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Mandoline or Knife?

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
14 March 2005
Last activity
15 June 2005
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sarah
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  1. Katra said:

    I finally have a pic uploaded to webspace:

    http://home.centurytel.net/Katraslink/RotaryGrater.jpg

    OT: I looked at the picture, and thought I'd back up the URL to see if
    I could find the starting page for your site. I ended up with just a
    directory of JPG's, and no html, but I saw some beautiful art work
    there. Do you do those yourself? They are fantastic! The first one
    I saw was the sunrise. What are they - massaged digital photos,
    graphic-art type stuff or what?

    --
    The Doc says my brain waves closely match those of a crazed ferret.
    At least now I have an excuse.

  2. Katra said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Sheldon said:
    gman said:

    On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 08:01:07 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    >In article <[email hidden]>,
    >Katra <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I looked and looked and could NOT find a picture of my rotary
    >>grater/slicer... but I like it better for speed cutting or course
    >>grating (or fine grating since it has 6 different barrels) pretty much
    >>any veggie!
    >
    >(snip)
    >
    >>Anyone know what this device might be called? I googled for "rotary
    >>slicer" and "rotary grater" but gave up after about 4 pages of each. :-P
    >
    >Sounds like a Mouli grater. Did you put that (Mouli) into the search?

    Sounds like a food mill, though never actually used one, just saw it
    online.

    Two very different tools. Food mills don't grate, they process food by
    pressing it through various sized holes... graters process food by
    teasing/shredding/tearing/abrading.... rotary graters employ variously
    configured barrels from course to fine and some slice at various
    thicknesses. Mouli is the name of a company, they make food mills and
    other kitchen gadgetry, they make a rotary grater too. There are tons
    of hits for <rotary grater>, from many manufacturers, OXO seems to be
    popular, even found pictures of a Mouli rotary grater... someone
    doesn't know how to search, or didn't really.

    Sheldon

    I did a lot of searching Sheldong sweetie... ;-)

    And I did not find anything REMOTELY like this!

    Most "rotary graters" turned up little bitty cheap assed hand tools made
    with a plastic barrel that did not clamp to the counter.

    I finally have a pic uploaded to webspace:

    http://home.centurytel.net/Katraslink/RotaryGrater.jpg

    It ain't no Mouli grater! Mouli graters don't clamp to the counter and
    are way too tiny to do any real work. I can do whole carrots, onions,
    spuds, cabbage quarters, etc. in this thing. A lousy Mouli is only good
    for cheese as far as I can tell!

    So, what is it officially called now and do they make them anymore?
    This tool is very old and I love the thing! I generally leave it out as
    it's a huge time saver in the mornings when I do most of my cooking
    before I go to work for swing shifts. About the only thing it won't
    slice is meat and any fresh herbs still have to be minced by hand. So
    does garlic and fresh ginger root...

    Thinking about switching to night shifts. ;-)

    Maybe.

    I've seen those before, but I don't know where you'd find one -- maybe
    on eBay. The food processor attachment for a KitchenAid mixer looks
    just like that (with a plastic housing, I think) and attaches to the
    power take-off on the front of the mixer. I always thought they would
    be great for making a *lot* of coleslaw or sauerkraut, etc. because you
    wouldn't have to keep emptying the bowl like with a Cuisinart.

    Bob

  3. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>> Anyone know what this device might be called? I googled for "rotary
    >>> slicer" and "rotary grater" but gave up after about 4 pages of
    >>> each. :-P

    http://home.centurytel.net/Katraslink/RotaryGrater.jpg

    So, what is it officially called now and do they make them anymore?
    This tool is very old and I love the thing! I generally leave it out
    as it's a huge time saver in the mornings when I do most of my cooking
    before I go to work for swing shifts. About the only thing it won't
    slice is meat and any fresh herbs still have to be minced by hand. So
    does garlic and fresh ginger root...

    I've seen those before, but I don't know where you'd find one -- maybe
    on eBay. The food processor attachment for a KitchenAid mixer looks
    just like that (with a plastic housing, I think) and attaches to the
    power take-off on the front of the mixer. I always thought they would
    be great for making a *lot* of coleslaw or sauerkraut, etc. because you
    wouldn't have to keep emptying the bowl like with a Cuisinart.

    Bob

    I found one on eBay, with little suction cup feet rather than a clamp:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4387008156

    It looks new, maybe you can gleen enough info from the ad to track down
    the manufacturer. HTH :-)

    Best regards,
    Bob

  4. zxcvbob said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>> Anyone know what this device might be called? I googled for "rotary
    >>>> slicer" and "rotary grater" but gave up after about 4 pages of
    >>>> each. :-P

    http://home.centurytel.net/Katraslink/RotaryGrater.jpg

    So, what is it officially called now and do they make them anymore?
    This tool is very old and I love the thing! I generally leave it out
    as it's a huge time saver in the mornings when I do most of my cooking
    before I go to work for swing shifts. About the only thing it won't
    slice is meat and any fresh herbs still have to be minced by hand. So
    does garlic and fresh ginger root...

    I've seen those before, but I don't know where you'd find one -- maybe
    on eBay. The food processor attachment for a KitchenAid mixer looks
    just like that (with a plastic housing, I think) and attaches to the
    power take-off on the front of the mixer. I always thought they would
    be great for making a *lot* of coleslaw or sauerkraut, etc. because you
    wouldn't have to keep emptying the bowl like with a Cuisinart.

    Bob

    I found one on eBay, with little suction cup feet rather than a clamp:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4387008156

    It looks new, maybe you can gleen enough info from the ad to track down
    the manufacturer. HTH :-)

    Plainly and BOLDLY says "Health Craft".

    Sheldon

  5. zxcvbob provided:

    Quoted message said:

    I found one on eBay, with little suction cup feet rather than a clamp:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4387008156

    It looks new, maybe you can gleen enough info from the ad to track down
    the manufacturer. HTH :-)

    The manufacturer of that grater apparently no longer makes the tripod stand,
    their web site shows only a model with a single big suction cup. But the
    item on eBay WITH the tripod stand looks just like the one my mother had
    (except I'm pretty sure hers didn't have the "Health Craft" logo on it). I
    believe it was given to her as a wedding present in 1948. (Now I'm curious
    as to how old the item on eBay is.)

    Bob

  6. Katra, the brand you have may no longer be in production. I know of two that
    are curently made, the first is King Cutter:

    http://tinyurl.com/9vwza

    The second is Saladmaster

    http://tinyurl.com/bdd7o

    HTH

    --
    Wayne Boatwright *¿*
    ____________________________________________

    Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
    Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974

  7. Katra wrote on 12 Jun 2005 in rec.food.cooking

    Quoted message said:

    So, what is it officially called now and do they make them
    anymore? This tool is very old and I love the thing! I generally
    leave it out as it's a huge time saver in the mornings when I do
    most of my cooking before I go to work for swing shifts. About the
    only thing it won't slice is meat and any fresh herbs still have
    to be minced by hand. So does garlic and fresh ginger root...

    Thinking about switching to night shifts. ;-)

    Maybe.

    http://www.healthcraft.com/ modernized version.

    --
    It's not a question of where he grips it!
    It's a simple question of weight ratios!

    A five ounce bird could not carry a one pound coconut.

    Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

  8. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Katra said:

    Most "rotary graters" turned up little bitty cheap assed hand tools made
    with a plastic barrel that did not clamp to the counter.

    I finally have a pic uploaded to webspace:

    http://home.centurytel.net/Katraslink/RotaryGrater.jpg

    Quoted message said:

    So, what is it officially called now and do they make them anymore?

    Looks like the Kitchen-Aid Food Processor attachment for a KA mixer. I
    used to have it. Now they call it a slicer shredder. The second link
    shows how it attaches to the front of a KA stand mixer.
    http://store.yahoo.com/buyitnow64/kiaidroslsha.html
    http://www.goldaskitchen.com/merchant.ihtml?id=123&pid=4958&step=4
    --
    -Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 6/6/05 Sam I Am!
    June 25, 1945: Me and Carly Simon. I wonder if she makes jam.
    (It's not too early to shop -- good chocolate and cheap gin.
    Or is it cheap chocolate and good gin? I never
    remember. No jam--coal to Newcastle and all that. "-)

  9. Wayne Boatwright said:

    Katra, the brand you have may no longer be in production. I know of two that
    are curently made, the first is King Cutter:

    http://tinyurl.com/9vwza

    We had one of these in one of the restaurants I bought back a couple
    decades ago. It had been a mama-papa operation with everything made from
    scratch, and usually by hand. We mechanized these processes to suit our
    increased business with essentially the same thing mounted on our Hobart
    mixers, but still did everything from scratch.

    The units are heavy-duty, tough and durable.

    Quoted message said:

    The second is Saladmaster

    http://tinyurl.com/bdd7o

    This is more designed for home use and not as substantially built. For
    lighter-duty use.

    Pastorio

  10. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Gabby said:

    "Katra" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I finally have a pic uploaded to webspace:

    http://home.centurytel.net/Katraslink/RotaryGrater.jpg

    Well, I don't know what it's called but it took me back in time to Mom's
    pickle making days. Our neighbour owned one of these and Mom put it to good
    use each time she made her bread and butter pickles.

    Gabby

    It is a cool tool! :-)
    --
    Om.

    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

  11. In article <[email hidden]>,

    (AlleyGator) said:
    Katra said:

    I finally have a pic uploaded to webspace:

    http://home.centurytel.net/Katraslink/RotaryGrater.jpg

    OT: I looked at the picture, and thought I'd back up the URL to see if
    I could find the starting page for your site. I ended up with just a
    directory of JPG's, and no html, but I saw some beautiful art work
    there. Do you do those yourself? They are fantastic! The first one
    I saw was the sunrise. What are they - massaged digital photos,
    graphic-art type stuff or what?

    Why thank you! :-)

    I take it the one you are commenting on was "Dawn Miracle"?

    http://home.centurytel.net/Katraslink/DawnMiracle.jpg

    That was a digital photo that I took at dawn on the way home from work
    one day, then tweaked it using photoshop filters and multiple overlays.

    The next one in line was "Dragon dreams" and the background started out
    as an orchid, heavily filtered then I overlayed the dragon and faded it
    in, then gave it it's final effects with a starscape filter and
    photoshops lens flare filter.

    Digital art is one of my many hobbies. <lol>

    Most of the artwork I do is from digital photos with photoshop CS-8.0
    and a couple of added aftermarket filter sets.
    It's a lot of fun and I am on a binaries art list on usenet as well.

    I have quite a bit more but cannot put it all there. That index is used
    primarily for my ebay inventory, and I only rent 10 megs as Century
    charges $1.00 per month per MEG and won't compromise and sell me a large
    block. As you know, that's assinine for webspace so I'm looking to
    purchase a larger block from another server, then put up a gallery.

    Thank you for looking! You just made my day! :-)

    --
    K.

    Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

    There is no need to change the world. All we have to do is toilet train the world and we'll never have to change it again. -- Swami Beyondanada

    Quoted message said:

    ,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

    http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=katra

  12. In article <[email hidden]>,

    zxcvbob said:
    Katra said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:

    http://home.centurytel.net/Katraslink/RotaryGrater.jpg

    I've seen those before, but I don't know where you'd find one -- maybe
    on eBay. The food processor attachment for a KitchenAid mixer looks
    just like that (with a plastic housing, I think) and attaches to the
    power take-off on the front of the mixer. I always thought they would
    be great for making a *lot* of coleslaw or sauerkraut, etc. because you
    wouldn't have to keep emptying the bowl like with a Cuisinart.

    Bob

    Wow. I did not know that kitchenaid had a food processor attachment!
    I'll have to check that out and send one to my sister for her birthday.
    I bought them a kitchenaid as a wedding gift!

    Since I just cook for two people, it'd be silly to get one for mine. :-)

    Thanks for the update!
    --
    K.

    Sprout the MungBean to reply

    "I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
    see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

  13. Katra said:
    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Sheldon said:

    gman wrote:
    > On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 08:01:07 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
    > <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >
    >> In article
    >> <[email hidden]>, Katra
    >> <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >>
    >>> I looked and looked and could NOT find a picture of my rotary
    >>> grater/slicer... but I like it better for speed cutting or course
    >>> grating (or fine grating since it has 6 different barrels)
    >>> pretty much any veggie!
    >> (snip)
    >>> Anyone know what this device might be called? I googled for
    >>> "rotary slicer" and "rotary grater" but gave up after about 4
    >>> pages of each. :-P
    >>
    >> Sounds like a Mouli grater. Did you put that (Mouli) into the
    >> search?
    >
    > Sounds like a food mill, though never actually used one, just saw
    > it online.

    Two very different tools. Food mills don't grate, they process food
    by pressing it through various sized holes... graters process food
    by teasing/shredding/tearing/abrading.... rotary graters employ
    variously configured barrels from course to fine and some slice at
    various thicknesses. Mouli is the name of a company, they make
    food mills and other kitchen gadgetry, they make a rotary grater
    too. There are tons of hits for <rotary grater>, from many
    manufacturers, OXO seems to be popular, even found pictures of a
    Mouli rotary grater... someone doesn't know how to search, or
    didn't really.

    Sheldon

    I did a lot of searching Sheldong sweetie... ;-)

    And I did not find anything REMOTELY like this!

    Most "rotary graters" turned up little bitty cheap assed hand tools
    made
    with a plastic barrel that did not clamp to the counter.

    I finally have a pic uploaded to webspace:

    http://home.centurytel.net/Katraslink/RotaryGrater.jpg

    It ain't no Mouli grater! Mouli graters don't clamp to the counter
    and
    are way too tiny to do any real work. I can do whole carrots, onions,
    spuds, cabbage quarters, etc. in this thing. A lousy Mouli is only
    good
    for cheese as far as I can tell!

    So, what is it officially called now and do they make them anymore?

    You wouldn't be talking about a food mill?

    Debbie

  14. In article <[email hidden]>,

    zxcvbob said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>> Anyone know what this device might be called? I googled for "rotary
    >>>> slicer" and "rotary grater" but gave up after about 4 pages of
    >>>> each. :-P

    http://home.centurytel.net/Katraslink/RotaryGrater.jpg

    So, what is it officially called now and do they make them anymore?
    This tool is very old and I love the thing! I generally leave it out
    as it's a huge time saver in the mornings when I do most of my cooking
    before I go to work for swing shifts. About the only thing it won't
    slice is meat and any fresh herbs still have to be minced by hand. So
    does garlic and fresh ginger root...

    I've seen those before, but I don't know where you'd find one -- maybe
    on eBay. The food processor attachment for a KitchenAid mixer looks
    just like that (with a plastic housing, I think) and attaches to the
    power take-off on the front of the mixer. I always thought they would
    be great for making a *lot* of coleslaw or sauerkraut, etc. because you
    wouldn't have to keep emptying the bowl like with a Cuisinart.

    Bob

    I found one on eBay, with little suction cup feet rather than a clamp:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4387008156

    It looks new, maybe you can gleen enough info from the ad to track down
    the manufacturer. HTH :-)

    Best regards,
    Bob

    Hah! Found it, thanks!
    But still only on ebay... <lol>

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4387071748

    It's a King Cutter Saladmaster!
    Doing a search for rotary food slicers worked rather than graters.
    This DOES have a slicing barrel.

    Cheers! :-)
    --
    K.

    Sprout the MungBean to reply

    "I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
    see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

  15. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Sheldon said:
    zxcvbob said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>>>> Anyone know what this device might be called? I googled for "rotary
    >>>>> slicer" and "rotary grater" but gave up after about 4 pages of
    >>>>> each. :-P
    >
    > http://home.centurytel.net/Katraslink/RotaryGrater.jpg
    >
    >
    > So, what is it officially called now and do they make them anymore?
    > This tool is very old and I love the thing! I generally leave it out
    > as it's a huge time saver in the mornings when I do most of my cooking
    > before I go to work for swing shifts. About the only thing it won't
    > slice is meat and any fresh herbs still have to be minced by hand. So
    > does garlic and fresh ginger root...
    >

    I've seen those before, but I don't know where you'd find one -- maybe
    on eBay. The food processor attachment for a KitchenAid mixer looks
    just like that (with a plastic housing, I think) and attaches to the
    power take-off on the front of the mixer. I always thought they would
    be great for making a *lot* of coleslaw or sauerkraut, etc. because you
    wouldn't have to keep emptying the bowl like with a Cuisinart.

    Bob

    I found one on eBay, with little suction cup feet rather than a clamp:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4387008156

    It looks new, maybe you can gleen enough info from the ad to track down
    the manufacturer. HTH :-)

    Plainly and BOLDLY says "Health Craft".

    Sheldon

    I looked at their website:

    http://www.healthcraft.com/

    Looks like they still make theirs, but it does not clamp to the counter.
    It attaches by suction.

    Not sure I'd like that as well! :-)
    --
    K.

    Sprout the MungBean to reply

    "I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
    see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

  16. Monsur Fromage du Pollet said:
    Quoted message said:

    Katra wrote on 12 Jun 2005 in rec.food.cooking

    Quoted message said:

    So, what is it officially called now and do they make them
    anymore? >>>

    http://www.healthcraft.com/ modernized version.

    That looks more like a modern version of what I called a food mill. It
    clamped to the table.. certainly wasn't as pretty as this one, or the
    picture that Katra posted. However in the short video clip it had the same
    action as mine. Mine was very old, and very heavy (If my memory isn't
    playing tricks on me I am thinking it was made of cast iron). Not made by
    Health Craft. Gave it away years ago when I knew I wouldn't be doing the
    pickling, preserve things as much as I used to.

    Debbie

  17. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Bob' virtualgoth@die_spammer.biz said:

    zxcvbob provided:

    Quoted message said:

    I found one on eBay, with little suction cup feet rather than a clamp:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4387008156

    It looks new, maybe you can gleen enough info from the ad to track down
    the manufacturer. HTH :-)

    The manufacturer of that grater apparently no longer makes the tripod stand,
    their web site shows only a model with a single big suction cup. But the
    item on eBay WITH the tripod stand looks just like the one my mother had
    (except I'm pretty sure hers didn't have the "Health Craft" logo on it). I
    believe it was given to her as a wedding present in 1948. (Now I'm curious
    as to how old the item on eBay is.)

    Bob

    Are there any websites on Vintage food slicers? ;-)

    I do have some vintage stuff. one is a twim bladed pastry cutter that
    belonged to my Great Grandmother. It's well over 100 years old now and
    still in excellent condition! Many of my kitchen knives are also over 40
    years old and belonged to my parents. 'course dad is still here (thank
    the gods).

    It's amazing just how long kitchen items last if you take good care of
    them! I consider most cooking purchases to be a lifetime investment, so
    don't mind paying a little extra for something good as long as it's not
    overpriced "hype". I don't like paying for a name if it does not mean
    anything!

    I'll make exceptions for "griswold" tho'. <lol>

  18. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Monsur Fromage du Pollet said:

    Katra wrote on 12 Jun 2005 in rec.food.cooking

    Quoted message said:

    So, what is it officially called now and do they make them
    anymore? This tool is very old and I love the thing! I generally
    leave it out as it's a huge time saver in the mornings when I do
    most of my cooking before I go to work for swing shifts. About the
    only thing it won't slice is meat and any fresh herbs still have
    to be minced by hand. So does garlic and fresh ginger root...

    Thinking about switching to night shifts. ;-)

    Maybe.

    http://www.healthcraft.com/ modernized version.

    Yes, I saw that. Thanks! :-)

    It's a 5 barrel food slicer as opposed to a rotary grater.
    I was doing the wrong searches!

    Cheers!
    --
    K.

    Sprout the MungBean to reply

    "I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
    see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

  19. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Melba's Jammin said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Katra said:

    Most "rotary graters" turned up little bitty cheap assed hand tools made
    with a plastic barrel that did not clamp to the counter.

    I finally have a pic uploaded to webspace:

    http://home.centurytel.net/Katraslink/RotaryGrater.jpg

    Quoted message said:

    So, what is it officially called now and do they make them anymore?

    Looks like the Kitchen-Aid Food Processor attachment for a KA mixer. I
    used to have it. Now they call it a slicer shredder. The second link
    shows how it attaches to the front of a KA stand mixer.
    http://store.yahoo.com/buyitnow64/kiaidroslsha.html
    http://www.goldaskitchen.com/merchant.ihtml?id=123&pid=4958&step=4

    Mmm... I bookmarked that for a birthday gift for my sister, thanks!
    I don't do enough food prep to justify another kitchen aid attachment.
    ;-)

    Cheers!
    --
    K.

    Sprout the MungBean to reply

    "I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
    see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

  20. On Sun 12 Jun 2005 08:50:15a, Katra wrote in rec.food.cooking:

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Sheldon said:
    zxcvbob said:

    >>>>>> Anyone know what this device might be called? I googled for
    >>>>>> "rotary slicer" and "rotary grater" but gave up after about 4
    >>>>>> pages of each. :-P
    >>
    >> http://home.centurytel.net/Katraslink/RotaryGrater.jpg
    >>
    >>
    >> So, what is it officially called now and do they make them
    >> anymore? This tool is very old and I love the thing! I generally
    >> leave it out as it's a huge time saver in the mornings when I do
    >> most of my cooking before I go to work for swing shifts. About the
    >> only thing it won't slice is meat and any fresh herbs still have
    >> to be minced by hand. So does garlic and fresh ginger root...
    >>
    >
    >
    > I've seen those before, but I don't know where you'd find one --
    > maybe on eBay. The food processor attachment for a KitchenAid
    > mixer looks just like that (with a plastic housing, I think) and
    > attaches to the power take-off on the front of the mixer. I always
    > thought they would be great for making a *lot* of coleslaw or
    > sauerkraut, etc. because you wouldn't have to keep emptying the
    > bowl like with a Cuisinart.
    >
    > Bob

    I found one on eBay, with little suction cup feet rather than a
    clamp: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4387008156

    It looks new, maybe you can gleen enough info from the ad to track
    down the manufacturer. HTH :-)

    Plainly and BOLDLY says "Health Craft".

    Sheldon

    I looked at their website:

    http://www.healthcraft.com/

    Looks like they still make theirs, but it does not clamp to the counter.
    It attaches by suction.

    Not sure I'd like that as well! :-)

    As I posted in the original thread, King Cutter still makes theirs, and
    makes both clamp-on and suction feet models. King Cutter and Saladmaster
    are not related companies, but have a similar appliance.

    --
    Wayne Boatwright *¿*
    ____________________________________________

    Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
    Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974

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