in the size you want., but that has only happened once on the 5 or 6 forums I've read. So the fit issue has been a rare problem. But if you want to be an [censored] about this, I've seen plenty of bike shops sell a unaware buyer a bike that didn't fit them and told the buyer that's the way their suppose to fit!! Just so the LBS could clear their inventory of older models. In fact I bought a bike used from a guy who bought the bike new and the top bar was a inch and half PAST his crotch and was told that's the way all race bikes fit. He rode it 5 miles and hated it so he stored it never again to ride it. And the receipt for the bike showed it was a closeout model, and he said it was the last one they had at a closeout discount. I can give you more examples of LBS's screwing customers over fit but space and time won't allow it.

Coming from a poster that blast Chinese bike manufacturing, carbon fiber and aluminum frames. So if you want to be an "[censored] ABOUT IT" post your review when you finally buy your mail order TI bike from China.

My life experience at the LBS has always been outstanding. I walk in they know who I am and treat me well. Why just last week my daughter gave me a trailer for me to pull my grandaughter around in. My rear skewer was not long enough to accommodate the hitch. I went to my LBS and inquired about buying a longer skewer. Bob walked into the back and came out with one that fit perfectly. He gave it to me free of charge.

BTW posting an opinion on a subject contrary to one others doesn't constitute being an [censored].

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by davereo [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Coming from a poster that blast Chinese bike manufacturing, carbon fiber and aluminum frames. So if you want to be an "[censored] ABOUT IT" post your review when you finally buy your mail order TI bike from China.

My life experience at the LBS has always been outstanding. I walk in they know who I am and treat me well. Why just last week my daughter gave me a trailer for me to pull my grandaughter around in. My rear skewer was not long enough to accommodate the hitch. I went to my LBS and inquired about buying a longer skewer. Bob walked into the back and came out with one that fit perfectly. He gave it to me free of charge.

BTW posting an opinion on a subject contrary to one others doesn't constitute being an [censored].

Most of the BD bikes come from Taiwan, not China, and ALL of the TI bikes come from Taiwan and Taiwan factories are western cultured unlike China's, again your heading hunting BD as aways.

I never said all LBS's were bad, I said some are and I stand by that. And most LBS bikes do in fact come from China.

So you went and got something for free at an LBS, I notice you didn't mention you tipped them. So you go into a LBS year after year paying at least 30% over internet prices and they give you a $8 skewer retail that probably cost then $5, you more then paid for that skewer over the years.

And no, your opinion is not about an opinion based on even the slightest degree of facts so your opinion is not a contrary opinion but one full of slanderous remarks of BD full of errors and ZERO facts, so yes your still an [censored] when it comes to comments concerning BD. Did you notice I said your comments concerning BD and not referring to you personally just as I did in my first comments toward you in this regard. So go ahead and take it personal, but you need to read better with comprehension then you'll discover I wasn't referring to you as a person being an [censored].

When comparing bicycles in todays marketplace it is a little like discussing whether Rambo could beat up Rocky. The same technologies are universally used from metals to frame design. Even the component parts are purchased from the same companies. Much of this stuff is made by contract and it makes little, if any difference what company, or country/origin was used.

There has never been a greater variety of types or styles of bicycles on the market. Yet... there also has never been such ubiquitousness in the bicycle itself. The State Department and it's negotiated international trade agreements has contributed more to the decision of where my next bike will be made than I can.

What makes a difference in riding ability is: Training, skill, and desire. It is, always has been, and always will be the legs that matters... not the bicycle. It will be the OP's legs that pedals him/her across Iowa... not the bicycle. It doesn't take a special bicycle to ride RAGBRAI.... it takes a special person.

I don't know of any bicycle shop I would trust with selecting a bicycle for me. Nor... do I know of any shop I would not seek help and advice from. The more I ride and the more repairs and maintenance I perform for myself the less I feel a need for the LBS. And yet strangely the bond I feel with the folks at the shop seems even stronger.

I need the LBS's (even when I don't need them) and by extension... I need the products they sell. Because without sales there will be no LBS's. And once you can no longer expect to find a quality bicycle at a local store... don't expect to find one on-line ether.

I sure hope this doesn't get me in the middle of a pissing contest.... my prostrate is a tad old for that.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by Dave Cutter [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

When comparing bicycles in todays marketplace it is a little like discussing whether Rambo could beat up Rocky. The same technologies are universally used from metals to frame design. Even the component parts are purchased from the same companies. Much of this stuff is made by contract and it makes little, if any difference what company, or country/origin was used.

There has never been a greater variety of types or styles of bicycles on the market. Yet... there also has never been such ubiquitousness in the bicycle itself. The State Department and it's negotiated international trade agreements has contributed more to the decision of where my next bike will be made than I can.

What makes a difference in riding ability is: Training, skill, and desire. It is, always has been, and always will be the legs that matters... not the bicycle. It will be the OP's legs that pedals him/her across Iowa... not the bicycle. It doesn't take a special bicycle to ride RAGBRAI.... it takes a special person.

I don't know of any bicycle shop I would trust with selecting a bicycle for me. Nor... do I know of any shop I would not seek help and advice from. The more I ride and the more repairs and maintenance I perform for myself the less I feel a need for the LBS. And yet strangely the bond I feel with the folks at the shop seems even stronger.

I need the LBS's (even when I don't need them) and by extension... I need the products they sell. Because without sales there will be no LBS's. And once you can no longer expect to find a quality bicycle at a local store... don't expect to find one on-line ether.

I sure hope this doesn't get me in the middle of a pissing contest.... my prostrate is a tad old for that.

Not a pissing contest because your not being slanderous as one poster was, your just expressing an opinion right or wrong, maybe neither.

And now for my opinion, right or wrong, maybe neither of course. I don't agree with your statement where you say: "without sales there will be no LBS's, and once you can no longer expect to find a quality bicycle at a local store...don't expect to find one on-line either". Reason I don't agree is because competition is competition regardless what form it takes. If all the LBS's went out of business due to on-line sales, the on-line companies would have to be able to offer a quality product and quality service in an attempt to beat other on-line sellers. This fact is happening today even with LBS's still in business. All sorts of internet houses are selling factory made bikes to consumers all over the world and they have to (or at least should) offer fantastic customer service because they know that there are forums like this one where one upset customer can spread poor reviews of the company to literally 100,000's of thousands of people all over the world. And if there's more then one complaint it will eventually lead to poor sales and the company going out of business or radically changing the way they do business to try to win customers back. And there will always be custom bike builders, just as there are today, all trying to offer a superior product to the consumer vs factory made. But in reality, LBS's overwhelmingly sell more bikes then on-line companies, so LBS's will never go out of business in masses leaving consumers to do business only on-line.

By the way, that's the only statement you said I disagreed with, everything else you said I agreed with. Again not saying my opinion of your statement is more right then yours, it's just an opinion.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by Froze [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Not a pissing contest because your not being slanderous as one poster was, your just expressing an opinion right or wrong, maybe neither.

And now for my opinion, right or wrong, maybe neither of course. I don't agree with your statement where you say: "without sales there will be no LBS's, and once you can no longer expect to find a quality bicycle at a local store...don't expect to find one on-line either". Reason I don't agree is because competition is competition regardless what form it takes. If all the LBS's went out of business due to on-line sales, the on-line companies would have to be able to offer a quality product and quality service in an attempt to beat other on-line sellers. This fact is happening today even with LBS's still in business. All sorts of internet houses are selling factory made bikes to consumers all over the world and they have to (or at least should) offer fantastic customer service because they know that there are forums like this one where one upset customer can spread poor reviews of the company to literally 100,000's of thousands of people all over the world. And if there's more then one complaint it will eventually lead to poor sales and the company going out of business or radically changing the way they do business to try to win customers back. And there will always be custom bike builders, just as there are today, all trying to offer a superior product to the consumer vs factory made. But in reality, LBS's overwhelmingly sell more bikes then on-line companies, so LBS's will never go out of business in masses leaving consumers to do business only on-line.

By the way, that's the only statement you said I disagreed with, everything else you said I agreed with. Again not saying my opinion of your statement is more right then yours, it's just an opinion.

Slanderous?

If you are new to cycling I would recommend you go the LBS route. BD has deals galore but if the bike don't fit or you have an issue you will be up the creek without a paddle. BD is not noted for their customer service. The best time to create a good relationship with your LBS is when you are looking to buy a bike. They can guide you through the process.

Out of the two the CAAD 8 may be a better option for touring seeing as it has a triple crank. Both bikes have Tiagra components so there is no difference there. Overall the best bike would be the one the fits the best and appeals to you. So take them both out for a test ride and get the one you are happiest riding.

Is this your definition of a slanderous statement? Since when are you the Attorney General of the Forums?

davereo said:

If you are new to cycling I would recommend you go the LBS route. BD has deals galore but if the bike don't fit or you have an issue you will be up the creek without a paddle. BD is not noted for their customer service. The best time to create a good relationship with your LBS is when you are looking to buy a bike. They can guide you through the process.

+1. As for the slanderous BS.......why are people throwing around the "slanderous" word? Isn't that a bit over the top?

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by Froze [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]
I don't agree with your statement where you say: "without sales there will be no LBS's, and once you can no longer expect to find a quality bicycle at a local store...don't expect to find one on-line either". Reason I don't agree is because competition is competition regardless what form it takes. If all the LBS's went out of business due to on-line sales, the on-line companies would have to be able to offer a quality product and quality service in an attempt to beat other on-line sellers.

You could be right!

There are a handful of products that are only available on line. But... few made in any volume that I can think of. Does society need brick and mortar stores? No. Will sales of most items fall if marketed only on line? Yes. I think so and I think there is plenty of evidence to support that idea as well.

I know a bicycle shop (or any store or any business) needs a certain amount of volume to make enough profit to keep the heat on and the doors open. And... from my own experience... I know so do factories. I know by the old before-the-Internet rules.... stores generate interest and sales.

I think the LBS's still generate interest for the higher end type of bicycles many adults want for our sport. Of course Lance Armstrong was great for the sport. And give a hand to high gasoline prices for helping the LBS's with sales as well. Nether will be a marketing tool forever.

But, if I couldn't buy a quality bicycle at a local store would I lay out the money on line for one? Let me think. I trust the Internet for purchases so there isn't a problem there. But if I could only buy a quality bicycle through on line vendors, and there was no LBS available to do repairs or adjustments. Wouldn't that make me my own mechanic? Don't you think that might deter many (if not nearly every) new cyclist from the higher end bicycles. After all, if a bicycle can't be repaired by a trusted local professional... maybe a big-box bicycle would be a safer purchase. And once sales drop... what keeps the factories making high-end bikes... government bailouts?

As cyclists... we need stores that sell the products and services we use. It just isn't all that complicated.

Came across your thread and thought I'd share my experience:

There's nothing wrong with going either the LBS or BikesDirect route. in 2001 I bought my road bike from LBS and in 2004 bought my mountain bike from LBS.

This fall I bought my Motobecane CX bike this fall from BikesDirect, trained on it, road it in 5-6 races, and then, throughout the winter months I commuted 80-120 miles a week and trained on it and my only beef is that it came with cheap tires that will flat it you look at them wrong (bought a good set of heavy, unbeatable commuting tires and cross tires from my LBS to the tune of $200 for all four, problem solved). I had a tight budget as well (spent $1000 on the bike and $300 on pedals and shoes). I don't feel guilty about not buying my bike at LBS because I: spent $150 on a bike and cleat fit, $75 to finish assembly, $140 on shoes, $100 on handlebar (because I needed a 44cm and it came with a 42cm) and four months later I spent $250 on full tuneup and odds and ends. I also spent another $120 on lights, bottle cage, and other odds and ends at another LBS. This spring I decided to upgrade my road bike from my archaic Trek from 2001. I looked at end of year sales at LBS and either they were the wrong size (I need a very common 54cm size and the 48cm or 62cm on sale is waiting for someone freakishly small or tall, not me). My budget was $2000 but crept up to $2700. Did months of research and wound up not being able to deny that once again, at least for my needs and wants, Bikesdirect had what I wanted. I bought a Motobecane LeChamp with 6770 ULTEGRA Di2 which arrived last week. This weekend I'm giving one of the many LBS in my area: $150 fit, $100 handlebars, $75 assembly, and $100 odds and ends post fit.

Total business I've given to my LBSs in past 8 months: $1760 (second set of peddles, tubes, socks, little odds and ends let out from above)
Total Business I gave Bikesdirect: $3700 for both bikes
Total business I gave competitive cyclist: $400 for helmet, pedals and odds and ends

I also don't want my LBS to go out of business so I support them in many ways. But, here in Portland, OR we have tons of LBS, all doing very well, and we even had a new one open up last year that is doing well. I tell all the hobby riders I know to get a fit from the same LBS I got mine at because it was obvious they cared about getting me fit properly as much as I did. I also tell people who know very little about what type of bike to buy to visit tons of LBS, look on line, ask yourself what are you going to do with this bike, and then in the end, do what feels right for you.

If you have measured yourself in detail (two or three times with the help of someone) and feel confident you know what size of bike to go with, my opinion is go the BikesDirect route (just note that you will need to get a fit and you might need to switch out handlebars and stack to make it fit you like a glove). If that process makes you nervous and If you see a good end of year deal at your LBS, go for it. It just happened that after all my research it boiled down to: why would I buy the same Madone that 300 other people have in town with lower SRAM Rival or maybe Force if I get lucky with a good deal when I could spend the same money and get 6770 ultegra Di2 (or skip the Di2 and get 7900)

That's my two cents. Good luck.

What the heck is going on with this forum? A short while ago I would post and then next think I knew many copies of the post came up, then last couple of weeks I couldn't edit my posts, now this week I cannot comment on a particular post. Weird.

Alienator; yes Davereo is being slanderous. Anytime anyone mentions Bikes Direct he comes out of the woodwork and attacks BD, which would be fine if he had facts and proof, but he never has any facts and/or proof, just words he makes up. That is slanderous by it's very definition, in case you forgot what the word means, here is what it means according to the Free Dictionary: "A false and malicious statement or report about someone." and: "oral defamation, in which someone tells one or more persons an untruth about another which untruth will harm the reputation of the person defamed". Sorry, I know you like Davereo which is cool, so do I, though he probably doesn't believe it, I just don't like it when someone comes out and attacts a person or a place of business with no facts or proof to back up what their saying. I would even accept it to some degree by taking his word for it if he had personally had a problem doing business with BD, but he's never done business with them so he has no first hand experience either. I never had any battles with Davero in the past so in general I don't have any issues with him nor dislike the guy.

See what happens... You don't pick the Cannondale and grown men cry like [censored] and Internetz Warz break out.

CAAD is your friend.

Buy the Cannondale and enjoy the ride.

Sarcasm aside, I bought a Cannondale SuperSix Hi-Mod a couple of years ago. The CAAD9 wasn't that much different on the test ride and from all the bikes I'd tested - the best of Look, Cervelo, Colnago, Trek, Time, Specialized, Merckx etc etc - the CAAD 9 was up there with them. The SuperSix wasn't massively different but it was a 40th birthday present and embodied the bike I wish I could have had when I was fit enough to do it justice...

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by elanzarotta [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

I finally have decided I need to just buy a new bike since I will be participating in RAGBRAI, depending on the lottery drawing.

My budget is limiting me to certain types. I am shooting for an aluminum frame with a carbon fork or full carbon(due to my budget this isn't likely.

The two I am trying to decide between two right now; and they are:

trekbikes.com1 5Open ↗

or

montgomerycyclery.com11cannondale caad8 6 triple 73841 1.htmOpen ↗

Does anyone have any opinions on these two bikes or reviews? Also are there any other suggestions anyone might have that would fit a budget around $1,200?

Thanks for all the help in advance,

Eric

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by davereo [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

If you are new to cycling I would recommend you go the LBS route. BD has deals galore but if the bike don't fit or you have an issue you will be up the creek without a paddle. BD is not noted for their customer service. The best time to create a good relationship with your LBS is when you are looking to buy a bike. They can guide you through the process.

Out of the two the CAAD 8 may be a better option for touring seeing as it has a triple crank. Both bikes have Tiagra components so there is no difference there. Overall the best bike would be the one the fits the best and appeals to you. So take them both out for a test ride and get the one you are happiest riding.

Name of Thread "Indecision" The OP has posted that they are looking to purchase a bike and have narrowed it down to two bikes. They have also stated that they were open to suggestions. Nowhere did they state how long they have been a cyclist if at all.

If someone is new to cycling and they buy a bike on line going by the advertised sizing chart if you are 5'8" to 5' 11" you need to 54cm so on and so forth. The bike does not fit properly they may relate their discomfort of cycling to they are not cut out for the sport and the bike ends up resting in the garage.

OTOH if you are a cyclist who has been in the game you have a base of what works for you seeing as you are currently a bike owner who may be handy with a wrench. If this is the case BD can work for you.

In closing I commented my opinions of the two bikes the OP provided links to.

THE END

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by Froze [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Snip..... I would even accept it to some degree by taking his word for it if he had personally had a problem doing business with BD, but he's never done business with them so he has no first hand experience either.

And how many bikes have you yourself purchased from Bikes Direct?

davereo said:

Name of Thread "Indecision" The OP has posted that they are looking to purchase a bike and have narrowed it down to two bikes. They have also stated that they were open to suggestions. Nowhere did they state how long they have been a cyclist if at all. If someone is new to cycling and they buy a bike on line going by the advertised sizing chart if you are 5'8" to 5' 11" you need to 54cm so on and so forth. The bike does not fit properly they may relate their discomfort of cycling to they are not cut out for the sport and the bike ends up resting in the garage. OTOH if you are a cyclist who has been in the game you have a base of what works for you seeing as you are currently a bike owner who may be handy with a wrench. If this is the case BD can work for you. In closing I commented my opinions of the two bikes the OP provided links to. THE END

I thought your intent was obvious upon the first reading, that your comments weren't a condemnation of BD but rather a statement that buying online might not be the best option for someone new to cycling or someone not having a good understanding of what frame would satisfy their fit needs.