No receipt returns

elyob said:

Hi, on my last tour round Normandy my rack gave up on both sides with
the welds completely giving up and also introduced my previously
unused panniers to my back wheel.

Popped into Evans with a shed load of receipts and they couldn't find
the one with the rack out of the ones. So, obviously, they are
refusing to help with the replacement of said rack. I was wondering
whether, without a receipt, I still have some rights that I could
take.
Anyway, this is the second rack to go, both aluminium and both went
in same place. Okay it gets a little bit of pothole hitting, but I'm
not carrying undue weight. Anyone able to recommend a decent and
strong rack that won't collapse within 5 minutes of starting my next
tour?
p.s. Evans will now get boycotted due to their ar**hole attitude.
They were reluctant to even look at their own machine to see if the
rack was listed. W%!#&!* .

Did you pay with cash/card? If you've got a statement detailing 'Evans' and
the correct amount then you're in a better position!

elyob said:

Popped into Evans with a shed load of receipts and they couldn't find the
one with the rack out of the ones. So, obviously, they are refusing to help
with the replacement of said rack. I was wondering whether, without a
receipt, I still have some rights that I could take.

Possibly back at the manufacturer, but with no proof you bought it from
Evans then it's difficult to see how you'll pin any requirement of
action on them. And at the manufacturer level you have no real proof of
age or the item, so again not so good.

This is one reason I like small shops where the folk know me in person...

Quoted message said:

Anyway, this is the second rack to go, both aluminium and both went in same
place. Okay it gets a little bit of pothole hitting, but I'm not carrying
undue weight. Anyone able to recommend a decent and strong rack that won't
collapse within 5 minutes of starting my next tour?

Tubus steel ones seem to be favoured by those with Serious Reliability
in mind. No personal experience though.

Quoted message said:

p.s. Evans will now get boycotted due to their ar**hole attitude. They were
reluctant to even look at their own machine to see if the rack was listed.
W%!#&!* .

Well, quite.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

elyob said:

Hi, on my last tour round Normandy my rack gave up on both sides with the
welds completely giving up and also introduced my previously unused panniers
to my back wheel.

I'm sure this is of no help to you now, but when I had a weld fail on a
pannier rack (one side only) I was able to use a small Jubilee clip to
hold it together for the rest of the tour.

elyob said the following on 12/07/2006 12:13:

Quoted message said:

Anyway, this is the second rack to go, both aluminium and both went in same
place. Okay it gets a little bit of pothole hitting, but I'm not carrying
undue weight. Anyone able to recommend a decent and strong rack that won't
collapse within 5 minutes of starting my next tour?

You don't say which brand you are already using, but I've always used
Blackburn racks and they have never failed. The ones on my tourer
(front and rear) have had some heavy loads, and I used to have a rear
rack on an MTB years ago which also had heavy loads, used off-road.

Of course, if you're already using Blackburn racks and it is one of
those that's failed, I'll shut up!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

elyob said:

Popped into Evans with a shed load of receipts and they couldn't find the
one with the rack out of the ones. So, obviously, they are refusing to
help with the replacement of said rack. I was wondering whether, without
a receipt, I still have some rights that I could take.

Possibly back at the manufacturer, but with no proof you bought it from
Evans then it's difficult to see how you'll pin any requirement of action
on them. And at the manufacturer level you have no real proof of age or
the item, so again not so good.

This is one reason I like small shops where the folk know me in person...

Just spoke to the young lad at Evans, pointing out that the shed load of
receipts did at least prove that I used them a lot and for a £20 rack they
are going to lose a lot of business in the future from me.

A quick companies house check shows Tor Tec (rack manufacturer) as
dissolved.

Peter Clinch said:

elyob said:

Anyway, this is the second rack to go, both aluminium and both went in same
place. Okay it gets a little bit of pothole hitting, but I'm not carrying
undue weight. Anyone able to recommend a decent and strong rack that won't
collapse within 5 minutes of starting my next tour?

Tubus steel ones seem to be favoured by those with Serious Reliability
in mind. No personal experience though.

I have a tubus steel one on the trice and it hasn't broken. But I've
never managed to break any rack, not even the alloy one on my utility
commuter bike that has occasionally been horribly overloaded.

The tubus does seem properly and relianbly put together. It's very
solid feeling. The only slight downside is that where the panniers
rub they wear off the powder-coating, and round the edges of the
worn-away patch it goes slightly rusty (the middle of the patch stays
nicely polished).

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

"Mike K Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

elyob said:

Hi, on my last tour round Normandy my rack gave up on both sides with the
welds completely giving up and also introduced my previously unused
panniers to my back wheel.

I'm sure this is of no help to you now, but when I had a weld fail on a
pannier rack (one side only) I was able to use a small Jubilee clip to
hold it together for the rest of the tour.

Fortunately someone here had recommended some velcro straps from ebay a
while back. I had left a couple on my bike and they came to the rescue. I
might go and buy a load more.

elyob said:

Hi, on my last tour round Normandy my rack gave up on both sides with the
welds completely giving up and also introduced my previously unused panniers
to my back wheel.

Popped into Evans with a shed load of receipts and they couldn't find the
one with the rack out of the ones. So, obviously, they are refusing to help
with the replacement of said rack. I was wondering whether, without a
receipt, I still have some rights that I could take.

Anyway, this is the second rack to go, both aluminium and both went in same
place. Okay it gets a little bit of pothole hitting, but I'm not carrying
undue weight. Anyone able to recommend a decent and strong rack that won't
collapse within 5 minutes of starting my next tour?

p.s. Evans will now get boycotted due to their ar**hole attitude. They were
reluctant to even look at their own machine to see if the rack was listed.
W%!#&!* .

Hi, I've been lurking on this group for a while; have a look at the DTI
website which advises you on your rights. A useful fact sheet is here:

http://www.dti.gov.uk/consumers/Fact%20Sheets/page24700.html

faq No. 7 should help you a bit.

I had a weld on a Tortec rack fail after about 18 months (commuting use)
so I would not recommend them. I have replaced it with a Topeak Super
Tourist but have only had it for a couple of months which is not long
enough to tell whether it is more durable.

Good Luck

Charlie

elyob said:

So, obviously, they are
refusing to help with the replacement of said rack. I was wondering
whether, without a receipt, I still have some rights that I could
take.

You do not need a reciept to return goods under the sale of goods act
1979, however it is not unreasonable for the shop to ask for some proof of
purchase. Do you have a credit card reciept for the right amount and the
right time? or a cheque stub? or is this particular rack only available at
Evans?

If you don't want to go down the "small claims court" route, I would take
the broken rack back to the store on a Saturday morning while the shop is
busy and start showing it to people until you get thrown out. Then I'd start
stopping people entering the shop to show them your broken rack until the
police arrive.

I did this to a store a few years ago, and they quickly decided to give me
a refund.

Tom
--
Return address is dead. Real address is at
http://toomanybikes.com/address.jpg

"Charlie Allen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hi, I've been lurking on this group for a while; have a look at the DTI
website which advises you on your rights. A useful fact sheet is here:

http://www.dti.gov.uk/consumers/Fact%20Sheets/page24700.html

faq No. 7 should help you a bit.

I had a weld on a Tortec rack fail after about 18 months (commuting use)
so I would not recommend them. I have replaced it with a Topeak Super
Tourist but have only had it for a couple of months which is not long
enough to tell whether it is more durable.

Good Luck

Charlie, welcome and hello!

I'm printing that little baby off right now. And will highlight the obvious
bits and will be back into Evans in person this afternoon. Will have a look
through my bank statements too and highlight anything with Evans on.

"Tom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

elyob said:

So, obviously, they are
refusing to help with the replacement of said rack. I was wondering
whether, without a receipt, I still have some rights that I could
take.

You do not need a reciept to return goods under the sale of goods act
1979, however it is not unreasonable for the shop to ask for some proof of
purchase. Do you have a credit card reciept for the right amount and the
right time? or a cheque stub? or is this particular rack only available
at Evans?

If you don't want to go down the "small claims court" route, I would take
the broken rack back to the store on a Saturday morning while the shop is
busy and start showing it to people until you get thrown out. Then I'd
start stopping people entering the shop to show them your broken rack
until the police arrive.

I did this to a store a few years ago, and they quickly decided to give
me a refund.

I'm quite enjoying the thought of doing this 🙂 How about my pannier that
got broken due to the failure of my rack. Is it unreasonable to ask for
compensation for the repair or replacement of this. If their rack failed,
then they should be responsible for the outcome of this? If I'd broken by
arm after coming off, I'd surely be taking them to court for this?

elyob said:

Hi, on my last tour round Normandy my rack gave up on both sides with
the welds completely giving up and also introduced my previously
unused panniers to my back wheel.

Popped into Evans with a shed load of receipts and they couldn't find
the one with the rack out of the ones. So, obviously, they are
refusing to help with the replacement of said rack. I was wondering
whether, without a receipt, I still have some rights that I could
take.

The Sale of Good Act doesn't require you to keep the receipt, as far as I
remember. As it's a civil matter, you don't need proof beyond reasonable
doubt that you bought the item from the shop. A Small Claims court would
just have to believe that it's more probable than not that you are being
honest. So if you /could/ sue (I'm not suggesting you do for such a small
matter), the shop should refund you.

What do Evans think the chance of a regular customer trying to con them
out of a few quid is? Send a demand in writing to the Manager of the shop
and the Managing Director of Evans.

~PB, with a rack held together at the rear by cable ties

Mike K Smith said:

elyob said:

Hi, on my last tour round Normandy my rack gave up on both sides with
the welds completely giving up and also introduced my previously
unused panniers to my back wheel.

I'm sure this is of no help to you now, but when I had a weld fail on a
pannier rack (one side only) I was able to use a small Jubilee clip to
hold it together for the rest of the tour.

Or my favourite get out of trouble things to carry. Cable ties. One
held my rack together for 12 months.

--chris

A quick update r.e. Ev*ns. Just been back, and spoke to the manager. I tried
to be reasonable, pointing out the bit that says "No receipt required" in
the Sales of Goods Act. He still couldn't find it on his computer and
refused saying he needed someway of tying it with the purchase of the exact
good (this is what I call a till receipt - and I don't require one). I
offered to go through my bank statements which I'd brought in a big folder.
"Where would you like me to do this?" As they were quite busy. "I'd prefer
it if you weren't here" came the response. There were plenty of rude things
said by the manager, which he finished off with "Sir" as if to make them
less rude. Anyway, I found a purchase for around £60 from this time last
year which he didn't have on his computer and said "well, that's proof your
computer doesn't have all the data". He still refused saying I needed a
receipt or on his computer. "Would you like to re-read that paragraph in the
SoGA?" - "You can read it to me all day if you like". Anyway, I'm going to
write to the managing director of this shambles of a shop, maybe copy in the
local trading standards office.

At the end of the day, I will not be returning and will ALWAYS recommend
people to avoid them.

All this over a twenty quid rack FFS. (Oh, and I'll be claiming a new set of
panniers when it goes to small claims).

elyob said:

All this over a twenty quid rack FFS. (Oh, and I'll be claiming a new set of
panniers when it goes to small claims).

Typically, small claims don't get to Small Claims, because people have a
remarkable ability to See Light /just/ before the appointment is made...

Let us home that's the case here.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"elyob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A quick update r.e. Ev*ns. Just been back, and spoke to the manager. I
tried to be reasonable, pointing out the bit that says "No receipt
required" in the Sales of Goods Act.

OMG! Even worse, just spoke to the head office. "The manager has already
called me and he has told me the rack was incorrectly fitted". Huh? I'm not
sure *how* a rack can be incorrectly fitted. He didn't mention this to me in
either of my visits. You'd have thought that would be something he'd like to
have shared with me.

The rack is level, it's screwed into the bolt holes that are on the frame
for a rack. He took a 1 second glance only at one side of the rack where it
has broken, and didn't look at how it was attached. These lot are all a
bunch of criminals. Off to take some photos. Then a letter to the managing
director, then a follow up to small claims court I guess. Is anyone able to
give an indepent view on how I have fitted my rack?

Thanks

photos : http://snipurl.com/bikerack

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

elyob said:

All this over a twenty quid rack FFS. (Oh, and I'll be claiming a new set
of panniers when it goes to small claims).

Typically, small claims don't get to Small Claims, because people have a
remarkable ability to See Light /just/ before the appointment is made...

Let us home that's the case here.

The only problem is that it'll cost me £30. The rack is £20. But the
panniers are probably worth £80. If it doesn't make it, then I doubt they'll
offer to pay my costs.

elyob said:

"elyob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A quick update r.e. Ev*ns. Just been back, and spoke to the manager. I
tried to be reasonable, pointing out the bit that says "No receipt
required" in the Sales of Goods Act.

OMG! Even worse, just spoke to the head office. "The manager has already
called me and he has told me the rack was incorrectly fitted".

....

Quoted message said:

then a follow up to small claims court I guess. Is anyone able to
give an indepent view on how I have fitted my rack?

Well, I'd say you've fitted it oddly, but the frame dropout is odd and
the way you've fitted it will not have affected the failure.

I've never put a rack with the legs going inside the frame, but from
the looks of the broken-free rack leg, it wasn't straining to get to
outside of the frame. So, it's not credible to me that the
installation has affected the failure.

Make sure the letter mentions that you're intent on taking it to small
claims court. Start recording all aggro (each trip to bike shop, each
phone call, all time spent on teh matter) now, and include the list
with each correspondence.

As an aside:

I bought some SPD pedals and shoes from Evans in Woking once. One
pedal was broken in the box - the innards were jammed so when you
loosened the tensioning screw it just screwed out of the pedal while
leaving the tension at maximum. Took it in to Evans and woman behind
the counter took it out the back to the workshop then came back and
said it was fine. I asked that the oracle in the workshop come out
and show me how to adjust the tension then. She went away, she came
back and said the oracle declined to show its face to unbelievers.
After loud discussion, she gave me my money back as a 'gesture of
goodwill', all the while refusing to believe that there was
anything wrong with the little screw coming out of one pedal but not
the other. Or maybe they refused to believe it did so, despite me
demonstrating it in the shop.

Within two weeks, the stitching on one of the shoes started to
unravel and the uppers were disintegrating down the side of the
lace-holes. Took them back to Evans, and they declined to give me a
refund because they were water-stained where I'd obviosuly ridden them
in the rain, or through a puddle or something. Again, it took very
loud discussion but eventually I obtained a refund.

Neither fault was a fault due to Evans - they were Shimano pedals, and
Specialized shoes - but their handling of the faults was diabolical.

That purchase was long ago (might even be 10 years) and I haven't used
any Evans since, which is a shame because prior to that I got good
service (and a very nice light tourer built to spec for my wife) from
their The Cut, Waterloo branch.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

elyob said:

"elyob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A quick update r.e. Ev*ns. Just been back, and spoke to the manager. I
tried to be reasonable, pointing out the bit that says "No receipt
required" in the Sales of Goods Act.

OMG! Even worse, just spoke to the head office. "The manager has already
called me and he has told me the rack was incorrectly fitted". Huh? I'm not
sure *how* a rack can be incorrectly fitted. He didn't mention this to me in
either of my visits. You'd have thought that would be something he'd like to
have shared with me.

The rack is level, it's screwed into the bolt holes that are on the frame
for a rack. He took a 1 second glance only at one side of the rack where it
has broken, and didn't look at how it was attached. These lot are all a
bunch of criminals. Off to take some photos. Then a letter to the managing
director, then a follow up to small claims court I guess. Is anyone able to
give an indepent view on how I have fitted my rack?

The only thing which stands out as unusual from the pics is that the
lower left attachment has been made inside the dropout. Unusual does not
necessarily mean incorrect, and given there is a disk mount on the
frame, it is not at all unreasonable - especially if mounting it on the
other side would cause it to rub on the disk mount. The pannier mounts
look to be in a perfectly reasonable position too.

Something which is quite usual, and definitely more likely to be
involved in a problem than which side of the dropout you use is that the
rack does look a little slanted forwards in the pic. This may be an
optical illusion, but if it isn't and the rack is adjusted as far back
as it can be, then blaming the angle of fitting is tantamount to
admitting the rack as sold is not fit for purpose on your bike.

I think you have a case, but given how many racks I have seen of this
design broken in this way I get the idea that not enough people pursue
their case enough to get manufacturers to change the design to avoid
this type of problem.

--

JimP

" " - John Cage