Lighting--Update to http://bicyclelighting.com

On 30 Oct 2004 16:40:01 -0700, [email hidden] (Steven Scharf)

wrote in message : said:

I'd be uneasy about leaving a dynamo system on my bike--the decent
ones cost more than some commute bikes. A B&M Dymotec S12 costs
$316.50, just for the dynamo, with about another $115 for the lights,
about 9x what my high power quartz-halogen, lead-acid battery system
costs!

On the other hand I just equipped a bike with a good quality bottle
dynamo lighting system - including Busch & Muller lights - for under
$150, and although I know *many* people who have had battery and
rechargeable lights stolen, I have never met anybody who has had a
dynamo or dynamo lights taken. I have hub dynamos on two of my bikes,
secured with keyed QRs, and the risk of losing those without also
losing the bike is trivial. The latest Shimano Nexus hub is under
$120 from a Sheldon near you.

There is simply no better solution for commuter bike or tourer
lighting than a hub dynamo. The lights are always there, if you leave
the office unexpectedly late there's no worry about not having lights
with you that day. I ride on unlit country roads and was so pleased
with the lights on my tourer (Nexus) that I bought the SON for my
recumbent. Worth every penny.

I have also tried rechargeable lights and found them a faff.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Frank Krygowski said:

Mark Wolfe said:

Zoot Katz said:

Dynamo powered lights are for serious cyclists. You don't need one.

Hard to setup the tent by the light of the Dynamo. 🙂

After the third day of touring, it's hard to set up the tent by the
light of your rechargeable battery too. And just as hard to ride by
its light.

Touring - especially in fairly remote areas - makes good use of a
generator's attributes. It lights your way as long as you care to
ride.

The issue for me is wanting to make a quick trip to the store, and not having
fresh batteries on hand. This will be more of a pain as of today, when we're
back on Daylight Wastings Time. The other issue is having to put lights on and
take them off again so they don't get stolen. Stealing a generator setup would
probably require enough tinkering to get attention from bystanders. Anyway, it
would be nice to have a bike that's always ready to go anywhere, at any time,
without any preparation.

Matt O.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tim McNamara said:

In practice the drag is imperceptible with a Schmidt SON, taking well
under 10W, IIRC about 6W. Generator (or dynamo, I don't actually know
the difference) hubs in general have less drag than those drive off
the tire or rim and tend to be more efficient. The Audax UK Web site
has a link to an article by Chris Juden in which the drag of various
generators (or dynamos, if you prefer).

The drag from old-school bottle generators is not intolerable.
You just go a little slower -- which I normally do at night
anyway.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

David Damerell said:

dgk said:

Maybe a generator isn't a bad idea since it really just adds a little
more resistance and I AM doing this primarily for exercise and fat
burning. But, if it is worth anything it is going to get stolen, and
them I'm stuck somewhere with no lights.

I've left my bike, dynamo and all, overnight in all kinds of places
without problems - several times in London railway stations (some of which
are accessible all night), in run down parts of town, etc.

Generally speaking bike thieves are after bikes, not small bolted-on bits
which are worth maybe a tenner second-hand.

OTOH, I have had a Schwinn-branded dynamo (I believe it was actually a
Union) stolen despite it having almost no resale value. Also had
my handlebars/stem stolen once. Both were on a college campus and in
both cases the main problem was fixing all the ancillary damage done
when the items were taken (cables cut, frame marred, etc.).

Quoted message said:

Steven Scharf said:

I'd be uneasy about leaving a dynamo system on my bike--the decent
ones cost more than some commute bikes. A B&M Dymotec S12 costs
$316.50, just for the dynamo, with about another $115 for the lights,
about 9x what my high power quartz-halogen, lead-acid battery system
costs!

Frank Krygowski said:

Yep, Steven's _still_ searching out the most expensive generators he can
find, and quoting their prices as if they are the only things available.
Complete generator sets, with headlights, are available from roughly $16
to hundreds of dollars. Typical prices are about $50, not $432.
Anyone interested can check The Yellow Jersey, Peter White, Sheldon
Brown's place (Harris Cycles), Loose Screws, etc. etc.
Here's just one.
http://www.thethirdhand.com/index.cgi?d=single&c=Accessories&sc=Generator&tc=&item_id=UF-23009&id=68342941586
or http://tinyurl.com/3w8r4

If price matters you can spend even less:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/lolite.html

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Steven M. Scharf said:

The Cat Eye LD1000 is available from Harris Cyclery. This is
the only flashing LED rear lamp with wide angle visibility,
that is available in the U.S.
(http://harriscyclery.net/site/itemdetails.cfm?ID=1578).
...
Can someone explain why there is only ONE shop in the entire
country that sells a decent LED flasher?

Not so: last month I bought a _Mega Strobe_ from Hostel Shoppe in
Wisconsin, and it's quite a piece of work: 5 inches wide, 3-1/4 inches
high, weighs 5 ounces without batteries (four AA cells), fifteen LEDs to
the rear (!), and two LEDs to the sides (like the LD1000):

http://www.hostelshoppe.com/cgi-bin/readitem.pl?Accessory=1016481474

--
"Bicycling is a healthy and manly pursuit with much
to recommend it, and, unlike other foolish crazes,
it has not died out." -- The Daily Telegraph (1877)

Frank Krygowski said:

dgk said:

Theft of bicycle parts should not be a laughing matter in a bicycle
newsgroup. I like my kickstands.

No problem. Some of my best friends use kickstands. ;-)

Quoted message said:

When I bought my first post-age40 bike I went with a friend who knows
bikes pretty well. He insisted that I didn't want a kickstand because
it would only add weight. So I ended up leaning it against things and
having it fall over or scraping stuff. Lots of little dings and
scrapes, all for lack of a kickstand.

As an alternative, there used to be a little plastic thing sold by Jim
Blackburn, a sort of stepped plastic block, about 3/4" x 1.25" x 0.25"
with a short string to tie to your brake cable. It clipped onto the
cable while riding. When parking, you'd squeeze the front brake and jam
this thing in the lever opening, to hold the brake closed.

This gave you a front wheel "parking brake." It made the bike much,
much more stable when leaning against an object. It also provided a
tiny bit of security for running into a store for a few seconds. (I met
a guy who did that, and came out to see a teenager falling to the ground
after trying to jump on his bike and get away.)

Anyway, those Brake Blocks aren't for sale any more, AFAIK, but I've
made replicas out of scrap plastic. It's another possibility. Or maybe
a useful addition.

That's a great device. Of course. I would forget to remove it and end
up on the ground.

Prior to this past May I was bringing the bike into work on the train
in the morning, then riding home. But it had this tendency to roll
into other people on the train so I wrapped a few rubber bands around
the brake grip, and that kept my hand from getting sore holding it.
But now I'm riding in to work as well as out so that trick is no
longer necessary.

Mark Wolfe said:

Zoot Katz said:

You mean, _when_ the battery goes dead on your plug-and-play bicycle.
Dynamo powered lights are for serious cyclists. You don't need one.

Hard to setup the tent by the light of the Dynamo. 🙂

That is what the battery-powered LED headlight is for, which you carry
anyway because it's as cheap as dirt to run, doesn't weigh much, and
no-one who really wants to ride all night will rely on _any_ one lighting
system - what if it dies?
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!

Tim McNamara said:

In practice the drag is imperceptible with a Schmidt SON, taking well
under 10W, IIRC about 6W.

The downside to this is the tendency to look down during the daytime and
go "Hey!" every now and then.

Quoted message said:

Generator (or dynamo, I don't actually know the difference) hubs

In most contexts the distinction is between devices which output DC or AC
power. However in this context it simply depends on which country you are
from; in American English they are "generators" and in British English
they are "dynamos". I don't know about other languages, except that I
would presume that the Germans say "dynamo".
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!

"Victor Kan" <[email hidden]_UCEloopdrive.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Zoot Katz said:

You need a front hub anyway so why give it a free ride.

Not quite free, unless dynamo hub manufacturers have found away around
the laws of physics, or your rides are all downhill and you'd be riding
a drag brake the whole time :-).

Not a bad idea to charge a battery powered system during downhill runs. Of
course you're correct that the dynamo or the hub isn't a free ride. The hub
is even less free, since you have some wasted power even when the lights are
off.

"Rick Warner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It is his ideological insistence on 12V that is the issue.

Nonsense. It is my insistence on bright lights, which require a 6W dynamo. A
6V/1A/6W dynamo would also be fine, though a 12V/0.5A/6W dynamo is a more
efficient.

What isn't fine, especially during commutes, is 6V/3W. Even though you can
jury-rig two 6V 3W lamps in series, and switch one of them in when you're
going fast enough to power both, this is not a good solution during commutes
with a lot of start/stop riding, or where the rider is just a slower rider.

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On the other hand I just equipped a bike with a good quality bottle
dynamo lighting system - including Busch & Muller lights - for under
$150, and although I know *many* people who have had battery and
rechargeable lights stolen, I have never met anybody who has had a
dynamo or dynamo lights taken.

Even $150 is a lot of money for some people. Rechargeable lights that are
easily removed, should be removed by the owner when parking. I permanently
attach my lights, so that removing them is more than flipping a
quick-release.

It really isn't a meaningful comparison to compare absolute numbers of
stolen dynamo lights versus stolen rechargeable lights, since so few people
use dynamos.

Steven M. Scharf said:

Nonsense. It is my insistence on bright lights, which require a 6W dynamo. A
6V/1A/6W dynamo would also be fine, though a 12V/0.5A/6W dynamo is a more
efficient.

The SON and the Nexus will both do this.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Steven M. Scharf said:

Quoted message said:

On the other hand I just equipped a bike with a good quality bottle
dynamo lighting system - including Busch & Muller lights - for under
$150, and although I know *many* people who have had battery and
rechargeable lights stolen, I have never met anybody who has had a
dynamo or dynamo lights taken.

Quoted message said:

Even $150 is a lot of money for some people.

Sure, and for them there are cheaper dynamo systems. This was a good
quality system, Busch & Muller all round. A good quality rechargeable
system costs at least as much.

Quoted message said:

Rechargeable lights that are
easily removed, should be removed by the owner when parking. I permanently
attach my lights, so that removing them is more than flipping a
quick-release.

Removing your lights every time you park? What an odd idea! Do you
remove key components from your car every time you park?

I leave the lights on the bike, secure n the knowledge that not only
does this make the bike less attractive to thieves, the lights
themselves are of no interest to the average chav.

The big plus is I don't have to worry about finding the lights if I
want to nip out to the shops, or taking them with me "just in case"
when I might be late back, or how I get home if I am delayed or the
weather is worse than expected. My bicycle is a vehicle, and I use it
for transportation. Built-on lights is part of that, and the most
convenient way of doing that - most convenient by a large margin - is
a dynamo system.

Now you might want more light than a dynamo system can provide, but
the fact that I ride regularly on unlit country roads with a bike
equipped with a SON and two headlights (in series, 12V system) tells
me that it should be adequate for most users.

The exception is off-road. Here the tightly-focused beams of dynamo
headlights do not illuminate enough of the surrounding area to allow
fast progress, and slow progress reduces the available power. I don't
know how common night-time offroading is, and I don't do it so I don't
have an opinion, other than the fact that the one time I rode my
tourer on an offroad track coming back from an evening ride, I needed
a bit more light. Note that this was an off-road track, not an
unmetalled bikepath. I ride along by the river at night quite often,
no problem.

Quoted message said:

It really isn't a meaningful comparison to compare absolute numbers of
stolen dynamo lights versus stolen rechargeable lights, since so few people
use dynamos.

But it is valid to compare the measures the two communities need to
take to avoid their lights being stolen. It's a utility thing.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Steven M. Scharf said:

"Rick Warner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

It is his ideological insistence on 12V that is the issue.

Nonsense. It is my insistence on bright lights, which require a 6W dynamo.

First, the unsupported assertion that 3W isn't bright enough. You ever
going to offer any proof there?

Quoted message said:

What isn't fine, especially during commutes, is 6V/3W. Even though you can
jury-rig two 6V 3W lamps in series, and switch one of them in when you're
going fast enough to power both, this is not a good solution during commutes
with a lot of start/stop riding, or where the rider is just a slower rider.

Even accepting the unsupported assertion, which I don't, this is also
nonsense. Two lamps in series will be going fine at 10-12mph; below that
speed, you have to wonder how motorists evade unlit objects like lampposts
if they can't manage to spot a cyclist making 8mph with a 3W lamp out
front.

What it really means is that you will always demand the most expensive
dynamo system. Did you buy a job lot of MR16s 2 years ago, or something?
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!

"LioNiNoiL_a t_Y a h 0 0_d 0 t_c 0 m" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:cmlhd.91271$cJ3.50679@fed1read06...

Quoted message said:

Steven M. Scharf said:

The Cat Eye LD1000 is available from Harris Cyclery. This is
the only flashing LED rear lamp with wide angle visibility,
that is available in the U.S.
(http://harriscyclery.net/site/itemdetails.cfm?ID=1578).
...
Can someone explain why there is only ONE shop in the entire
country that sells a decent LED flasher?

Not so: last month I bought a _Mega Strobe_ from Hostel Shoppe in
Wisconsin, and it's quite a piece of work: 5 inches wide, 3-1/4 inches
high, weighs 5 ounces without batteries (four AA cells), fifteen LEDs to
the rear (!), and two LEDs to the sides (like the LD1000):

http://www.hostelshoppe.com/cgi-bin/readitem.pl?Accessory=1016481474

Thanks, I added this to my site.

"A Muzi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If price matters you can spend even less:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/lolite.html

Thanks, I added this to my site. I already had one low-cost 12V/6W system up
there. I divided the dynamo section into three levels of quality.

Just zis Guy said:

Steven M. Scharf said:

Quoted message said:

On the other hand I just equipped a bike with a good quality bottle
dynamo lighting system - including Busch & Muller lights - for under
$150, and although I know *many* people who have had battery and
rechargeable lights stolen, I have never met anybody who has had a
dynamo or dynamo lights taken.

Quoted message said:

Even $150 is a lot of money for some people.

Sure, and for them there are cheaper dynamo systems. This was a good
quality system, Busch & Muller all round. A good quality rechargeable
system costs at least as much.

Oh, no it doesn't. What's wrong with this one?

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=17690&subcategory_ID=4320

If brand names are important to you -- Nightrider, which most people consider a
"quality" brand name, sells essentially the same thing for $20 more.

Matt O.

"Peter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

OTOH, I have had a Schwinn-branded dynamo (I believe it was actually a
Union) stolen despite it having almost no resale value. Also had
my handlebars/stem stolen once. Both were on a college campus and in
both cases the main problem was fixing all the ancillary damage done
when the items were taken (cables cut, frame marred, etc.).

On my battery powered system, the rear racktop bag with the battery, comes
with me. The front and rear lamps would cost me less than $20, total, to
replace. But I think the fact that the lights are not quick-release, and tha
they aren't usable without the battery, makes them less attractive to a
thief. But I can see how some commercial re-chargeable lights would be an
attractive target, since they are usually designed to be taken off the bike
quickly.

On college campuses they'll steal anything that isn't welded or locked to
the bike.You want to lock both wheels, the frame, the seat, the pedals, the
rear rack, etc.

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sure, and for them there are cheaper dynamo systems. This was a good
quality system, Busch & Muller all round. A good quality rechargeable
system costs at least as much.

Well that was the point of my whole web site, that you can build a good
rechargeable system for much less than that. Even a good commercial system
can be obtained for well under $100, i.e.
http://aebike.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=30&SKU=LT7814 plus one of the high
end, wide-angle, LED blinkers.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Rechargeable lights that are
easily removed, should be removed by the owner when parking. I

permanently

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

attach my lights, so that removing them is more than flipping a
quick-release.

Removing your lights every time you park? What an odd idea! Do you
remove key components from your car every time you park?

None of the key components are unlocked for easy theft. I do not remove my
lights, because they aren't expensive. The battery is in my rack bag, which
does come with me.

Quoted message said:

I leave the lights on the bike, secure n the knowledge that not only
does this make the bike less attractive to thieves, the lights
themselves are of no interest to the average chav.

Huh?

Quoted message said:

The big plus is I don't have to worry about finding the lights if I
want to nip out to the shops, or taking them with me "just in case"
when I might be late back, or how I get home if I am delayed or the
weather is worse than expected. My bicycle is a vehicle, and I use it
for transportation. Built-on lights is part of that, and the most
convenient way of doing that - most convenient by a large margin - is
a dynamo system.

This makes no sense. With battery powered lights, they remain on the bike
when you get home.

Quoted message said:

Now you might want more light than a dynamo system can provide, but
the fact that I ride regularly on unlit country roads with a bike
equipped with a SON and two headlights (in series, 12V system) tells
me that it should be adequate for most users.

How does your own personal experience tell you that it should be adequate
for everyone else? In fact, the areas where high brightness lights are
especially important are in the urban environment, not on country roads.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It really isn't a meaningful comparison to compare absolute numbers of
stolen dynamo lights versus stolen rechargeable lights, since so few

people

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

use dynamos.

But it is valid to compare the measures the two communities need to
take to avoid their lights being stolen. It's a utility thing.

Perhaps. But people probably take their pumps with them when they leave
their bike, they take their seats (or lock them up), etc.

I don't take my lights with me, and I won't get upset of they get stolen,
since they don't cost much. I'd be much more upset at the loss of a $120 to
$350 dynamo.