Meal Replacement Wisdom Needed



pocketplayer

New Member
May 31, 2006
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Newbie...what's up? First, have enjoyed this forum and read a few hours worth of threads recently. Usually I don't start a new thread being new but the threads I searched here were a few years old (2003) so...

I have gone supplement research crazy...learned a lot, but what a maze to run through.
Quick bio:
43 male, 6' 230, muscular with a mid section, love to cycle and mountain bike, used to lift weights years ago as primary focus and cycle...now I cycle and lift light weights for resistance training. My cycling consists of 3-4 times a week for 60-90 min sessions. I want to increase with time, but I've been back at it for about a month after a two year layoff due to a work related injury. I have focused much on nutrition and diet bigtime, eating from a Best Foods list I put together. I feel confident about the types of food I'm eating and try to eat smaller meals, 4-5 a day and am learning timing tricks (pre & post workout meal, no eating three hours before bedtime, etc.) for fat loss. I want to trim to 210 as a realistic goal for this year. Also, consistency is my aim in my routine. I tend to be a sprinter personality and cycling helps me with endurance over time.

My question:
After 12 hours of research, I thought I needed a whey protein shake (talk about protein confusion...man), then I thought about it, what I really want is a meal replacement (to fill in the "other meals"), something to start my system in the morning, and a pre/post recovery meal with low calories and fat burning impact...with low sugar and cholesterol. A lot I know, but there are a zillion products out there...had to ask.

Is there a product out there? Or is there a really good supplement powder that I can add something like glutamin to for my resistance training days and pre workout? Many of the products I've seen have high calories and sugars or high cholesterol. For a whey protein, I tended toward the isolates for low fat & cholesterol, but they also have low carbs. I like the 4:1 ratio for recovery, but those products are loaded high in sugars. Again, my aim is fat loss and steady insulin levels.

Closest I've seen is Endurox R4 with:
270 cal, 54g carb, 13g protein, 1g fat, Vit C 470mg, Glutamine 430mg + minerals...but it has 40g of sugars. First ingredient listed is Dextrose :(

Accelerade seems basically the same as EnduroxR4 with 1/3 or 1/2 the percentages per serving when you compare them. So EnduroxR4 seems like it can be a pre and during supplement by taking 1/2 a serving and getting basically what Accelerade offers and then take an entire serving for post workout.


Current Supplements
Multi Vit
Omega 3
Frozen berries mixed in blender w/water and superfood Green Vibrance
Sometimes I juice my veggies (kale, cabbage, spinach, celery, radish, broccoli)in a blender adding a carrot for sweetness or coconut

Appreciate any thoughts.
 
If one of your goals is to lose weight you could try doing a ride shortly after you awake. DO NOT eat anything(drink a glass of water when you wake up and take one water only bottle with you and a BCAA supplement if your concerned about muscle breakdown) and limit your ride to 1 hr.(or stop and eat a 4/3:1 carb to protein meal after 1 hr). Warm up for the first 15-20 minutes than ride at about 60% of your max heart rate. In theory this is suppose to increase your use of fat as an energy source. I have a similar background to you(weight training and heavy physical labor at work). I'm older than you though, and I was able to drop my bodyfat from 14% to 10.5% by including this workout in my training regime last summer(2 out of 5 rides a week).
 
pocketplayer said:
Newbie...what's up? First, have enjoyed this forum and read a few hours worth of threads recently. Usually I don't start a new thread being new but the threads I searched here were a few years old (2003) so...

I have gone supplement research crazy...learned a lot, but what a maze to run through.
Quick bio:
43 male, 6' 230, muscular with a mid section, love to cycle and mountain bike, used to lift weights years ago as primary focus and cycle...now I cycle and lift light weights for resistance training. My cycling consists of 3-4 times a week for 60-90 min sessions. I want to increase with time, but I've been back at it for about a month after a two year layoff due to a work related injury. I have focused much on nutrition and diet bigtime, eating from a Best Foods list I put together. I feel confident about the types of food I'm eating and try to eat smaller meals, 4-5 a day and am learning timing tricks (pre & post workout meal, no eating three hours before bedtime, etc.) for fat loss. I want to trim to 210 as a realistic goal for this year. Also, consistency is my aim in my routine. I tend to be a sprinter personality and cycling helps me with endurance over time.

My question:
After 12 hours of research, I thought I needed a whey protein shake (talk about protein confusion...man), then I thought about it, what I really want is a meal replacement (to fill in the "other meals"), something to start my system in the morning, and a pre/post recovery meal with low calories and fat burning impact...with low sugar and cholesterol. A lot I know, but there are a zillion products out there...had to ask.

Is there a product out there? Or is there a really good supplement powder that I can add something like glutamin to for my resistance training days and pre workout? Many of the products I've seen have high calories and sugars or high cholesterol. For a whey protein, I tended toward the isolates for low fat & cholesterol, but they also have low carbs. I like the 4:1 ratio for recovery, but those products are loaded high in sugars. Again, my aim is fat loss and steady insulin levels.

Closest I've seen is Endurox R4 with:
270 cal, 54g carb, 13g protein, 1g fat, Vit C 470mg, Glutamine 430mg + minerals...but it has 40g of sugars. First ingredient listed is Dextrose :(

Accelerade seems basically the same as EnduroxR4 with 1/3 or 1/2 the percentages per serving when you compare them. So EnduroxR4 seems like it can be a pre and during supplement by taking 1/2 a serving and getting basically what Accelerade offers and then take an entire serving for post workout.


Current Supplements
Multi Vit
Omega 3
Frozen berries mixed in blender w/water and superfood Green Vibrance
Sometimes I juice my veggies (kale, cabbage, spinach, celery, radish, broccoli)in a blender adding a carrot for sweetness or coconut

Appreciate any thoughts.


So, modern research has shown a couple of things. First, keep up with Omega 3, but add in some flax seed oil to your diet. It will help. Second, before you sleep, then you will want to eat some cottage cheese maybe some frozen blueberries in there too. The casien in the cottage cheese will make sure that your muscles don't start to eat themselves. Compared to whey, casien will last inside the muscles the whole night. Keep the fat burning engines running and growing. Finally, after your workout, I highly recommend chocolate milk. I know that you want to stay away from the sugars, but you will want to throw all of that sugar and protein into your muscles for quicker recovery. I don't know the study that concluded the efficacy of chocolate milk, but it does work well for quicker recovery times and delaying the muscle loss that always happens. Furthermore, the calcium associated with the diary products that you eat will block the fat from getting into the midsection.

Hope this helps
 
Hey thanks...appreciate the thought. I made the mistake of going into a bodybuilding forum first and they could not get past my desire to lean up, offering only bulk up responses.

As for supplements, since my original post, I have come across a few I am about to purchase. Would love some experienced thinking on these, even if you haven't tried them, just in concept.

First, a whey protein;
Nitro-Gen Extreme
400% Better Nitrogen Retention!
I have spent the most time researching this type of product. What a mindblast! I selected this for the following reasons:
1. The Serving Size: 2.5 Scoops (72g)
2. The Calories are 278 per serving
3. Total Fat: 2g
4. Cholesterol: 0g
5. Total Carbohydrate: 5g 10%
6. Protein: 60 g

This is way too much protein for one serving, so I am going to take 1/2 the serving to cut the amounts by 50%. The price is very good ($27 for 3.3 lbs)
It is not the perfect 4:1 recovery ratio (carbs to proteins) but it's close if I eat carbs 45-hour after my post shake recovery. It also has no cholesterol which I need to watch.

For a pre and during cycling drink, I was thinking of;
Endurolytes Powder
This has 150 servings for the price over Champion Revenge which seems like a good product but has only 28 servings and costs a bit more.
I am cutting out coffee and planned on using the whey protein first thing in the morning to get things rolling metabolism wise if I don't cycle first thing. Then breakfast about 30 mins later. Cutting the whey seriving in half allows me to have this as an in-between meal (breakfast to lunch) without all the calories.


Just trying to get a good routine down...I'm a routine person so I put a lot of time developing one. It's a confidence thing with me.


I will add the cottage cheese before bed as well. Also have been planning on flaxseed or krill oil. Lastly, I still want to do my frozen berry drink I make up...can I have this with the whey protein powder?

Thanks again!



 
pocketplayer said:
Hey thanks...appreciate the thought. I made the mistake of going into a bodybuilding forum first and they could not get past my desire to lean up, offering only bulk up responses.

As for supplements, since my original post, I have come across a few I am about to purchase. Would love some experienced thinking on these, even if you haven't tried them, just in concept.

First, a whey protein;
Nitro-Gen Extreme
400% Better Nitrogen Retention!
I have spent the most time researching this type of product. What a mindblast! I selected this for the following reasons:
1. The Serving Size: 2.5 Scoops (72g)
2. The Calories are 278 per serving
3. Total Fat: 2g
4. Cholesterol: 0g
5. Total Carbohydrate: 5g 10%
6. Protein: 60 g

This is way too much protein for one serving, so I am going to take 1/2 the serving to cut the amounts by 50%. The price is very good ($27 for 3.3 lbs)
It is not the perfect 4:1 recovery ratio (carbs to proteins) but it's close if I eat carbs 45-hour after my post shake recovery. It also has no cholesterol which I need to watch.

For a pre and during cycling drink, I was thinking of;
Endurolytes Powder
This has 150 servings for the price over Champion Revenge which seems like a good product but has only 28 servings and costs a bit more.
I am cutting out coffee and planned on using the whey protein first thing in the morning to get things rolling metabolism wise if I don't cycle first thing. Then breakfast about 30 mins later. Cutting the whey seriving in half allows me to have this as an in-between meal (breakfast to lunch) without all the calories.


Just trying to get a good routine down...I'm a routine person so I put a lot of time developing one. It's a confidence thing with me.


I will add the cottage cheese before bed as well. Also have been planning on flaxseed or krill oil. Lastly, I still want to do my frozen berry drink I make up...can I have this with the whey protein powder?

Thanks again!



60g/servering is wayyyyy too much. I think that a normal fit person can handle about 45g per meal. Aim for about 1g to 1.2 g protein/day of body wieght. Second of all, don't base your info on the % DV. Personally, I think that its **** cause there are all sorts of different thermic effects from the food that you eat. Whey in the morning is a good idea. As far as a meal in between meals. Almonds. Lots studies show that they fight the fat build up. I would recommend a nice no fat smoothie in the morning with your whey. Good way to get really a good all around boost of energy. If you haven't heard of the Abs diet yet, then I would recommend it. It can really help your routine.

Furthermore, Take supplements as you think that you see fit. Some work and others are just marketing schemes. Whey protein is a good source of energy, but stay away from soy. Such a BS protein.

Hope this helps

P.S. I always put whey in my smoothies. (if the berry drink is what you want, then go for it) Protein is a key ingredient to losing weight.
 
Thanks!

Remember, I am going to or are planning on taking 1/2 that serving size which would be 30g of protein. It doubles my servings on the powder. Nobody said anything about the electrolye powder before and during rides. I just drink water...which is fine, but I used to use Emergen C many years ago, and it might be psychological, but I felt I rode better.

Funny story...my neighbor stopped by yesterday (around 30) and we talked nutrition and training. He went into bodybuilding mode and couldn't or wouldn't comprehend why I would want to look like a cyclist. I told him at 6' 230 I ain't trimming down to Lance anytime soon! I do an upper body workout as part of my resistance training--light with higher reps.

I will check out The Ab Diet. Right now, I am eating my starchy carbs before and after workouts...except when I eat out like tonight. I am not a calorie counter and don't want to be concerned when I go to a restaurant. Just me. I listen to those in the bodybuilding sites and these guys act like they are all posing for Mr America. I respect the drive...but I'm not 22 anymore. Priorities change...a lot. Great conditioning is my aim now...maybe living a little wiser and looking good for my age. I like training and the diet was the hard one...but it's getting there.

Appeciate the feedback!
 
Perhaps out of convenience you are looking for the ideal product that has the ratio for you needs, but it is very easy to make your mix to match the ratio for your own goals.

For instance I am in the process of leaning up for cycling as I used to compete as a bodybuilder.

The mix that I use during the week for short duration interval training along with the current weight training program contains a mix of these independent supplements as 2 post recovery drinks. One that I consume immediately following training and then another 2 hours later. For this program I do not need the excessive amounts of carbs like I do for long endurance rides. Just enough to recover for the next day. My body composition has been making a positive change for several weeks now.

The mix that I use for example is:
Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey gold standard = 40 grams
Universal Carbo Plus (maltodextrin) = 10 grams
Ultimate Nutrition MCT oil = 14 grams

That was only an example, but each person could easily formulate their own personal mixture by looking at several individual supplements and making a low cost drink. The cost of these items can be a lower cost than something that is marketed as some of the specialized meal replacement products.

Take a look at individual products for a mixture and compare to the cost of a specialized product.
 
Thanks...I hear what you're saying and have come along way since my first post.

The mixture balance you gave was close to what I'm going to use. Rather than but two seperate products--whey & carbo, I am getting the balanced whey 3:1 protein to carbs that is isolate with no cholesterol as one product and an electrolyte drink mix before and during.

I'll try these until I run out and evaluate. I do like the idea of mixing my frozen fruit into the whey and looked up many whey recipes. I'm even going to make my own protein bars nad jerky soon.

Appreciate the replys!
 
My wife made some cookies a couple of weeks ago from a whey protein recipe she found in a book. For being a healthy treat they were pretty good.

During the summer we typically switch to vanilla or natural flavored whey so that we can mix in fruit to make smoothies. Nice blend of a high quality protein and natural fruits that make a good liquid meal between the solid food meals.

I'll see if I can get my wife to release her recipe for flax seed bars.
 
You might want to look at this Meal Replacement, as it has only the natural-occuring sugar (amount is like eating an apple) but it's a complete balanced meal, great to weight loss but athletes use it for pre and post fuelling. www.triathlonsportnutrition.com (look under sports nutrition products and read through the Meal Replacement write-up. I like half a shake just before cycling 90 minutes (for energy) then a full-serviging size shake with frozen blueberries, strawberries after my ride. There is also Herbalifeline which is one of the top Omega products out there as far as quality goes. I use the products for triathlon training more but they're really great. All the best.

pocketplayer said:
Newbie...what's up? First, have enjoyed this forum and read a few hours worth of threads recently. Usually I don't start a new thread being new but the threads I searched here were a few years old (2003) so...

I have gone supplement research crazy...learned a lot, but what a maze to run through.
Quick bio:
43 male, 6' 230, muscular with a mid section, love to cycle and mountain bike, used to lift weights years ago as primary focus and cycle...now I cycle and lift light weights for resistance training. My cycling consists of 3-4 times a week for 60-90 min sessions. I want to increase with time, but I've been back at it for about a month after a two year layoff due to a work related injury. I have focused much on nutrition and diet bigtime, eating from a Best Foods list I put together. I feel confident about the types of food I'm eating and try to eat smaller meals, 4-5 a day and am learning timing tricks (pre & post workout meal, no eating three hours before bedtime, etc.) for fat loss. I want to trim to 210 as a realistic goal for this year. Also, consistency is my aim in my routine. I tend to be a sprinter personality and cycling helps me with endurance over time.

My question:
After 12 hours of research, I thought I needed a whey protein shake (talk about protein confusion...man), then I thought about it, what I really want is a meal replacement (to fill in the "other meals"), something to start my system in the morning, and a pre/post recovery meal with low calories and fat burning impact...with low sugar and cholesterol. A lot I know, but there are a zillion products out there...had to ask.

Is there a product out there? Or is there a really good supplement powder that I can add something like glutamin to for my resistance training days and pre workout? Many of the products I've seen have high calories and sugars or high cholesterol. For a whey protein, I tended toward the isolates for low fat & cholesterol, but they also have low carbs. I like the 4:1 ratio for recovery, but those products are loaded high in sugars. Again, my aim is fat loss and steady insulin levels.

Closest I've seen is Endurox R4 with:
270 cal, 54g carb, 13g protein, 1g fat, Vit C 470mg, Glutamine 430mg + minerals...but it has 40g of sugars. First ingredient listed is Dextrose :(

Accelerade seems basically the same as EnduroxR4 with 1/3 or 1/2 the percentages per serving when you compare them. So EnduroxR4 seems like it can be a pre and during supplement by taking 1/2 a serving and getting basically what Accelerade offers and then take an entire serving for post workout.


Current Supplements
Multi Vit
Omega 3
Frozen berries mixed in blender w/water and superfood Green Vibrance
Sometimes I juice my veggies (kale, cabbage, spinach, celery, radish, broccoli)in a blender adding a carrot for sweetness or coconut

Appreciate any thoughts.
 
GNC Mega MRP Extreme. 50 plus grams protein, also luecine and many other aminos. I lost 45 pounds just by having this shake for breakfast, a tuna sandwich for lunch and huge dinner after ride. IF you really want to loose weight fast and safe. Tuna fish for breakfast, lunch and after ride eat a decent dinner. Eat slow and easy until you are full. Then riding in the morning at lower intensity with light food will help. Good luck
 
That stuff has 120mg of cholesterol (40%)! Way too much for me...but thanks!

I bought https://www.bodybuilding.com/store/exl/nitro.html which I will take 1/2 serving and save a lot of money...and I like all the other nutrients. I have also built a system of 4-6 smaller meals daily of chix breast, salmon and beef...with eggs as well. I've been on this for three weeks now. The supplements are just that, supplements to my diet (which I am always tweeking). I know myself, it's very hard for me to get radical diet wise (tuna every day for breakfast or another system that worked for another)...I need variety and am not looking for a quick loss system...tho it is tempting to desire that.

Thanks for the advice! I am dogsitting now and walking a lot...back to cycling when she goes home. Meet Sparky; http://xexistentialist.blogspot.com
 
Cool just becareful with whey protein poweders and bars because your body doesn't always have enough enzyme to break it all down. You wind up turning some whey into fat. they make enzyme tablets to go wiht that stuff. Good luck
 
I thought whey digested much easier than casein. I do take a digestive sup, but usually only with beef. I'm not going to go too overboard with the replacement meals, mainly because of the calories, but to eat 5-6 smaller meals, I plan on a whey first thing in the morning and then another during the day. I also am going to have a whey with frozen berries and a oil sup (omega 3 & vit e).
 
FloydLandis said:
Cool just becareful with whey protein poweders and bars because your body doesn't always have enough enzyme to break it all down. You wind up turning some whey into fat. they make enzyme tablets to go wiht that stuff. Good luck
I've been in field of studying supplements for a long time and only know whey proteins to be the opposite of your description. Whey proteins have the highest (BV) biological value of proteins listed. Meaning they have the best absorption rate. There is no need to take an enzyme unless a person is lactose intolerant. Whey Isolate is a good choice for lactose intolerance.

The proper amount of intake and the BV rating it is doubtful there will be any significant conversion to fat. In fact though it may cause more work for the kidneys it would more likely end up in the toilet than converted to fat. However, if you find something (a studied article) that I have not seen before that supports your statement I would like to know.


http://www.jssm.org/vol3/n3/2/v3n3-2pdf.pdf


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=106622&dopt=Abstract
 
You only need the support if you are taking just whey i should have specified. You should be fine. Actually we are all kinda taking this way to far. Just get as much protein as you can with as few calories and side junk as you can and keep burning more calories than you eat and you will loose weight. Just remember a pound of fat is said to be worth 3500 calories. Good luck