Opinions on Klein Mantra....



J

jfizer

Guest
I just purchased my second Klein Mantra (a 2000) after my last got
stollen a few years ago (a 1997). People I've talked to seem to either
love or hate these bikes and I was wondering why that is.
 
jfizer wrote:
> I just purchased my second Klein Mantra (a 2000) after my last got
> stollen a few years ago (a 1997). People I've talked to seem to either
> love or hate these bikes and I was wondering why that is.

Two words, one issue: stink bug. (Probably one word; too lazy to look up.)

Kleins are gorgeous bikes (I own a roadie), but the Mantra is a dangerous
design IMO. I suppose you can tweak the geometry with a stem and seatpost
and such, but it's still way too endo-prone for technical riding (again,
IMO).

Bill "but they sure is purty" S.
 
<jfizer> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I just purchased my second Klein Mantra (a 2000) after my last got
> stollen a few years ago (a 1997). People I've talked to seem to either
> love or hate these bikes and I was wondering why that is.

Most people just don't like a URT (unified Rear Triangle) for a rear
suspension design. It was great when it first came out but there are so
many better designs now. The biggest issue with the URT is that the entire
rear half of the bike including the rider is supported by the pivot. So, if
you're sitting down, then the suspension will be active but when you stand
up the forces from trail impacts are transferred to your legs rather than
the suspension so a URT could be thought of as a "quasi" full suspension
since it's activeness depends entirely on your position. The problem, of
course, is that for most descending the rider is not seated so you really
aren't getting the most of the suspension with the URT while going downhill
and standing.

Michael "Sorni used to have a URT" Paul
 
Michael Paul wrote:
> <jfizer> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I just purchased my second Klein Mantra (a 2000) after my last got
>> stollen a few years ago (a 1997). People I've talked to seem to
>> either love or hate these bikes and I was wondering why that is.
>
> Most people just don't like a URT (unified Rear Triangle) for a rear
> suspension design. It was great when it first came out but there are
> so many better designs now. The biggest issue with the URT is that
> the entire rear half of the bike including the rider is supported by
> the pivot. So, if you're sitting down, then the suspension will be
> active but when you stand up the forces from trail impacts are
> transferred to your legs rather than the suspension so a URT could be
> thought of as a "quasi" full suspension since it's activeness depends
> entirely on your position. The problem, of course, is that for most
> descending the rider is not seated so you really aren't getting the
> most of the suspension with the URT while going downhill and standing.
>
> Michael "Sorni used to have a URT" Paul

True, but I don't think /all/ URTs are as stink-buggy as the Mantra.
("Praying Mantra"?!?) The Catamount, for all its shortcomings, wasn't super
endoey (at least as I recall); the mid-frame pivot position probably helped
in that regard.

Bill "Ben bashed his chicklets in up in Tahoe on his Mantra; never rode it
again" S.
 
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:15:50 GMT, "S o r n i"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>jfizer wrote:
>> I just purchased my second Klein Mantra (a 2000) after my last got
>> stollen a few years ago (a 1997). People I've talked to seem to either
>> love or hate these bikes and I was wondering why that is.
>
>Two words, one issue: stink bug. (Probably one word; too lazy to look up.)
>
>Kleins are gorgeous bikes (I own a roadie), but the Mantra is a dangerous
>design IMO. I suppose you can tweak the geometry with a stem and seatpost
>and such, but it's still way too endo-prone for technical riding (again,
>IMO).
>
>Bill "but they sure is purty" S.
>

So your complaint is that the bike isn't good at what it wasn't
designed to do? This is not a down hill bike. It was never designed to
be one. It is what Klein calls an "exploration" bike. In fact they
state in the manual that it is not intended for down hill or technical
riding. I tend to do distance riding and I find many bikes to be much
more of a pain then the Mantra when going up hill or along ridges.
 
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:32:00 GMT, "Michael Paul"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
><jfizer> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> I just purchased my second Klein Mantra (a 2000) after my last got
>> stollen a few years ago (a 1997). People I've talked to seem to either
>> love or hate these bikes and I was wondering why that is.
>
>Most people just don't like a URT (unified Rear Triangle) for a rear
>suspension design. It was great when it first came out but there are so
>many better designs now. The biggest issue with the URT is that the entire
>rear half of the bike including the rider is supported by the pivot. So, if
>you're sitting down, then the suspension will be active but when you stand
>up the forces from trail impacts are transferred to your legs rather than
>the suspension so a URT could be thought of as a "quasi" full suspension
>since it's activeness depends entirely on your position. The problem, of
>course, is that for most descending the rider is not seated so you really
>aren't getting the most of the suspension with the URT while going downhill
>and standing.
>
>Michael "Sorni used to have a URT" Paul
>

I agree that in general the newer designes are better then the URT.
However of the URT designs I find hte Mantra to be far better then (as
an example) the Trek Ys due to the position of the pivot being in
front of the rider rather then under or behind. Also, as I said in
another post, the Mantra was not designed or sold as a down hill bike.
It is more for distance riding over rough terain.
 
<jfizer> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I just purchased my second Klein Mantra (a 2000) after my last got
> stollen a few years ago (a 1997). People I've talked to seem to either
> love or hate these bikes and I was wondering why that is.

Well, Klein is still in business and they no longer makes them.

What do they know?

--
DTW .../\.../\.../\...

I've spent most of my money on mountain biking and windsurfing.
The rest I've just wasted.
 
jfizer wrote:

> So your complaint is that the bike isn't good at what it wasn't
> designed to do? This is not a down hill bike. It was never designed to
> be one. It is what Klein calls an "exploration" bike. In fact they
> state in the manual that it is not intended for down hill or technical
> riding. I tend to do distance riding and I find many bikes to be much
> more of a pain then the Mantra when going up hill or along ridges.

"exploration" bike? Not intended for down hill or technical riding?
Does this imply you explore alleyways, bike paths, sidewalks, and such?
Nothing against the bike, but that seems like a pretty stupid statement.
Technical is certainly in the eye of the beholder, if this bike is not
ment for technical riding, why does it come as a full suspension?
I would be hard pressed in my neighborhood (as I suspect many others
would be) to not have to ride downhill during the course of any ride.

I really wonder if Klein had this statement when the first bike came out
or it is something they added when they realized it had this stink-bug
problem, and from my limited experience on the bike 5 years ago in
Fruita, it did. Of course I was using the brakes as I was going downhill :)

--
Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado
(remove ".nospam" to reply)
 
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:22:20 -0700, jfizer wrote:

> So your complaint is that the bike isn't good at what it wasn't
> designed to do? This is not a down hill bike. It was never designed to
> be one. It is what Klein calls an "exploration" bike. In fact they
> state in the manual that it is not intended for down hill or technical
> riding. I tend to do distance riding and I find many bikes to be much
> more of a pain then the Mantra when going up hill or along ridges.

If you're 'going up hill' then surely you're going to have to come down
the other side too? Unless you've found some Escheresque mountain...

--
a.m-b FAQ: http://www.j-harris.net/bike/ambfaq.htm

a.bmx FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/bmx_faq.htm
 
true - I own one (model 1998) before couple of years and I succesfully finish many marathons on this
bike...but through the time I become to ride more and more technical tracks and races and my
satisfaction with the Mantra was smaller and smaller, so I sold Mantra and bought Morati 1.3
(hardtail titanium bike - www.morati.com )
I think Mantra is great bike for long distance turistic/recreation riding on dirt roads and
non-technical tracks, but not for racing...
Actually, I think it's one of the lightest full-suspension bikes ever...depending of components, of
course...
Sgt Pepper



<jfizer> píse v diskusním príspevku news:eek:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:32:00 GMT, "Michael Paul"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> ><jfizer> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >> I just purchased my second Klein Mantra (a 2000) after my last got
> >> stollen a few years ago (a 1997). People I've talked to seem to either
> >> love or hate these bikes and I was wondering why that is.
> >
> >Most people just don't like a URT (unified Rear Triangle) for a rear
> >suspension design. It was great when it first came out but there are so
> >many better designs now. The biggest issue with the URT is that the entire
> >rear half of the bike including the rider is supported by the pivot. So, if
> >you're sitting down, then the suspension will be active but when you stand
> >up the forces from trail impacts are transferred to your legs rather than
> >the suspension so a URT could be thought of as a "quasi" full suspension
> >since it's activeness depends entirely on your position. The problem, of
> >course, is that for most descending the rider is not seated so you really
> >aren't getting the most of the suspension with the URT while going downhill
> >and standing.
> >
> >Michael "Sorni used to have a URT" Paul
> >
>
> I agree that in general the newer designes are better then the URT.
> However of the URT designs I find hte Mantra to be far better then (as
> an example) the Trek Ys due to the position of the pivot being in
> front of the rider rather then under or behind. Also, as I said in
> another post, the Mantra was not designed or sold as a down hill bike.
> It is more for distance riding over rough terain.
 
oh, yes, it's me on my actual bike :)
http://www.turist.cz/mysteryteam/sumava/Foto2002jaro/vanthor16.jpg



"Sgt Pepper" <[email protected]> pí¹e v diskusním pøíspìvku news:[email protected]...
> true - I own one (model 1998) before couple of years and I succesfully finish many marathons on
this
> bike...but through the time I become to ride more and more technical tracks and races and my
> satisfaction with the Mantra was smaller and smaller, so I sold Mantra and bought Morati 1.3
> (hardtail titanium bike - www.morati.com )
> I think Mantra is great bike for long distance turistic/recreation riding on dirt roads and
> non-technical tracks, but not for racing...
> Actually, I think it's one of the lightest full-suspension bikes ever...depending of components,
of
> course...
> Sgt Pepper
>
>
>
> <jfizer> píse v diskusním príspevku news:eek:[email protected]...
> > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:32:00 GMT, "Michael Paul"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > ><jfizer> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > >> I just purchased my second Klein Mantra (a 2000) after my last got
> > >> stollen a few years ago (a 1997). People I've talked to seem to either
> > >> love or hate these bikes and I was wondering why that is.
> > >
> > >Most people just don't like a URT (unified Rear Triangle) for a rear
> > >suspension design. It was great when it first came out but there are so
> > >many better designs now. The biggest issue with the URT is that the entire
> > >rear half of the bike including the rider is supported by the pivot. So, if
> > >you're sitting down, then the suspension will be active but when you stand
> > >up the forces from trail impacts are transferred to your legs rather than
> > >the suspension so a URT could be thought of as a "quasi" full suspension
> > >since it's activeness depends entirely on your position. The problem, of
> > >course, is that for most descending the rider is not seated so you really
> > >aren't getting the most of the suspension with the URT while going downhill
> > >and standing.
> > >
> > >Michael "Sorni used to have a URT" Paul
> > >
> >
> > I agree that in general the newer designes are better then the URT.
> > However of the URT designs I find hte Mantra to be far better then (as
> > an example) the Trek Ys due to the position of the pivot being in
> > front of the rider rather then under or behind. Also, as I said in
> > another post, the Mantra was not designed or sold as a down hill bike.
> > It is more for distance riding over rough terain.
>
>
 
"bomba" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:p[email protected]...
> On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:22:20 -0700, jfizer wrote:
>
> > So your complaint is that the bike isn't good at what it wasn't
> > designed to do? This is not a down hill bike. It was never designed to
> > be one. It is what Klein calls an "exploration" bike. In fact they
> > state in the manual that it is not intended for down hill or technical
> > riding. I tend to do distance riding and I find many bikes to be much
> > more of a pain then the Mantra when going up hill or along ridges.
>
> If you're 'going up hill' then surely you're going to have to come down
> the other side too? Unless you've found some Escheresque mountain...
>

I think you'll find that the earth is in fact round. If you wait for the
earth to rotate you should be able to ensure you always ride downhill or
uphill depending on preference.

Steve.
 
Hey, where's the rest of you?

--
- Zilla
Cary, NC
(Remove XSPAM)


"Sgt Pepper" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> oh, yes, it's me on my actual bike :)
> http://www.turist.cz/mysteryteam/sumava/Foto2002jaro/vanthor16.jpg
>
>
>
> "Sgt Pepper" <[email protected]> pí¹e v diskusním pøíspìvku
news:[email protected]...
> > true - I own one (model 1998) before couple of years and I succesfully
finish many marathons on
> this
> > bike...but through the time I become to ride more and more technical
tracks and races and my
> > satisfaction with the Mantra was smaller and smaller, so I sold Mantra
and bought Morati 1.3
> > (hardtail titanium bike - www.morati.com )
> > I think Mantra is great bike for long distance turistic/recreation
riding on dirt roads and
> > non-technical tracks, but not for racing...
> > Actually, I think it's one of the lightest full-suspension bikes
ever...depending of components,
> of
> > course...
> > Sgt Pepper
> >
> >
> >
> > <jfizer> píse v diskusním príspevku
news:eek:[email protected]...
> > > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:32:00 GMT, "Michael Paul"
> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > ><jfizer> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > > >> I just purchased my second Klein Mantra (a 2000) after my last got
> > > >> stollen a few years ago (a 1997). People I've talked to seem to
either
> > > >> love or hate these bikes and I was wondering why that is.
> > > >
> > > >Most people just don't like a URT (unified Rear Triangle) for a rear
> > > >suspension design. It was great when it first came out but there are
so
> > > >many better designs now. The biggest issue with the URT is that the
entire
> > > >rear half of the bike including the rider is supported by the pivot.
So, if
> > > >you're sitting down, then the suspension will be active but when you
stand
> > > >up the forces from trail impacts are transferred to your legs rather
than
> > > >the suspension so a URT could be thought of as a "quasi" full
suspension
> > > >since it's activeness depends entirely on your position. The
problem, of
> > > >course, is that for most descending the rider is not seated so you
really
> > > >aren't getting the most of the suspension with the URT while going
downhill
> > > >and standing.
> > > >
> > > >Michael "Sorni used to have a URT" Paul
> > > >
> > >
> > > I agree that in general the newer designes are better then the URT.
> > > However of the URT designs I find hte Mantra to be far better then (as
> > > an example) the Trek Ys due to the position of the pivot being in
> > > front of the rider rather then under or behind. Also, as I said in
> > > another post, the Mantra was not designed or sold as a down hill bike.
> > > It is more for distance riding over rough terain.
> >
> >
>
>
 
rest of...what? rest of me? :)
Sgt Pepper

"Zilla" <[email protected]> pí¹e v diskusním pøíspìvku
news:[email protected]...
> Hey, where's the rest of you?
>
> --
> - Zilla
> Cary, NC
> (Remove XSPAM)
>
>
> "Sgt Pepper" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > oh, yes, it's me on my actual bike :)
> > http://www.turist.cz/mysteryteam/sumava/Foto2002jaro/vanthor16.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> > "Sgt Pepper" <[email protected]> pí¹e v diskusním pøíspìvku
> news:[email protected]...
> > > true - I own one (model 1998) before couple of years and I succesfully
> finish many marathons on
> > this
> > > bike...but through the time I become to ride more and more technical
> tracks and races and my
> > > satisfaction with the Mantra was smaller and smaller, so I sold Mantra
> and bought Morati 1.3
> > > (hardtail titanium bike - www.morati.com )
> > > I think Mantra is great bike for long distance turistic/recreation
> riding on dirt roads and
> > > non-technical tracks, but not for racing...
> > > Actually, I think it's one of the lightest full-suspension bikes
> ever...depending of components,
> > of
> > > course...
> > > Sgt Pepper
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > <jfizer> píse v diskusním príspevku
> news:eek:[email protected]...
> > > > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:32:00 GMT, "Michael Paul"
> > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > ><jfizer> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > > > >> I just purchased my second Klein Mantra (a 2000) after my last got
> > > > >> stollen a few years ago (a 1997). People I've talked to seem to
> either
> > > > >> love or hate these bikes and I was wondering why that is.
> > > > >
> > > > >Most people just don't like a URT (unified Rear Triangle) for a rear
> > > > >suspension design. It was great when it first came out but there are
> so
> > > > >many better designs now. The biggest issue with the URT is that the
> entire
> > > > >rear half of the bike including the rider is supported by the pivot.
> So, if
> > > > >you're sitting down, then the suspension will be active but when you
> stand
> > > > >up the forces from trail impacts are transferred to your legs rather
> than
> > > > >the suspension so a URT could be thought of as a "quasi" full
> suspension
> > > > >since it's activeness depends entirely on your position. The
> problem, of
> > > > >course, is that for most descending the rider is not seated so you
> really
> > > > >aren't getting the most of the suspension with the URT while going
> downhill
> > > > >and standing.
> > > > >
> > > > >Michael "Sorni used to have a URT" Paul
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I agree that in general the newer designes are better then the URT.
> > > > However of the URT designs I find hte Mantra to be far better then (as
> > > > an example) the Trek Ys due to the position of the pivot being in
> > > > front of the rider rather then under or behind. Also, as I said in
> > > > another post, the Mantra was not designed or sold as a down hill bike.
> > > > It is more for distance riding over rough terain.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
 
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:07:57 +0200, "Sgt Pepper" <[email protected]> wrote:

>true - I own one (model 1998) before couple of years and I succesfully finish many marathons on this
>bike...but through the time I become to ride more and more technical tracks and races and my
>satisfaction with the Mantra was smaller and smaller, so I sold Mantra and bought Morati 1.3
>(hardtail titanium bike - www.morati.com )
>I think Mantra is great bike for long distance turistic/recreation riding on dirt roads and
>non-technical tracks, but not for racing...
>Actually, I think it's one of the lightest full-suspension bikes ever...depending of components, of
>course...
>Sgt Pepper
>
>
>

If I could have afforded a Morati I may have gotten one, but I's just
a poor little software/network engineer. For most of the trails/roads
around Marin county the Mantra does very well, or at least my old '97
did and I expect my "new" '00 to do as well or better.

<snip>
 
jfizer wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I just purchased my second Klein Mantra (a 2000) after my last got
> stollen a few years ago (a 1997). People I've talked to seem to either
> love or hate these bikes and I was wondering why that is.

Asking this newsgroup for post-purchase approval is just plain lame.
The mantra is a stinkbugging POS.

JD
 
On 17 Jun 2004 11:04:12 -0700, [email protected] (JD) wrote:

>jfizer wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>> I just purchased my second Klein Mantra (a 2000) after my last got
>> stollen a few years ago (a 1997). People I've talked to seem to either
>> love or hate these bikes and I was wondering why that is.
>
>Asking this newsgroup for post-purchase approval is just plain lame.
>The mantra is a stinkbugging POS.
>
>JD

Not looking for aproval as I allready like the bike, its well suited
for how I ride. I was just wondring what people hav against them,
which seems to be that it performs poorly when doing things it was not
designed to do. If thats the only complaint then its a non issue for
me.
 
jfizer wrote:
> On 17 Jun 2004 11:04:12 -0700, [email protected] (JD) wrote:

>> Asking this newsgroup for post-purchase approval is just plain lame.
>> The mantra is a stinkbugging POS.
>>

> Not looking for aproval as I allready like the bike, its well suited
> for how I ride. I was just wondring what people hav against them,
> which seems to be that it performs poorly when doing things it was not
> designed to do. If thats the only complaint then its a non issue for
> me.


Where do you get this "not designed to do" stuff? A big part of /any/ XC FS
bike is handling technical descents (as opposed to "downhill runs"). The
Mantra doesn't do this very well...period. (Neither do I, but that's a
separate issue.)

Bill "go ride your bike already" S.
 
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 19:02:58 GMT, "S o r n i"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>jfizer wrote:
>> On 17 Jun 2004 11:04:12 -0700, [email protected] (JD) wrote:
>
>>> Asking this newsgroup for post-purchase approval is just plain lame.
>>> The mantra is a stinkbugging POS.
>>>
>
>> Not looking for aproval as I allready like the bike, its well suited
>> for how I ride. I was just wondring what people hav against them,
>> which seems to be that it performs poorly when doing things it was not
>> designed to do. If thats the only complaint then its a non issue for
>> me.
>
>
>Where do you get this "not designed to do" stuff? A big part of /any/ XC FS
>bike is handling technical descents (as opposed to "downhill runs"). The
>Mantra doesn't do this very well...period. (Neither do I, but that's a
>separate issue.)
>
>Bill "go ride your bike already" S.
>

I "get this" from the 1997 Klein Mantra users manual. I dont have it
in front of me so I cant give exact quotes.
 
jfizer wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I just purchased my second Klein Mantra (a 2000) after my last got
> stollen a few years ago (a 1997). People I've talked to seem to either
> love or hate these bikes and I was wondering why that is.

Three words:

URT.

HTH, HAND.
--
Jonesy
 
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