New wheelset or just rims?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Ken Prager, Mar 15, 2004.

  1. Ken Prager

    Ken Prager Guest

    The Mavic 517's on my beloved Marin Team Issue won't stay
    true anymore and the LBS says they are ready to go. One
    mechanic says to just use the old hubs (circa 1998 XTR) and
    another says buy a new wheelset.

    I'd appreciate it is some of you could offer advice.
    Also, opinions on rims/wheelsets are also welcome. (I'm
    5'9", 145 lbs.)

    Thanks in advance,

    Ken P.

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  2. Cipher

    Cipher New Member

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    Give us a little history on their use/abuse, mileage etc.
     
  3. daveornee

    daveornee New Member

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    I say go with new rims only.
    There are many choices out there.
    Mavic 618 is the same rim size but has a socket per spoke that connects the inner and outer rim walls.
    F519 is a little sturdier and close enough in ERD to use the same spokes.
    For some choices, look for rims within 1 mm of the same ERD as the 517. One table for comparison is:
    http://sheldonbrown.com/rinard/spocalc.xls
    XC717 is the new generation 517
    XM719 and XM819 are the new generation choices that you should check, but make sure ERDs are a match. I don't have the rims or the charts for these new generation to know what the ERDs are.
    Most shops charge about $100 to $125 per wheel for a rebuild. The price includes the price of the rim.
     
  4. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    Ken Prager wrote:

    > The Mavic 517's on my beloved Marin Team Issue won't stay
    > true anymore and the LBS says they are ready to go. One
    > mechanic says to just use the old hubs (circa 1998 XTR)
    > and another says buy a new wheelset.
    >
    > I'd appreciate it is some of you could offer advice. Also,
    > opinions on rims/wheelsets are also welcome. (I'm 5'9",
    > 145 lbs.)

    If you can still get those rims -- just get another pair,
    and swap them in, using the old hubs, spokes, and all. If
    you have aluminum nipples, you should probably get new ones
    (brass this time).

    I'll let Jobst tell you why this is preferable to all-new.

    Matt O.
     
  5. Jeffbonny

    Jeffbonny Guest

    So daveornee <[email protected]> says:

    > > The Mavic 517's on my beloved Marin Team Issue won't
    > > stay true anymore and the LBS says they are ready to
    > > go. One mechanic says to just use the old hubs (circa
    > > 1998 XTR) and another says buy a new wheelset. I'd
    > > appreciate it is some of you could offer advice. Also,
    > > opinions on rims/wheelsets are also welcome. (I'm 5'9",
    > > 145 lbs.) Thanks in advance, Ken P.

    Lemme get this straight. You wanna shelve perfectly good
    hubs (assuming they are) because yer rims are done? I bet
    the guy trying to sell you on a new wheelset is looking for
    some used hubs.

    jeffb
     
  6. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "Ken Prager" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > The Mavic 517's on my beloved Marin Team Issue won't stay
    > true anymore and the LBS says they are ready to go. One
    > mechanic says to just use the old hubs (circa 1998 XTR)
    > and another says buy a new wheelset.
    >
    > I'd appreciate it is some of you could offer advice. Also,
    > opinions on rims/wheelsets are also welcome. (I'm 5'9",
    > 145 lbs.)

    The easiest/cheapest way to go is to buy some rims with the
    same effective diameter (probably another set of Mavics), &
    reuse the old hubs & spokes. Unless they have been damaged
    (worn races or nicked spokes), they should outlast several
    rims. I'm not a great wheel builder by any means, but I can
    swap a rim in about an hour -- it's not hard.
     
  7. Ken Prager

    Ken Prager Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Cipher <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Ken Prager wrote:
    > > The Mavic 517's on my beloved Marin Team Issue won't
    > > stay true anymore and the LBS says they are ready to
    > > go. One mechanic says to just use the old hubs (circa
    > > 1998 XTR) and another says buy a new wheelset. I'd
    > > appreciate it is some of you could offer advice. Also,
    > > opinions on rims/wheelsets are also welcome. (I'm
    > > 5'9", 145 lbs.) Thanks in advance, Ken P.
    >
    >
    >
    > Give us a little history on their use/abuse, mileage etc.

    That bike probably gets ridden 1000 miles per year so it has
    maybe 5000 miles on it. I tend to use it on less technical
    terrain (although it has been to Moab and Downieville),
    saving the tough stuff for my full suspension bike. I race
    with it a few times a year.

    TIA,

    Ken P.

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  8. prager-<< The Mavic 517's on my beloved Marin Team Issue
    won't stay true anymore and the LBS says they are ready to
    go. One mechanic says to just use the old hubs (circa 1998
    XTR) and another says buy a new wheelset. >><BR><BR>

    Why chuck these really nice hubs?? The second wrench ought
    to be ashamed unless he can't build wheels....

    Look at Velocity Synergy with an offcenter rear and use the
    first guy to rebuild them.

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
    Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali
    costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  9. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:12:56 -0800, Ken Prager <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >The Mavic 517's on my beloved Marin Team Issue won't stay
    >true anymore and the LBS says they are ready to go. One
    >mechanic says to just use the old hubs (circa 1998 XTR) and
    >another says buy a new wheelset.
    >
    >I'd appreciate it is some of you could offer advice. Also,
    >opinions on rims/wheelsets are also welcome. (I'm 5'9",
    >145 lbs.)
    >
    >Thanks in advance,

    If they were my wheels, I'd undo the spoke nipples until
    1 thread was visible. I'd put in truing stand and see
    how badly the wheel was out of true radially and
    laterally. If the wheel rolled ok, I'd build it back
    with the proper tension. If the rim was wobbly, I'd
    change the rim. It doesn't appear that anything is wrong
    with your hub or spokes.
     
  10. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    "jeffbonny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > So daveornee <[email protected]> says:
    >
    > > > The Mavic 517's on my beloved Marin Team Issue won't
    > > > stay true
    anymore
    > > > and the LBS says they are ready to go. One mechanic
    > > > says to just use
    the
    > > > old hubs (circa 1998 XTR) and another says buy a new
    > > > wheelset. I'd appreciate it is some of you could
    > > > offer advice. Also, opinions
    on
    > > > rims/wheelsets are also welcome. (I'm 5'9", 145 lbs.)
    > > > Thanks in advance, Ken P.
    >
    > Lemme get this straight. You wanna shelve perfectly good
    > hubs (assuming they are) because yer rims are done? I bet
    > the guy trying to sell you on a new wheelset is looking
    > for some used hubs.
    >
    > jeffb

    Probably a good guess: "hey! whatcha gonna do with them thar
    XTR hubs?? I really could use a pair..."

    I used to get lots of stuff from guys upgrading. I never
    sold anyone anything just to get their old stuff, but then
    I'm just like that.

    Mike
     
  11. Mseries

    Mseries Guest

    Ken Prager wrote:
    > The Mavic 517's on my beloved Marin Team Issue won't stay
    > true anymore and the LBS says they are ready to go. One
    > mechanic says to just use the old hubs (circa 1998 XTR)
    > and another says buy a new wheelset.
    >
    > I'd appreciate it is some of you could offer advice. Also,
    > opinions on rims/wheelsets are also welcome. (I'm 5'9",
    > 145 lbs.)
    >
    > Thanks in advance,
    >
    > Ken P.

    If there is nothing wrong with the hubs, save the planet and
    reuse them.
     
  12. In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] says...
    >The Mavic 517's on my beloved Marin Team Issue won't stay
    >true anymore and the LBS says they are ready to go. One
    >mechanic says to just use the old hubs (circa 1998 XTR) and
    >another says buy a new wheelset.
    >
    >I'd appreciate it is some of you could offer advice. Also,
    >opinions on rims/wheelsets are also welcome. (I'm 5'9",
    >145 lbs.)

    Rims that won't stay true is not a sign or rims that need
    replacing. It is a sign of a wheelbuilder that needs to
    be replaced. Nothing wrong with re-using an old hub that
    is still in good condition. Just keep the lacing pattern
    the same to match the small indentations the spokes made
    on the hub.
    -----------
    Alex
     
  13. Ken Prager

    Ken Prager Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Paul Kopit <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:12:56 -0800, Ken Prager
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >The Mavic 517's on my beloved Marin Team Issue won't stay
    > >true anymore and the LBS says they are ready to go. One
    > >mechanic says to just use the old hubs (circa 1998 XTR)
    > >and another says buy a new wheelset.
    > >
    > >I'd appreciate it is some of you could offer advice.
    > >Also, opinions on rims/wheelsets are also welcome. (I'm
    > >5'9", 145 lbs.)
    > >
    > >Thanks in advance,
    >
    > If they were my wheels, I'd undo the spoke nipples until
    > 1 thread was visible. I'd put in truing stand and see
    > how badly the wheel was out of true radially and
    > laterally. If the wheel rolled ok, I'd build it back
    > with the proper tension. If the rim was wobbly, I'd
    > change the rim. It doesn't appear that anything is wrong
    > with your hub or spokes.

    The current rims are bulging where the spokes enter. The
    mechanic says more will start to bulge and then some of the
    spokes will start to pop out.

    KP

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  14. Ken Prager

    Ken Prager Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    jeffbonny <[email protected]> wrote:

    > So daveornee <[email protected]> says:
    >
    > > > The Mavic 517's on my beloved Marin Team Issue won't
    > > > stay true anymore and the LBS says they are ready to
    > > > go. One mechanic says to just use the old hubs (circa
    > > > 1998 XTR) and another says buy a new wheelset. I'd
    > > > appreciate it is some of you could offer advice.
    > > > Also, opinions on rims/wheelsets are also welcome.
    > > > (I'm 5'9", 145 lbs.) Thanks in advance, Ken P.
    >
    > Lemme get this straight. You wanna shelve perfectly good
    > hubs (assuming they are) because yer rims are done? I bet
    > the guy trying to sell you on a new wheelset is looking
    > for some used hubs.
    >
    > jeffb

    Actually, he was trying to convince me to buy something
    like CrossMax.

    I really wasn't going for that but did want to check in and
    make sure that re-using my current hubs is sane.

    Thanks,

    KP

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  15. Cipher

    Cipher New Member

    Joined:
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    I guess one would never take into consideration the possibility that the cones could have been screwed on too far/tight, exerting pressure on the ball bearings and cups for prolonged periods of time. (This of course has no detrimental effects on the cups at all and there for would never be considered...)
     
  16. Jeffbonny

    Jeffbonny Guest

    So Cipher <[email protected]> says:

    >Qui Si Parla Ca wrote:
    > > Why chuck these really nice hubs?? Peter Chisholm
    > > Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO,
    > > 80302
    > > (303)440-3535
    > > http://www.vecchios.com/http://www.vecchios.com
    > > "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente
    > > bene"
    >
    >
    >
    >I guess one would never take into consideration the
    >possibility that the cones could have been screwed on too
    >far/tight, exerting pressure on the ball bearings and cups
    >for prolonged periods of time. (This of course has no
    >detrimental effects on the cups at all and there for would
    >never be considered...)

    HUH? Well if you rode poorly adjusted hubs and trashed 'em
    why the hell didn't you say so? Or are you "what if-ing"
    just to further confuse anyone that might be trying to
    answer yer question?

    Here ya go pal: If it's broke fix it, if it's trashed
    replace it, if it ain't broke use it up.

    jeffb
     
  17. Jeffbonny

    Jeffbonny Guest

    So Cipher <[email protected]> says:

    >Qui Si Parla Ca wrote:
    > > Why chuck these really nice hubs?? Peter Chisholm
    > > Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO,
    > > 80302
    > > (303)440-3535
    > > http://www.vecchios.com/http://www.vecchios.com
    > > "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente
    > > bene"
    >
    >
    >
    >I guess one would never take into consideration the
    >possibility that the cones could have been screwed on too
    >far/tight, exerting pressure on the ball bearings and cups
    >for prolonged periods of time. (This of course has no
    >detrimental effects on the cups at all and there for would
    >never be considered...)

    HUH? Well if you rode poorly adjusted hubs and trashed 'em
    why the hell didn't you say so? Or are you "what if-ing"
    just to further confuse anyone that might be trying to
    answer yer question?

    Here ya go pal: If it's broke fix it, if it's trashed
    replace it, if it ain't broke use it up.

    jeffb
     
  18. Cipher

    Cipher New Member

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    Maybe my first bike... (Cut me some slack, I was only 7 years old at the time!!!) :D
     
  19. Ken Prager <[email protected]> writes:

    >The Mavic 517's on my beloved Marin Team Issue won't stay
    >true anymore and the LBS says they are ready to go.

    What the heck does he mean "They won't stay true anymore". I
    have only had a single pair of rims that wouldn't stay true,
    and these were heat-treated rims. Once they bent, they NEVER
    got true again, because they were just too darned stiff.
    Assuming your rims are normal raw aluminum or anodized
    aluminum, it should always be possible to pull them true. If
    not, you can always cut off all the spokes and jump on the
    rim till it's flat (don't laugh, i've done this before.)

    i'm thinking that maybe you need either

    1. new spoke prep, plus re-true
    2. new set of nipples + spoke prep, plus re-true.

    Since option #2 is probably about $3 more expensive than
    option #1, i'd go with option #2.

    - Don Gillies San Diego, CA
     
  20. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Donald Gillies writes:

    >> The Mavic 517's on my beloved Marin Team Issue won't stay
    >> true anymore and the LBS says they are ready to go.

    Well that's basically BS unless they showed you cracks or
    kinks from crashing.

    > What the heck does he mean "They won't stay true anymore".
    > I have only had a single pair of rims that wouldn't stay
    > true, and these were heat-treated rims. Once they bent,
    > they NEVER got true again, because they were just too
    > darned stiff.

    No matter how much you heat treat aluminum or work harden
    it, it's elasticity does not change. I suspect the
    wheelbuilder who made the assessment you express had no idea
    of how to true a wobbly wheel, or for that matter, what to
    do if a rim gets a non-fatal wow in it. This has nothing to
    do with heat treatment.

    > Assuming your rims are normal raw aluminum or anodized
    > aluminum, it should always be possible to pull them true.
    > If not, you can always cut off all the spokes and jump on
    > the rim till it's flat (don't laugh, i've done this
    > before.)

    Ooooh! That hurts. I see you don't understand wheel truing.
    THAT is not the way it is done to any reasonable effect and
    it's a huge waste of good spokes. Where do you get these
    notions. It sounds so macho however.

    > I'm thinking that maybe you need either

    > 1. new spoke prep, plus re-true
    > 2. new set of nipples + spoke prep, plus re-true.

    > Since option #2 is probably about $3 more expensive than
    > option #1, i'd go with option #2.

    Both suggestions should go into the trash bin.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected]
     
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