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New Uni Event...

Started by HardcoreCokerRider · · Last activity · 44 posts · 1,390 views

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rec.sport.unicycling
Published
9 January 2005
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15 January 2005
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HardcoreCokerRider
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  1. Now that my video is online, I would like to share my ideas with the
    members of the forum regarding my vision for a new form of competitive
    riding. Obviously, Kris Holm and many other unicyclists have been riding
    the kinds of obstacles featured at Rays MTB for years (in their
    traditional outdoor mountain bike park environment and on trials
    courses). It is the availability of facilities like Rays, however, that
    I believe has opened up a whole new dimension to riding Cokers, and
    perhaps smaller wheel uni’s as well. I have worked out the basic concept
    of the sport… but it will need much refinement and many questions will
    need to be answered... so I hope some of you will find this interesting
    enough to want to be involved in the formative stages. If you haven’t
    already downloaded and viewed my movie, I recommend that you do that
    first because I will be referencing certain scenes in order to
    illustrate certain points. For the thread from which to download my
    movie, click here:

    http://tinyurl.com/4gbcu

    All that being said, here goes:

    The basic concept of the sport is very similar to uni trials, but the
    major difference is that the competition I propose does not involve
    hopping to get over obstacles, but rather simply riding over them on a
    Coker (and perhaps there could be a 28”/29” class and other classes as
    well). In order to successfully ride many obstacles a precise line using
    the proper entry speed and momentum management is required in order to
    carry you over the obstacle(s)… and it can be extremely challenging!

    Since I already rode at Rays and have the video footage of specific
    obstacles that I’ll reference, I will be using Rays park in my
    description… but various obstacles could obviously be constructed and
    laid out at other locations besides Rays, for the purposes of holding
    competitions (or just to have a practice course).

    A “Section” is a predefined segment of a course. It is defined by an
    “entry point” and an “exit point” and has a difficulty rating (1 – 10,
    10 being the most difficult) defined by the number of points the rider
    receives for completing the Section. There is also a “starting point.”
    The rider mounts his/her uni at the “starting point” and rides the
    distance from the “starting” point to the “entry point” in order to gain
    sufficient speed/momentum to clear the obstacle(s) contained between the
    “entry point” and the “exit point.” The “exit point” will usually be
    positioned a minimum of 10 feet beyond the last obstacle, so the rider
    must cross the “exit point” on the uni in order to successfully complete
    the Section. If the rider clears the obstacle but falls down before
    pedaling ten feet to cross the “exit point”, the rider will not be
    awarded the points for completing the Section. Sections get
    progressively harder. Initially, Sections consist of a single obstacle.
    As the competition progresses, the Sections get longer and contain
    multiple obstacle. Sections may contain a multitude of obstacles, such
    as: ramps, jumps, teeter/totters, skinnies, elevated skinnies, swing
    bridges, drop-offs, or really any type of obstacle that allows
    continuous pedaling (no hopping). Riders are given three attempts to
    make a Section. If the Section is completed, the rider wins the points
    for that Section. The rider with the most points wins… simple as that. I
    know this is probably very similar to Kris Holm’s rules for uni trials…
    it’s supposed to be. I do have a couple of additional ideas I’ve been
    throwing around to spice things up a bit. For example: Each section
    could also have “bonus points” (I don’t like the word “bonus” so I’d
    want to use a different term, but I just wanted to give you the idea).
    If a rider is extremely confident in his/her ability to complete a
    specific Section, the rider can opt for the “bonus points” (which are
    usually about 10% - 30% above the point value of that Section, so a
    level 10 difficulty section could have an additional 1-3 “bonus
    points”). If the rider wants to opt for the bonus points, it means
    he/she must declare there intention (to try for the bonus points) before
    attempting the Section. By declaring your intention to go for the “bonus
    points”, the rider gives up his/her right to three attempts at the
    Section, and is given just a single attempt. If the rider completes the
    Section in that single attempt he/she wins the “bonus points” for that
    section. This would add an additional element of drama and could help
    narrow the point spread between the leader and all the other riders
    making the competition more pivotal and exciting.

    Now let me illustrate some sections from Rays that are really great for
    this competition. (Point value is just a quick example to give you an
    idea - no official point values have been assigned yet, as this is
    obviously still in the very formative stages)

    _Single_Ramp_Obstacles:_

    • Jump Ramp w/Flat Horizontal Top and Drop-Off to Downramp
    Timecode: 4:26, 4:40
    Difficulty: 3
    Bonus Points: ½ point

    • Multi-level Ramp w/Hollow Step
    Timecode: 5:24
    Difficulty: 4.5
    Bonus Points: 1 point

    • Double-Hump Drop-Off Ramp
    Timecode: 5:56
    Difficulty: 4.5
    Bonus Points: 1 point

    _2_Ramp_Obstacles:_

    • Hump Ramp & Tabletop
    Timecode: 4:31
    Difficulty: 3
    Bonus Points: ½ point

    _Single_Skinnies:_

    • Small Elevated Skinny
    Timecode: 4:45, 5:09
    Difficulty: 4.5
    Bonus Points: 1 point

    _Multiple_Obstacles:_

    • Teeter-tooter through turns and over exit ramps back to floor
    Timecode: 5:39
    Difficulty: 5
    Bonus Points: 1.5 points

    • Elevated Dip-Turn, Over Speed-Bump & Beyond Log Skinny
    (I didn’t make it… wiped out on the log skinny, as you can see)
    Timecode: 6:24
    Difficulty: 5.5
    Bonus Points: 1.5 points

    Now here are some observations and questions:

    Being that (to my knowledge) “Trials” is defined as a competition
    involving navigating over obstacles on a uni/bike/motorcycle, I would
    think that this new sport is a form of Trials. However, Trials almost
    universally implies hopping, which is not a part of this new sport… so I
    would think that designating it as a form of Trials would be quite
    misleading! What do you think? And what the heck can we call this new
    sport/competition? I’m at a loss! Any suggestions would be greatly
    appreciated!

    I can tell you that this form of riding/competition is extremely
    challenging and TONS of fun! I think it can be a very exciting new
    element of the sport with lots of appeal. What do you think? Thanks for
    your help! I look forward to your comments…

    --
    HardcoreCokerRider - Skateparks, MTB & Urban Insanity
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  2. That sounds great, an alternative to this would be cool uni cross event,
    but instread of having uni's ride on a track that is not designed for
    unicycles like at TOque where a BMX track is used, a side by side track
    that is designed for speed would make for a very cool event in addition
    to the one you already mentioned. Like these lines at Ray's , just side
    by side

    I think you have a great idea, and this type of event has a lot of
    potential, I'll help out anyway I can

    How is the difficulty rated?

    --
    Brian MacKenzie - LAN Solo

    Tim's futon is my main man

    Forthcoming DVD
    TRAINING WHEEL NOT REQUIRED:
    '8mb Trailer' (http://www.brianmackenzie.com/TWNR_Trailer2.wmv)

    'Unicycle Product Reviews'
    (http://londonunicyclingclub.ca/unicycleReviews.aspx)
    *113* reviews on *75* products, never make an uninformed purchase again!

    TWNR World Premiere Party Feb 19 in Cleveland at
    'Ray's Indoor Mountainbike Park' (http://www.raysmtb.com)! Click 'here'
    (http://tinyurl.com/5qnwb) for more info
    YOU NEED TO BE ON THE LIST I SUBMIT ON JAN 30 IN ORDER TO COME, PLEASE
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    Canadian Premiere is at UWO, London Ontario, Feb 27th. Group MUni rides
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  3. That sounds great, an alternative to this would be cool uni cross event,
    but instread of having uni's ride on a track that is not designed for
    unicycles like at TOque where a BMX track is used, a side by side track
    that is designed for speed would make for a very cool event in addition
    to the one you already mentioned. Like these lines at Ray's , just side
    by side

    I think you have a great idea, and this type of event has a lot of
    potential, I'll help out anyway I can

    How is the difficulty rated?

    --
    Brian MacKenzie - LAN Solo

    Tim's futon is my main man

    Forthcoming DVD
    TRAINING WHEEL NOT REQUIRED:
    '8mb Trailer' (http://www.brianmackenzie.com/TWNR_Trailer2.wmv)

    'Unicycle Product Reviews'
    (http://londonunicyclingclub.ca/unicycleReviews.aspx)
    *113* reviews on *75* products, never make an uninformed purchase again!

    TWNR World Premiere Party Feb 19 in Cleveland at
    'Ray's Indoor Mountainbike Park' (http://www.raysmtb.com)! Click 'here'
    (http://tinyurl.com/5qnwb) for more info
    YOU NEED TO BE ON THE LIST I SUBMIT ON JAN 30 IN ORDER TO COME, PLEASE
    EMAIL ME AT BRIANANDLEEANNE (AT) SYMPATICO.CA

    Canadian Premiere is at UWO, London Ontario, Feb 27th. Group MUni rides
    planned!

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  4. Wikipedia's Definition of "Unicycle Trials":
    "Unicycle trials are an activity in which participants attempt to ride a
    unicycle over obstacles without any part of the rider touching the
    ground. The obstacles traversed can be set up specifically for the
    purpose of unicycle trials, but are often walls, railings, ledges and
    other "street furniture" found in an urban environment.

    Obstacles are traversed using various moves. Hopping is achieved by
    suddenly forcing the unicycle pedals downwards while holding the seat,
    the reactive forces resulting from the compression of the tire lift the
    unicycle into the air. Jumping is a similar to hopping, except that the
    unicycle seat is held in front of the rider to allow greater height to
    be achieved. Pedal grabs and crank grabs involve a hop or jump to land
    the unicycles pedal or crank on the edge of an object, and then a second
    hop or jump to land the unicycle fully on the object.

    Although unicycle trials can be performed on a standard unicycle, many
    are not designed for the forces which are caused by unicycle trials. A
    trials unicycle is built with unicycle trials in mind, and is therefore
    designed to better cope with these stresses."

    Although they do mention hopping, jumping, crankgrabs etc. as a part of
    trials they do no defien it as such. "Unicycle trials are an activity in
    which participants attempt to ride a unicycle over obstacles without any
    part of the rider touching the ground." So technically your new Big
    Wheel trials qualifies, and also adds more reasons why I need a coker
    sooner.

    Andrew, you astound me and are by far the best coker rider I have ever
    seen, and I doubt others disagree, but you definetely are "The Coker
    Guy" in my eyes. I think it is great what you are doing for the sport,
    thinking outside the wheel. Ride on man, ride on!

    --
    Catboy - RIP Unibiker

    'I have the amazing power to talk to cats! =^.^='
    (http://gallery.unicyclist.com/Catboy)

    RIP Unibiker
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  5. HardcoreCokerTrials

    --
    Brian MacKenzie - LAN Solo

    Tim's futon is my main man

    Forthcoming DVD
    TRAINING WHEEL NOT REQUIRED:
    '8mb Trailer' (http://www.brianmackenzie.com/TWNR_Trailer2.wmv)

    'Unicycle Product Reviews'
    (http://londonunicyclingclub.ca/unicycleReviews.aspx)
    *113* reviews on *75* products, never make an uninformed purchase again!

    TWNR World Premiere Party Feb 19 in Cleveland at
    'Ray's Indoor Mountainbike Park' (http://www.raysmtb.com)! Click 'here'
    (http://tinyurl.com/5qnwb) for more info
    YOU NEED TO BE ON THE LIST I SUBMIT ON JAN 30 IN ORDER TO COME, PLEASE
    EMAIL ME AT BRIANANDLEEANNE (AT) SYMPATICO.CA

    Canadian Premiere is at UWO, London Ontario, Feb 27th. Group MUni rides
    planned!

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  6. Before I read to the bottom of the original post, I already had a name
    in mind:
    Rolling Trials.

    It's Trials, with one major exception. No hopping. Riding through
    something without hopping is called rolling. To repeat a famous Kris
    Holm quote from a visit to the North Shore in 1999, "Oh darn it. I meant
    to roll that."

    You would have to get a clear way to identify what counts as a hop,
    because at some point you have to declare a DQ or dismount. That's just
    a matter of choosing the appropriate definition.

    Then you'd have to ask yourself what a Coker has to do with any of it.
    For regular Trials, a 20" wheel is generally considered the best
    hardware, usually because the smaller wheel is lighter and easier to
    move. I don't think Rolling Trials would need to concern itself with
    wheel size, as bigger wheels might simply work better for some things.
    But they would work worse for others. So you might want to divide things
    by wheel size to keep it focused on just larger wheels.

    Catboy quoted a definition of Unicycle Trials from Wikipedia. Who is
    wikipedia among us? In other words we (the folks here at the forums and
    our friends) generally make the rules and definitions. I'd rather get
    the facts from Kris Holm's mouth than somebody who is posting a
    second-hand account. Unles Kris indeed posted that. Kris is the
    originator of rules for Unicycle Trials.

    Anyway, whatever it ends up being called, I love the idea of Rolling
    Trials. Rolling a section of obstacles is the next hardest thing after
    someone has made it through with hops. I alway try to roll stuff first.
    So I can really appreciate the simplicity of the idea.

    But in a way it will be a little like harness racing, or competitive
    walking, where you do the best you can but force limits upon yourself.
    For that reason, it will probably never be quite as important as
    "unlimited" Trials.

    --
    johnfoss - Walkin' on the edge

    John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
    "jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com

    "Read the rules!" -- 'IUF Rulebook'
    (http://www.unicycling.org/iuf/rulebook/) -- 'USA Rulebook'
    (http://www.unicycling.org/usa/competition/)
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  7. Brian MacKenzie said:

    *That sounds great, an alternative to this would be cool uni cross
    event, but instread of having uni's ride on a track that is not
    designed for unicycles like at TOque where a BMX track is used, a side
    by side track that is designed for speed would make for a very cool
    event in addition to the one you already mentioned. Like these lines
    at Ray's , just side by side

    I think you have a great idea, and this type of event has a lot of
    potential, I'll help out anyway I can

    How is the difficulty rated? *

    Thanks a lot, Brian. Actually I have ideas for a few types of events and
    the one you mention is very similar to my obstacle course race, but most
    of the obstacles definitely wouldn't be the same as the ones I listed in
    my original post... those obstacles are too big and challenging, and it
    would drain a lot of energy to have a lot of big obstacles. My vision
    for the obstacle race includes most of all the obstacles in the beginner
    section of Rays (except for the skinnies) and high speed flat (obstacle
    free) sections leading into banked turns. But that's a separate event so
    I'll save that discussion for a separate thread. Great idea, though!
    Brilliant minds think alike 😄

    Thanks for your offer to help out.

    This sport/event is obviously in the formative stages, so nothing has
    been finalized, yet... but the way I see the the difficulty ratings
    being established is as such:

    The difficulty rating is determined by the average number of attempts of
    the top five rated riders (could also be top ten, or any number) for
    this event to complete a section, divided by two. Thus if the (average)
    number of tries to complete a Section for the top five riders is 10,
    then the difficulty rating would be a 5. However, in my opinion this
    system should only apply to Sections rated at a difficulty of 1 - 9. A
    Section having a difficulty rating of 10 should have never been
    succesfully completed before by any rider. This is just an idea for one
    way of doing the difficulty rating system... I am open to other ideas.

    Quoted message said:

    -Originally posted by Catboy-
    *Although they do mention hopping, jumping, crankgrabs etc. as a part
    of trials they do no defien it as such. "Unicycle trials are an
    activity in which participants attempt to ride a unicycle over
    obstacles without any part of the rider touching the ground." So
    technically your new Big Wheel trials qualifies, and also adds more
    reasons why I need a coker sooner.

    Andrew, you astound me and are by far the best coker rider I have ever
    seen, and I doubt others disagree, but you definetely are "The Coker
    Guy" in my eyes. I think it is great what you are doing for the sport,
    thinking outside the wheel. Ride on man, ride on!*

    Thanks for your definition, Catboy, however like John Foss I'm not
    familiar with Wikipedia.... though it does confirm my belief that it is
    officially a form of Trials. Thanks so much for your nice words and your
    support and encouragement.

    Quoted message said:

    -Originally posted by johnfoss-
    *Before I read to the bottom of the original post, I already had a
    name in mind:
    Rolling Trials.
    *

    That captures it's essence pure and simple... I love it! A simple name
    for a simple concept... and by using the word "Rolling" it avoids the
    problem I was concerned about of having a name with the word "Trials" in
    it inadvertantly misleading people into thinking the event is dominated
    by hopping... as is all other types of Trials events (on uni's, bikes,
    and motorcycles). The name is brilliant in it's simplicity and it's
    descriptive accuracy! Unless someone can come up with a more appropriate
    name (which I doubt), I'd like to suggest that the name John Foss came
    up with (Rolling Trials) become the official name for this event.

    Quoted message said:

    -Originally posted by johnfoss-
    *You would have to get a clear way to identify what counts as a hop,
    because at some point you have to declare a DQ or dismount. That's
    just a matter of choosing the appropriate definition.*

    In my opinion, a single hop would be ok, but multiple (intentional) hops
    would be cause for DQ... but this is something that definitely needs
    further thought.

    Quoted message said:

    -Originally posted by johnfoss-
    *Then you'd have to ask yourself what a Coker has to do with any of
    it. For regular Trials, a 20" wheel is generally considered the best
    hardware, usually because the smaller wheel is lighter and easier to
    move. I don't think Rolling Trials would need to concern itself with
    wheel size, as bigger wheels might simply work better for some things.
    But they would work worse for others. So you might want to divide
    things by wheel size to keep it focused on just larger wheels.*

    In my opinion, you could just have classes... such as: 26", 28"/29", and
    36", and possible Open Class (any of the above). If you have open class,
    can a single rider use different uni's having different wheel sizes in a
    single competition?

    Quoted message said:

    -Originally posted by johnfoss-
    *Anyway, whatever it ends up being called, I love the idea of Rolling
    Trials. Rolling a section of obstacles is the next hardest thing after
    someone has made it through with hops. I alway try to roll stuff
    first. So I can really appreciate the simplicity of the idea.*

    I'm really excited that you like the idea! I believe once people try
    this event, they will LOVE it... and sitting 4 feet high on a Coker,
    pedaling as fast as you can to generate lots of speed in order to roll
    over large and menacing looking obstacles is an event that I think live
    spectators (and possibly even a TV audience) could really get excited
    about, too. Although Dave Lowell did a great job with the camera work at
    Rays, he's the first to admit that he is an amateur at shooting video
    and doesn't have much experience. With professional cameramen shooting
    the action, they can get some really cool angles that I believe would
    make the event appear quite exciting to the viewing public... when they
    see Coker pilots hitting large, menacing looking obstacles from low
    camera angles, with different types of lenses, and such... the speed and
    the ascent up the obstacle will appear much more exhilirating (as it
    feels)!

    Quoted message said:

    -Originally posted by johnfoss-
    *But in a way it will be a little like harness racing, or competitive
    walking, where you do the best you can but force limits upon yourself.
    For that reason, it will probably never be quite as important as
    "unlimited" Trials.*

    I can't imagine why a rider would ever force limits upon
    himself/herself??? In my view it would be the exact opposite... you'd
    always be pushing your limits... that's why a Section with a difficulty
    rating of 10 would be (by definition according to the rules) a Section
    that had never been conquered succesfully before. I don't know why it
    could never be as "important" as "unlimited" Trials... I guess just
    because it is kind of like a subset of "unlimited Trials"? I do believe
    it may have the potential to be better received than "unlimited Trials"
    by the general public because it has a lot of speed, steep
    ascents/descents, jumps, and has skinnies (like "unlimited" Trials)...
    which if filmed properly may be seen as more extreme than "unlimited"
    Trials.

    --
    HardcoreCokerRider - Skateparks, MTB & Urban Insanity
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  8. johnfoss said:

    *For that reason, it will probably never be quite as important as
    "unlimited" Trials. *


    "Unlimited" trials will probably alwasy be the crème de la crème but I
    can see "rolling" trials more inclusive, especially for those that can't
    (or don't) do the big ups, grabs, and drops.

    Even beginners like riding simple teeters, ramps, balance beams, etc.

    Fortunately (or unforutantely) HardcoreCokerRider is already setting a
    standard.

    --
    UniBrier - Its Time to Ride

    Steve

    Do your feet smell? Does you nose run?...You may be built upside down.
    -Old joke I found in a Mad Magazine many moons ago.

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  9. HardcoreCokerRider said:

    *In my opinion, a single hop would be ok, but multiple (intentional)
    hops would be cause for DQ... but this is something that definitely
    needs further thought.
    *

    To me, the criteria would be pretty straightforward, and the key factor
    would be momentum. Rolling hops, where you are already in motion and
    are hopping to maintain or adjust that motion, would be okay. Static
    hops...i.e. starting from a stillstand...would be DQ. So the "adjust"
    element would cover things like direction changes in the midst of a
    rolling line, for example riding up a quarter pipe until your momentum
    stalls, then doing a 120 degree hop to ride down the face of a
    neighboring ramp to finish off the section. Something like that would
    work in that setup you previously posted photos of...with the three
    different quarter-pipe ramps all next to each other with a catwalk on
    top.

    --
    tomblackwood - Registered Nurtz

    Tailgate at your own risk.....

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  10. i think tom might have a good idea there. i was thinking(before reading
    his post) that any intentional hops would be DQ. but then how does one
    distinguish between an intentional rolling hop and simply getting some
    air off the lip of a jump/obstacle? i think rolling hops should be
    allowed. anything else would be a DQ. and if you ever have an event like
    this in the midwest, or if i move to near where you have an event i'd
    love to help out.

    --
    markf - movie nerd

    stuck in iowa and unemployed.
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  11. DQ for a hop is a seems a little harsh if done unintentional. You dont
    want people to intentionally hop through it though and take the negitive
    points though. Something like repeated hops then a DQ seems better. I
    know if I tryed this that I would hopped just out of instinct and get
    DQ. I would be [censored].

    --
    Tim - Jelly Bean Eater

    Tim 'Braun' (http://www.tim.com.mk/izdanija/1/189.jpg)|| ||Do you read
    my posts in RSU?

    Jagur's my main man.

    I can not stand ChangingLINKS.com
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  12. I'm seeing many similarities with the bouldering sport of rock
    climbing.

    Bouldering is a very free part of climbing, you climb without a harness,
    ropes and so on, many people boulder as a warmup. in bouldering there is
    often very spectacular moves, since the problems are made to be really
    hard, testening strengt balance and flexibility. You often boulder in
    pair, one climbing, and the other standing under to catch the climber if
    he falls, and you often have a crashpad to.

    But anyway, let's come to the point now.

    In boulderingcontests, there often are +50 problems, each with a grade
    of dificulty, and a amount of points rewarded to the climber that makes
    is, with a sign from a judge or so to proof oyu actually climbed it.
    However, a contest last for a couple of hours, you could go there when
    it starts, and climb your balls of for the next couple of hours to when
    the bell rings. Or, you could simply go chillin', watching climbers,
    having a really nice time, climb some problems.

    When the contest has ended, each climber hands in his/hers scorecard,
    and there usualy is a break for fun (or to keep climbing) while counting
    points and so on.

    The best part with this is, that everyone can be a part of the contest,
    from children to real masters of climbing.
    There usualy is several contests in the event, like most points, most
    problems done, hardest problem solved, and so on. It there is a draw
    between 2 climbers, there usualy is some small contest to choose the
    winner. For example, hanging the longest time in a certain grip in one
    hand only.

    Anyway, the point is, that i think thease rules could be adapted to
    unicycle, to make everyone come together, learn from each other, and a
    little event, for everyone to enjoy.

    Edit: Sorry for the lack of knowledge in english, writing this text.

    --
    lleberg - Level 4 unicyclist

    I <3 my unicycle!
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  13. lleberg,

    I believe Kris drew on his experience with the sport of rock climbing
    (pretty much as you described it above) when he came up with the
    original unicycle observed trials competition rules (the observed trials
    rules still in the current IUF and USA competition rules books). He has
    been modifying the rules based on experience gained in actual unicycle
    observed trials competitions over the past five years.

    Tom Daniels

    --
    tadaniels - USA President
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  14. This sounds really cool. I like everything that andrew said exept for
    the bonus points-kind of dumb. I think momentum shopuld be only part of
    it. not only does it take momentum to get up/over a lot of NShore style
    stuff it also takes very good balance and braking. 'Rolling trials'
    could include things like skinnies and manmade rock gardens. What would
    be reallty cool would be a big air contest. Use a jump and a limbo stick
    style apparatus and see who can make it the higest w/o hopping. I look
    forward to see more 'Rolling Trials'

    --
    DK - level 11 unicyclist

    -Hunter-

    'HCOR.net' (http://www.hcor.net)

    "A unicycle rides like ~~~~ so you would be slinging your banana through
    the air which might actually increase air resistance." -Klaas Bil

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  15. UniBrier said:

    *"Unlimited" trials will probably alwasy be the crème de la crème but
    I can see "rolling" trials more inclusive, especially for those that
    can't (or don't) do the big ups, grabs, and drops.

    Even beginners like riding simple teeters, ramps, balance beams, etc.*

    I can see Rolling Trials (36" class) being a very prestigious subset of
    Trials because:

    * The size of the wheel and seat height makes it visually appealing.
    * The extremely fast entry speed needed to blaze up various obstacles
    should be fun to watch (especially with really cool camera angles, which
    I haven't had filmed in my riding, yet)
    * It's fast (unlike unlimited Trials which is usually quite slow), it's
    extreme, and there should be plenty of cool wipe-outs for high drama.

    Your comments about beginners, is quite true... Rolling Trials (26"
    Class and the 28"/29" Class) would be accessible to all levels of
    riders, would be a great way to build riding skills, and is loads of
    fun!

    Quoted message said:

    -Originally posted by tomblackwood-
    *To me, the criteria would be pretty straightforward, and the key
    factor would be momentum. Rolling hops, where you are already in
    motion and are hopping to maintain or adjust that motion, would be
    okay. Static hops...i.e. starting from a stillstand...would be DQ. So
    the "adjust" element would cover things like direction changes in the
    midst of a rolling line, for example riding up a quarter pipe until
    your momentum stalls, then doing a 120 degree hop to ride down the
    face of a neighboring ramp to finish off the section. Something like
    that would work in that setup you previously posted photos of...with
    the three different quarter-pipe ramps all next to each other with a
    catwalk on top.*

    I think you are correct about rolling hops and I agree 100%. I propose
    that rolling hops are officially designated as acceptable/allowed in the
    new sport of "Rolling Trials." Excellent, insightful observation, Tom...
    thanks for your contribution to the development of this sport.

    Quoted message said:

    -Originally posted by tomblackwood-
    *i think tom might have a good idea there. i was thinking (before
    reading his post) that any intentional hops would be DQ. but then how
    does one distinguish between an intentional rolling hop and simply
    getting some air off the lip of a jump/obstacle? i think rolling hops
    should be allowed. anything else would be a DQ. and if you ever have
    an event like this in the midwest, or if i move to near where you have
    an event i'd love to help out..*

    I'm glad you are also in agreement re/rolling hops. I don't want to be
    too harsh on even stationary hopping, either though. This sport is
    intended to be dominated by rolling, but I don't believe that a minor
    amount of hopping would be problematic... as long as rolling is always
    the primary and dominant method of completing Sections. Thus I would
    suggest that stationary (or static) hops are allowed up to 3 consecutive
    hops. You must roll after the third hop... if you hop a fourth time,
    then it is a DQ. No rider will be able to come anywhere close to being
    able to complete a section in three consecutive hops (thus, it couldn't
    be the primary method for completing a Section) and by allowing the
    three hops it may enable some riders to use the three hops to their
    advantage for balance or perhaps other reasons as well. What do you
    think about the 3-hop rule? I'd love to work with you on a "Rolling
    Trials" event somewhere... that would be awesome!

    Quoted message said:

    -Originally posted by Tim-
    *DQ for a hop is a seems a little harsh if done unintentional. You
    dont want people to intentionally hop through it though and take the
    negitive points though. Something like repeated hops then a DQ seems
    better. I know if I tryed this that I would hopped just out of
    instinct and get DQ. I would be [censored]...*

    I think my 3-hop rule (mentioned in my previous response directly above
    this one) addresses your concern. What do you think? Thank you very much
    for your input.

    Quoted message said:

    -Originally posted by DK-
    *This sounds really cool. I like everything that andrew said exept for
    the bonus points-kind of dumb. I think momentum shopuld be only part
    of it. not only does it take momentum to get up/over a lot of NShore
    style stuff it also takes very good balance and braking. 'Rolling
    trials' could include things like skinnies and manmade rock gardens.
    What would be reallty cool would be a big air contest. Use a jump and
    a limbo stick style apparatus and see who can make it the higest w/o
    hopping. I look forward to see more 'Rolling Trials'...*

    Thanks a lot, DK... I think a lot of people would REALLY enjoy this
    event... and it definitely takes a lot more than momentum... but if you
    wanna get over the BIG stuff, you gotta have a Coker... and you gotta
    have momentum as a basic requirement... without it you won't have a
    chance to test all your other skills because you won't make it to apex.
    The jump contest would be cool, too... but that's a totally different
    competition that I'll save for another thread. I think the "Bonus
    Points" idea is kind of cool because it enables riders who are super
    confident in their ability to complete a Section to narrow a lead, if
    they can pull it off in that one single attempt (they have to forfeit
    their other two attempts if they go for the Bonus Points). I think it
    coud add even more excitement and drama to an already exciting event.
    Perhaps you are right and it's not the best idea, though. What do the
    other members of the forum think of my "Bonus Points" idea? I hope I
    described my "Bonus Points" idea accurately (earlier in this thread) so
    that you can evaluate the idea fairly. I would appreciate comments from
    members of the forum on why they think my "Bonus Points" idea is a good
    idea or a bad idea, rather than just saying something like "kind of
    dumb," although if most of you think that it is just simply a "dumb
    idea," I guess that's possible, too... and I can live with that. What is
    your opinion?

    --
    HardcoreCokerRider - Skateparks, MTB & Urban Insanity
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  16. HCR-
    i think depending on how you enforce it, the three consecutive hops
    thing might be a little too easy. not that you could trials style hop on
    a coker anyway, but suppose you could roll up the hardest part of a
    section, hop around/over/whatever something with three hops, then roll a
    short ways and hop 3 more times to clear the rest of it. I would propose
    ammending your idea to include three non-rolling hops per section. but
    you're the superior coker rider so maybe you should make the rules as
    you see fit then test them.

    --
    markf - movie nerd

    stuck in iowa and unemployed.
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  17. johnfoss said:

    *You would have to get a clear way to identify what counts as a hop,
    because at some point you have to declare a DQ or dismount. That's
    just a matter of choosing the appropriate definition. *


    is it feasible to treat hops in the same way 'dabs' are treated in
    other trials events?

    --
    GILD - Waffle-[censored] and Time-bider

    if you can't say anything good about someone, sit right here by me.--
    alice 'roosevelt' (http://tinyurl.com/5ngze) longworth
    I feel like a fugitive from the law of averages.-- William H.
    Mauldin
    'NAMASTE!' (http://tinyurl.com/4qcxw)
    'Dave' (http://tinyurl.com/ywxgb)
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  18. markf said:

    *HCR-
    i think depending on how you enforce it, the three consecutive hops
    thing might be a little too easy. not that you could trials style hop
    on a coker anyway, but suppose you could roll up the hardest part of a
    section, hop around/over/whatever something with three hops, then roll
    a short ways and hop 3 more times to clear the rest of it. I would
    propose ammending your idea to include three non-rolling hops per
    section. but you're the superior coker rider so maybe you should make
    the rules as you see fit then test them. *

    You bring up a verg good point... I actually had a similar concern upon
    further thought after my last post (prior to reading your post). I don't
    think it would be much of a concern in the Coker (36"😉 wheel size class,
    but I want to make sure that this new sport works equally well for all
    wheel sizes (though I think the smallest allowable wheel size class
    should be 26"😉, and the issue you bring up could be problematic in the
    non-Coker class wheel sizes. I think your solution is a pretty good
    idea... believe it or not I came up with that same idea (upon further
    reflection), as well, once I realized the problem with the initial idea
    of simply making more than 3 consecutive hops the basis for DQ... so
    we're definitely thinking alike!!! I think it's a pretty good solution
    to the problem and perhaps maybe even the best possible solution, but
    the members of the forum have been very insightful and helpful so far,
    so I'd like to gather some other ideas (if anyone has any), that you may
    feel works even better. If no forum members are able to come up with a
    better solution (rather quickly... I don't want this to drag on too long
    and we can always amend the rules later if necessary, although I do want
    to nail down a good set of solid rules right from the onset that
    everyone is satisfied with). If no other idea is proposed that the forum
    members collectively view as superior, than my recommendation is to
    adopt the three-hop per Section rule.... which I think works pretty
    well. Any comments, feedback, ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thank
    you very much, Mark, for your contribution to the formation of the rules
    for Rolling Trials. I don't want to make the rules on my own... I want
    to adopt rules that everyone (or at least the majority) of forum members
    are happy with... that makes the sport work for all wheel sizes (26" and
    above, in my opinion). I'd also love to get some feedback on my idea for
    "Bonus Points' (although I hate the name "Bonus Points"... so if the
    majority of you guys like the concept, I'm sure John Foss or someone
    else will come up with a much cooler name!) Anyway, the concept was
    intended to make the competition more exciting, with greater chances for
    a close match and turn-arounds and such... any feedback on the concept
    would be most appreciated.

    Quoted message said:

    -Originally posted by GILD-
    *is it feasible to treat hops in the same way 'dabs' are treated in
    other trials events?*

    I'm not too familiar with trials, so I don't know what 'dabs' are, but
    I'd love to find out so that I can see if it makes sense (in my opinion)
    for Rolling Trials. Thank you very much for your input.

    --
    HardcoreCokerRider - Skateparks, MTB & Urban Insanity
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  19. HardcoreCokerRider said:

    *I'm not too familiar with trials, so I don't know what 'dabs' are,
    but I'd love to find out so that I can see if it makes sense (in my
    opinion) for Rolling Trials. *


    as far as my (mainly TV originated) knowledge of trials go, 'DABS'
    describes the act of taking your foot briefly off the pedals to restore
    balance by 'dabbing' it on the ground
    since this isn't quite in the spirit of the endeavour, they are counted
    and used (against u) in the scoring system

    i'm hoping a more informed trialist will jump in here with a more
    definitive definition?

    --
    GILD - Waffle-[censored] and Time-bider

    if you can't say anything good about someone, sit right here by me.--
    alice 'roosevelt' (http://tinyurl.com/5ngze) longworth
    I feel like a fugitive from the law of averages.-- William H.
    Mauldin
    'NAMASTE!' (http://tinyurl.com/4qcxw)
    'Dave' (http://tinyurl.com/ywxgb)
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  20. I did not read all the above so excuse me if I'm repeating something
    that was already suggested.

    I don't like the 3-hops idea because then you are very close to regular
    Trials. Call it Rolling Trials and then allowing sets of 3 hops kind of
    defeats the purpose.

    I would count hops as dabs. This allows riders to put in a hop if they
    need it to get through, but with a pretty serious penalty. Also it
    doesn't DQ you to hop. Of course, the lines will be built with rolling
    in mind, so they should be rollable (though not easily).

    Since my friends and I have been challenging ourselves to roll through
    difficult stuff for years, I can picture what I would expect. The other
    hard part would be building/designing the lines. But regular Trials
    lines are hard to set up too. I think that's half the fun for some of
    us.

    --
    johnfoss - Walkin' on the edge

    John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
    "jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com

    "Read the rules!" -- 'IUF Rulebook'
    (http://www.unicycling.org/iuf/rulebook/) -- 'USA Rulebook'
    (http://www.unicycling.org/usa/competition/)
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