My Gawd - Litespeed Ti

[Bolter03]

Was at a LBS yesterday and the rep for Litespeed was there with a new titanium frame. Didn't ask the weight but it felt like about a pound. Welds and finish were awesome and it wasn't even the top of the line. I'm sure this topic has been beat to death but what is everybody's experience with Ti? I mean the rep put the thing on the floor and flexed the drop down tubes. Look at them they were oblong laterally so it looks like they are trying to address the whip factor I've read about.

He said that they have grants from NASA for the Mars rover project. Is the technology finally getting there and is Litespeed the innovator and leader in the field?

Comments?

 

[dhk2]

Haven't seen the latest Litespeed frames, but the news for ti lovers is that the Lynskey family (original founders of Litespeed) is now back in business selling custom frames under their own name. If you think Litespeeds are cool, check out Lynskey online. In addition to picking frame tubing and geometry, they offer awesome custom paint options. If I was looking for ti, Lynskey would be it.

 

[alienator]

Well, often the reps will play fast and loose with facts and will do all sorts of meaningless floor demonstrations.

As for being so good that they had a contract w/ NASA for the rover missions...well, that could mean all sorts of things, including making things for tests, things that never went into space. Where I'm at we've made all sorts of things for space missions, including packages for Mars Pathfinder, Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, Mars Surveyor, James Webb Space Telescope, and a bunch of others. That doesn't say a damned thing about our ability build bicycles. I really doubt that Litespeed bikes are space qualified. Having worked at NASA, I've also seen that all sorts of incompetent companies are able to win contracts.

Litespeed makes ok bikes, but it's not as if they're leaders of anything. They'd like you to think they are. Litespeed is prone to doing all sorts of demonstrations that prove nothing other than the demonstrations are stupid and Litespeed is willing to do anything to sell bikes, including blurring the facts.

One Ti bike isn't anothter Ti bike. Similarly, you can't make generalizations about Ti bikes. You need to ride a bike to see if it suits you, pushes your buttons, or gives you naughty, tingly feeling behind your mansack.

 

[Bolter03]

Well, often the reps will play fast and loose with facts and will do all sorts of meaningless floor demonstrations.

As for being so good that they had a contract w/ NASA for the rover missions...well, that could mean all sorts of things, including making things for tests, things that never went into space. Where I'm at we've made all sorts of things for space missions, including packages for Mars Pathfinder, Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, Mars Surveyor, James Webb Space Telescope, and a bunch of others. That doesn't say a damned thing about our ability build bicycles. I really doubt that Litespeed bikes are space qualified. Having worked at NASA, I've also seen that all sorts of incompetent companies are able to win contracts.

Litespeed makes ok bikes, but it's not as if they're leaders of anything. They'd like you to think they are. Litespeed is prone to doing all sorts of demonstrations that prove nothing other than the demonstrations are stupid and Litespeed is willing to do anything to sell bikes, including blurring the facts.

One Ti bike isn't anothter Ti bike. Similarly, you can't make generalizations about Ti bikes. You need to ride a bike to see if it suits you, pushes your buttons, or gives you naughty, tingly feeling behind your mansack.

I agree and I guess the question should be...how reasonable is it to ask a bike shop to let me take a $2500 frame out for a 50-100 mile ride before making the purchase. Can I expect them to put my Campy components on it at my cost and say "Prove it!"?

 

[alienator]

I agree and I guess the question should be...how reasonable is it to ask a bike shop to let me take a $2500 frame out for a 50-100 mile ride before making the purchase. Can I expect them to put my Campy components on it at my cost and say "Prove it!"?

I wouldn't buy from an LBS that wouldn't let you take an extended ride on a bike you're considering for purchase. Simple. You don't need your components on the bike to see if the fit and ride appeal to you. All you need is to adjust the fit on the test bike to your needs and ride.

Moots sent me a bike to ride for 4 days before I purchased. A bike shop let me test ride a Look 595 for a little over an hour, which is much better than nothing. Quite a few bike shops around here do the same thing, if not more.

Again, if a bike shop wouldn't let me do a real test ride of a bike, they wouldn't see my money....ever.

 

[Phill P]

Local bike shop here has a few Lynskey frames ont he wall (about $4000-$5600AUD) and a few time frames (-$7500), but I don't remember seeing anytihng built up.

I don't know many shops around Melbourne that have one of every size of any of thier biuke built up on the floor, let alone $10K bikes in every size. But then if I were going to be poping down anything over $3000 I'd at least want it sized and fitted before parting with one months income or more.

So many variables with a new bike. Just because you love a set of wheels on your current bike doesn't mean they will work on the new frames (could be too stiff or not stiff enough), the geometry could be slightly different. This is an even bigger deal with carbon fibre which has been spoken about being different brand to brand, and even size to size.

Doesn't matter what all the marketing says, or what salemen do to catch your interest. Ride it, ride other bikes, then decent what you like.

 

[bobbyOCR]

Awww but come on, you can drive a 4wd over a titanium tube and it won't crush

 

[CAMPYBOB]

I spent a season (5700 miles or so) on a Litespeed Firenze/Easton EC90SLX. I bought it on a lark just wanting to try a Ti frame. The frame/fork were great at absorbing the worst roads Ohio could throw at them. I've never ridden anything before or since that could soak up crappy pavement like that combo could. Drilling railroad tracks was never more fun.

But...

The rear triangle was EXTREMELY flexible. The bottom bracket moved around like the tubeset were cardboard. Climbing and sprinting is soft. Sad, because that frame fit me to a 'T'...as perfect as I could ever have hoped to dial any bike in.

So, please do ride before you buy. My Litespeed now serves as a backup. Would I try another, higher-end Litespeed? Yes, But not without a damn good long run at some steep hills before plunking down the cash.

 

[fleshbroiler]

I agree and I guess the question should be...how reasonable is it to ask a bike shop to let me take a $2500 frame out for a 50-100 mile ride before making the purchase. Can I expect them to put my Campy components on it at my cost and say "Prove it!"?

If you check with some small frame builders like Seven and Independant Fabrication , you'll see which dealers in their network have demo bikes. Each dealer has different business rules for a demo rides, but yes it is possible to arrange an extended test ride.

 

[Phill P]

I spent a season (5700 miles or so) on a Litespeed Firenze/Easton EC90SLX. I bought it on a lark just wanting to try a Ti frame. The frame/fork were great at absorbing the worst roads Ohio could throw at them. I've never ridden anything before or since that could soak up crappy pavement like that combo could. Drilling railroad tracks was never more fun.

But...

The rear triangle was EXTREMELY flexible. The bottom bracket moved around like the tubeset were cardboard. Climbing and sprinting is soft. Sad, because that frame fit me to a 'T'...as perfect as I could ever have hoped to dial any bike in.

So, please do ride before you buy. My Litespeed now serves as a backup. Would I try another, higher-end Litespeed? Yes, But not without a damn good long run at some steep hills before plunking down the cash.

Gee I would have been keeping that bike as a training or century bike. Who cares if the thing isn't the fastest if you aren't racing, better to keep yourself fresh so can ride or train longer.
Where is that thread thats says rear triangles don't flex or absorb bumps? (Different forum??)

Awww but come on, you can drive a 4wd over a titanium tube and it won't crush

I'll keep that in mind the next time I plan on driving over my bike.......

I saw the same demo, I know you were being sarcastic, but it high lights the stupid things people will do to try and say some thing is better, even if its completely irrelavant.

 

[dpetra]

Titanium is all that! Why do people just love to criticize it?

I didn't know I could have asked for an extended test ride. I didn't think that the lbs would have been to keen to let something that expensive go out into the untamed wilderness that is Jax Beach, Florida, so I didn't ask. The LBS hooked it up to a trainer and then I was fitted. Different lengths of stems at different angles were changed until a suitable one was found. After I had the bike for a few rides, I found that I preferred to sit more upright so the stem was then switched out again. The seat was also exchanged after my first ride.

After a good amount of miles, I can honestly say that it is like riding nothing. That is, it's like an extension of oneself. There is none of the numbness that I associate with Aluminum, it definitely rides immeasurably better than the aluminum Cannondale that it replaced. As far as flexibility, it is not as whippy as a steel Raleigh that I had back in the late eighties or as heavy as the steel Trek that I had in the mid-nineties.

The reason why the Firenze is whippy is probably the shape of the tubes. On the model that I have, the downtube is ovalized and the seatstays are splayed outwards. There is a sticker that says G.E.T. I reckon the shape of the tubes makes a lot of difference. The Firenze was the first one that I looked at first, but the finish of the tubes made me decide to spend fifty percent more on the Solano. I don't regret spending the extra dough. If you are going to spend that kind of money on something, you shouldn't make a compromise and then regret it.

American Bicycles in Jax Beach was very cool about all of the adjustments that were made subsequent to my purchase. The bike is still going strong after 5000 miles and three pretty good wrecks which have involved a Ford Escort, a Cadillac, and a pedestrian in the bike lane. The only issue to report is a little bit of play in the rear wheel, but I guess that post belongs to another forum.

 

[alienator]

Titanium is all that! Why do people just love to criticize it?

Well, there are folks who will criticize materials as result of their mistaken conceptions about said materials, but then there also folks who will sing a material's praises out of some mistaken notions about that material.

Material is not the most important factor in ride. Nope: it's fit, tire pressure, saddle, possibly shorts/bibs, and handlebar/tape. After all that comes frame design, geometry, construction, and QC. Then, maybe, material. The simple fact is a frame can be designed, with any given material, to ride just about any way you want, but in the grand scheme of things, material itself plays a very small part.

I have a Ti bike and the ride ain't bad at all. However, I can transform the ride from nice and compliant to jack hammer harsh just by increasing the pressure in the tires. Between the different bikes I've pedaled--Ti bikes, Al bikes, steel bikes, and CF bikes--the difference in ride quality was at most the magnitude of the difference in diameter of a red pube and a black pube. While my Ti bike is wonderlicious, I have to get a new frame, and that frame will be CF.....only because it's the frame that suits my needs and my corpus' geometry the best.

The Steel Is Real ride, the vibration free and dead CF ride, the harsh aluminum ride, and the ethereal Ti ride......they're all different forms of the biggest lie perpetuated in cycling. A magazine did blind tests with frames of different materials and found the riders could not tell which material was which.

 

[Thylacine]

He said that they have grants from NASA for the Mars rover project. Is the technology finally getting there and is Litespeed the innovator and leader in the field?

Yes. Whatever the sales person says is 100% correct and is in no way geared towards getting you to buy their ****.

Did you notice whether it was laterally stiff, yet vertically compliant?

I bet that thing corners like a Martian prostitute.

 

[531Aussie]

I'll try again.....


It climbs like a jet-propelled African Bush Baby and descends like a rocket-propelled anvil dropped from the space shuttle

 

[London knight]

Doe anyone have any experience racing on a Merlin extralight? How does it measure up with other Ti frames?

 

[artemidorus]

...laterally stiff, yet vertically compliant?

I bet that thing corners like a Martian prostitute.

It climbs like a jet-propelled African Bush Baby and descends like a rocket-propelled anvil dropped from the space shuttle

Strangely familiar...

 

[Bolter03]

I'll try again.....


It climbs like a jet-propelled African Bush Baby and descends like a rocket-propelled anvil dropped from the space shuttle

Ironic, as the salesmen said the rover is going to be dropped on the Martian surface from about 200'.

 

[Bolter03]

Well, there are folks who will criticize materials as result of their mistaken conceptions about said materials, but then there also folks who will sing a material's praises out of some mistaken notions about that material.

Material is not the most important factor in ride. Nope: it's fit, tire pressure, saddle, possibly shorts/bibs, and handlebar/tape. After all that comes frame design, geometry, construction, and QC. Then, maybe, material. The simple fact is a frame can be designed, with any given material, to ride just about any way you want, but in the grand scheme of things, material itself plays a very small part.

I have a Ti bike and the ride ain't bad at all. However, I can transform the ride from nice and compliant to jack hammer harsh just by increasing the pressure in the tires. Between the different bikes I've pedaled--Ti bikes, Al bikes, steel bikes, and CF bikes--the difference in ride quality was at most the magnitude of the difference in diameter of a red pube and a black pube. While my Ti bike is wonderlicious, I have to get a new frame, and that frame will be CF.....only because it's the frame that suits my needs and my corpus' geometry the best.

The Steel Is Real ride, the vibration free and dead CF ride, the harsh aluminum ride, and the ethereal Ti ride......they're all different forms of the biggest lie perpetuated in cycling. A magazine did blind tests with frames of different materials and found the riders could not tell which material was which.

Couldn't agree with you more. Had a steel years ago and have another now for winter riding and touring. Bought an aluminum and debating switching the components to a CF or Ti frame. I believe you are correct in testing them and quite simply finding the one that I like best regardless of the material. I could say it's because of weight or ride but deep down it is probably more edification or snob appeal. It seems an inescapable fact that no matter what my 'other' bike will be made of there will always be the steel one to compliment it and at 20% or less than the cost of any of the other frame materials.

 

[lwedge]

Well, there are folks who will criticize materials as result of their mistaken conceptions about said materials, but then there also folks who will sing a material's praises out of some mistaken notions about that material.

Material is not the most important factor in ride. Nope: it's fit, tire pressure, saddle, possibly shorts/bibs, and handlebar/tape. After all that comes frame design, geometry, construction, and QC. Then, maybe, material. The simple fact is a frame can be designed, with any given material, to ride just about any way you want, but in the grand scheme of things, material itself plays a very small part.

I have a Ti bike and the ride ain't bad at all. However, I can transform the ride from nice and compliant to jack hammer harsh just by increasing the pressure in the tires. Between the different bikes I've pedaled--Ti bikes, Al bikes, steel bikes, and CF bikes--the difference in ride quality was at most the magnitude of the difference in diameter of a red pube and a black pube. While my Ti bike is wonderlicious, I have to get a new frame, and that frame will be CF.....only because it's the frame that suits my needs and my corpus' geometry the best.

The Steel Is Real ride, the vibration free and dead CF ride, the harsh aluminum ride, and the ethereal Ti ride......they're all different forms of the biggest lie perpetuated in cycling. A magazine did blind tests with frames of different materials and found the riders could not tell which material was which.

Well put.

lw