Paramount

Fred Clydesdale said:

Tim McNamara said:

Quoted message said:

back to the subject at hand: Anyone commuting without a chain
mail vest is a thorax hater!!!!

Mine's mithril. Lighter and breathes better than iron or steel.

balrog.

Hiding under Grant Peterson's bed?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Bill Sornson said:

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

,

Mark Shroyer said:

I don't understand the vehemence of the anti-helmet fanatics in
this thread.

Quoted message said:

There is no such thing as an ` anti-helmet fanatics'.

[censored]. One Mister Flailor comes to mind, among others.

Ah, the demented, flaming ass from Halifax! He's MIA. Has he been
medded out? Commited? Or the victim of a head trauma?

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

G.T. said:

"Mark Shroyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't understand the vehemence of the anti-helmet fanatics in
this thread. Nobody (at least nobody here) is telling you that
you should wear a helmet if you don't want to; likewise, if the
rest of us prefer having some degree of protection, however
minimal, between our heads and the road, then you really
shouldn't take it personally.

Operative word being "minimal". If you are worried about scratches or
even wounds requiring stitches than by all means wear a helmet. But
it's laughable to expect a thin styrofoam helmet to protect your brain
from serious injury.

MY MAGIC FOAM HAT [TM] SAVED ME FROM A MINOR ABRASION AND TEMPORARY
DISCOMFORT WHEN I BUMPED MY HEAD AGAINST THE OPEN HATCH OF A STATION WAGON!

Yeah, mine's saved me from that plenty of times.

Greg
--
http://ticketmastersucks.org

Le Petite Dejeuner au Tour de Farce:
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=6131132

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 16:18:30 -0700, "G.T." <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

email hidden said:

I don't give a hoot if people wear helmets or not. However, I was in
two bike accidents in which I hit the helmet, and the helmets cracked
both times and my head was left intact. In one occasion, my head hit a
car and the helmet cracked in half. I passed out and woke up 4 hours
later in the emergency room. I got a replacement helmet and a
certificate that read "saved by the bell".

The other occasion, my helmet hit the ground and I felt it bouncing up
and down before sliding on the pavement. On that occasion, my helmet
saved skin too and it cracked.

I crashed into a tree the first time I went cross-country skiing and
hit my knee. I was wearing lycra tights over long underwear and both
were ripped. I ended up needing stitches and probably if I wasn't
wearing those clothes I would have broken my kneecap or leg.

Actually if you hadn't been wearing lycra and long underwear then you'd
be wearing diapers now.

Lycra and long underwear work. Period. When you've changed the
diapers on friends with broken kneecaps you'll see the argument is
over. If you don't want to wear them, that's your business, but I
sincerely hope you never bang your knee and end up in diapers.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Ozark Bicycle said:

Yep, Frank "I wuz a Perfessur" Krygowski is back. And he's the same
helmet-obsessed, arrogant, condescending, self-inflated gasbag and all-
around [censored] as always! :-((

Thanks Ozark. Keep going with the insults -- you're pretty good at
that. On facts and logic, not so much.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Bill Sornson said:

...
It's just that sort of sloppy thinking that has all you AHZs confused about
the merits of liddedness!...

Lids on heads are a good thing - keeps objects from falling in and the
dog from using it as a drinking fountain.

The correct position is BOTH seat and lid down when not in use. Anyone
who believes differently should be tortured by The Spanish Inquisition,
starting with the soft cushions, then the comfy chair.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Camilo said:

It is relevant if mandatory helmet use discourages the healthy
activity of cycling

I'd say that dealing with cars on the road discourages a lot more. Let's
get rid of them.

Tim McNamara said:

In my case, wearing a helmet is a balance between the slight possibility
that it might protect me in the remote chance that I crash, and the
certainty that the weight of the helmet will cause me neck and shoulder
pain.

Are you serious? I've never heard that one before.

Michael Warner said:

Tim McNamara said:

In my case, wearing a helmet is a balance between the slight
possibility that it might protect me in the remote chance that I
crash, and the certainty that the weight of the helmet will cause me
neck and shoulder pain.

Are you serious? I've never heard that one before.

At least he admits it may protect him in a crash; that's more than the
average AHZ will allow!

In article <[email hidden]>,

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

Tim McNamara said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

landotter said:

On Jul 5, 12:30 pm, Fred Clydesdale <[email hidden]> wrote:
> In article <[email hidden]>,
> John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 22:26:17 -0700, [email hidden] wrote:
>>> I've "used" 3 helmets- and certainly if I wasn't wearing one
>>> "I" would not be here now.
>> I don't know the circumstance of your accidents, but in every
>> case I've heard where someone said something like that it's
>> turned out that they are very mistaken and irrational about
>> helmet use. It's amazing that you have three times you had
>> accidents that were severe enough to have been deadly and yet
>> were not so severe as to overwhelm those small pieces of foam or
>> break your neck or other body parts in crippling or deadly ways.
>> Or perhaps you are crippled or severely injured in other ways?
> wasn't there a paramount in here just a second ago?
Theft on Usenet is worse than NYC.

back to the subject at hand: Anyone commuting without a chain mail
vest is a thorax hater!!!!

Mine's mithril. Lighter and breathes better than iron or steel.

Mithril is stiffer than steel, yet is more compliant.

It's magical!

On Jul 6, 7:11 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 09:47:42 -0500, Tim McNamara

I started cycling a lot as a
teenager and didn't wear a helmet at first. But I saw people on
organized bike tours near where I spent each summer wearing them. I
associated helmets with serious cyclists. Same thing with racers --
racers and long-distance tourists wore helmets and to me wearing one
was a sign of taking the sport seriously, even before I started
racing.

It's a badge to demonstrate that we know what we're doing and/or are
on an adventure and/or care more about being safe than the next guy.

I've got to - grudgingly - hand it to the helmet manufacturers. They
knew enough to take advantage of mankind's overwhelming desire for
special hats!

There were cowboy hats for horse fans, chefs hats for barbecue fans,
green berets for the military guys, sporty tweed caps for sports car
guys (and Carl's observed-trial buddies), lure-filled caps for the
fishermen, sailor caps for the yachting crowd... but cyclists had
nothing but cheap cotton caps. Hell, they didn't even cost $10.
Where's the "special" message in that?

They saw their opportunity and seized it. Too bad the slimeballs tied
it to a "Cycling is Dangerous!!!!" message.

- Frank Krygowski

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michael Warner said:

Tim McNamara said:

In my case, wearing a helmet is a balance between the slight
possibility that it might protect me in the remote chance that I
crash, and the certainty that the weight of the helmet will cause
me neck and shoulder pain.

Are you serious? I've never heard that one before.

Yes. Impinged nerve running down into my left shoulder. It gets
aggravated sometimes and wearing a helmet is one thing that does it
pretty regularly. I've got a bad disc in my lower back, another one in
my neck, and had my knee scoped a couple of years ago for a torn
meniscus. I suspect most of these problems are souvenirs of my Aikido
days although probably not the neck- I've had some neck trouble since a
minibike accident in high school.

Quoted message said:

On Jul 6, 7:11 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 09:47:42 -0500, Tim McNamara

I started cycling a lot as a
teenager and didn't wear a helmet at first. But I saw people on
organized bike tours near where I spent each summer wearing them. I
associated helmets with serious cyclists. Same thing with racers --
racers and long-distance tourists wore helmets and to me wearing one
was a sign of taking the sport seriously, even before I started
racing.

It's a badge to demonstrate that we know what we're doing and/or are
on an adventure and/or care more about being safe than the next guy.

I've got to - grudgingly - hand it to the helmet manufacturers. They
knew enough to take advantage of mankind's overwhelming desire for
special hats!

There were cowboy hats for horse fans, chefs hats for barbecue fans,
green berets for the military guys, sporty tweed caps for sports car
guys (and Carl's observed-trial buddies), lure-filled caps for the
fishermen, sailor caps for the yachting crowd... but cyclists had
nothing but cheap cotton caps. Hell, they didn't even cost $10.
Where's the "special" message in that?

They saw their opportunity and seized it. Too bad the slimeballs tied
it to a "Cycling is Dangerous!!!!" message.

Yes, Frank, ALL those hats are just intended to deliver messages, rather
that serve specific purposes. Typical narrow-minded (biased) viewpoint.

BS (not)

Bill Sornson said:

Quoted message said:

Bill Sornson said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> On Jul 6, 11:41 am, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> [email hidden] trolled:
>>> Oh, and feel free to look up the number of pedestrian fatalities
>>> in the US each year, and compare them to the number of bike
>>> fatalities.

{NO MENTION OF PER-HOUR RATES OR COMPARISONS}

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> Suddenly Frank /doesn't/ consider total population factors. LOL
> I'm taking this step by step, Bill. And in any case, I provided
> per- hour figures, which you seem to have somehow missed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Perhaps there is somebody in your neighborhood who can explain the
> term "Per hour" to you. Ask around.
The above quote attributed to you is accurate, Frank. You didn't
qualify it.

You really _don't_ understand "per hour," do you? ;-) Let me explain
slowly.

Yawn.

The worst students are those who are easily bored.

Bill, if you're so opposed to learning anything, why do you even
bother reading these discussions? Your contributions are like those
of a 12-year-old.

- Frank Krygowski

Quoted message said:

On Jul 6, 7:11 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 09:47:42 -0500, Tim McNamara

I started cycling a lot as a
teenager and didn't wear a helmet at first. But I saw people on
organized bike tours near where I spent each summer wearing them. I
associated helmets with serious cyclists. Same thing with racers --
racers and long-distance tourists wore helmets and to me wearing one
was a sign of taking the sport seriously, even before I started
racing.

It's a badge to demonstrate that we know what we're doing and/or are
on an adventure and/or care more about being safe than the next guy.

I've got to - grudgingly - hand it to the helmet manufacturers. They
knew enough to take advantage of mankind's overwhelming desire for
special hats!

There were cowboy hats for horse fans, chefs hats for barbecue fans,
green berets for the military guys, sporty tweed caps for sports car
guys (and Carl's observed-trial buddies), lure-filled caps for the
fishermen, sailor caps for the yachting crowd... but cyclists had
nothing but cheap cotton caps. Hell, they didn't even cost $10.
Where's the "special" message in that?

They saw their opportunity and seized it. Too bad the slimeballs tied
it to a "Cycling is Dangerous!!!!" message.

- Frank Krygowski

Dear Frank,

At the moment, the most expensive helmet at Performance Bike is
$174.99, the cheapest only $14.99:

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/sub_cat.cfm?subcategory_ID=4210&orderby=2&filterby=&view_all=0&searchSize=

Try to guess which helmet sells for $175, which for $85, and which for
$24:

http://www.performancebike.com/product_images/250/40-3784-BWH-ANGLE.jpg

http://www.performancebike.com/product_images/250/40-3693-RDS-ANGLE.jpg

http://www.performancebike.com/product_images/250/40-3688-BWH-ANGLE.jpg

A quick look through the specs tab on a few helmets suggests that
Performance sells no helmets with safety specs--they mention the
number of vents, the weight, and the marvelous straps.

For comparison, WalMart sells adult bicycle helmets for $14 to $25, a
much smaller range. Probably WalMart shoppers aren't quite as likely
to buy $175 bicycle helmets.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5741056#Features+%26+Specifications

The number of vents, the shipping weight, and the wonderful strap
systems are mentioned, but again I saw nothing in the features section
about safety standards.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Tim McNamara said:

Yes. Impinged nerve running down into my left shoulder. It gets
aggravated sometimes and wearing a helmet is one thing that does it
pretty regularly.

I'm sorry to hear it, but given the weight of a modern helmet compared
to your head, I'm skeptical. My bet is that it's due to a different posture
or muscle tension when you wear a helmet - you're probably ducking into
the wind, unconsciously trying to minimize its extra wind resistance.

Quoted message said:

I've got a bad disc in my lower back, another one in
my neck, and had my knee scoped a couple of years ago for a torn
meniscus. I suspect most of these problems are souvenirs of my Aikido
days

And I thought aikido was one of the gentler, more flowing martial arts!
Think I'll stick with cycling :-)

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

I though the leading cause of brain damage was watching too much
commercial television!

Quite the reverse. When we watch commercial TV our brains shut down -
apparently even more than when we sleep - so wear and tear is reduced to
virtually nil, lengthening their life. This low level of brain activity
also makes more of our blood available for more important tasks like
digesting chips and metabolizing alcohol.

Ozark Bicycle said:

Bill Sornson said:

Quoted message said:

On Jul 6, 12:28 pm, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> [email hidden] wrote:
>> On Jul 6, 11:41 am, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>> [email hidden] trolled:
>>>> Oh, and feel free to look up the number of pedestrian fatalities
>>>> in the US each year, and compare them to the number of bike
>>>> fatalities.

Quoted message said:

{NO MENTION OF PER-HOUR RATES OR COMPARISONS}

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>> Suddenly Frank /doesn't/ consider total population factors. LOL
>> I'm taking this step by step, Bill. And in any case, I provided
>> per- hour figures, which you seem to have somehow missed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> Perhaps there is somebody in your neighborhood who can explain the
>> term "Per hour" to you. Ask around.
> The above quote attributed to you is accurate, Frank. You didn't
> qualify it.
You really _don't_ understand "per hour," do you? ;-) Let me explain
slowly.

Quoted message said:

Yawn. You posted a bunch of Australian stuff (IIRC), then asked the
self-contained question-as-a-suggestion above.

Quoted message said:

HTH!

Quoted message said:

Frank "annoyances per hour greatly increased since you returned to Usenet"
S.

Yep, Frank "I wuz a Perfessur" Krygowski is back. And he's the same
helmet-obsessed, arrogant, condescending, self-inflated gasbag and all-
around [censored] as always! :-((

Yes, I'm back. We did a six-week vacation in Europe with our Bike
Fridays, combining train travel and bike travel. It was fantastic.
Very educational, and lots of fun.

So, how's the part-time, discount bike repair business going?

Did you ever summon the cash and courage to confront JFT in New York?
Or did that manly threat of yours slip completely off your radar
screen? ;-)

- Frank Krygowski

Frank 'The Gasbag' Krygowski said:

On Jul 6, 9:19 pm, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

On Jul 6, 6:34 pm, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> On Jul 6, 12:28 pm, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> [email hidden] wrote:
>>> On Jul 6, 11:41 am, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>>> [email hidden] trolled:
>>>>> Oh, and feel free to look up the number of pedestrian fatalities
>>>>> in the US each year, and compare them to the number of bike
>>>>> fatalities.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

{NO MENTION OF PER-HOUR RATES OR COMPARISONS}

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>> Suddenly Frank /doesn't/ consider total population factors. LOL
>>> I'm taking this step by step, Bill. And in any case, I provided
>>> per- hour figures, which you seem to have somehow missed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>> Perhaps there is somebody in your neighborhood who can explain the
>>> term "Per hour" to you. Ask around.
>> The above quote attributed to you is accurate, Frank. You didn't
>> qualify it.
> You really _don't_ understand "per hour," do you? ;-) Let me explain
> slowly.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yawn. You posted a bunch of Australian stuff (IIRC), then asked the
self-contained question-as-a-suggestion above.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

HTH!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Frank "annoyances per hour greatly increased since you returned to Usenet"
S.

Quoted message said:

Yep, Frank "I wuz a Perfessur" Krygowski is back. And he's the same
helmet-obsessed, arrogant, condescending, self-inflated gasbag and all-
around [censored] as always! :-((

Yes, I'm back. We did a six-week vacation in Europe with our Bike
Fridays, combining train travel and bike travel. It was fantastic.
Very educational, and lots of fun.

Too bad you're back, you [censored].

Quoted message said:

So, how's the part-time, discount bike repair business going?

It's going great! Pays all the bills, let's me indulge my modest
consumer urges, *and*, I've lotsa time to ride whenever I like, since
I only work as many hours as I like, when I like. What's not to like?

Quoted message said:

You're a nasty, petty [censored] and a [censored], Franky.....but people have
told you that all your life, right?

Quoted message said:

Bill Sornson said:

Quoted message said:

On Jul 6, 12:28 pm, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> [email hidden] wrote:
>> On Jul 6, 11:41 am, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>> [email hidden] trolled:
>>>> Oh, and feel free to look up the number of pedestrian fatalities
>>>> in the US each year, and compare them to the number of bike
>>>> fatalities.

{NO MENTION OF PER-HOUR RATES OR COMPARISONS}

Quoted message said:

>>> Suddenly Frank /doesn't/ consider total population factors. LOL
>> I'm taking this step by step, Bill. And in any case, I provided
>> per- hour figures, which you seem to have somehow missed.

Quoted message said:

>> Perhaps there is somebody in your neighborhood who can explain the
>> term "Per hour" to you. Ask around.
> The above quote attributed to you is accurate, Frank. You didn't
> qualify it.
You really _don't_ understand "per hour," do you? ;-) Let me
explain slowly.

Yawn.

The worst students are those who are easily bored.

I'm not your student, moron.

Quoted message said:

Bill, if you're so opposed to learning anything, why do you even
bother reading these discussions?

Frank, I will gladly and readily learn from those smarter than I or who know
more than I.

Since you repeatedly claim that walking is riskier than cycling, you
obviously fail on both counts.

Bill "but big bonus points for new and improved pompous gasbaggery" S.