MR. 60% takes full responsibility of what happens in his team!

[Tuschinski]

And drops Basso as a discarded tissue

"It's my responsibility to make this decision and suspend Ivan from the
race," Riis said. "I have to think about the team, that is now the most
important thing. I trust Ivan Basso, but now it is up to him and his
lawyers to show he has nothing to do with this affair."

Well the usual happens: The riders are being left to rot by their team
leaders.

Hey Riis.. you tell me that you had NO idea how Basso was training?
Even though you have a military style approach Basso's medical record
never struck you as odd? Your own doctors never saw any odd things?

Jeez... how that meanie of a Basso allmost besmirched you... Good thing
you dropped him

Oh and Lefevre: Take Musseeuw in your team as an adviser and demand
STRONG sanctions on those caught. You are a class act indeed.

 

[B. Lafferty]

"Tuschinski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> And drops Basso as a discarded tissue
>
> "It's my responsibility to make this decision and suspend Ivan from the
> race," Riis said. "I have to think about the team, that is now the most
> important thing. I trust Ivan Basso, but now it is up to him and his
> lawyers to show he has nothing to do with this affair."
>
> Well the usual happens: The riders are being left to rot by their team
> leaders.
>
> Hey Riis.. you tell me that you had NO idea how Basso was training?
> Even though you have a military style approach Basso's medical record
> never struck you as odd? Your own doctors never saw any odd things?
>
> Jeez... how that meanie of a Basso allmost besmirched you... Good thing
> you dropped him
>
> Oh and Lefevre: Take Musseeuw in your team as an adviser and demand
> STRONG sanctions on those caught. You are a class act indeed.
>

Hypocrisy reigns supreme.

 

[Antti Salonen]

Tuschinski <[email protected]> wrote:

> Well the usual happens: The riders are being left to rot by their team
> leaders.
>
> Hey Riis.. you tell me that you had NO idea how Basso was training?

Of course he knew, but as long doping is against the rules the sponsors
want to maintain the false image of clean cycling. What do you expect
Riis to do?

I'm pretty sure that the riders also acknowledge the fact that if they
screw up or are just unlucky enough to get caught, they have to bear the
responsibility themselves. At least in public. Why do you think we hear
so little whining from the riders who are caught, except for the usual
denials?

-as

 

[Tuschinski]

Antti Salonen wrote:
> Tuschinski <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Well the usual happens: The riders are being left to rot by their team
> > leaders.
> >
> > Hey Riis.. you tell me that you had NO idea how Basso was training?
>
> Of course he knew, but as long doping is against the rules the sponsors
> want to maintain the false image of clean cycling. What do you expect
> Riis to do?
>

I expect the UCI to do something about Director Sportiffs like him.

> I'm pretty sure that the riders also acknowledge the fact that if they
> screw up or are just unlucky enough to get caught, they have to bear the
> responsibility themselves. At least in public. Why do you think we hear
> so little whining from the riders who are caught, except for the usual
> denials?
>
> -as

I hope that some will break under pressure and spill the beans about
this system kept alive by these teams. As the number of targets is
quite big and spread over many teams it's not as easy to contain
(smother?)

 

[Donald Munro]

Tuschinski wrote:
> I expect the UCI to do something about Director Sportiffs like him.

On what grounds ?

 

[RonSonic]

On 30 Jun 2006 07:40:24 -0700, "Tuschinski" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Antti Salonen wrote:
>> Tuschinski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > Well the usual happens: The riders are being left to rot by their team
>> > leaders.
>> >
>> > Hey Riis.. you tell me that you had NO idea how Basso was training?
>>
>> Of course he knew, but as long doping is against the rules the sponsors
>> want to maintain the false image of clean cycling. What do you expect
>> Riis to do?
>>
>
>I expect the UCI to do something about Director Sportiffs like him.
>
>> I'm pretty sure that the riders also acknowledge the fact that if they
>> screw up or are just unlucky enough to get caught, they have to bear the
>> responsibility themselves. At least in public. Why do you think we hear
>> so little whining from the riders who are caught, except for the usual
>> denials?
>>
>> -as
>
>I hope that some will break under pressure and spill the beans about
>this system kept alive by these teams. As the number of targets is
>quite big and spread over many teams it's not as easy to contain
>(smother?)

Spill what beans, blow forth a bunch of speculation and trash talk. Do you
really think these guys sit around and talk, tell each other what their team is
doing different, swap recipes and preparations.

There's nothing for them to say.

Has Oliver Stone completely destroyed the world's ability to understand how
collusion and conspiracy really work?

Ron

 

[Tuschinski]

Donald Munro wrote:
> Tuschinski wrote:
> > I expect the UCI to do something about Director Sportiffs like him.
>
> On what grounds ?


It's not half as hard as it seems:

1. Let the organizers decide wich teams to invite, dont give fixed
spots based on protour classification. That way a team can't CLAIM a
spot.

That one will give the organisations a strong weapon against teams as
Phonak.

2. Come up with a rule that a team with a certain amount of doping
cases looses it's license

That rule should be possible to inplement?

3. let the sport itself deny these people.

The teams decided they can closeout riders... so they can decide to
close out Director Sportifs.

It's a question of WANTING it to change.

 

[Tuschinski]

>
> Spill what beans, blow forth a bunch of speculation and trash talk. Do you
> really think these guys sit around and talk, tell each other what their team is
> doing different, swap recipes and preparations.
>

You forget something important: Riders change teams. So they know whats
going on in other teams.

> There's nothing for them to say.
>

Really?

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Antti Salonen
('[email protected]') wrote:

> Tuschinski <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Well the usual happens: The riders are being left to rot by their team
>> leaders.
>>
>> Hey Riis.. you tell me that you had NO idea how Basso was training?
>
> Of course he knew, but as long doping is against the rules the sponsors
> want to maintain the false image of clean cycling. What do you expect
> Riis to do?

Tell his star rider not to be a stupid idiot? Tell him that if he was
prepared to take that sort of risk with the sponsor's reputation he was
off the team?

What's really sickening about this is that the benefits of doping are not
large. I'm sure Ullrich and Basso would both be there or there abouts
with or without it - they are both exceedingly good cyclists. Would
Basso have won the Giro without dope? We can never know. But he had the
determination, he had the team and he had the strategy, and dope didn't
give him any of those things.

It's so fscking /stupid/!

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; I can't work yanks out......
;; Why do they frown upon sex yet relish violence?
;; Deep Fried Lettuce

 

[Frank Drackman]

"Tuschinski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Donald Munro wrote:
>> Tuschinski wrote:
>> > I expect the UCI to do something about Director Sportiffs like him.
>>
>> On what grounds ?
>
>
> It's not half as hard as it seems:
>
> 1. Let the organizers decide wich teams to invite, dont give fixed
> spots based on protour classification. That way a team can't CLAIM a
> spot.
>
> That one will give the organisations a strong weapon against teams as
> Phonak.
>

One of the reasons that the Pro Tours was organized is that teams were
having a hard time finding sponsors willing to write the big checks, for
multiple years, without any guarantees that the team would get into specific
races. The Tour De France is the key race that most sponsors wanted but
they also wanted to make sure they were getting exposure at other races that
were a target demographic for their products,

Going back to the system where ASO getting to invite a bunch of second tier
French teams is a sure way to lose more sponsor dollars.

 

[[email protected]]

Tuschinski wrote:
> And drops Basso as a discarded tissue
>
> "It's my responsibility to make this decision and suspend Ivan from the
> race," Riis said. "I have to think about the team, that is now the most
> important thing. I trust Ivan Basso, but now it is up to him and his
> lawyers to show he has nothing to do with this affair."
>
> Well the usual happens: The riders are being left to rot by their team
> leaders.
>
> Hey Riis.. you tell me that you had NO idea how Basso was training?
> Even though you have a military style approach Basso's medical record
> never struck you as odd? Your own doctors never saw any odd things?
>
> Jeez... how that meanie of a Basso allmost besmirched you... Good thing
> you dropped him
>
> Oh and Lefevre: Take Musseeuw in your team as an adviser and demand
> STRONG sanctions on those caught. You are a class act indeed.

This is why it is so preponderous that the top riders are going off and
doping "independently" when all of the teams have their own medical
staffs supposedly monitoring their "health". CSC stated that Basso's
contract forbade him from consulting outside medical assistance for his
training. Either CSC's medical staff sits on their asses all year, or
they are complicit.

It sounds like the current tactic has gotten away from team-based
doping programs, and more that everyone had to scramble and find thier
own networks and connections. But the teams have to at least tolerate
this, as clearly their own docs would have to notice the extreme hct
levels when they are doing EPO cycles. I can't imagine that during
January camps that no blood is being drawn.

 

[[email protected]]

The teams are not babysitters. They are trying to put together a squad
that attracts sponsors who'll pay more than the team shells out in
expenses. Getting on one of these teams is ultra competitive. Staying
on one of these teams is ultra competitive. Team needs results to keep
sponsors. Rider needs results to stay on team.

Unlike baseball and football, teams rarely offer extended, multi-year
deals to anyone. Perhaps having longer contracts for the riders might
take the pressure off for doping (somewhat).

What I'm getting at is, the team directors would really *like* to care
about policing their rider's lives, but they can't. I think we have a
pro peloton that is predominantly doped. Some of them through
organized doping programs of their teams, others through private
informal networks, and others (like today's news) are likely a
combination of the first two. Technically clean "teams" probably exist
(as far as structure), but the directors all know that the riders
insist on having their own private stock of imported ice (stored in ice
coolers) in their hotel rooms at major races. The directors just hope
that the riders have a good doc.


Tuschinski wrote:

>
> I hope that some will break under pressure and spill the beans about
> this system kept alive by these teams. As the number of targets is
> quite big and spread over many teams it's not as easy to contain
> (smother?)

 

[Jeff Jones]

[email protected] wrote:
>
> This is why it is so preponderous that the top riders are going off and
> doping "independently" when all of the teams have their own medical
> staffs supposedly monitoring their "health". CSC stated that Basso's
> contract forbade him from consulting outside medical assistance for his
> training. Either CSC's medical staff sits on their asses all year, or
> they are complicit.
>
In a very bizarre coincidence, I spoke to one of the team's doctors
today. I learned that they would not have had any obvious indication
that Basso was doping.

Jeff

 

[[email protected]]

Jeff Jones wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > This is why it is so preponderous that the top riders are going off and
> > doping "independently" when all of the teams have their own medical
> > staffs supposedly monitoring their "health". CSC stated that Basso's
> > contract forbade him from consulting outside medical assistance for his
> > training. Either CSC's medical staff sits on their asses all year, or
> > they are complicit.
> >
> In a very bizarre coincidence, I spoke to one of the team's doctors
> today. I learned that they would not have had any obvious indication
> that Basso was doping.
>
> Jeff

Only as obvious as the testing you perform in-house.

 

[Stu Fleming]

Bjarne Riis has been a cancer at the heart of cycling since 1996. He is
the reason Indurain retired. He, and the other DSs treat the sport like
a Boys Club with no responibility. As long as you can buy and sell a
race and get a result for the sponsor, so what?

 

[Michael Press]

In article
<[email protected]>,
"Tuschinski" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> I hope that some will break under pressure and spill the beans about
> this system kept alive by these teams. As the number of targets is
> quite big and spread over many teams it's not as easy to contain
> (smother?)

Hush money?

--
Michael Press

 

[Tuschinski]

Stu Fleming wrote:
> Bjarne Riis has been a cancer at the heart of cycling since 1996. He is
> the reason Indurain retired. He, and the other DSs treat the sport like
> a Boys Club with no responibility. As long as you can buy and sell a
> race and get a result for the sponsor, so what?

I blame the UCI. Allfocus have deliberately been on the riders, not the
teams. The Festina case wouldn't have happened without the police being
triggered.

 

[Tuschinski]

Jeff Jones wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > This is why it is so preponderous that the top riders are going off and
> > doping "independently" when all of the teams have their own medical
> > staffs supposedly monitoring their "health". CSC stated that Basso's
> > contract forbade him from consulting outside medical assistance for his
> > training. Either CSC's medical staff sits on their asses all year, or
> > they are complicit.
> >
> In a very bizarre coincidence, I spoke to one of the team's doctors
> today. I learned that they would not have had any obvious indication
> that Basso was doping.
>
> Jeff

The odd Hematocrit levels wouldn't show? The IV wounds of unknown
treatments didn't strike as odd? The daily taking in of epo during the
offseason (Supposed when CSC was holding it's big camp) never was
noticed?

There I was thinking that CSC had a very competent staff^^

 

[Jeff Jones]

Tuschinski wrote:
> Jeff Jones wrote:

> > >
> > In a very bizarre coincidence, I spoke to one of the team's doctors
> > today. I learned that they would not have had any obvious indication
> > that Basso was doping.
> >
> > Jeff
>
> The odd Hematocrit levels wouldn't show? The IV wounds of unknown
> treatments didn't strike as odd? The daily taking in of epo during the
> offseason (Supposed when CSC was holding it's big camp) never was
> noticed?
>
If it's not there, it won't be noticed. The doctors aren't naive, and
obviously they don't monitor the riders each week, but if they see
totally normal blood values from all the riders, then they wouldn't
have much reason to suspect.

At the moment, what's been shown is that all the riders on the list
have had some sort of contact with the good doctor in Spain. The
evidence seems heavily stacked against him, and also against quite a
few riders (the doping programs, blood bags etc). But for others,
there's less evidence. So we'll see what eventually shakes out from
this.

All those riders had to leave because of the code of ethics. If they
are named in any sort of investigation, then they can't race.

Jeff