OT Any HTML gurus ?

[Richard Bates]

Not totally off topic:

For my next tour i want to be able to publish a webpage
which will satisfy a couple of requirements.

1) I want it refer to data (directly on the same page: not
as a link) from an externall html page.

More specifically I want the following structure:

my own text

imported text+jpgs from external page whose URL will
change daily

more of my own text

2nd imported page, again changing daily

more of my own text

I would prefer something that doesn't require frames since
the rest of my site does not use them. (I'm not very clever
with html and am cheating by using net-objects-fusion). When
I do my daily webpage update en-route I will have access to
only a text editor, so the simpler the better.

2) Is there such a thing as a for-next loop in html?
Something along the lines of:

for n=1 to 100 display an image next n

Thanks for any help.

Love and html from Rich x

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[Alan J. Wylie]

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:32:11 +0000, Richard Bates <[email protected]> said:

> Not totally off topic: For my next tour i want to be able
> to publish a webpage which will satisfy a couple of
> requirements.

> 1) I want it refer to data (directly on the same page: not
> as a link) from an externall html page.

Images are always links.

> More specifically I want the following structure:

> my own text

> imported text+jpgs from external page whose URL will
> change daily

> more of my own text

> 2nd imported page, again changing daily

> more of my own text

> I would prefer something that doesn't require frames
> since the rest of my site does not use them. (I'm not
> very clever with html and am cheating by using net-objects-
> fusion). When I do my daily webpage update en-route I
> will have access to only a text editor, so the simpler
> the better.

> 2) Is there such a thing as a for-next loop in html?
> Something along the lines of:

> for n=1 to 100 display an image next n

Not in HTML, but it is possible, server side, in a scripting
language. Where is your web page hosted? Do they support PHP
or Perl CGI (or M$ ASP)?

There are ISPs that do provide such a service - a quick
google turns up a list at http://www.od-site.com/php/

That would be one way to do it - dynamically generate the
HTML based on a template, with just one variable pointing to
the external web site that needs changing daily.

Cutting and pasting small amounts of text from an external
web site would be tricky.

Embedding the contents of an external web page can be done
in PHP using the include() function.

--
Alan J. Wylie http://www.wylie.me.uk/ "Perfection [in
design] is achieved not when there is nothing left to add,
but rather when there is nothing left to take away." --
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

 

[Richard Bates]

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:30:17 +0000, in
<[email protected]>, [email protected] (Alan J. Wylie)
wrote:

>On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:32:11 +0000, Richard Bates
><[email protected]> said:
>
>> Not totally off topic: For my next tour i want to be able
>> to publish a webpage which will satisfy a couple of
>> requirements.
>
>> 1) I want it refer to data (directly on the same page:
>> not as a link) from an externall html page.
>
>Images are always links.

Thanks for replying.

But what about if I want to seamlessly include a WHOLE page
- not just an image. What I meant was that I want the whole
of the external page (actually an OS map from the OS site)
to appear "in-line" on my own page without the user having
to "click here" to see it.

The format of URL used by OS seems to include the X and Y
coordinates
(e.g.http://getamap.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/jsp/map_print.jsp?-
mapX=407277&mapY=294782&zoomLevel=6&isNI=&mapAction=zo-
omabs&isGeo=y)

If I could simply "suck in" the whole of the OS generated
page then it would then be a simple task to edit my html in
a text editor and simply change the coordinates in the URL
each day based on what i see on my paper OS map.

The problem with refering to the image alone is that the
URL for that does not seem to be generated logically (I
won't be able to provide a valid URL just by looking at my
paper OS map)

>> 2) Is there such a thing as a for-next loop in html?
>> Something along the lines of:
>
>> for n=1 to 100 display an image next n
>
>Not in HTML, but it is possible, server side, in a
>scripting language. Where is your web page hosted? Do they
>support PHP or Perl CGI (or M$ ASP)?

Hmm, shame, I can just about get my head around html. I
think php/cgi and similar is beyond me.

Looks like I'll be cutting and pasting instead of
using a loop.

Thanks again,

Rich x'
--
DISCLAIMER: My email box is private property.Email which
appears in my inbox is mine to do what I like with. Anything
which is sent to me (whether intended or not) may, if I so
desire, form a legal and binding contract.

 

[Ian G Batten]

In article <[email protected]>,
Richard Bates <[email protected]> wrote:
> But what about if I want to seamlessly include a WHOLE
> page - not just

You can't do that with HTML without using a frameset. You
can't meaningfully do it even with fancy server-side
stuff (php or cgi could do it, but you'd need to strip
the everything apart from what's inside the
<BODY>...</BODY> section.

> an image. What I meant was that I want the whole of the
> external page (actually an OS map from the OS site) to
> appear "in-line" on my own page without the user having to
> "click here" to see it.

Frames. Sorry.

ian

 

[Ambrose Nankive]

In news:[email protected],
Ian G Batten <[email protected]> typed:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Richard Bates
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> But what about if I want to seamlessly include a WHOLE
>> page - not just
>
> You can't do that with HTML without using a frameset. You
> can't meaningfully do it even with fancy server-side stuff
> (php or cgi could do it, but you'd need to strip the
> everything apart from what's inside the <BODY>...</BODY>
> section.
>
>> an image. What I meant was that I want the whole of the
>> external page (actually an OS map from the OS site) to
>> appear "in-line" on my own page without the user having
>> to "click here" to see it.
>
> Frames. Sorry.
>

Or iframes should do it without the overhead of frames, but
only viewable on more recent computers. Sorry, I can't give
examples, but you should be able to search on iframe and
find out how.

A

 

[Richard Bates]

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:25:54 -0000, in
<[email protected]>, "Ambrose Nankivell"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Or iframes should do it without the overhead of frames, but
>only viewable on more recent computers. Sorry, I can't give
>examples, but you should be able to search on iframe and
>find out how.

Looks like it might be suitable (both for the page design
and my brain!).

Thanks.

--
DISCLAIMER: My email box is private property.Email which
appears in my inbox is mine to do what I like with. Anything
which is sent to me (whether intended or not) may, if I so
desire, form a legal and binding contract.

 

[davek]

Richard Bates wrote:
>But what about if I want to seamlessly include a WHOLE page - not just an image. What I meant was that I want the whole of the external page (actually an OS map from the OS site) to appear "in-line" on my own page without the user having to "click here" to see it.

Several reasons why you shouldn't do that, even if you could.

For a start, "hotlinking" to an image on another site steals the other site's bandwidth - probably won't matter too much if it's a personal site linking to a big commercial site like the OS, but still not The Done Thing. Besides, many sites, such as Hotmail, actually have measures in place to prevent hotlinking.

Secondly, if the address of the image on the OS site changes or the page is removed, it will leave you with a broken link on your page.

IMO, the best way to do what you want to do is to take a screen grab of the page on the OS site (press the 'print screen' button while looking at the page then paste the results into image editing software such as photoshop) and save it as a jpeg which you can then use on your own web page.

The third reason why you shouldn't do any of the above is copyright, but that's between you and your conscience.

 

[davek]

Ambrose Nankivell wrote:
>Sorry, I can't give examples, but you should be able to search on iframe and
find out how.

This Webmonkey tutorial should help:
http://tinyurl.com/26chy

d.

 

[Richard Bates]

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:17:05 GMT, in
<[email protected]>, davek
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Several reasons why you shouldn't do that, even if
>you could.

>For a start, "hotlinking" to an image on another site
>steals the other site's bandwidth - probably won't matter
>too much if it's a personal site linking to a big
>commercial site like the OS, but still not The Done Thing.
>Besides, many sites, such as Hotmail, actually have
>measures in place to prevent hotlinking.

Yes. I had thought of that but had also incorrectly thought
that OS allowed hotlinking. This doesn't cause me a problem
though, as streetmap.co.uk do specifically allow hotlinking.
The only downside is readers of my page will have to suffer
a few adverts :-( Still you don't get anything for nothing
in this world.

>Secondly, if the address of the image on the OS site
>changes or the page is removed, it will leave you with a
>broken link on your page.

I will be updating the webpage daily with a new URL to the
OS^H^H streetmap site, so this shouldn't be an issue. I
agree with you that if I wanted to display the same image
day after day then it may be better to host the image on my
own webspace (although again, in this case it is not allowed
by streetmap (OS DO allow this).

>The third reason why you shouldn't do any of the above is
>copyright, but that's between you and your conscience.

And also between me and the OS/Streetmap terms and
conditions publshed on their respective sites.

Thanks for the reply.
--
DISCLAIMER: My email box is private property.Email which
appears in my inbox is mine to do what I like with. Anything
which is sent to me (whether intended or not) may, if I so
desire, form a legal and binding contract.

 

[Richard Bates]

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:32:11 +0000, in
<[email protected]>, Richard Bates
<[email protected]> wrote:

Thanks to everyone who has replied. I think the final
verdict is to go with frames or iframes and put up with the
fact that it is out of context with the rest of the site.

I can cope with an odd looking page for 6 weeks!

Love and dot com from Rich x

--
DISCLAIMER: My email box is private property.Email which
appears in my inbox is mine to do what I like with. Anything
which is sent to me (whether intended or not) may, if I so
desire, form a legal and binding contract.

 

[James Annan]

Simon Brooke wrote:

> Hotlinking is by definition not a breach of copyright. You
> don't make a copy, merely refer the user to the original,
> which is published by people who presumably do own the
> copyright.
>

I remember a convoluted legal case involving two Scottish
newspapers on this sort of thing. I don't recall the
conclusion though...

James

 

[Gawnsoft]

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:54:18 +0900, James Annan
<[email protected]> wrote (more or less):

>Simon Brooke wrote:
>
>
>> Hotlinking is by definition not a breach of copyright.
>> You don't make a copy, merely refer the user to the
>> original, which is published by people who presumably do
>> own the copyright.
>>
>
>I remember a convoluted legal case involving two Scottish
>newspapers on this sort of thing. I don't recall the
>conclusion though...

Hotlinking in that case was declared an infringement of
copyright. The hotlinking paper was ordered to desist.

(The newspapers concerned were in Shetland.) Cheers, Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr Symbian/Epoc wiki:
http://html.dnsalias.net:1122 Smalltalk links (harvested
from comp.lang.smalltalk)
http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

 

[Gawnsoft]

On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:58:42 +0000, Gawnsoft
<[email protected]> wrote (more or
less):

>On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:54:18 +0900, James Annan
><[email protected]> wrote (more or less):
>
>>Simon Brooke wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hotlinking is by definition not a breach of copyright.
>>> You don't make a copy, merely refer the user to the
>>> original, which is published by people who presumably do
>>> own the copyright.
>>>
>>
>>I remember a convoluted legal case involving two Scottish
>>newspapers on this sort of thing. I don't recall the
>>conclusion though...
>
>Hotlinking in that case was declared an infringement of
>copyright. The hotlinking paper was ordered to desist.

Though as a test case, it was never fully definitive - the
court ruled against the hotlinker in an interim interdict,
and the hotlinker then settled out of court before the
events concluded.

Cheers, Euan Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122 Smalltalk
links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk)
http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

 

[Bens]

On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:58:42 +0000, Gawnsoft
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:54:18 +0900, James Annan
><[email protected]> wrote (more or less):
>
>>Simon Brooke wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hotlinking is by definition not a breach of copyright.
>>> You don't make a copy, merely refer the user to the
>>> original, which is published by people who presumably do
>>> own the copyright.
>>>
>>
>>I remember a convoluted legal case involving two Scottish
>>newspapers on this sort of thing. I don't recall the
>>conclusion though...
>
>Hotlinking in that case was declared an infringement of
>copyright. The hotlinking paper was ordered to desist.

The general rule that came out of it and similar cases was
that linking other sites content into a frame and passing it
off as your own was a breach of copyright.

Linking with a normal link and going to their site or having
it appear in a frame on your own but clearly displayed as
external content was ok.
--
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