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Cycling Equipment
Published
4 July 2007
Last activity
15 July 2007
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wishful thinker
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  1. Bill Sornson said:

    I'm talking about so-called liberals trying to outlaw things that are bad
    (!) or harsh (!). Can't mark a student's paper in (gasp) RED INK because
    it's too jarring. Can't have a tug-of-war contest because some will (gasp)
    LOSE. (Not to mention the name, of course. Better call it a pulling
    contest? Oh, but /contest/ is too competitive.) Light bulbs, big motors,
    red meat, etc. etc. etc. etc.

    Meanwhile, Al Gore and his ilk fly their private jets to huge,
    emission-emitting events all over the world while preaching mass transit and
    green energy. Pure hypocrisy.

    Bill, nobody outside of the talk radio audience is familiar with these
    terrible injustices. Your speech here has nothing to do with what I
    was talking about, but just for the sake of argument, how bout a shout
    out to so-called 'conservatives' who get into everybody's business
    about 'family values' while going on wife number six and getting
    special 'massages' at the man-brothel or who pass judgment on drug
    users while eating handfuls of prescription pills, etc.. Plenty of
    busybodies in politics on all 'sides,' right?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    What I have seen are plenty of self-described free-thinkers, even
    'libertarians,' who feel the need to judge out loud and pontificate to
    unhelmeted riders. They take it upon themselves to enforce the
    unwritten uniform code of the Real Cyclist, on dirt and road. Here we
    are, resting by the trail, and along come some other bikers. Lo and
    behold, <<doubletake>> this guy's not wearing a helmet! What a perfect
    opportunity to show how superior, clear-headed, and in-control I am
    with a few sharp comments .... These people don't give a flying f*@#
    about the safety of others. Their helmet preaching is just part of a
    larger personality issue. The 'sport of cycling' is heavily burdened
    with these types. If not helmets, something else.

    I see the opposite -- especially on here. People (like Frank, Flailor, JFT,
    can't remember the rest) who don't just argue against lids, they badger and
    belittle those who choose to wear them.

    --- You think Frank doesn't wear a helmet? I don't think you
    understand exactly what you're dealing with here, son... ----

    Quoted message said:

    I don't know where you ride, but I've never seen or heard anything like you
    describe above. If I see a bare-headed guy bouncing down Noble Canyon (a
    VERY technical trail), I might think to myself he's nuts, but I certainly
    would never lecture him (I'm not a liberal, you see).

    What planet do you have to live on to think that uninvited lecturing
    is a distinct province of 'liberals?' pen your eyes man.

    Anyway, you obviously don't ride without a helmet. If you did you
    would know that uninvited helmet lectures from strangers are not an
    unusual occurence. Kudos to you for biting your tongue when given the
    chance though. I have never seen or heard of anyone getting harassed
    for wearing a helmet.

    Robert

  2. Michael Press said:

    In article
    <[email hidden]>,

    Tim McNamara said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    Michael Press <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    Tim McNamara <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > In article <[email hidden]>,
    > Michael Warner <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 22:26:24 -0500, Tim McNamara wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > > Yes. Impinged nerve running down into my left shoulder. It
    > > > gets aggravated sometimes and wearing a helmet is one thing
    > > > that does it pretty regularly.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > I'm sorry to hear it, but given the weight of a modern helmet
    > > compared to your head, I'm skeptical. My bet is that it's due to
    > > a different posture or muscle tension when you wear a helmet -
    > > you're probably ducking into the wind, unconsciously trying to
    > > minimize its extra wind resistance.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Hard to say why it causes pain, my current helmet is the lightest
    > that I could find and it's a little better but I still get more
    > pain than if I don't wear it. And since I don't see benefit in
    > wearing a helmet and have definite negative consequences, I often
    > don't wear a helmet. I am more likely to wear one when riding with
    > friends since they tend to be pro-helmet and I'd rather not waste
    > riding time on the discussion.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    What kind of friend is that?

    Quoted message said:

    Friends who have bought the marketing. They are well-meaning and
    genuinely concerned- most of these have acquired these tendencies
    through USCF racing and from Bicycling Magazine, among other sources.
    Why alienate them over something that doesn't inconvenience me all that
    much?

    Then be their friend.
    Wear a cloth cap and blast them if they try to give you [censored].
    Friends do not let friends get away with being a jerk.

    I have occasionally been gently harassed by friends when not wearing a
    helmet. That's fine. I know any helmet-related opinions they have are
    based on considerable experience as well as genuine concern and I
    welcome them. Unsolicited comments from random strangers, on the other
    hand, are most unhelpful and unwelcome, and may result in helmet
    preacher's being given a chance to test helmet's effectiveness against
    repeated open palm slaps.

    Robert

  3. On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 19:10:43 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    I distinctly recall /many/ encounters with you where you say "well
    you refuse to learn" or "those who can't learn from their betters" or some
    such [censored]. It's condescending, period.

    But it's true. At least in the helmet discussions you refuse to think
    critically or to learn.

    Condescending? Ha! He's doing you a favor.

    Think back to your math error. You make a mistake. You have several
    guys with engineering, science or math expertise telling you you are
    wrong. And you push back at them several times.

    *Finally* you learned the source of your error. I guess that means
    you don't really completely refuse to learn -- in that case you were
    just irrationally resistant.
    --
    JT
    ****************************
    Remove "remove" to reply
    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    ****************************

  4. On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 20:26:46 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

    Bill Sornson wrote: {context removed; shock et surprise, n'est-ce pas?}

    Quoted message said:

    ...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    So fine, ride without a lid. Who's stoppin' ya?

    Quoted message said:

    In quite a few jurisdictions, the police would, due to the lies of the
    pro-helmet propagandists on the effectiveness of foam hats on
    preventing serious injury and death.

    So work against MHLs and stop attacking people who merely choose to wear
    helmets.

    He's attacking people who say things about the efficacy of helmets
    that are not true. Those false statement play into the hands of the
    MHL crowd.
    --
    JT
    ****************************
    Remove "remove" to reply
    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    ****************************

  5. On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 19:10:43 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    The pro-lid people come
    from both ends; the anti-lid people are without exception lefties. Name
    just one conservative or "non liberal" who's anti-helmet! Just one???

    What is your problem? Did some woman get a job over you in the 1960s
    and you blame it on "women's libbers and pinkos." Two many
    industrious Mexicans and Koreans where you live and not enough "normal
    Americans." Left-wing media daring to question the US of A on TV
    really pissing you off? Feel like life is passing you by?

    Where does your political anger come from?

    I'd guess you listen to too many guys like Rush Limbaugh on the radio.
    --
    JT
    ****************************
    Remove "remove" to reply
    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    ****************************

  6. Bill Sornson said:

    I see the opposite -- especially on here. People (like Frank,
    Flailor, JFT, can't remember the rest) who don't just argue against
    lids, they badger and belittle those who choose to wear them.

    As you know (and have derided me for, for so-called inconsistency), I
    wear bike helmets some fo the time when I ride. Most of the time in
    fact, due to law, the competitive endeavor I'm in, and habit. But not
    all the time -- didn't wear one yesterday but will today because of
    where I'm going. (For years I wore a helmet every single time I rode
    untill I read more about it here and in other places.)

    So how can it possible be that I belittle people for simply choosing
    to wear a helmet?

    I criticize false information about the importance or effeciveness of
    helmets and belittle people who argue irrationally and obnxiously
    about it. Like you.
    --
    JT
    ****************************
    Remove "remove" to reply
    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    ****************************

  7. Tim McNamara said:

    I am much more contentious in these discussions than I am in person,
    because it's a "tech" newsgroup. In real life, someone as argumentative
    as most of us are here would soon have no friends. I overlook many
    foibles in my friends and vice versa, for the sake of those friendships
    unless the foible is clearly going to cause harm.

    For some topics, with friends of mine, if they start talking about
    stuff I disagree with I say "Don't say that or I'll tell you why I
    think you're wrong." But we have the discussion once or twice anyway.
    Not repeatedly.

    And there are some people who I simply don't hang around with because,
    despite their otherwise being nice, I strongly disagree with some of
    their beliefs despite them being nice to me.

    No loss, I know far too many people and too many people think they are
    sorta friends with me anyway.

    --
    JT
    ****************************
    Remove "remove" to reply
    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    ****************************

  8. On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 23:57:38 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Tim McNamara said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Tell you what. Prove that a hammer has less impact on a table with
    no pad in place and I'll retract every word. Hell, I'll even stop
    wearing a lid! (Maybe.)

    Force = mass * acceleration.

    "Impact". Not "force". HTH!

    Do you know what those words really mean?

    --
    JT
    ****************************
    Remove "remove" to reply
    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    ****************************

  9. Quoted message said:

    Anyway, you obviously don't ride without a helmet. If you did you
    would know that uninvited helmet lectures from strangers are not an
    unusual occurence. Kudos to you for biting your tongue when given the
    chance though. I have never seen or heard of anyone getting harassed
    for wearing a helmet.

    I have heard of Americans riding bikes with helmets in places in which
    doing so is rare being teased with comments such as "Do you crash a
    lot?" But not the aggressive "Where's your helmet!?" stuff we get
    here in the USA.
    --
    JT
    ****************************
    Remove "remove" to reply
    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    ****************************

  10. Michael Press said:

    In article
    <[email hidden]>,

    Tim McNamara said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted post said:

    the skull, as you probably know, has no organic function. It simply
    protects the brain.

    Quoted message said:

    WTF? I guess you don't chew, talk, hear, smile or look around. This is
    one of the most ludicrous statements I have read in r.b.t.

    I use my skull to keep out the bad ideas.

    --
    Michael Press

    Maybe mine holds bad ideas in and keeps good ones out. I ought to stop
    wearing my helmet. Maybe I'll crack it open and all the stupidity will
    go out and some brilliance will sneak in.

    Andres

  11. On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 08:34:12 -0700, Bill Sornson wrote:

    (Note: injecting arguments about MHLs is a strawman

    Quoted message said:

    technique unless the pro-lid person actually is in favor of them; can't
    recall even ONE being so.)

    Your cohort Ozark is.

  12. John Forrest Tomlinson said:

    On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 20:26:46 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

    Bill Sornson wrote: {context removed; shock et surprise, n'est-ce pas?}
    > ...
    > So fine, ride without a lid. Who's stoppin' ya?
    In quite a few jurisdictions, the police would, due to the lies of the
    pro-helmet propagandists on the effectiveness of foam hats on
    preventing serious injury and death.

    So work against MHLs and stop attacking people who merely choose to wear
    helmets.

    He's attacking people who say things about the efficacy of helmets
    that are not true. Those false statement play into the hands of the
    MHL crowd.

    I think B. Sornson has me confused with someone else. When have I ever
    attached someone for choosing to wear a helmet?

    In fact, I normally wear a foam hat while riding an upright bicycle and
    even on the 'bents [1], since an impact that would NOT cause brain
    trauma may still produce a nasty scalp wound. I wish something like the
    old "Skid Lid" was still being made, since I think it could actually
    provide more real world protection (as opposed to the tests designed to
    promote solid foam hats).

    [1] Where I am much less likely to land on my head during a fall.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

  13. Bill Sornson said:

    Tim McNamara wrote: {please excuse missing attributions}

    Quoted message said:

    I believe those hits would have hurt like hell. I also
    believe that you might be well-served by reassessing your choice of
    trails vis a vis your riding skills.

    Absurd. Technical mtb trails often cause even the best riders to crash.
    (Besides, this was long ago. I'm mostly roadie nowadays, and don't try some
    trail sections I once rode without hesitation.)...

    If you are not bleeding somewhere at the end, it is not a proper MTB ride.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

  14. aka Carl Fogel said:

    ...
    (This is why tall chimneys break as they fall. They're not stiff
    enough to accelerate the upper part without breaking....

    "Dear Carl" is confusing stiffness with strength. Older chimneys have
    very low ductility [1] and tensile strength, and will fail in tension at
    a weak point in the area where the bending moment is being applied.

    The stiffness of the structure is not relevant in this case.

    Never forget P/A + My/I! [2]

    [1] Compared to a modern reinforced concrete structure that will have a
    failure mode of the reinforcing steel yielding in tension.
    [2] This is the "tech" group, after all.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

  15. John Forrest Tomlinson said:

    On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 23:57:38 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Tim McNamara said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Tell you what. Prove that a hammer has less impact on a table with
    > no pad in place and I'll retract every word. Hell, I'll even stop
    > wearing a lid! (Maybe.)
    Force = mass * acceleration.


    "Impact". Not "force". HTH!

    Do you know what those words really mean?

    21st Century USians use "impact" when they can not figure out the
    difference between "affect" and "effect".

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

  16. J. Taylor said:

    On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 08:34:12 -0700, Bill Sornson wrote:

    (Note: injecting arguments about MHLs is a strawman

    Quoted message said:

    technique unless the pro-lid person actually is in favor of them; can't
    recall even ONE being so.)

    Your cohort Ozark is.

    Welcome Back! Sorni was missing you.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

  17. Ozark Bicycle said:
    Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:
    John Forrest Tomlinson said:

    How about some reality? You're at least as likely to die in a car so
    why don't you wear a helmet in a car? I'm asking you seriously? Why
    don't you?
    Tens of thousands of people are dying in cars every year in the US and
    a helmet may help. Do you advocate they wear one? And if not, why
    not?
    I'm not saying you should -- I'm just asking. Why or why not? And if
    not, what makes cycling so special that it warrants extra protection?
    These are simple questions.


    HOT DOG! WE HAVE A WEINER!

    It's not a real helmet flame war until this point is brought up.

    All we need now is that flaming ass from Halifax, and the picture will
    be complete.

    ASK AND YE SHALL RECEIVE! 😉

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

  18. Tim McNamara said:

    As I have said before, I often wear a helmet when riding. It makes
    important members of my family happier (my mother, my wife, etc.).
    Other than aggravating my neck and making sweat run in my eyes on hot
    days, it doesn't inconvenience me. I have no expectation that it will
    provide me with protection nor that it will cause me harm, but the
    feelings of the people I care about are more important to me.

    Since your helmet doesn't have to meet any safety standards, and you
    have no faith in it anyway, why not try carving away most of its foam to
    make it as light as possible while still looking the part?

    I might try this with an old cracked one, which is already illegal here :-)

  19. John Forrest Tomlinson said:

    Smarmy and deluded you are.

    Not deluded to the extent that I think insulting people who disagree with
    me will further my cause, though.

    One benefit of living with mandatory helmets is that the helmet wars are
    unknown here, and we just put them on and go riding rather than waste so
    much time, energy and bile on such a trivial issue.

  20. Michael Warner said:
    Tim McNamara said:

    As I have said before, I often wear a helmet when riding. It makes
    important members of my family happier (my mother, my wife, etc.).
    Other than aggravating my neck and making sweat run in my eyes on hot
    days, it doesn't inconvenience me. I have no expectation that it will
    provide me with protection nor that it will cause me harm, but the
    feelings of the people I care about are more important to me.

    Since your helmet doesn't have to meet any safety standards, and you
    have no faith in it anyway, why not try carving away most of its foam to
    make it as light as possible while still looking the part?

    I might try this with an old cracked one, which is already illegal here :-)

    I did that, and it worked quite well. An hour with the dremel gave it
    significantly better ventilation (I first did one side, then went for
    a ride to get a somewhat fair comparison). It went from around 280
    grams initially to around 180 grams when I was done, but still wasn't
    as light as the old Specialized "Sub 6" helmets (Specialized claimed
    they weighed less than 6 ounces, which is, what, 170 grams?).

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