Looking for advice on commuting

lifeisgood said:

Is a drop handle bar better or worse than the hybrid-style flat handle
bar for commuting? (safety terms mostly - seeing oncoming lunatics
etc)

FSVO "commuting". I commute mostly through city traffic, and I prefer
the upright position with flat(ish) bars for better visibility; it's
seldom that I'm wanting or needing the drop position for speed. Plus,
having my hands on the outside of drops sometimes feels vulnerable.

R.

lifeisgood said:

Dear all,

I apologise if this is too much of a newbie post...

I currently commute through London on an old £150 Halfords mountain
bike thing. The top front gear is something like 40 teeth.
I am almost constantly in the top few gears except for some hills, and
believe that I could get some extra speed by going for a "proper" road
bike (reduced tire friction, higher gearing ratios first time i will
use cleats etc), so I am in the market this week.

However I am concerned about 3 things

Is a drop handle bar better or worse than the hybrid-style flat handle
bar for commuting? (safety terms mostly - seeing oncoming lunatics
etc)

It seems that Specialized, Marin, Giant are the main manufacturers
these days, and their road bikes seem pricier than the MTBs. Is this
true or are there secret, amazingly cheap road bikes that only the
initiated can find?

I have got my self measured (bikefitting.com) so I have a reasonable
idea what size bike to use. Was I wasting my money?

Money definitely not wasted. For London I would be inclined towards a
mountain bike fitted with slick tyres, better gearing and no suspension.
It will deal with the poorer roads better, allow you to take shortcuts
easier and the upright position is better for seeing over traffic as to
what is happening. I would only go for drop bars if there was a long
distance of traffic free road to speed along. If you give us a price
range and a better description of the type of commute I am sure we can
give some good suggestions for you.

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

lifeisgood said:

I apologise if this is too much of a newbie post...

None needed...

Quoted message said:

I currently commute through London on an old £150 Halfords mountain
bike thing. The top front gear is something like 40 teeth.
I am almost constantly in the top few gears except for some hills, and
believe that I could get some extra speed by going for a "proper" road
bike

You could, but for starters you could probably increase speed
considerably by training yourself to ride at higher cadences, which just
takes practice. Select lower gears but spin the pedals faster, and aim
to get to cadences of about 80+ rpm. Many people cycle about at half
these cadences, and it just leaves you nowhere to go on your gear
selection (as you've found).

Quoted message said:

(reduced tire friction, higher gearing ratios first time i will
use cleats etc)

To reduce tyre friction on your MTB, change the tyres you have for
slicks. These will give you better grip on roads anyway, as well as
being quicker and quieter. Make sure you have them pumped up to the
maximum end of the inflation range.

As above, higher gear ratios aren't /necessarily/ a good thing. But for
a lot less than the cost of a new bike you can just fit a bigger
chainwheel... Similarly. nothing to stop you using cleats on an MTB,
many do: just fit "clipless pedals", get some suitable shoes and off you go.

Quoted message said:

Is a drop handle bar better or worse than the hybrid-style flat handle
bar for commuting? (safety terms mostly - seeing oncoming lunatics
etc)

Bit of a non-issue, frankly. The main point of drops is to give more
positions, not /just/ getting your head down. Ride on the hoods and
you'll have a better view.

Quoted message said:

It seems that Specialized, Marin, Giant are the main manufacturers
these days, and their road bikes seem pricier than the MTBs. Is this
true or are there secret, amazingly cheap road bikes that only the
initiated can find?

Try Edinburgh Bike Co-op, or just look through the Rags for stuff in
Last Year's Colours.
Road bikes from the above are only more expensive than the cheap MTBs,
look at the serious dual suspension MTBs and they're every bit as
expensive, if not more so, than the road bikes.

But start off by changing your tyres and pedalling at higher cadences.
You might find your MTB is rather better suited to the job in hand than
you thought. It still leaves the option of changing bike, and higher
cadences will benefit you on any bike and the slicks on the MTB will
make it better for stuff where the road bike is hopeless, like getting a
heavy load of shopping home.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

in message <[email hidden]>,

lifeisgood (') said:

Dear all,

I apologise if this is too much of a newbie post...

I currently commute through London on an old £150 Halfords mountain
bike thing. The top front gear is something like 40 teeth.
I am almost constantly in the top few gears except for some hills, and
believe that I could get some extra speed by going for a "proper" road
bike (reduced tire friction, higher gearing ratios first time i will
use cleats etc), so I am in the market this week.

All sounds very sensible.

Quoted message said:

However I am concerned about 3 things

Is a drop handle bar better or worse than the hybrid-style flat handle
bar for commuting? (safety terms mostly - seeing oncoming lunatics
etc)

Depends. For shorter journeys in congested traffic straight bars are
probably better. For longer journeys in freely flowing traffic drops
will be better. Drops give you significantly better aerodynamics but
some loss of low speed control.

Quoted message said:

It seems that Specialized, Marin, Giant are the main manufacturers
these days, and their road bikes seem pricier than the MTBs. Is this
true or are there secret, amazingly cheap road bikes that only the
initiated can find?

Broadly, no. Also look at Claud Butler and Dawes. The road bikes are not
pricier than real MTBs, they're a lot cheaper; but any decent bike is
more expensive than the things sold as 'MTBs' to the gullible. You
should be able to get a reasonable hybrid for £300, but you tend to get
what you pay for and more money will get you a nicer bike.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Hobbit ringleader gives Sauron One in the Eye.

Peter Clinch said:

Quoted message said:

Is a drop handle bar better or worse than the hybrid-style flat handle
bar for commuting? (safety terms mostly - seeing oncoming lunatics
etc)

Bit of a non-issue, frankly. The main point of drops is to give more
positions, not /just/ getting your head down. Ride on the hoods and
you'll have a better view.

Or just raise the height of the bar. I ride to work on a road bike with
drops and haven't had any problems with seeing oncoming traffic etc. I
use the same bike for long distance rides at weekends when the
variation in hand positions becomes more important.

Thanks.

On the point of cadence, I think I have fairly high cadence, but I am
almost certainly wrong. is there an accepted way of measuring cadence
(other than the dubious counting where I will only count when i am
concentrating). ie some clever mechanical or electrical device that
counts my pedal revolutions?

As for the roads there are some stretches near arsenal and around
regents park that are mostly traffic free, so there is a good for miles
of opportunity for heads down.

lifeisgood said:

I currently commute through London on an old £150 Halfords mountain
bike thing.

Nice and theft-resistant ;-)

Quoted message said:

Is a drop handle bar better or worse than the hybrid-style flat handle
bar for commuting? (safety terms mostly - seeing oncoming lunatics
etc)

They're no more dangerous on any road but whether you like them or not comes
down to personal preference, and experience -- a lot of time and careful
adjustment can be required to get comfortable. The bars can always be
raised and brought nearer, if you like, by changing the stem. The bike will
still be faster than any other type of bike with the same riding position.

If owning just one commuter bike then it's most sensible to have one that
can take mudguards and a rack. So how about having a good road bike for
fair-weather commuting plus recreational/fitness rides*, and doing up your
old MTB (or getting another, or tourer, perhaps second hand) for bad weather
and when you need to carry extra luggage?

* They are superb for this, and you'll ride further as well as faster.

~PB

You can get higher end cycle computers which read cadence, but since
you're not training for the tour de France, the best thing to do is
count for 15 seconds and multiply by four. Even more rough-and-ready
would be to look at the seconds on your computer or watch for a few
seconds and see if your cadence is more or less than once per second.
When there's no traffic about, of course! ;-)

Quoted message said:

From experience, I would say use flat bars in London. There's a lot of

stop-start, you have slightly better control and visibility, and the
wind is tempered by the buildings. Most riders with drop spend a lot of
time riding on the hoods anyway. Having said that, I love using drops
when out of town, and into a strong headwind they're virtually
essential.

Also, be aware that a "proper road bike" may not be tough enough for
riding in London - you may be better off with something towards
"touring" style, ie with more spokes in the wheels.

Quoted message said:

I apologise if this is too much of a newbie post...

Not been here long myself

Quoted message said:

I currently commute through London on an old £150 Halfords mountain

bike thing.

I've recently got a new bike to replace my 12-year old for my London commute

Quoted message said:

The top front gear is something like 40 teeth.

That is quite small, I assume the wheels are the smaller mountain bike size
too.

Quoted message said:

I am almost constantly in the top few gears except for some hills, and
believe that I could get some extra speed by going for a "proper" road
bike (reduced tire friction, higher gearing ratios first time i will
use cleats etc), so I am in the market this week.

There's a continuum of bike styles from "Mountain" to "Road Racer" where the
(supplied) tyres get thinner and slicker and so forth. For commuting it is
up to you to choose the compromise that suits you best. "Hybrids" vary from
mountain bikes with thinner wheels to road bikes with flat bars.
I'd certainly recommend cleats and skinny-ish slick-ish tyres, but get a
rack and let the bike take the weight of your gear rather than getting
aching shoulders and a sweaty back.

Quoted message said:

Is a drop handle bar better or worse than the hybrid-style flat handle

bar for commuting?

I feel more in control with a flat bar but I've not really given drops a
chance for years. I'd suggest you test ride or borrow a bike with drops and
see how they feel to you.

Quoted message said:

It seems that Specialized, Marin, Giant are the main manufacturers
these days, and their road bikes seem pricier than the MTBs. Is this
true or are there secret, amazingly cheap road bikes that only the
initiated can find?

If you find it then let me know please! Otherwise there are loads of
manufacturers out there, it depends on how far you are prepared to cast your
net. However, the most important thing is to try before you buy which
effectively limits your choice to the shops near you, but there's plenty in
London. Pick out a few different models in your price range and arrange a
few test rides in your luchtimes. It'll help you decide what you want much
better than the brochures.

lifeisgood said:

On the point of cadence, I think I have fairly high cadence, but I am
almost certainly wrong. is there an accepted way of measuring cadence
(other than the dubious counting where I will only count when i am
concentrating). ie some clever mechanical or electrical device that
counts my pedal revolutions?

Some cycle computers have a direct cadence measurement function, but not
all. Otherwise the best way is to enlist a couple of friends with at
least one (normal, just speed measure) cycle computer between them.

Pal with speedo sets off and sets himself at a constant speed. 15 km/h
is fine for this as you're not busting a gut and so it's easy to stick
to. Having just one thing to concentrate on other than the local
traffic this isn't too dodgy at all.
You set off behind pal #1 and use him as a pace, match it and stick to
it, you're not racing but measuring.
Pal #2 is the timekeeper. S/he calls "start" and you start counting
every time one pedal goes past top or bottom of stroke (whatever you
find easiest). Keep going until the timekeeper calls a halt 15, 20 or
30 seconds later (again, only doing one extra thing isn't too hard),
multiply your number by 4, 3 or 2 accordingly and you'll have an idea of
a typical cadence at that speed.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this number is much lower than you
think it will be in advance! Next job, keeping the pace setter in place
at the same speed, drop a gear or two and see what the new number is.
When you get your cadence to around 80+, that's the sort of spinning
rate to aim for /all of the time/ you're not coasting.

We played this game recently when I was getting cycle leader training.
One chap on an MTB who declared exactly the same problem as you have
found that he needed to be several gears under his usual selection for a
typical situation to get the cadence up to 80+. When I got my cadence
up it wasn't from a need caused by lack of higher gears, but a need
caused by troubling knees and running out of leg steam as distances
started going up into many miles, and it has improved pretty well all of
my cycling. And it'll still help you even if you do gear up, either by
just changing the chainwheels or the whole bike.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

iakobski said:

Also, be aware that a "proper road bike" may not be tough enough for
riding in London - you may be better off with something towards
"touring" style, ie with more spokes in the wheels.

A road bike will be plenty tough enough if the wheels are decent -- I know
not all are, though.

~PB

On 26 Sep 2005 06:59:00 -0700, "dkahn400" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

iakobski said:

You can get higher end cycle computers which read cadence, but since
you're not training for the tour de France, the best thing to do is
count for 15 seconds and multiply by four. Even more rough-and-ready
would be to look at the seconds on your computer or watch for a few
seconds and see if your cadence is more or less than once per
second.

The cheapest cycle computer will tell you your speed at any given
moment. If you know which gear you're in you can work out your cadence
from that, as long as you were pedalling at the time and not
freewheeling. For most of us this would be a pencil and paper or Excel
job for when we get home.

Or work out the speed you're doing at, say, 80 and 90 rpm in various
gears, print it out and tape it to your handlebars.

You can also do some kind of hack by setting the wheel circumference
to xxxxx, such that the speed read out numbers _are_ the cadence,
divided by 10.

Tim

Pete Biggs said:

A road bike will be plenty tough enough if the wheels are decent -- I know
not all are, though.

Though there's nothing stopping you making sure you have good strong
wheels on your good racing frame, of course!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Pete Biggs said:

A road bike will be plenty tough enough if the wheels are decent --
I know not all are, though.

Though there's nothing stopping you making sure you have good strong
wheels on your good racing frame, of course!

Agreed (is wot I do). It is extra expense or trouble, though. I do feel
sorry for the newbie who won't know the difference or may not use a bike
shop that knows either! :-(

~PB

POHB said:

I feel more in control with a flat bar but I've not really given
drops a chance for years. I'd suggest you test ride or borrow a
bike with drops and see how they feel to you.

You may have more precise control with straight bars, but drops will
usually be narrower which is generally a Good Thing (TM) in traffic.
The very wide straight bars that seem to be fashionable at the moment,
while they may be excellent for off-road riding, are not IMV suitable
for riding in traffic.

--
Dave...

dkahn400 said:

POHB said:

I feel more in control with a flat bar but I've not really given
drops a chance for years. I'd suggest you test ride or borrow a
bike with drops and see how they feel to you.

You may have more precise control with straight bars, but drops will
usually be narrower which is generally a Good Thing (TM) in traffic.
The very wide straight bars that seem to be fashionable at the moment,
while they may be excellent for off-road riding, are not IMV suitable
for riding in traffic.

Actually IME the wheel size make a much bigger difference in traffic
which is why small wheelers like the Brompton are so much better than a
big wheeler.

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

On 26 Sep 2005 06:45:42 -0700, "iakobski" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Also, be aware that a "proper road bike" may not be tough enough for
riding in London - you may be better off with something towards
"touring" style, ie with more spokes in the wheels.

That's what I went for. I always used a rigid Marin with slicks, but
now have a Raven Tour. It is tough, gets reasonable speeds, and has
an upright position.

Peter Clinch said:

As above, higher gear ratios aren't /necessarily/ a good thing. But
for a lot less than the cost of a new bike you can just fit a bigger
chainwheel... Similarly. nothing to stop you using cleats on an
MTB, many do: just fit "clipless pedals", get some suitable shoes
and off you go.

What sort of distance would I need to be doing for it to be worth
changing to clipless pedals? I'm doing 3 miles or so each way to work
(sometimes stop off at a shop to pick something up on the way etc.)
and I'm riding a rigid mtb with slicks and clips/straps. Would it be
worth the trouble for me?

I'm guessing it's gonna cost me 75-100 quid to try this out. How
better could I spend this money?

Chris
--
Chris Eilbeck
MARS Flight Crew http://www.mars.org.uk/
UKRA #1108 Level 2 UYB
Tripoli UK Member #9527 LSMR

Chris Eilbeck said:

What sort of distance would I need to be doing for it to be worth
changing to clipless pedals? I'm doing 3 miles or so each way to work
(sometimes stop off at a shop to pick something up on the way etc.)
and I'm riding a rigid mtb with slicks and clips/straps. Would it be
worth the trouble for me?

Maybe not for the better efficiency for that distance, but worth it for the
better comfort and speed of getting your foot in.

Quoted message said:

I'm guessing it's gonna cost me 75-100 quid to try this out.

52. £22 on pedals (Shimano M520) and 30 quid on shoes.

Quoted message said:

How better could I spend this money?

Perhaps some other cycling clothing or accessories if lacking.

~PB