knee tracking probs: How to weaken the Vastus Medialis??

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Shiperton Henet, Mar 18, 2003.

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  1. Hi

    I have knee tracking problems. I have seen a podiatrist and I am told that my Vastus Medialis is
    (like many people) over developed compared to my Vastus Lateralis.

    I am told that there is a temporary cure which consists of a therapist digging her/her thumb into
    the Vastus Medialis really hard and that this "kills" (??) and/or weakens areas of this muscle.

    Does anyone know what's involved or what the technical term is (so that I can look it up) ??

    Background:

    I bicycle (a lot) and run (a bit). And I now want to go skiing in a few days time!

    My podiatrist gave me some quite extreme orthotics to put into my running shoes. But when I ran
    today I seem to have quite badly irritated my knees (mainly the left one).

    I could try taping the knee caps up (to stop them moving towards each other) or I could try some
    kind of know brace??

    Cycling (not too hard) seem to be fine but my knees *really* dont like running, particularly
    down hill.

    I have tried stretching my hamstrings over the last few months and they are still a bit tight but
    approaching normal. I have also been given an exercise where I sit on the floor with knees bent at
    90 degrees and let them flop apart from each other.

    Can anyone suggest any more effective stretches and/or exercises ?!

    Or recommend the best type of knee brace?

    I am male and 42. My blood test for arthritis was negative. My bicycle seat is at the
    correct height.

    My physio once tried grinding the knee cap by holding it in the palm of his hand and pressing it
    down firmly in a kind of circular motion. Apparently it's supposed to polish the underside of
    the thing...

    I cant afford to see any more practitioners.

    => Any suggestions?!

    Ship Shiperton Henethe

    P.S. Is what I have "Chondromalacia" and or "Patellofemoral Syndrome" ?
     
    Tags:


  2. S. Anderson

    S. Anderson Guest

    Chondromalacia is a roughening of the underside of the kneecap. This is generally recognizable by a
    grinding or popping noise when bending the knee. It can be painful, but I don't think there is a
    surgical procedure generally done to correct it. AFAIK, it's more of a therapy-based correction and
    adjustment of exercise routine than a surgical correction. Not sure about patellofemoral syndrome.

    However, my brother had a knee tracking problem one year. He was training extensively and
    overdeveloped one side or the other of his thigh. The doctor suggested weight-training the opposite
    muscle to equalize the force on the knee-cap. It worked for my brother until he stopped racing which
    was about 3 years later. At the time, my brother was doing very long endurance rides with a lot of
    seated climbing. Apparently, the weight training is centred around a sprinter's routine, who
    generally have more developed inner thigh muscles than distance riders. Anyway, it's just a
    suggestion. I'm no doctor so take this advice at your own risk!!

    Cheers,

    Scott..
    --
    Scott Anderson

    "Shiperton Henethe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hi
    >
    > I have knee tracking problems. I have seen a podiatrist and I am told that my Vastus Medialis is
    > (like many people) over developed compared to my Vastus Lateralis.
    >
    > I am told that there is a temporary cure which consists of a therapist digging her/her thumb into
    > the Vastus Medialis really hard and that this "kills" (??) and/or weakens areas of this muscle.
    >
    > Does anyone know what's involved or what the technical term is (so that I can look it up) ??
    >
    >
    > Background:
    >
    > I bicycle (a lot) and run (a bit). And I now want to go skiing in a few days time!
    >
    > My podiatrist gave me some quite extreme orthotics to put into my running shoes. But when I ran
    > today I seem to have quite badly irritated my knees (mainly the left one).
    >
    > I could try taping the knee caps up (to stop them moving towards each other) or I could try some
    > kind of know brace??
    >
    > Cycling (not too hard) seem to be fine but my knees *really* dont like running, particularly
    > down hill.
    >
    > I have tried stretching my hamstrings over the last few months and they are still a bit tight but
    > approaching normal. I have also been given an exercise where I sit on the floor with knees bent at
    > 90 degrees and let them flop apart from each other.
    >
    > Can anyone suggest any more effective stretches and/or exercises ?!
    >
    > Or recommend the best type of knee brace?
    >
    > I am male and 42. My blood test for arthritis was negative. My bicycle seat is at the
    > correct height.
    >
    > My physio once tried grinding the knee cap by holding it in the palm of his hand and pressing it
    > down firmly in a kind of circular motion. Apparently it's supposed to polish the underside of the
    > thing...
    >
    > I cant afford to see any more practitioners.
    >
    > => Any suggestions?!
    >
    >
    >
    > Ship Shiperton Henethe
    >
    > P.S. Is what I have "Chondromalacia" and or "Patellofemoral Syndrome" ?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
     
  3. Jimmie

    Jimmie Guest

    Very interesting! Run (if knee hurts, limp) and get another medical opinion. As Doug mentions there
    are a number of reasons for PFS. You need to see a professional, not to say that the podiatrist is
    not, but he/she works on feet (maybe ankles), definitely nothing above the ankle. Have the
    podiatrist refer you to a sports medicine physician or physical therapist (hopefully not for a
    massage) "Shiperton Henethe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hi
    >
    > I have knee tracking problems. I have seen a podiatrist and I am told that my Vastus Medialis is
    > (like many people) over developed compared to my Vastus Lateralis.
    >
    > I am told that there is a temporary cure which consists of a therapist digging her/her thumb into
    > the Vastus Medialis really hard and that this "kills" (??) and/or weakens areas of this muscle.
    >
    > Does anyone know what's involved or what the technical term is (so that I can look it up) ??
    >
    >
    > Background:
    >
    > I bicycle (a lot) and run (a bit). And I now want to go skiing in a few days time!
    >
    > My podiatrist gave me some quite extreme orthotics to put into my running shoes. But when I ran
    > today I seem to have quite badly irritated my knees (mainly the left one).
    >
    > I could try taping the knee caps up (to stop them moving towards each other) or I could try some
    > kind of know brace??
    >
    > Cycling (not too hard) seem to be fine but my knees *really* dont like running, particularly
    > down hill.
    >
    > I have tried stretching my hamstrings over the last few months and they are still a bit tight but
    > approaching normal. I have also been given an exercise where I sit on the floor with knees bent at
    > 90 degrees and let them flop apart from each other.
    >
    > Can anyone suggest any more effective stretches and/or exercises ?!
    >
    > Or recommend the best type of knee brace?
    >
    > I am male and 42. My blood test for arthritis was negative. My bicycle seat is at the
    > correct height.
    >
    > My physio once tried grinding the knee cap by holding it in the palm of his hand and pressing it
    > down firmly in a kind of circular motion. Apparently it's supposed to polish the underside of the
    > thing...
    >
    > I cant afford to see any more practitioners.
    >
    > => Any suggestions?!
    >
    >
    >
    > Ship Shiperton Henethe
    >
    > P.S. Is what I have "Chondromalacia" and or "Patellofemoral Syndrome" ?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
     
  4. Amh

    Amh Guest

    "Shiperton Henethe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Hi
    >
    > I have knee tracking problems. I have seen a podiatrist and I am told that my Vastus Medialis is
    > (like many people) over developed compared to my Vastus Lateralis.
    >
    > I am told that there is a temporary cure which consists of a therapist digging her/her thumb into
    > the Vastus Medialis really hard and that this "kills" (??) and/or weakens areas of this muscle.

    This approach sounds backward to me. What you have done (running/cycling/skiing) has made the
    muscles as strong or as weak as they are.

    A runner's best friend is complimentary exercise. Work the muscles that don't get worked by running.
    Make sure you stretch frequently, even one minute 5 times over the course of the day is a benefit.
    Keep up with the stretching, a orthopedist I once heard at a running club meeting says that this is
    very important.

    Heal fast, Andy
     
  5. Shiperton Henethe wrote:
    >
    > Hi
    >
    > I have knee tracking problems.

    Several bicycle-related things for you to try:

    1. If you're using a modern "clipless" pedal system, the fore/aft positioning of your foot is
    important, as well as the amount of float provided in the system you're using. Most people with
    knee problems prefer the pedal spindle line up a bit behind the ball of the foot - right at the
    ball of the foot is the usual recommendation. You might try this change. If you're using toe
    clips, be sure they're large enough. If your foot doesn't go into the clip enough, you have
    effectively the same issue as I describe above, with the pedal spindle being too far forward in
    relation to your foot.

    2. Saddle fore/aft position also changes biomechanics and should be investigated. My knees are only
    happy when I sit relatively far forward. Most people who also run prefer their saddle further
    forward than people who only bike, and bike shops rarely take this into consideration unless
    they're used to triathletes.

    3. Cycling cadence can change how the knee musculature develops and can also help or hinder the
    health of the joint itself. You may find that maintaining a high cadence feels good - it puts
    less stress on the knees. But some regular low-cadence work may help strengthen the muscles you
    need strengthened. All other things being equal, I would recommend a program of high-cadence,
    low-gear cycling, keeping the RPM in the 90-120 range, with a few hard hills thrown in to work
    the quads.

    -S-

    > I have seen a podiatrist and I am told that my Vastus Medialis is (like many people) over
    > developed compared to my Vastus Lateralis.
    >
    > I am told that there is a temporary cure which consists of a therapist digging her/her thumb into
    > the Vastus Medialis really hard and that this "kills" (??) and/or weakens areas of this muscle.
    >
    > Does anyone know what's involved or what the technical term is (so that I can look it up) ??
    >
    > Background:
    >
    > I bicycle (a lot) and run (a bit). And I now want to go skiing in a few days time!
    >
    > My podiatrist gave me some quite extreme orthotics to put into my running shoes. But when I ran
    > today I seem to have quite badly irritated my knees (mainly the left one).
    >
    > I could try taping the knee caps up (to stop them moving towards each other) or I could try some
    > kind of know brace??
    >
    > Cycling (not too hard) seem to be fine but my knees *really* dont like running, particularly
    > down hill.
    >
    > I have tried stretching my hamstrings over the last few months and they are still a bit tight but
    > approaching normal. I have also been given an exercise where I sit on the floor with knees bent at
    > 90 degrees and let them flop apart from each other.
    >
    > Can anyone suggest any more effective stretches and/or exercises ?!
    >
    > Or recommend the best type of knee brace?
    >
    > I am male and 42. My blood test for arthritis was negative. My bicycle seat is at the
    > correct height.
    >
    > My physio once tried grinding the knee cap by holding it in the palm of his hand and pressing it
    > down firmly in a kind of circular motion. Apparently it's supposed to polish the underside of the
    > thing...
    >
    > I cant afford to see any more practitioners.
    >
    > => Any suggestions?!
    >
    > Ship Shiperton Henethe
    >
    > P.S. Is what I have "Chondromalacia" and or "Patellofemoral Syndrome" ?
     
  6. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "Shiperton Henethe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hi
    >
    > I have knee tracking problems. I have seen a podiatrist and I am told that my Vastus Medialis is
    > (like many people) over developed compared to my Vastus Lateralis.
    >
    > I am told that there is a temporary cure which consists of a therapist digging her/her thumb into
    > the Vastus Medialis really hard and that this "kills" (??) and/or weakens areas of this muscle.
    >
    > Does anyone know what's involved or what the technical term is (so that I can look it up) ??

    Bunch of stuff here: http://www.arthroscopy.com/sp05032.htm

    I had similar problems years ago when I was a regular runner. I was given at-home physical therapy
    exercises to get my patella to track properly, it worked.

    I'd get another opinion if I were you, the first sounds dubious. See if you can find a doc who knows
    sports medicine, patella tracking problems are very common.
     
  7. Thanks. I'll see what can be done re moving the saddle forward... I already use a pretty high
    cadence if poss. The few hard hills wont do damage then... ?

    Ship Shiperton Henethe

    > Several bicycle-related things for you to try:
    >
    > 1. If you're using a modern "clipless" pedal system, the fore/aft positioning of your foot is
    > important, as well as the amount of float provided in the system you're using. Most people
    > with knee problems prefer the pedal spindle line up a bit behind the ball of the foot - right
    > at the ball of the foot is the usual recommendation. You might try this change. If you're
    > using toe clips, be sure they're large enough. If your foot doesn't go into the clip enough,
    > you have effectively the same issue as I describe above, with the pedal spindle being too far
    > forward in relation to your foot.
    >
    > 2. Saddle fore/aft position also changes biomechanics and should be investigated. My knees are
    > only happy when I sit relatively far forward. Most people who also run prefer their saddle
    > further forward than people who only bike, and bike shops rarely take this into consideration
    > unless they're used to triathletes.
    >
    > 3. Cycling cadence can change how the knee musculature develops and can also help or hinder the
    > health of the joint itself. You may find that maintaining a high cadence feels good - it puts
    > less stress on the knees. But some regular low-cadence work may help strengthen the muscles
    > you need strengthened. All other things being equal, I would recommend a program of
    > high-cadence, low-gear cycling, keeping the RPM in the 90-120 range, with a few hard hills
    > thrown in to work the quads.
    >
    > -S-
    >
    >
    > > I have seen a podiatrist and I am told that my Vastus Medialis is (like many people) over
    > > developed compared to my Vastus Lateralis.
    > >
    > > I am told that there is a temporary cure which consists of a therapist digging her/her thumb
    > > into the Vastus Medialis really hard and that this "kills" (??) and/or weakens areas of this
    > > muscle.
    > >
    > > Does anyone know what's involved or what the technical term is (so that I can look it up) ??
    > >
    > > Background:
    > >
    > > I bicycle (a lot) and run (a bit). And I now want to go skiing in a few days time!
    > >
    > > My podiatrist gave me some quite extreme orthotics to put into my running shoes. But when I ran
    > > today I seem to have quite badly irritated my knees (mainly the left one).
    > >
    > > I could try taping the knee caps up (to stop them moving towards each other) or I could try some
    > > kind of know brace??
    > >
    > > Cycling (not too hard) seem to be fine but my knees *really* dont like running, particularly
    > > down hill.
    > >
    > > I have tried stretching my hamstrings over the last few months and they are still a bit tight
    > > but approaching normal. I have also been given an exercise where I sit on the floor with knees
    > > bent at 90 degrees and let them flop apart from each other.
    > >
    > > Can anyone suggest any more effective stretches and/or exercises ?!
    > >
    > > Or recommend the best type of knee brace?
    > >
    > > I am male and 42. My blood test for arthritis was negative. My bicycle seat is at the correct
    > > height.
    > >
    > > My physio once tried grinding the knee cap by holding it in the palm of his hand and pressing it
    > > down firmly in a kind of circular motion. Apparently it's supposed to polish the underside of
    > > the thing...
    > >
    > > I cant afford to see any more practitioners.
    > >
    > > => Any suggestions?!
    > >
    > > Ship Shiperton Henethe
    > >
    > > P.S. Is what I have "Chondromalacia" and or "Patellofemoral Syndrome" ?
     
  8. "Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Shiperton Henethe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Hi
    > >
    > > I have knee tracking problems. I have seen a podiatrist and I am told that my Vastus Medialis is
    > > (like many people) over developed compared to my Vastus Lateralis.
    > >
    > > I am told that there is a temporary cure which consists of a therapist digging her/her thumb
    > > into the Vastus Medialis really hard and that this "kills" (??) and/or weakens areas of this
    > > muscle.
    > >
    > > Does anyone know what's involved or what the technical term is (so that I can look it up) ??
    >
    > Bunch of stuff here: http://www.arthroscopy.com/sp05032.htm
    >
    > I had similar problems years ago when I was a regular runner. I was given at-home physical therapy
    > exercises to get my patella to track properly, it worked.
    >
    > I'd get another opinion if I were you, the first sounds dubious. See if
    you
    > can find a doc who knows sports medicine, patella tracking problems are
    very
    > common.

    Yes I've changed my mind and am now going to try for a second opinion, though I cant really
    afford it...

    Thanks for the link... I had already seen that one in fact, though I couldnt find much theraputic
    stuff on it...

    Ship Shiperton Henethe
     
  9. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "Shiperton Henethe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...

    > > I'd get another opinion if I were you, the first sounds dubious. See if
    > you
    > > can find a doc who knows sports medicine, patella tracking problems are
    > very
    > > common.
    >
    > Yes I've changed my mind and am now going to try for a second opinion, though I cant really
    > afford it...
    >
    > Thanks for the link... I had already seen that one in fact, though I couldnt find much theraputic
    > stuff on it...

    The physio exercise I was given was "dead leg lifts". You lay on your back, and lift one leg at a
    time to a 45 deg angle, keeping the knee locked and the toes pointed back toward your head, lower
    slowly. Work up to 100 reps each leg, do daily.

    I don't suppose it could hurt to try that, it supposedly strengthens some of the muscles which
    control the patella position. Since you don't actually flex the knee joint, you can do it even if
    you're sore. Mine cleared up in a couple of weeks, but I gave up running anyway, at 6'10", I figured
    it just wasn't my thing. Cycling is so much easier on the joints.
     
  10. Jimmie

    Jimmie Guest

    Peter Those are basic knee exercise, however to correct PFS, you need to be muscle specific...you
    may want to check newspaper (if you live in a city with large hospitals or medical schools) they
    frequently have free clinics or in need to evaluate patients for training purposes. Wish you luck

    "Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Shiperton Henethe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    >
    > > > I'd get another opinion if I were you, the first sounds dubious. See
    if
    > > you
    > > > can find a doc who knows sports medicine, patella tracking problems
    are
    > > very
    > > > common.
    > >
    > > Yes I've changed my mind and am now going to try for a second opinion, though I cant really
    > > afford it...
    > >
    > > Thanks for the link... I had already seen that one in fact, though I couldnt find much
    > > theraputic stuff on it...
    >
    > The physio exercise I was given was "dead leg lifts". You lay on your
    back,
    > and lift one leg at a time to a 45 deg angle, keeping the knee locked and
    the
    > toes pointed back toward your head, lower slowly. Work up to 100 reps each leg, do daily.
    >
    > I don't suppose it could hurt to try that, it supposedly strengthens some
    of
    > the muscles which control the patella position. Since you don't actually
    flex
    > the knee joint, you can do it even if you're sore. Mine cleared up in a
    couple
    > of weeks, but I gave up running anyway, at 6'10", I figured it just wasn't
    my
    > thing. Cycling is so much easier on the joints.
     
  11. Shiperton Henethe wrote:
    >
    > Thanks. I'll see what can be done re moving the saddle forward... I already use a pretty high
    > cadence if poss.

    One man's low cadence is another man's high cadence. Check and see what the actual number
    is sometime.

    > The few hard hills wont do damage then... ?

    I cannot say. If you do them right and the rest of your fit is good, then they shouldn't bother you
    provided you ease into them.

    -S-

    > Ship Shiperton Henethe
    >
    > > Several bicycle-related things for you to try:
    > >
    > > 1. If you're using a modern "clipless" pedal system, the fore/aft positioning of your foot is
    > > important, as well as the amount of float provided in the system you're using. Most people
    > > with knee problems prefer the pedal spindle line up a bit behind the ball of the foot -
    > > right at the ball of the foot is the usual recommendation. You might try this change. If
    > > you're using toe clips, be sure they're large enough. If your foot doesn't go into the clip
    > > enough, you have effectively the same issue as I describe above, with the pedal spindle
    > > being too far forward in relation to your foot.
    > >
    > > 2. Saddle fore/aft position also changes biomechanics and should be investigated. My knees are
    > > only happy when I sit relatively far forward. Most people who also run prefer their saddle
    > > further forward than people who only bike, and bike shops rarely take this into
    > > consideration unless they're used to triathletes.
    > >
    > > 3. Cycling cadence can change how the knee musculature develops and can also help or hinder the
    > > health of the joint itself. You may find that maintaining a high cadence feels good - it
    > > puts less stress on the knees. But some regular low-cadence work may help strengthen the
    > > muscles you need strengthened. All other things being equal, I would recommend a program of
    > > high-cadence, low-gear cycling, keeping the RPM in the 90-120 range, with a few hard hills
    > > thrown in to work the quads.
    > >
    > > -S-
    > >
    > >
    > > > I have seen a podiatrist and I am told that my Vastus Medialis is (like many people) over
    > > > developed compared to my Vastus Lateralis.
    > > >
    > > > I am told that there is a temporary cure which consists of a therapist digging her/her thumb
    > > > into the Vastus Medialis really hard and that this "kills" (??) and/or weakens areas of this
    > > > muscle.
    > > >
    > > > Does anyone know what's involved or what the technical term is (so that I can look it up) ??
    > > >
    > > > Background:
    > > >
    > > > I bicycle (a lot) and run (a bit). And I now want to go skiing in a few days time!
    > > >
    > > > My podiatrist gave me some quite extreme orthotics to put into my running shoes. But when I
    > > > ran today I seem to have quite badly irritated my knees (mainly the left one).
    > > >
    > > > I could try taping the knee caps up (to stop them moving towards each other) or I could try
    > > > some kind of know brace??
    > > >
    > > > Cycling (not too hard) seem to be fine but my knees *really* dont like running, particularly
    > > > down hill.
    > > >
    > > > I have tried stretching my hamstrings over the last few months and they are still a bit tight
    > > > but approaching normal. I have also been given an exercise where I sit on the floor with knees
    > > > bent at 90 degrees and let them flop apart from each other.
    > > >
    > > > Can anyone suggest any more effective stretches and/or exercises ?!
    > > >
    > > > Or recommend the best type of knee brace?
    > > >
    > > > I am male and 42. My blood test for arthritis was negative. My bicycle seat is at the correct
    > > > height.
    > > >
    > > > My physio once tried grinding the knee cap by holding it in the palm of his hand and pressing
    > > > it down firmly in a kind of circular motion. Apparently it's supposed to polish the underside
    > > > of the thing...
    > > >
    > > > I cant afford to see any more practitioners.
    > > >
    > > > => Any suggestions?!
    > > >
    > > > Ship Shiperton Henethe
    > > >
    > > > P.S. Is what I have "Chondromalacia" and or "Patellofemoral Syndrome" ?
     
  12. Yes agreed - my understanding is that the main problem is an *imbalance* of muscle strengths...

    Ship Shiperton Henethe

    "Jimmie" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Peter Those are basic knee exercise, however to correct PFS, you need to be muscle specific...you
    > may want to check newspaper (if you live in a city with large hospitals or medical schools) they
    > frequently have free clinics or in need to evaluate patients for training purposes. Wish you luck
    >
    > "Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > "Shiperton Henethe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > > "Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > > > I'd get another opinion if I were you, the first sounds dubious. See
    > if
    > > > you
    > > > > can find a doc who knows sports medicine, patella tracking problems
    > are
    > > > very
    > > > > common.
    > > >
    > > > Yes I've changed my mind and am now going to try for a second opinion, though I cant really
    > > > afford it...
    > > >
    > > > Thanks for the link... I had already seen that one in fact, though I couldnt find much
    > > > theraputic stuff on it...
    > >
    > > The physio exercise I was given was "dead leg lifts". You lay on your
    > back,
    > > and lift one leg at a time to a 45 deg angle, keeping the knee locked
    and
    > the
    > > toes pointed back toward your head, lower slowly. Work up to 100 reps
    each
    > > leg, do daily.
    > >
    > > I don't suppose it could hurt to try that, it supposedly strengthens
    some
    > of
    > > the muscles which control the patella position. Since you don't actually
    > flex
    > > the knee joint, you can do it even if you're sore. Mine cleared up in a
    > couple
    > > of weeks, but I gave up running anyway, at 6'10", I figured it just
    wasn't
    > my
    > > thing. Cycling is so much easier on the joints.
    > >
    >
     
  13. Well, my new (and more highly recommended) specialist said my arches didnt seem too badly fallen,
    that my bad knee is "a perfectly good knee" and that there's nothing wrong with it. No arthritis, no
    muscle problems...

    And that the whole problem is in my hips!

    He made me do this stretch where you stand in front of a bench/table and lift one leg onto the table
    in front of you and crossing it over the one you are standing on, you lay the raised leg down along
    the edge of the bench (so that the outside of you shin lies flat along the bench). You then put you
    hands down on the bench beyond your bent leg (on the bench) and have to try and touch the bench
    beyond the leg.

    Of course I couldnt.

    He then did various things including pressing his elbow into my hip *really* hard... and clicking my
    sacro-iliac... and then - by some miracle - I could touch the bench.

    Today the knee seems much better!

    On Sunday I go skiing for a week.

    Will keep you posted...

    Ship Shiperton Henethe

    "Shiperton Henethe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Yes agreed - my understanding is that the main problem is an *imbalance* of muscle strengths...
    >
    > Ship Shiperton Henethe
    >
    >
    > "Jimmie" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > Peter Those are basic knee exercise, however to correct PFS, you need to be muscle
    > > specific...you may want to check newspaper (if you live in a city with large hospitals or
    > > medical schools) they frequently have free
    clinics
    > > or in need to evaluate patients for training purposes. Wish you luck
    > >
    > > "Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > "Shiperton Henethe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > >
    > > > > "Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > > > > I'd get another opinion if I were you, the first sounds dubious.
    See
    > > if
    > > > > you
    > > > > > can find a doc who knows sports medicine, patella tracking
    problems
    > > are
    > > > > very
    > > > > > common.
    > > > >
    > > > > Yes I've changed my mind and am now going to try for a second opinion, though I cant really
    > > > > afford it...
    > > > >
    > > > > Thanks for the link... I had already seen that one in fact, though I couldnt find much
    > > > > theraputic stuff on it...
    > > >
    > > > The physio exercise I was given was "dead leg lifts". You lay on your
    > > back,
    > > > and lift one leg at a time to a 45 deg angle, keeping the knee locked
    > and
    > > the
    > > > toes pointed back toward your head, lower slowly. Work up to 100 reps
    > each
    > > > leg, do daily.
    > > >
    > > > I don't suppose it could hurt to try that, it supposedly strengthens
    > some
    > > of
    > > > the muscles which control the patella position. Since you don't
    actually
    > > flex
    > > > the knee joint, you can do it even if you're sore. Mine cleared up in
    a
    > > couple
    > > > of weeks, but I gave up running anyway, at 6'10", I figured it just
    > wasn't
    > > my
    > > > thing. Cycling is so much easier on the joints.
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >
     
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