Latest and greatest in lubricants??



R

RF

Guest
Hi Experts,

I have a 30 year old Dawes Galaxy that is in mint condition but I have
been neglecting the lubrication and want to catch up. Dawes suggested
dismantling both wheel bearings, the crank, and both head bearings every
two years but the manual didn't even suggest the lubricants that should
be used. My periods were random and usually much more than two years.

A search online came up with one suggestion that ATF is preferable to
engine oil on chains, because the engine oil is designed to attract
metallic and other particles.

I have just taken the head off the Galaxy and cleaned up the ball
bearings and race tracks. Now I am trying to decide which lubricant to
use - lithium grease or a more viscous bearing grease. The top bearing
was heavily gooed up and the grease was thick, which I found a bit
strange because I could see no way that dirt could enter it. The lower
bearing appeared to have thinner grease and was much cleaner. It was
exposed to the environment in a narrow slit around the circumference
which was facing down.

I have sent an email to Dawes asking about lubricants and will post the
answer here if I receive one.

TIA

RF
 
RF wrote:
> I have a 30 year old Dawes Galaxy that is in mint condition but I have
> been neglecting the lubrication and want to catch up. Dawes suggested
> dismantling both wheel bearings, the crank, and both head bearings every
> two years but the manual didn't even suggest the lubricants that should
> be used. My periods were random and usually much more than two years.
>
> A search online came up with one suggestion that ATF is preferable to
> engine oil on chains, because the engine oil is designed to attract
> metallic and other particles.
>
> I have just taken the head off the Galaxy and cleaned up the ball
> bearings and race tracks. Now I am trying to decide which lubricant to
> use - lithium grease or a more viscous bearing grease. The top bearing
> was heavily gooed up and the grease was thick, which I found a bit
> strange because I could see no way that dirt could enter it. The lower
> bearing appeared to have thinner grease and was much cleaner. It was
> exposed to the environment in a narrow slit around the circumference
> which was facing down.
> I have sent an email to Dawes asking about lubricants and will post the
> answer here if I receive one.

There are many acceptable answers and many opinions within and outside
that range.

We use Lubriplate 130AA white lithium grease because:
- Its' acceptably good (we found 630 overly stiff and 107/110 too thin)
-Designed for loose-ball applications (front end lube can push out of
ball bearing assemblies )
- Closest available lubricant to classic Campagnolo white lithium
grease, which we liked a lot despite a lousy package.
- It's available in handy sized tubes (doesn't fill with crud like jars)
- It's white so we can see the amount of contamination next time in.
- Our local Lubriplate distributor delivers cases of it promptly.

Many other good answers, that's mine

p.s. Since Dawes did not actually make any of the bearing assemblies
they may not be any more expert than I.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
On Sep 24, 4:43 pm, RF <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Experts,
>
> I have a 30 year old Dawes Galaxy that is in mint condition but I have
> been neglecting the lubrication and want to catch up. Dawes suggested
> dismantling both wheel bearings, the crank, and both head bearings every
> two years but the manual didn't even suggest the lubricants that should
> be used. My periods were random and usually much more than two years.

For bearings, go to the automotive store, get a tub of grease. It
matters little what kind, just pack the cups generously. Some folks
swear by boat trailer bearing grease, which I think has a higher
viscosity. I use the cheap "Coastal" stuff and it works fine. Get some
bike stuff if the macho smell of the automotive versions bug ya.
Repack as needed. I also repack new hubs first thing, as they never
come with enough grease.

Chain lube is a religious issue, but you can't go wrong with a classic
dry lube. The best deal is the Dupont brand lube at Lowes. Why pay
more for the tiny can with the cyclist on it? Plenty of posts about
this. I probably already offended someone.
 
Walmart in Florida sells Castrol Marine grease for boat trailer wheel
bearings. Boat trailer wheel bearings take a serious beating from salt
water and forgetfull owners.
The castrol is a real surprise. The stuff is SLIPPERY, doesn't washout
without a fight as in rear derailleur pulleys, yet is thick to cushion
bearings rolling in less than perfect races.
I've tried the usual greases mentioned in RBT, including lubriplate
which is excellent, but all around the 21st century castrol is
literally hard to beat.
Is your frame steel? take it apart and clean it out then pour some
linseed oil into it on a hot day to prevent rusting.
 
On Sep 24, 5:40 pm, datakoll <[email protected]> wrote:
> Walmart in Florida sells Castrol Marine grease for boat trailer wheel
> bearings. Boat trailer wheel bearings take a serious beating from salt
> water and forgetfull owners.
> The castrol is a real surprise. The stuff is SLIPPERY, doesn't washout
> without a fight as in rear derailleur pulleys, yet is thick to cushion
> bearings rolling in less than perfect races.
> I've tried the usual greases mentioned in RBT, including lubriplate
> which is excellent, but all around the 21st century castrol is
> literally hard to beat.
> Is your frame steel? take it apart and clean it out then pour some
> linseed oil into it on a hot day to prevent rusting.

Bottom line is our machines would wither and die without petroleum
even though they don't burn it.

R.
 
On Sep 24, 8:04 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sep 24, 5:40 pm, datakoll <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Walmart in Florida sells Castrol Marine grease for boat trailer wheel
> > bearings. Boat trailer wheel bearings take a serious beating from salt
> > water and forgetfull owners.
> > The castrol is a real surprise. The stuff is SLIPPERY, doesn't washout
> > without a fight as in rear derailleur pulleys, yet is thick to cushion
> > bearings rolling in less than perfect races.
> > I've tried the usual greases mentioned in RBT, including lubriplate
> > which is excellent, but all around the 21st century castrol is
> > literally hard to beat.
> > Is your frame steel? take it apart and clean it out then pour some
> > linseed oil into it on a hot day to prevent rusting.
>
> Bottom line is our machines would wither and die without petroleum
> even though they don't burn it.
>
> R.

hey FOGETABOUTIT!!
 
A Muzi wrote:
>> [snip]
>
> We use Lubriplate 130AA white lithium grease because:
> [snip]
> - It's white so we can see the amount of contamination next time in.

This may be showing just how really stupid I am, but as a Phil user I
never thought of this advantage. Is that why white grease is white?
 
> A Muzi wrote:
>>> [snip]
>> We use Lubriplate 130AA white lithium grease because:
>> [snip]
>> - It's white so we can see the amount of contamination next time in.

blisterlester wrote:
> This may be showing just how really stupid I am, but as a Phil user I
> never thought of this advantage. Is that why white grease is white?

We find it useful in that way but as far as I know grease may be tinted
just about any color, mostly for branding.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
RF wrote:
> Hi Experts,
>
> I have a 30 year old Dawes Galaxy that is in mint condition but I have
> been neglecting the lubrication and want to catch up. Dawes suggested
> dismantling both wheel bearings, the crank, and both head bearings every
> two years but the manual didn't even suggest the lubricants that should
> be used.

Grease. Any grease will be OK. I use lithium, but others use different
things. If you have non-clipless pedals, those also need repacking.
Replace all the bearings --- after 30 years, it's time.

My periods were random and usually much more than two years.

More than 2 years is not good. Either that represents a lot of miles,
or a lot of time sitting around, possibly with water in the grease.

I like to re-pack any serviceable bearings -- these days, that means
hubs and derailleur idlers -- every winter. I also shoot grease in the
pedals, replace the cables, oil other pivots, and check out the rest.
>
> A search online came up with one suggestion that ATF is preferable to
> engine oil on chains, because the engine oil is designed to attract
> metallic and other particles.

Pshaw. ATF will be just as "designed" to do that, for the same reason
-- both are intended to keep particles in suspension. That rationale
does not differentiate between the two. Besides, there wasn't a
conscious effort to "design" motor oil to do that, it simply does do
that, which seems like a good thing. The use of motor oil predates any
design of such properties.

So, if it attracts crud, clean it. If you don't like the crud on the
outside, use a wax-based lube.
>
> I have just taken the head off the Galaxy and cleaned up the ball
> bearings and race tracks.

Replace the balls, grade 25. Replace all of your balls. No, not those.

Now I am trying to decide which lubricant to
> use - lithium grease or a more viscous bearing grease.

More viscous grease, such as Phil Wood's, is overkill unless you ride a
lot in the rain. Lithium is fine.

The top bearing
> was heavily gooed up and the grease was thick, which I found a bit
> strange because I could see no way that dirt could enter it.

Oil dries out in time. Grease is oil mixed with a "soap". It will dry
out, eventually. This has probably taken several years to get in this
state.

The lower
> bearing appeared to have thinner grease and was much cleaner.

Nah. more of it washed out.

--

David L. Johnson

Let's be straight here. If we find something we can't understand we
like to call it something you can't understand, or indeed even
pronounce.
-- Douglas Adams
 
[email protected] wrote:

> Bottom line is our machines would wither and die without petroleum
> even though they don't burn it.

Lard would probably work as a bearing grease.

--

David L. Johnson

Let's be straight here. If we find something we can't understand we
like to call it something you can't understand, or indeed even
pronounce.
-- Douglas Adams
 
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 01:00:18 -0400, "David L. Johnson"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>
>> Bottom line is our machines would wither and die without petroleum
>> even though they don't burn it.
>
>Lard would probably work as a bearing grease.

Dear David,

Bah! You must be in the pay of the lard and whale-oil industries,
whose products are little better than snake-oil!

Proper bicyclists use natural rawhide bearings:

"Four days later, another blacksmith fitted some iron plates or
washers behind the bearing boxes [of a 46-inch highwheeler], for the
shoulders of these had been filed down so far, to offset the wear of
the upper bearings, that the cams would no longer hold."

"Further filings in the course of the next week's journey, almost
obliterated the 'coned' character of the boxes and reduced them nearly
to the condition of flat pieces of metal; so that at Cazenovia, 1,488
miles from the time of the repairs at Hartford, I was forced to make
my first experiment with rawhide as a material for bearings."

"This substance becomes pliable after several hours' soaking in water,
and strips of it can then be fitted between the upper side of the axle
and the ends of the fork, to compensate for the wear of the coned
surfaces."

"When dry, the rawhide is about as durable and unyielding as steel;
but, as I took a ride of eight miles within a few hours of applying it
to the axle, and continued my journey early the next morning, the
strips worked out of their places and protruded from the sides, where
they attracted enough moisture in an all-day's ride through the rain,
to still further impair their usefulness."

"After 215 miles' usage, therefore, I replaced them with new strips;
and, though I waited only twelve hours for these to harden, they kept
in position and rendered good service without further attentions for
the remaining 994 miles of my record [10,000 miles]."

"I doubt if I should have been able to finish this without new cones
on the fork, unless I had resorted to the rawhide. Such resort,
however, I do not venture to recommend except for bearings which are
very badly worn; and I should say that at least twenty-four hours
ought to be allowed for hardening, after the damp strips have been
applied to the axle."

"I may add that rawhide is an article not readily procurable, for I
learned that in the whole of Syracuse, which is a city of 60,000
people, there was only one place (a trunk-maker's) where it could be
obtained."

--Karl Kron, circa 1884, "Ten Thousand Miles on a Bicycle" p. 43-4

Cheers,

Carl Fogel
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"David L. Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote:

> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > Bottom line is our machines would wither and die without petroleum
> > even though they don't burn it.
>
> Lard would probably work as a bearing grease.

Work, but not effective as petroleum.
Different chemical structures.
For instance, lard contains esters and breaks
down chemically into varnish.
Also, bacteria eat lard, but do not eat petroleum.
There is nothing like long chain alkanes
for stable oils.

--
Michael Press
 
"Michael Press" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Also, bacteria eat lard, but do not eat petroleum.

They do:
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.fcgi?artid=373661&pageindex=1
and
http://www.epa.gov/fedfac/documents/petrol.htm
"Biodegradation - At many sites, natural bacteria in the soil and
groundwater will use petroleum compounds as their primary source of energy
or food. Although the rate at which bacteria destroy petroleum products will
vary from site to site, natural biodegradation has now been documented at
many contaminated sites around the world."
 
David L. Johnson wrote:
> RF wrote:
>> Hi Experts,
>>
>> I have a 30 year old Dawes Galaxy that is in mint condition but I have
>> been neglecting the lubrication and want to catch up. Dawes suggested
>> dismantling both wheel bearings, the crank, and both head bearings
>> every two years but the manual didn't even suggest the lubricants that
>> should be used.
>
> Grease. Any grease will be OK. I use lithium, but others use different
> things. If you have non-clipless pedals, those also need repacking.
> Replace all the bearings --- after 30 years, it's time.
>
> My periods were random and usually much more than two years.
>
> More than 2 years is not good. Either that represents a lot of miles,
> or a lot of time sitting around, possibly with water in the grease.
>
> I like to re-pack any serviceable bearings -- these days, that means
> hubs and derailleur idlers -- every winter. I also shoot grease in the
> pedals, replace the cables, oil other pivots, and check out the rest.
>>
>> A search online came up with one suggestion that ATF is preferable to
>> engine oil on chains, because the engine oil is designed to attract
>> metallic and other particles.
>
> Pshaw. ATF will be just as "designed" to do that, for the same reason
> -- both are intended to keep particles in suspension. That rationale
> does not differentiate between the two. Besides, there wasn't a
> conscious effort to "design" motor oil to do that, it simply does do
> that, which seems like a good thing. The use of motor oil predates any
> design of such properties.
>
> So, if it attracts crud, clean it. If you don't like the crud on the
> outside, use a wax-based lube.
>>
>> I have just taken the head off the Galaxy and cleaned up the ball
>> bearings and race tracks.
>
> Replace the balls, grade 25. Replace all of your balls. No, not those.
>
> Now I am trying to decide which lubricant to
>> use - lithium grease or a more viscous bearing grease.
>
> More viscous grease, such as Phil Wood's, is overkill unless you ride a
> lot in the rain. Lithium is fine.
>
> The top bearing
>> was heavily gooed up and the grease was thick, which I found a bit
>> strange because I could see no way that dirt could enter it.
>
> Oil dries out in time. Grease is oil mixed with a "soap". It will dry
> out, eventually. This has probably taken several years to get in this
> state.
>
> The lower
>> bearing appeared to have thinner grease and was much cleaner.
>
> Nah. more of it washed out.
>

My thanks to everyone for the great replies.

They have given me enough to chew on for at least a week ;-)

RF
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"Jambo" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Michael Press" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Also, bacteria eat lard, but do not eat petroleum.
>
> They do:
> http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.fcgi?artid=373661&pageindex=1
> and
> http://www.epa.gov/fedfac/documents/petrol.htm
> "Biodegradation - At many sites, natural bacteria in the soil and
> groundwater will use petroleum compounds as their primary source of energy
> or food. Although the rate at which bacteria destroy petroleum products will
> vary from site to site, natural biodegradation has now been documented at
> many contaminated sites around the world."

Bacteria do not eat wheel bearing grease;
not at such a rate that it compares to
the normal migration of oil out of the grease.

--
Michael Press
 
"Michael Press" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bacteria do not eat wheel bearing grease;
> not at such a rate that it compares to
> the normal migration of oil out of the grease.

Sure, and it depends on where you're at: bacterial degradation of petroleum
products due to long-term storage is a well-documented issue, but not likely
to happen with high-turnovers of hardware store grease products.

However, your statement was that bacteria do not eat petroleum - in fact,
they do.
 
On Sep 27, 9:10 pm, "Jambo" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Michael Press" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > Bacteria do not eat wheel bearing grease;
> > not at such a rate that it compares to
> > the normal migration of oil out of the grease.
>
> Sure, and it depends on where you're at: bacterial degradation of petroleum
> products due to long-term storage is a well-documented issue, but not likely
> to happen with high-turnovers of hardware store grease products.
>
> However, your statement was that bacteria do not eat petroleum - in fact,
> they do.

A major pollutant of forests given to lumbering is or was petrol-based
chain saw oil. The numbers really are startling when added up. So the
chain saw industry came up with soy based substitutes, required, I
think, in many countries and smaller jurisdictions.

Anyway,I saw $4 quarts of chain saw oil and an $8 gallon of the stuff
endorsed by or for one of the major chain saw mfgs, Poulan, "Who knows
more about lubricating chains?" If I can find the 4 oz bottles, my
cycling friends will have "hand-filled" bottles of Poulan chain oil
for Christmas. And the following Christmas......
 
[email protected] wrote:

> Anyway,I saw $4 quarts of chain saw oil and an $8 gallon of the stuff
> endorsed by or for one of the major chain saw mfgs, Poulan, "Who knows
> more about lubricating chains?" If I can find the 4 oz bottles, my
> cycling friends will have "hand-filled" bottles of Poulan chain oil
> for Christmas. And the following Christmas......

Make up some fancy labels, and come up with a good name for it. It's
ironic that what's one of the best lubricant for bicycle chains is also
the cheapest, but it gets no respect because it isn't exotic enough.

Actually 4 ounces is not enough since you really want to soak the whole
chain in the stuff, not just drip it on the outside. Get the quarts and
make a big label to go over the existing label. Harrilube or Travoil
might be good names. Or maybe Travoil by Harrilube.

Steve
"http://bicyclechain.info/"
 
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