"It's okay to kill someone, as long as we find a good reason for it afterward"

Discussion in 'Mountain Bikes' started by Mike Vandeman, Jan 30, 2004.

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  1. This is the logic used to justify the killing of mountain lions SUSPECTED of attacking a human.
    Maybe that's where George Bush learned how to rationalize attacking Iraq. First he said there were
    "weapons of mass destruction" there, but when he didn't find any, he changed his tune to "removing a
    brutal dictator".

    If it's so important to make sure, AFTER THE FACT, that the right mountain lion was killed, I wonder
    why it isn't important BEFORE killing it?

    In any case, the fact that mountain lions are attacking humans only proves that we don't belong
    there. Mountain bikes, at a minimum, should be banned in mountain lion habitat (because they greatly
    extend the range of human access). Where possible, ALL human access should be banned.
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
    Tags:


  2. Jason

    Jason Guest

    "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > This is the logic used to justify the killing of mountain lions SUSPECTED
    of
    > attacking a human. Maybe that's where George Bush learned how to
    rationalize
    > attacking Iraq. First he said there were "weapons of mass destruction"
    there,
    > but when he didn't find any, he changed his tune to "removing a brutal dictator".
    >
    > If it's so important to make sure, AFTER THE FACT, that the right mountain
    lion
    > was killed, I wonder why it isn't important BEFORE killing it?
    >
    > In any case, the fact that mountain lions are attacking humans only proves
    that
    > we don't belong there. Mountain bikes, at a minimum, should be banned in mountain lion habitat
    > (because they greatly extend the range of human
    access).
    > Where possible, ALL human access should be banned.
    > ===
    > I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    > help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
    >
    > http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

    This coming from a person who thinks its ok to kill a person, so long as they are a Mountain Biker.
    You're a psychopath, Mike Vandeaman Ph.D. I hope you realize no one on this board can take you
    seriously. Your time would be better spent trying to stop something that really causes damage to the
    ecosystem. Even you have to admit that in the grand scheme of things, mountain bikes have a
    miniscule effect on the environment. And before you go telling me that I am saying its ok to rape my
    wife as long as no one kills her, I would like for you to go take a look at the Texas coast.
    Downtown anywhere, landfills, rivers, etc etc. They are disgusting, but dont ever see mountain
    bikes. Trails grow back very very quickly, and don't take up nearly as much space. All your effort
    would be much more appreciated were you to try and tackle a more significant issue. But your crazy,
    so you wont. To be honest, I want to plunk you, but you make me laugh, so I wont. Keep it up Mike
    Vandeman, Ph.D. Meanwhile I am going out this evening to buy a new knobby tire for my mountain bike.
    Very, very knobby.
     
  3. Michael Paul

    Michael Paul Guest

    "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > This is the logic used to justify the killing of mountain lions SUSPECTED
    of
    > attacking a human. Maybe that's where George Bush learned how to
    rationalize
    > attacking Iraq. First he said there were "weapons of mass destruction"
    there,
    > but when he didn't find any, he changed his tune to "removing a brutal dictator".
    >
    > If it's so important to make sure, AFTER THE FACT, that the right mountain
    lion
    > was killed, I wonder why it isn't important BEFORE killing it?
    >
    > In any case, the fact that mountain lions are attacking humans only proves
    that
    > we don't belong there. Mountain bikes, at a minimum, should be banned in mountain lion habitat
    > (because they greatly extend the range of human
    access).
    > Where possible, ALL human access should be banned.
    > ===
    > I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    > help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
    >
    > http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

    I'm just trying to figure out how many native species were displaced by your home, your work, or
    those institutions that granted you degrees. For that matter, how many species were displaced by the
    factories that made the materials to build your home, or those same colleges. The list goes on and
    on. Your very existence is a hypocrisy of those statements you just made because everything you
    touch in your daily life is a result of displaced wildlife.

    start by banning yourself from native habitat first and maybe others will follow.

    idiot

    Michael
     
  4. Boomer

    Boomer Guest

    "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > This is the logic used to justify the killing of mountain lions SUSPECTED
    of
    > attacking a human. Maybe that's where George Bush learned how to
    rationalize
    > attacking Iraq. First he said there were "weapons of mass destruction"
    there,
    > but when he didn't find any, he changed his tune to "removing a brutal dictator".
    >
    > If it's so important to make sure, AFTER THE FACT, that the right mountain
    lion
    > was killed, I wonder why it isn't important BEFORE killing it?
    >
    > In any case, the fact that mountain lions are attacking humans only proves
    that
    > we don't belong there. Mountain bikes, at a minimum, should be banned in mountain lion habitat
    > (because they greatly extend the range of human
    access).
    > Where possible, ALL human access should be banned.
    > ===
    > I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    > help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
    >
    > http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

    Suggest that you buy yourself a remote French Pacific island that is mostly (or preferably all)
    underwater. Will solve a lot of your problems. It very well may solve a lot of other people's
    problems as well.
     
  5. Ddb

    Ddb Guest

    ummmmm.............Cougars aren't aren't people..............

    "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > This is the logic used to justify the killing of mountain lions SUSPECTED
    of
    > attacking a human. Maybe that's where George Bush learned how to
    rationalize
    > attacking Iraq. First he said there were "weapons of mass destruction"
    there,
    > but when he didn't find any, he changed his tune to "removing a brutal dictator".
    >
    > If it's so important to make sure, AFTER THE FACT, that the right mountain
    lion
    > was killed, I wonder why it isn't important BEFORE killing it?
    >
    > In any case, the fact that mountain lions are attacking humans only proves
    that
    > we don't belong there. Mountain bikes, at a minimum, should be banned in mountain lion habitat
    > (because they greatly extend the range of human
    access).
    > Where possible, ALL human access should be banned.
    > ===
    > I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    > help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
    >
    > http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  6. R.White

    R.White Guest

    Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > This is the logic used to justify the killing of mountain lions SUSPECTED of attacking a human.

    Your cat was suspected of killing small animals. Now it's been killed. It's the law of the land.
    Deal with it.
     
  7. Gman

    Gman Guest

    On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:17:01 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote: "It's okay to kill
    someone, as long as we find a good reason for it afterward"

    Uh...this is a mountain lion, not a person.

    G
     
  8. On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:48:52 -0600, "Jason" <[email protected]> wrote:

    . ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    .news:[email protected]... .> This is the logic used to justify the killing
    of mountain lions SUSPECTED .of .> attacking a human. Maybe that's where George Bush learned how to
    .rationalize .> attacking Iraq. First he said there were "weapons of mass destruction" .there, .>
    but when he didn't find any, he changed his tune to "removing a brutal .> dictator". .> .> If it's
    so important to make sure, AFTER THE FACT, that the right mountain .lion .> was killed, I wonder why
    it isn't important BEFORE killing it? .> .> In any case, the fact that mountain lions are attacking
    humans only proves .that .> we don't belong there. Mountain bikes, at a minimum, should be banned in
    .> mountain lion habitat (because they greatly extend the range of human .access). .> Where
    possible, ALL human access should be banned. .> === .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat
    that is off-limits to .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 .> years
    fighting auto dependence and road construction.) .> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande . .This
    coming from a person who thinks its ok to kill a person, so long as .they are a Mountain Biker.

    You are lying. You just fabricated that. But we have come to expect such dishonesty from mountain
    bikers. We don't need to kill mountain bikers, because they are quite good at killing THEMSELVES!

    You're a psychopath, Mike Vandeaman Ph.D. I .hope you realize no one on this board can take you
    seriously. Your time .would be better spent trying to stop something that really causes damage to
    .the ecosystem. Even you have to admit that in the grand scheme of things, .mountain bikes have a
    miniscule effect on the environment.

    BS. 8 million mountain bikers (or whatever the figure is) ripping up 8 million trails every week are
    a BIG threat -- the BIGGEST threat inside our parks.

    And before you .go telling me that I am saying its ok to rape my wife as long as no one .kills
    her, I would like for you to go take a look at the Texas coast. .Downtown anywhere, landfills,
    rivers, etc etc. They are disgusting, but .dont ever see mountain bikes. Trails grow back very
    very quickly,

    BS. Dead plants and animals don't come alive again. They are GONE. You can't compensate for that by
    growing new ones.

    and don't .take up nearly as much space. All your effort would be much more .appreciated were you
    to try and tackle a more significant issue.

    I did: highway construction. NOT ONE mountain biker showed up to help. They were too busy pursuing
    their own selfish pleasures, often illegally.

    But your .crazy, so you wont. To be honest, I want to plunk you, but you make me .laugh, so I wont.
    Keep it up Mike Vandeman, Ph.D. Meanwhile I am going out .this evening to buy a new knobby tire for
    my mountain bike. Very, very .knobby.

    Thanks for demonstrating just how belligerent, dishonest, and selfish mountain bikers are. You are
    really helping your cause! Not.
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  9. On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:22:59 GMT, "Michael Paul" <mfpaul [email protected]>
    wrote:

    . ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    .news:[email protected]... .> This is the logic used to justify the killing
    of mountain lions SUSPECTED .of .> attacking a human. Maybe that's where George Bush learned how to
    .rationalize .> attacking Iraq. First he said there were "weapons of mass destruction" .there, .>
    but when he didn't find any, he changed his tune to "removing a brutal .> dictator". .> .> If it's
    so important to make sure, AFTER THE FACT, that the right mountain .lion .> was killed, I wonder why
    it isn't important BEFORE killing it? .> .> In any case, the fact that mountain lions are attacking
    humans only proves .that .> we don't belong there. Mountain bikes, at a minimum, should be banned in
    .> mountain lion habitat (because they greatly extend the range of human .access). .> Where
    possible, ALL human access should be banned. .> === .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat
    that is off-limits to .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 .> years
    fighting auto dependence and road construction.) .> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande . .I'm just
    trying to figure out how many native species were displaced by your .home, your work, or those
    institutions that granted you degrees. For that .matter, how many species were displaced by the
    factories that made the .materials to build your home, or those same colleges. The list goes on and
    .on. Your very existence is a hypocrisy of those statements you just made .because everything you
    touch in your daily life is a result of displaced .wildlife.

    You are a hypocrite, because the same applies to you. You are asking me to do something you aren't
    willing to do yourself! That has a name: "hypocrisy".

    .start by banning yourself from native habitat first and maybe others will .follow. . .idiot .
    .Michael .

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  10. On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 22:44:53 GMT, "DDB" <[email protected]> wrote:

    .ummmmm.............Cougars aren't aren't people..............

    What's your point?

    ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    .news:[email protected]... .> This is the logic used to justify the killing
    of mountain lions SUSPECTED .of .> attacking a human. Maybe that's where George Bush learned how to
    .rationalize .> attacking Iraq. First he said there were "weapons of mass destruction" .there, .>
    but when he didn't find any, he changed his tune to "removing a brutal .> dictator". .> .> If it's
    so important to make sure, AFTER THE FACT, that the right mountain .lion .> was killed, I wonder why
    it isn't important BEFORE killing it? .> .> In any case, the fact that mountain lions are attacking
    humans only proves .that .> we don't belong there. Mountain bikes, at a minimum, should be banned in
    .> mountain lion habitat (because they greatly extend the range of human .access). .> Where
    possible, ALL human access should be banned. .> === .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat
    that is off-limits to .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 .> years
    fighting auto dependence and road construction.) .> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande .

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  11. On 30 Jan 2004 17:44:09 -0800, [email protected] (R.White) wrote:

    .Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>... .> This is the logic used to justify the
    killing of mountain lions SUSPECTED of .> attacking a human. . .Your cat was suspected of killing
    small animals. Now it's been killed. .It's the law of the land. Deal with it.

    No, it isn't. We are innocent till proven guilty.

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  12. R.White

    R.White Guest

    Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > On 30 Jan 2004 17:44:09 -0800, [email protected] (R.White) wrote:
    >
    > .Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>... .> This is the logic used to justify the
    > killing of mountain lions SUSPECTED of .> attacking a human. . .Your cat was suspected of killing
    > small animals. Now it's been killed. .It's the law of the land. Deal with it.
    >
    > No, it isn't. We are innocent till proven guilty.

    Doesn't mean a thing to your dead cat. Meow!
     
  13. Michael Paul

    Michael Paul Guest

    "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:22:59 GMT, "Michael Paul" <mfpaul
    [email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    > . ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > .news:[email protected]... .> This is the logic used to justify the
    > killing of mountain lions
    SUSPECTED
    > .of .> attacking a human. Maybe that's where George Bush learned how to .rationalize .> attacking
    > Iraq. First he said there were "weapons of mass destruction" .there, .> but when he didn't find
    > any, he changed his tune to "removing a brutal .> dictator". .> .> If it's so important to make
    > sure, AFTER THE FACT, that the right
    mountain
    > .lion .> was killed, I wonder why it isn't important BEFORE killing it? .> .> In any case, the
    > fact that mountain lions are attacking humans only
    proves
    > .that .> we don't belong there. Mountain bikes, at a minimum, should be banned
    in
    > .> mountain lion habitat (because they greatly extend the range of human .access). .> Where
    > possible, ALL human access should be banned. .> === .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat
    > that is off-limits to .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 .> years
    > fighting auto dependence and road construction.) .> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande . .I'm just
    > trying to figure out how many native species were displaced by
    your
    > .home, your work, or those institutions that granted you degrees. For
    that
    > .matter, how many species were displaced by the factories that made the .materials to build your
    > home, or those same colleges. The list goes on
    and
    > .on. Your very existence is a hypocrisy of those statements you just made .because everything you
    > touch in your daily life is a result of displaced .wildlife.
    >
    > You are a hypocrite, because the same applies to you. You are asking me to
    do
    > something you aren't willing to do yourself! That has a name: "hypocrisy".
    >
    Lies.

    yet again, the famed Dr. [email protected] gets caught in a lie.

    I never once said it was bad for my existance to be here at the expense of other species. You did.
    I fully accept that my being came and continues to come at the expense of the environment. What's
    your excuse?

    idiot

    Michael
     
  14. Ddb

    Ddb Guest

    "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 22:44:53 GMT, "DDB" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > .ummmmm.............Cougars aren't aren't people..............
    >
    > What's your point?
    >

    Pretty much self-evident unless you have blinder's on......
     
  15. On 1 Feb 2004 04:19:32 GMT, Gman <[email protected]> wrote:

    .On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:17:01 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote: ."It's okay to
    kill someone, as long as we find a good reason for it afterward" . .Uh...this is a mountain
    lion, not a person.

    Uh, ... what's your point? Mountain lions have no rights? Humans have a double standard? Mountain
    bikers are idiots?
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  16. On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 21:56:01 GMT, "Michael Paul" <mfpaul [email protected]>
    wrote:

    . ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    .news:[email protected]... .> On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:22:59 GMT, "Michael
    Paul" <mfpaul [email protected]> .> wrote: .> .> . .> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote
    in message .> .news:[email protected]... .> .> This is the logic used to
    justify the killing of mountain lions .SUSPECTED .> .of .> .> attacking a human. Maybe that's where
    George Bush learned how to .> .rationalize .> .> attacking Iraq. First he said there were "weapons
    of mass destruction" .> .there, .> .> but when he didn't find any, he changed his tune to "removing
    a brutal .> .> dictator". .> .> .> .> If it's so important to make sure, AFTER THE FACT, that the
    right .mountain .> .lion .> .> was killed, I wonder why it isn't important BEFORE killing it? .> .>
    .> .> In any case, the fact that mountain lions are attacking humans only .proves .> .that .> .> we
    don't belong there. Mountain bikes, at a minimum, should be banned .in .> .> mountain lion habitat
    (because they greatly extend the range of human .> .access). .> .> Where possible, ALL human access
    should be banned. .> .> === .> .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to .>
    .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 .> .> years fighting auto
    dependence and road construction.) .> .> .> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande .> . .> .I'm just
    trying to figure out how many native species were displaced by .your .> .home, your work, or those
    institutions that granted you degrees. For .that .> .matter, how many species were displaced by the
    factories that made the .> .materials to build your home, or those same colleges. The list goes on
    .and .> .on. Your very existence is a hypocrisy of those statements you just made .> .because
    everything you touch in your daily life is a result of displaced .> .wildlife. .> .> You are a
    hypocrite, because the same applies to you. You are asking me to .do .> something you aren't willing
    to do yourself! That has a name: "hypocrisy". .> .Lies. . .yet again, the famed Dr. [email protected] gets
    caught in a lie. . .I never once said it was bad for my existance to be here at the expense of
    .other species. You did.

    You are a hypocrite, because the same applies to you. You are asking me to do something you aren't
    willing to do yourself! That has a name: "hypocrisy".

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  17. Ddb

    Ddb Guest

    > Uh, ... what's your point? Mountain lions have no rights?

    Pretty much hit that one on the head...

    Thanks Mike.
     
  18. Michael Paul

    Michael Paul Guest

    "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:eek:[email protected]...
    > On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 21:56:01 GMT, "Michael Paul" <mfpaul
    [email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    > . ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > .news:[email protected]... .> On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:22:59 GMT, "Michael
    > Paul" <mfpaul [email protected]> .> wrote: .> .> . .> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]>
    > wrote in message .> .news:[email protected]... .> .> This is the logic
    > used to justify the killing of mountain lions .SUSPECTED .> .of .> .> attacking a human. Maybe
    > that's where George Bush learned how to .> .rationalize .> .> attacking Iraq. First he said there
    > were "weapons of mass
    destruction"
    > .> .there, .> .> but when he didn't find any, he changed his tune to "removing a
    brutal
    > .> .> dictator". .> .> .> .> If it's so important to make sure, AFTER THE FACT, that the right
    > .mountain .> .lion .> .> was killed, I wonder why it isn't important BEFORE killing it? .> .> .>
    > .> In any case, the fact that mountain lions are attacking humans only .proves .> .that .> .> we
    > don't belong there. Mountain bikes, at a minimum, should be
    banned
    > .in .> .> mountain lion habitat (because they greatly extend the range of
    human
    > .> .access). .> .> Where possible, ALL human access should be banned. .> .> === .> .> I am working
    > on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to .> .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I
    > spent the previous 8 .> .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) .> .> .> .>
    > http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande .> . .> .I'm just trying to figure out how many native species
    > were displaced
    by
    > .your .> .home, your work, or those institutions that granted you degrees. For .that .> .matter,
    > how many species were displaced by the factories that made the .> .materials to build your home,
    > or those same colleges. The list goes
    on
    > .and .> .on. Your very existence is a hypocrisy of those statements you just
    made
    > .> .because everything you touch in your daily life is a result of
    displaced
    > .> .wildlife. .> .> You are a hypocrite, because the same applies to you. You are asking me
    to
    > .do .> something you aren't willing to do yourself! That has a name:
    "hypocrisy".
    > .> .Lies. . .yet again, the famed Dr. [email protected] gets caught in a lie. . .I never once said it was bad
    > for my existance to be here at the expense
    of
    > .other species. You did.
    >
    > You are a hypocrite, because the same applies to you. You are asking me to
    do
    > something you aren't willing to do yourself! That has a name: "hypocrisy".
    >
    > ===
    > I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    > help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
    >
    > http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

    I could read it the first time. yet again you fail to actually answer a direct question that proves
    you lie. kinda sucks when you get caught so blatently and easily. and I only have a Master's degree.

    Michael
     
  19. Gman

    Gman Guest

    On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 01:45:45 GMT, Mike Vandeman <mjvan[email protected]> wrote:
    > On 1 Feb 2004 04:19:32 GMT, Gman <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > .On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:17:01 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote: ."It's okay to kill
    > someone, as long as we find a good reason for it afterward" . .Uh...this is a mountain lion, not
    > a person.
    >
    > Uh, ... what's your point?

    It's clear:

    Mtn bikers rule Mtn lions suck

    G
     
  20. On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 04:08:17 GMT, "DDB" <[email protected]> wrote:

    . .> Uh, ... what's your point? Mountain lions have no rights? . .Pretty much hit that one on the
    head... . .Thanks Mike.

    So much for mountain bikers' claim to be environmentalists....
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
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