I came across this yesterday, and it doesn't seem right... For me it says that 90% of my max HR is 202? Is this formula wrong? (bottom of page, #1-6) http://michaelscycles.net/site/page.cfm?PageID=231
The Karvonen Formula is just one of many ways to calculate training zones. It is neither wrong or right.shming123 said:I came across this yesterday, and it doesn't seem right... For me it says that 90% of my max HR is 202? Is this formula wrong? (bottom of page, #1-6) http://michaelscycles.net/site/page.cfm?PageID=231
shming123 said:I came across this yesterday, and it doesn't seem right... For me it says that 90% of my max HR is 202? Is this formula wrong? (bottom of page, #1-6) http://michaelscycles.net/site/page.cfm?PageID=231
shming123 said:To determine HR zones, can't you just multiply your max HR by whatever percent? Example, my max HR is 200. Can't I just multiply 200 x .8 = 160, so 160 bpm is 80% of my max? and you just do the same thing for other % or your max? max x .7 =70% of max, etc.. ?? This would seem the common sense way to do it, or do you have to do some formula?
Schming123, Here's an online HR calc that is based on revised BCF/ABCC/WCPP training guidelines originally set forth by Peter Keen. They use a % of MaxHR.shming123 said:I came across this yesterday, and it doesn't seem right... For me it says that 90% of my max HR is 202? Is this formula wrong? (bottom of page, #1-6) http://michaelscycles.net/site/page.cfm?PageID=231
ric_stern/RST said:At RST we don't use the Karvonnen HR zones -- one of the issues with these is that if you are ill or fatigued and your resting HR increases, your zones will go up (rather than the need for them to be reduced).
ric_stern/RST said:At RST we use zones of HRmax based on straight percentages.
Our zones are:
Recovery up to 70% HRmax
Endurance
Zone 1 75 to 77.5% HRmax
Zone 2 77.5 to 80% HRmax
Zone 3 80 to 85% HRmax
Intensive
Zone 4 85 to 87.5% HRmax
Zone 5 87.5 to 92.5% HRmax
Maximal
Zone 6 92.5 to 100% HRmax
However, with some riders we may simplify the zones by amalgamating them into the zone category, i.e., we have four zones: Recovery, Endurance, Intensive, and Maximal. In other words, Endurance zone is 75 to 85% HRmax, etc.
Ric
antoineg said:I'm curious -- do you predict LT/AeT based on HR? And what is the relative importance you attach to LT (or AeT)-based zones vs. HR-based zones?
LOL -- anaerobic threshold. You've never heard of the term AeT? That sort of blows my mind.ric_stern/RST said:Not really sure what AeT is, it appears to be a made up metric by triathletes?
That's why I asked; many people do attempt to guess at it as a percentage of HR based on fitness level. For those who don't want to do more complex tests, a HR-based approach, in combination with RPE, may be better than nothing at all.ric_stern/RST said:You can't define LT by HR as it has nothing to do with it.
Interesting. I don't agree with that last statement (in bold) at all, unless you mean theoretically, in a lab setting. Out in a race setting LT (or AeT ) is much more of a practical limiter of performance.ric_stern/RST said:Whilst power at LT is an excellent predictor of performance, and is highly correlated to the power you can produce over an e.g., 1-hr TT, at RST we prefer to base zones on e.g., MAP which is correlated with VO2max and is the rate limiting mechanism.
antoineg said:LOL -- anaerobic threshold. You've never heard of the term AeT? That sort of blows my mind.
Interesting. I don't agree with that last statement (in bold) at all, unless you mean theoretically, in a lab setting. Out in a race setting LT (or AeT ) is much more of a practical limiter of performance.
Huh? Depending on what measurements you use, and criteria you apply, AeT may be slightly lower than, equal to, or slightly higher than LT.ric_stern/RST said:obviously, i've heard of anaerobic threshold, but having seen a couple of articles by some tri people they appeared to be talking about a much lower intensity.
Huh? This is just flat-out wrong, incorrect, and misleading.ric_stern/RST said:Be that as it may, AT is an outdated idea that is no longer used.
You have a debate/lecturing style that I've come to recognize. You get very specific and very precise very quickly in an attempt to prove a point.ric_stern/RST said:however, you want to say it, VO2max *is* the rate limiting mechanism, as we can only exercise at certain percentages over certain durations. For e.g., the upper limit of VO2 as a percentage of VO2max during a 1-hr TT is ~ 90%. This upper limit occurs in vastly different fitness groups (i.e., it's not just elite pros). So while there's some slack in moving TT power's VO2 around (e.g., if i did no TT specific training over the winter it may drop to ~85%), it *is* limited by VO2max
antoineg said:Huh? Depending on what measurements you use, and criteria you apply, AeT may be slightly lower than, equal to, or slightly higher than LT.
Huh? This is just flat-out wrong, incorrect, and misleading.
A more generally correct statement would be that endurance cycling performance IN GENERAL is limited by lactate threshold. Some people, in shorter events, can exercise above their LT for some period of time. Once you move that duration out, however, that stops happening.
antoineg said:Bah. I'm done with this forum.
Just because you aren't familiar with something, or don't agree with it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist or is incorrect.
I would encourage anyone reading this "cycling training" forum to take anything they read from you with a huge grain of salt.
ric_stern/RST said:however, you want to say it, VO2max *is* the rate limiting mechanism, as we can only exercise at certain percentages over certain durations. For e.g., the upper limit of VO2 as a percentage of VO2max during a 1-hr TT is ~ 90%. This upper limit occurs in vastly different fitness groups (i.e., it's not just elite pros). So while there's some slack in moving TT power's VO2 around (e.g., if i did no TT specific training over the winter it may drop to ~85%), it *is* limited by VO2max
Roadie_scum said:Surely VO2max and LT are both limiters? Also, as an athlete becomes highly trained and advances in LT/Vo2max become incremental, other factors such as efficiency, lactate tolerance, glycogen sparing and ability to ride in more extreme aerodynamic positions will become important.
ric_stern/RST said:I'm not saying that those factors aren't extremely important (and limiting) as they are. it's just that the actual 'governor' of the system (so to speak, i think this analogy works) is VO2max.
ric
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