Internet purchase - partial delivery.

[Nobody Here]

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:41:18 +0100, Nick wrote:
>
> "vernon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>>> Throw the in stock / out of stock part of their T&C in their faces and
>> tell
>>> 'em to refund your dough and come and get their goods. Mention that the
>>> affair is already being discussed on the internet, and that casual
>>> bystanders are rapidly becoming unimpressed with their attitude.
>>>
>> Point them at the relevant urc thread and they will be underwhelmed by the
>> vitupertion.....
>>
>
> I'm curious Vernon you seem to be very keen to stick up for Chainreaction
> when it appears to me that they mislead me first about the availabliltity of
> the items I ordered and also mislead me about how they handled out of stock
> items.
>
> So I'm left £40 quid out of pocket through no fault of my own. Don't say, I
> can return them because this would be more effort than it was worth even if
> I did still trust Chainreaction. Where as a checking email would have had
> minimal cost to Chainreaction.

If it's more trouble than it's worth to get your 40 quid back, it's
presumably not worth the trouble of banging on about it here, complaining
to them about it, or losing any sleep over??? If you're not bothered
to go to the post office and send off a parcel for a few quid for which
you'll get 40 of them in return, why bother us with your woes? Maybe they
could have done better and offered you the choice, whatever. If you ask
me, it's pretty daft to fork out an extra 40 quid on a second pair when
you could have ordered just one pair, returned it for the next size if
it didn't fit, and then had your shoes for 40 quid plus a bit instead
of 80. Flippy neck!

--
Nobby

 

[Call me Bob]

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:41:18 +0100, "Nick" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I'm curious Vernon you seem to be very keen to stick up for Chainreaction
>when it appears to me that they mislead me first about the availabliltity of
>the items I ordered and also mislead me about how they handled out of stock
>items.

That's possibly because several of us here in urc have used Chain
Reaction many times and found them to be reliable and easy to deal
with.

My own personal experience is that they have great prices, swift free
delivery, and good customer service when I've needed something
swapped/refunded. I'm sorry that your experience hasn't been quite so
good, but I do think you are being a little over demanding.

>So I'm left £40 quid out of pocket through no fault of my own. Don't say, I
>can return them because this would be more effort than it was worth even if
>I did still trust Chainreaction.

More trouble than it's worth? You can't be bothered to nip into the
Post Office for 5 minutes to get your 40 quid back? Well, that's your
call isn't it.


"Bob"
--


Email address is spam trapped, to reply directly remove the beverage.

 

[Dave]

"Nick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I recently attempted to buy two pairs of cycling shoes from chainreaction
> cycles. Uncertain which size would best fit me I ordered two pairs one
size
> apart so that I could be sure one pair would fit. I checked that both
sizes
> were available on the website and received a confirmation that my single
> order (both pairs) had been placed and would be dispatched in a couple of
> days.
>
> However a week or so later I received just one pair of the shoes and
shortly
> afterwards was told that the other size was unavailable and had been
> discontinued and hence would not be delivered. My Visa card has been
charged
> only for the one pair of shoes delivered.
>

So the web site was wrong - I guess that it said "Errors and Omissions
Excepted" as nobody is perfect, and you were only charged for what was
sent - unlike some who take for the whole order then refund you in a few
weeks/months when they cannot fulfil your order.


> I checked the terms and conditions of www.chainreactioncycles.com and they
> made no mention of partial delivery.
>

Which means what - they charged you only for what was sent even though you
did think you were getting the whole order.

> So I wrote to chainreaction asking that my money be refunded as they had
not
> completed our contract for the delivery of two pairs of shoes. I stated
that
> they could arrange collection of the unwanted shoes. They have refused to
> refund my money and state that I must first return the shoes and
presumably
> bear the cost of return post.

That is normal for a return, you return the goods then they refund the
account - some even charge a re-stocking fee.

>Returning the shoes is more effort for me than
> it is worth.

Then you have accepted the transaction and order.

>I also feel that they should bear the organisation and cost of
> return as they could easily have avoided the problem by confirming that I
> was willing to continue with just a part of our original transaction.

They sent what they had and charged you accordingly - I agree that they
could have confirmed that either by email or telephone first - but not all
do.

>
>
> What is the law. Are online retailers free to deliver (and charge for) any
> subset of an order that they choose?
>

Basically yes. It was what you ordered although not in full.

>
>

Dave

 

[Ambrose Nankivell]

Nick wrote:
> "vernon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>>> Throw the in stock / out of stock part of their T&C in their faces
>>> and tell 'em to refund your dough and come and get their goods.
>>> Mention that the affair is already being discussed on the internet,
>>> and that casual bystanders are rapidly becoming unimpressed with
>>> their attitude.
>> Point them at the relevant urc thread and they will be underwhelmed
>> by the vitupertion.....
>>
>
> I'm curious Vernon you seem to be very keen to stick up for
> Chainreaction when it appears to me that they mislead me first about
> the availabliltity of the items I ordered and also mislead me about
> how they handled out of stock items.

I'm sure there was no intention to mislead you. Should you have wished to
confirm that both pairs were in stock, you should have phoned explicitly to
say that you required both pairs, which I take it you didn't. These things
happen. Stock control is not that simple.

The shoes (as I know, because I just took advantage of their shoe clearance
sale. Happily) were obviously clearance offers sold at bargain prices (for
cycling shoes), so it was implicitly obvious that if there was a stock out
then there wouldn't be any more available.

> So I'm left 40 quid out of pocket through no fault of my own. Don't
> say, I can return them because this would be more effort than it was
> worth even if I did still trust Chainreaction.

So, Chain Reaction would be out of pocket for the price of Parcel Force 24
hour from NI to GB (about £10), and the cost of restocking, but you still
wouldn't trust them.

> Where as a checking email would have had minimal cost to Chainreaction.

Apart from the fact that checking every partially supplied order would take
up a significant amount of time. Like 20 hours work a week, I'd say. I
imagine if it's obvious things are needed in sets, then they would check,
anyway.

> Do you think I did something wrong, apart from of course trusting
> Chainreaction to give me what I ordered?

They gave you half of what you ordered. It wouldn't be obvious to me (as a
picker and packer) that if you order shoes in two different sizes that you
want them both for one person.

> You may like companies to make guesses about what you want but I
> prefer that if they can't deliver their side of a contract that they
> check with me before continuing.

It's not a contract until the money's taken.

> This doesn't sound unreasonable to
> me?

That doesn't sound like a question to me?

--
Ambrose

 

[Ambrose Nankivell]

Nick wrote:
> I recently attempted to buy two pairs of cycling shoes from
> chainreaction cycles. Uncertain which size would best fit me I
> ordered two pairs one size apart so that I could be sure one pair
> would fit. I checked that both sizes were available on the website
> and received a confirmation that my single order (both pairs) had
> been placed and would be dispatched in a couple of days.

Also, what shoes are they, and what size? I've a feeling someone here might
be able to relieve a curmudgeon of their podiatral encumberments via ebay
should that person be willing.

--
Ambrose

 

[davek]

Nick wrote:
> So I'm left £40 quid out of pocket through no fault of my own.

You are £40 out of pocket through your own laziness.

> Do you think I did something wrong, apart from of course trusting
> Chainreaction to give me what I ordered?

I'm not entirely sure where the law stands, but I believe there is
something about "invitation to treat" which means that even if an item
is on display at a particular price, there is no obligation for them to
sell it to you.

And the contract is not fulfilled until they accept your order - in the
case of internet purchases, this is usually when they take your money.

> You may like companies to make guesses about what you want

You're the one who is asking the company to make guesses - how are they
supposed to know, unless you tell them explicitly, that you are buying
two pairs of shoes with the express intention of sending one pair back?

but I prefer that
> if they can't deliver their side of a contract that they check with me
> before continuing. This doesn't sound unreasonable to me?

Maybe not, but you placed an unreasonable burden of expectation on them
in the first place, so yes, this is all your fault.

d.

 

[s--p--o--n--i--x]

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 21:49:47 +0100, "Nick" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I recently attempted to buy two pairs of cycling shoes from chainreaction
>cycles. Uncertain which size would best fit me I ordered two pairs one size
>apart so that I could be sure one pair would fit. I checked that both sizes
>were available on the website and received a confirmation that my single
>order (both pairs) had been placed and would be dispatched in a couple of
>days.
>
>However a week or so later I received just one pair of the shoes and shortly
>afterwards was told that the other size was unavailable and had been
>discontinued and hence would not be delivered. My Visa card has been charged
>only for the one pair of shoes delivered.
>
>I checked the terms and conditions of www.chainreactioncycles.com and they
>made no mention of partial delivery.
>
>So I wrote to chainreaction asking that my money be refunded as they had not
>completed our contract for the delivery of two pairs of shoes. I stated that
>they could arrange collection of the unwanted shoes. They have refused to
>refund my money and state that I must first return the shoes and presumably
>bear the cost of return post. Returning the shoes is more effort for me than
>it is worth. I also feel that they should bear the organisation and cost of
>return as they could easily have avoided the problem by confirming that I
>was willing to continue with just a part of our original transaction.
>
>
>What is the law. Are online retailers free to deliver (and charge for) any
>subset of an order that they choose?

Do the shoes fit?

 

[Bryan]

I'm not sticking up for Chainreaction in anyway, but I've had no problems dealign with them in teh past even when an item didnlt turn up, they just sent a replacement no problem.

If you really can't be aresed to get £40 back by going to the post office can you lend me £50, honest I'll pay you back however given the silly money paid for stuff on ebay, put it up on there you may even make a profit, but then again you most likely won't be bothered about posting them to the winner anyway.

Stop whinging and get to the post office, you'll be down a fiver but so what, it's better than being £40 down. I thought it was standard mail order policy for the customer to pay for the return of goods that they just didn't want rather than returning faulty goods which the company happily pays for. (personally I'd have gone to an LBS, tried on the shoes, seen which fitted and then orederd the correct size)

Bryan

 

[Sara]

In article <[email protected]>, Wally
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Throw the in stock / out of stock part of their T&C in their faces and tell
> 'em to refund your dough and come and get their goods. Mention that the
> affair is already being discussed on the internet, and that casual
> bystanders are rapidly becoming unimpressed with their attitude.

Oh no - don't do that. Nothing gives call centre staff more laughs and
few things give them less pause for thought.

 

[Sara]

In article <[email protected]>,
davek <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> You're the one who is asking the company to make guesses - how are they
> supposed to know, unless you tell them explicitly, that you are buying
> two pairs of shoes with the express intention of sending one pair back?

If you re-read the thread, there was no intention of sending one pair
back, just a better chance of getting a pair that fit.

 

[Sara]

In article <[email protected]>,
davek <[email protected]> wrote:

> Maybe not, but you placed an unreasonable burden of expectation on them
> in the first place, so yes, this is all your fault.

It doesn't sound unreasonable to me. I can't remember the last time I
ordered several items online somewhere and was not informed, in
advance, if they couldn't supply a complete order.

 

[davek]

Sara wrote:
> If you re-read the thread, there was no intention of sending one pair
> back, just a better chance of getting a pair that fit.

OK, I begin to understand... so he was hoping to spend £80 in order to
get one pair of £40 shoes that fit?

That makes perfect sense now! I mean, I'm always doing that myself -
why only last week I bought a random box of spanners just in case there
was one spanner that fitted the loose nut that needed tightening in my
brain...

d.

 

[Sara]

In article <[email protected]>,
davek <[email protected]> wrote:

> Sara wrote:
> > If you re-read the thread, there was no intention of sending one pair
> > back, just a better chance of getting a pair that fit.
>
> OK, I begin to understand... so he was hoping to spend £80 in order to
> get one pair of £40 shoes that fit?
>
> That makes perfect sense now! I mean, I'm always doing that myself -
> why only last week I bought a random box of spanners just in case there
> was one spanner that fitted the loose nut that needed tightening in my
> brain...
>
Whether you agree with the logic or not, the order was not fulfilled
complete and it has been standard practice with every online shop I've
used, to inform the purchaser in advance when this was the case. From
reading through this thread it seems that is also this company's
written policy but they did not carry it out.

 

[davek]

Sara wrote:
> It doesn't sound unreasonable to me. I can't remember the last time I
> ordered several items online somewhere and was not informed, in
> advance, if they couldn't supply a complete order.

I don't know about you, but when I go to Sainsbury's to do my weekly
groceries shop, I don't just walk out of the shop empty-handed if there
is one item on my shopping list they haven't got in stock.

d.

 

[vernon]

> I don't know about you, but when I go to Sainsbury's to do my weekly
> groceries shop, I don't just walk out of the shop empty-handed if there
> is one item on my shopping list they haven't got in stock.

No. But since they habitually had several items from my list out of stock
over a period of several weeks, I along with lots of other customers
switched
their allegiences to other supermarkets.

Not quite the same scenario but if I was going to winge about a retail
establishment,
Sainsbury's is at the top of my list.

I still can't get my head around the OP's unrealistic expectations for
sympathy from
the NG and from the retailer. All of his grief could be resolved in minutes
by posting
the shoes back to get the bulk of his monay back. A no-brainer IMHO.

 

[Call me Bob]

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:55:26 +0100, "vernon" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>> I don't know about you, but when I go to Sainsbury's to do my weekly
>> groceries shop, I don't just walk out of the shop empty-handed if there
>> is one item on my shopping list they haven't got in stock.
>
>No. But since they habitually had several items from my list out of stock
>over a period of several weeks, I along with lots of other customers
>switched their allegiences to other supermarkets.

I don't think I've been back in Sainsburys since I saw they were
charging 99p *each* for green peppers. The thieving bastards.

"Bob"
--

Email address is spam trapped, to reply directly remove the beverage.

 

[Nick]

"Nobody Here" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:41:18 +0100, Nick wrote:
>>
>> "vernon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>
>>>> Throw the in stock / out of stock part of their T&C in their faces and
>>> tell
>>>> 'em to refund your dough and come and get their goods. Mention that the
>>>> affair is already being discussed on the internet, and that casual
>>>> bystanders are rapidly becoming unimpressed with their attitude.
>>>>
>>> Point them at the relevant urc thread and they will be underwhelmed by
>>> the
>>> vitupertion.....
>>>
>>
>> I'm curious Vernon you seem to be very keen to stick up for Chainreaction
>> when it appears to me that they mislead me first about the availabliltity
>> of
>> the items I ordered and also mislead me about how they handled out of
>> stock
>> items.
>>
>> So I'm left 40 quid out of pocket through no fault of my own. Don't say,
>> I
>> can return them because this would be more effort than it was worth even
>> if
>> I did still trust Chainreaction. Where as a checking email would have had
>> minimal cost to Chainreaction.
>
> If it's more trouble than it's worth to get your 40 quid back, it's
> presumably not worth the trouble of banging on about it here, complaining
> to them about it, or losing any sleep over??? If you're not bothered
> to go to the post office and send off a parcel for a few quid for which
> you'll get 40 of them in return, why bother us with your woes?

Cost of time and effort exceeds £40 - postage, simple really? It always
surprises me that people are so willing to write off their own time and
effort. Maybe others could achieve a return in minutes but I know it would
take me at least half an hour, probably more.

I posted to the newsgroup so that I might better understand what to expect
fand so that others could make a more informed descion about shopping with
ChainReaction and Internet companies in general. ChainReaction apparently
can't be bother to inform people about their policy of partial delivery.

> Maybe they
> could have done better and offered you the choice, whatever. If you ask
> me, it's pretty daft to fork out an extra 40 quid on a second pair when
> you could have ordered just one pair, returned it for the next size if
> it didn't fit, and then had your shoes for 40 quid plus a bit instead
> of 80. Flippy neck!
>

As I said the time and effort of returning goods outweighs the cash I might
get back. I could have made an hours trip to the local bike shop tried both
pairs on and only bought one for £60, would that have been sensible?

> --
> Nobby

 

[Nick]

"Call me Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:41:18 +0100, "Nick" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I'm curious Vernon you seem to be very keen to stick up for Chainreaction
>>when it appears to me that they mislead me first about the availabliltity
>>of
>>the items I ordered and also mislead me about how they handled out of
>>stock
>>items.
>
> That's possibly because several of us here in urc have used Chain
> Reaction many times and found them to be reliable and easy to deal
> with.
>
> My own personal experience is that they have great prices, swift free
> delivery, and good customer service when I've needed something
> swapped/refunded. I'm sorry that your experience hasn't been quite so
> good, but I do think you are being a little over demanding.
>

The price appeared very good, but in the end I have just ended £40 quid out
of pocket.
I don't think a clear statement of company policy in the terms and
conditions is over demanding. We made a deal, they didn't do what they said
they would do. I end up paying the price.

>>So I'm left £40 quid out of pocket through no fault of my own. Don't say,
>>I
>>can return them because this would be more effort than it was worth even
>>if
>>I did still trust Chainreaction.
>
> More trouble than it's worth? You can't be bothered to nip into the
> Post Office for 5 minutes to get your 40 quid back? Well, that's your
> call isn't it.
>
Half an hour at least, postage, wrapping, possibility ChainReaction would
fail to pay for some unknown reason. I don't know how much your time is
worth? But doing this would be a greater cost than £40. Bearing in mind
ChainReaction could have solved this by simple email asking me to confirm I
wanted half my order.


>
> "Bob"
> --
>
>
> Email address is spam trapped, to reply directly remove the beverage.

 

[Pete Biggs]

Nick wrote:
> "Joe Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Nick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> I recently attempted to buy two pairs of cycling shoes from
>>> chainreaction cycles. Uncertain which size would best fit me I
>>> ordered two pairs one size apart so that I could be sure one pair
>>> would fit. I checked that both sizes were available on the website
>>> and received a confirmation that my single order (both pairs) had
>>> been placed and would be dispatched in a couple of days.
>>>
>>> However a week or so later I received just one pair of the shoes and
>>> shortly afterwards was told that the other size was unavailable and
>>> had been discontinued and hence would not be delivered. My Visa
>>> card has been charged only for the one pair of shoes delivered.
>>>
>>> I checked the terms and conditions of www.chainreactioncycles.com
>>> and they made no mention of partial delivery.
>>>
>>> So I wrote to chainreaction asking that my money be refunded as
>>> they had not completed our contract for the delivery of two pairs
>>> of shoes. I stated that they could arrange collection of the
>>> unwanted shoes. They have refused to refund my money and state that
>>> I must first return the shoes and presumably bear the cost of
>>> return post. Returning the shoes is more effort for me than it is
>>> worth.
>>
>>
>> Had they supplied two pairs,(as you had ordered) then you would have
>> been returning one pair anyway. If the pair they sent had fitted
>> then you would have made a saving by not having to return the
>> unwanted pair, & no doubt you'd have been quietly happy about that
>> as anyone would. If you want the refund you'll need to pay the
>> return carriage to send them back. Unfortunately Sod's Law applies
>> as the particular pair they sent didn't fit.
>>
>> Joe Lee
>>
> No I wouldn't have returned the pair that didn't fit. The time and
> effort invloved isn't worth it for £40.
>
> If Chainreaction had delivered my total order I would have been happy
> paying double for the one pair of shoes that fitted. I would not have
> returned the pair that didn't. I would have thought my behaviour was
> pretty normal?

It's extraordinary behaviour because someone to whom £40 means so little
would usually spend more than £40 on one pair of cycling shoes (since £80+
shoes are better). But you have the right be to extraordinary! Just
don't be surprised that your story is being suspected because it is so
extraordinary.

~PB

 

[Nick]

"Ambrose Nankivell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Nick wrote:
>> "vernon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>
>>>> Throw the in stock / out of stock part of their T&C in their faces
>>>> and tell 'em to refund your dough and come and get their goods.
>>>> Mention that the affair is already being discussed on the internet,
>>>> and that casual bystanders are rapidly becoming unimpressed with
>>>> their attitude.
>>> Point them at the relevant urc thread and they will be underwhelmed
>>> by the vitupertion.....
>>>
>>
>> I'm curious Vernon you seem to be very keen to stick up for
>> Chainreaction when it appears to me that they mislead me first about
>> the availabliltity of the items I ordered and also mislead me about
>> how they handled out of stock items.
>
> I'm sure there was no intention to mislead you. Should you have wished to
> confirm that both pairs were in stock, you should have phoned explicitly
> to say that you required both pairs, which I take it you didn't. These
> things happen. Stock control is not that simple.
>
Yes it is. When the knew the couldn't fill the order they should have
contacted me. Instead of grasping at a chance to offload goods.

> The shoes (as I know, because I just took advantage of their shoe
> clearance sale. Happily) were obviously clearance offers sold at bargain
> prices (for cycling shoes), so it was implicitly obvious that if there was
> a stock out then there wouldn't be any more available.
>

Where did it say that?



>> So I'm left 40 quid out of pocket through no fault of my own. Don't
>> say, I can return them because this would be more effort than it was
>> worth even if I did still trust Chainreaction.
>
> So, Chain Reaction would be out of pocket for the price of Parcel Force 24
> hour from NI to GB (about £10), and the cost of restocking, but you still
> wouldn't trust them.
>

What are you talking about? I assume the factor shipping into their prices.
An email to check I still wanted half the order would have cost nothing. As
it is they mislead me and I'm out of pocket.




>> Where as a checking email would have had minimal cost to Chainreaction.
>
> Apart from the fact that checking every partially supplied order would
> take up a significant amount of time. Like 20 hours work a week, I'd say.
> I imagine if it's obvious things are needed in sets, then they would
> check, anyway.
>

My God! ChainReaction checking after they have failed to do what they
promised, cost them too much? So I should bear the cost of their failure to
know what they have in stock? Its unreasonable for them to send out an
auotmatic email confirm when they cant fill an order but it is Ok for me to
spend half an hour + postage returning the goods.


>> Do you think I did something wrong, apart from of course trusting
>> Chainreaction to give me what I ordered?
>
> They gave you half of what you ordered. It wouldn't be obvious to me (as a
> picker and packer) that if you order shoes in two different sizes that you
> want them both for one person.
>
>> You may like companies to make guesses about what you want but I
>> prefer that if they can't deliver their side of a contract that they
>> check with me before continuing.
>
> It's not a contract until the money's taken.
>

It was a deal. I agreed they could take £80 I didn't agree they could take
£40.

>> This doesn't sound unreasonable to
>> me?
>
> That doesn't sound like a question to me?
>

> --
> Ambrose