Paris-Nice, Stage 2

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Robert Chung, Mar 11, 2003.

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  1. Robert Chung

    Robert Chung Guest

    Frigo made the decisive attack up the Croix de Chaubouret (not particularly steep, but about 15km
    long) to shatter the peloton. Looked very strong and only Vinokourov (last year's winner) and
    Rebellin were able to respond. They picked up a couple of earlier escapees (Botcharov, Zarrabeitia,
    and Frigo's teammate Gustov) but basically Frigo dragged everyone up the hill. Axel Merckx (!) led a
    pursuing group at 30 seconds that was never able to close down on the gang of six. Vinokourov was
    forced to lead out the sprint, and Rebellin was able to come around and make a separation. I can't
    remember the last time I saw Rebellin win something. He takes over the yellow-and-white jersey by
    bonus seconds over Vinokourov.

    Cofidis' Kivilev was caught up in a crash and last time we saw him was lying motionless on the
    ground. Ugh.

    Hamilton lost big time. Moncoutie lost even more. Frigo looked very impressive.
     
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  2. On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 22:52:33 +0100, Robert Chung wrote:
    >Cofidis' Kivilev was caught up in a crash and last time we saw him was =
    lying
    >motionless on the ground. Ugh.

    He's in a coma, with a cracked skull (forehead) and two broken ribs. (in Dutch: =
    http://193.121.55.225/tt/tt.php?p=3D425&g=3D0&s=3D1&r=3D0&x=3D1)
     
  3. Mike Krueger

    Mike Krueger Guest

    << >Cofidis' Kivilev was caught up in a crash and last time we saw him was lying motionless on the
    ground. Ugh.

    He's in a coma, with a cracked skull (forehead) and two broken ribs. >>

    Perhaps if he had been wearing a helmet his injuries would not have been so severe. I hope
    he recovers.
     
  4. M

    M Guest

    "Mike Krueger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > << >Cofidis' Kivilev was caught up in a crash and last time we saw him was lying motionless on the
    > ground. Ugh.
    >
    > He's in a coma, with a cracked skull (forehead) and two broken ribs. >>
    >
    > Perhaps if he had been wearing a helmet his injuries would not have been
    so
    > severe. I hope he recovers.

    So why do so many pros ride without helmets??? Should wearing helmets be enforced?

    Marcus
     
  5. One opinion: http://www.olntv.com/B70022EA0709428DBB91BA6E7DA3E81C.htm

    Summary : they should be required. That would eliminate the competitive disadvantage of
    wearing them.

    Dan

    Mike Krueger wrote:
    > << >Cofidis' Kivilev was caught up in a crash and last time we saw him was lying motionless on the
    > ground. Ugh.
    >
    > He's in a coma, with a cracked skull (forehead) and two broken ribs. >>
    >
    > Perhaps if he had been wearing a helmet his injuries would not have been so severe. I hope he
    > recovers.
    >
     
  6. "M" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Mike Krueger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > << >Cofidis' Kivilev was caught up in a crash and last time we saw him
    was
    > > lying motionless on the ground. Ugh.
    > >
    > > He's in a coma, with a cracked skull (forehead) and two broken ribs. >>
    > >
    > > Perhaps if he had been wearing a helmet his injuries would not have been
    > so
    > > severe. I hope he recovers.
    >
    > So why do so many pros ride without helmets??? Should wearing helmets be enforced?
    >
    > Marcus

    As much as they should enforce wearing full body armor. The helmet wouldn't have helped much with
    the broken ribs

    -T
     
  7. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    "M" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Mike Krueger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > << >Cofidis' Kivilev was caught up in a crash and last time we saw him
    was
    > > lying motionless on the ground. Ugh.
    > >
    > > He's in a coma, with a cracked skull (forehead) and two broken ribs. >>
    > >
    > > Perhaps if he had been wearing a helmet his injuries would not have been
    > so
    > > severe. I hope he recovers.
    >
    > So why do so many pros ride without helmets??? Should wearing helmets be enforced?
    >
    > Marcus
    >
    Didn't they try to mandate and enforce helmet use back in the early 90s? I remember protests by the
    riders about having to wear the "hot and heavy" helmets of the day.

    As far as I'm concerned, if you are a professional that values his career, I'd wear a helmet.
    Otherwise, you could end up like Kivilev... Just one stupid fall, and bang! there goes your career.

    I feel naked without my helmet on. I especially don't trust other riders in the packs that I've been
    riding in lately.

    Do I think mandating helmet use is the way to go? Probably not. If you want to be an idiot and not
    wear your helmet, great. Just don't come crying to me when you end up with a fractured skull!

    Mike
     
  8. In article <[email protected]>, "Tom Schulenburg"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "M" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Mike Krueger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > << >Cofidis' Kivilev was caught up in a crash and last time we saw him
    > was
    > > > lying motionless on the ground. Ugh.
    > > >
    > > > He's in a coma, with a cracked skull (forehead) and two broken ribs. >>
    > > >
    > > > Perhaps if he had been wearing a helmet his injuries would not have been
    > > so
    > > > severe. I hope he recovers.
    > >
    > > So why do so many pros ride without helmets??? Should wearing helmets be enforced?
    > >
    > > Marcus
    >
    > As much as they should enforce wearing full body armor. The helmet wouldn't have helped much with
    > the broken ribs
    >
    > -T

    I remember Piotr Wadecki had a similar injury last year at around this time, I think it happened
    in Tirreno Adriatico. Smashed skull, coma the whole shmear. However, he recovered and ended up in
    the Tour de Suisse with 2nd (or third? Can't remember exactly). So hopefully this will be the case
    with kivilev!
     
  9. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    There are plenty of easier ways to get some time off.

    "Marlene Blanshay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, "Tom Schulenburg"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > "M" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > > "Mike Krueger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > << >Cofidis' Kivilev was caught up in a crash and last time we saw
    him
    > > was
    > > > > lying motionless on the ground. Ugh.
    > > > >
    > > > > He's in a coma, with a cracked skull (forehead) and two broken ribs.
    >>
    > > > >
    > > > > Perhaps if he had been wearing a helmet his injuries would not have
    been
    > > > so
    > > > > severe. I hope he recovers.
    > > >
    > > > So why do so many pros ride without helmets??? Should wearing helmets be enforced?
    > > >
    > > > Marcus
    > >
    > > As much as they should enforce wearing full body armor. The helmet
    wouldn't
    > > have helped much with the broken ribs
    > >
    > > -T
    >
    > I remember Piotr Wadecki had a similar injury last year at around this time, I think it happened
    > in Tirreno Adriatico. Smashed skull, coma the whole shmear. However, he recovered and ended up in
    > the Tour de Suisse with 2nd (or third? Can't remember exactly). So hopefully this will be the case
    > with kivilev!
     
  10. "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message If you
    > want to be an idiot and not wear your helmet, great. Just don't come
    crying
    > to me when you end up with a fractured skull!
    >

    What makes you think someone would want to?
     
  11. [email protected] (Mike Krueger) wrote in news:[email protected]:

    <snip>

    > Perhaps if he had been wearing a helmet his injuries would not have been so severe. I hope he
    > recovers.

    You do know that this statement is going to start a holy war, right?

    My prediction is the troll index goes through the roof.

    - Boyd
     
  12. The problem with your logic is riders may well feel that it is a competitive disadvantage to wear a
    helmet. There are cat 5's emptying their bank accounts to save a few hundred grams on their bikes,
    often in excess of $2 per gram saved -- take off your helmet, and there's over 300 grams which
    doesn't have to be supported on your head or carried up mountains. How can you criticize riders for
    at times choosing to take this advantage, which is within the rules? Do you similarly think all
    other voluntary risks are unacceptable? Should racers stop "tailgating"? That would save a lot of
    injuries, as well.

    No -- the highly competitive nature of cycling means riders are forced to seek out virtually any
    legal advantage available to them. The solution is to eliminate the competitive advantage, and the
    way to do that is to mandate use in competition. The same for everyone. Then folks can stop
    worrying about it.

    Dan

    Mike S. wrote:
    > Do I think mandating helmet use is the way to go? Probably not. If you want to be an idiot and not
    > wear your helmet, great. Just don't come crying to me when you end up with a fractured skull!
    >
    > Mike
     
  13. Psycholist

    Psycholist Guest

    Should wearing helmets be enforced?
    > >
    > > Marcus
    >
    > As much as they should enforce wearing full body armor. The helmet
    wouldn't
    > have helped much with the broken ribs
    "Tom Schulenburg"

    You're kidding, right? He wouldn't be in a coma from broken ribs. Apparently you've fallen on your
    head a few times. Maybe you should wear a helmet.

    Bob C.
     
  14. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    Why not simply ban bicycle racing. That way he wouldn't have fallen off at all.

    "psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Should wearing helmets be enforced?
    > > >
    > > > Marcus
    > >
    > > As much as they should enforce wearing full body armor. The helmet
    > wouldn't
    > > have helped much with the broken ribs
    > "Tom Schulenburg"
    >
    > You're kidding, right? He wouldn't be in a coma from broken ribs. Apparently you've fallen on your
    > head a few times. Maybe you should
    wear a
    > helmet.
    >
    > Bob C.
     
  15. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Didn't they try to mandate and enforce helmet use back in the early
    90s? I
    > remember protests by the riders about having to wear the "hot and
    heavy"
    > helmets of the day.

    Those helmets were just like the one's you buy today. Perhaps those were lighter. As I recall,
    Specialized made a Sub-6 helmet in those days. Maybe you think that human bodies have changed. Yeah,
    that's it. They aren't hot and heavy anymore because human's have turned cold blooded. Or at least
    some of them who can't keep their noses out of other's business.

    > As far as I'm concerned, if you are a professional that values his
    career,
    > I'd wear a helmet. Otherwise, you could end up like Kivilev...
    Just one
    > stupid fall, and bang! there goes your career.

    You're going to look like on stupid ass if Kivilev recovers and races again.

    > I feel naked without my helmet on. I especially don't trust other
    riders in
    > the packs that I've been riding in lately.

    I feel naked without a couple of .45s slung across my back to ward off the assholes in SUV's.

    > Do I think mandating helmet use is the way to go?

    Why go halfway. Why not mandate body armor, bullet proof face masks and holy tatoos that ward
    off bad juju?
     
  16. "psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Should wearing helmets be enforced?
    > > >
    how many people injure their heads in auto-accidents? get them to wear helmets mayhap?
     
  17. Donald Munro

    Donald Munro Guest

    Marlene Blanshay wrote:
    > I remember Piotr Wadecki had a similar injury last year at around this time, I think it happened
    > in Tirreno Adriatico. Smashed skull, coma the whole shmear. However, he recovered and ended up in
    > the Tour de Suisse with 2nd (or third? Can't remember exactly). So hopefully this will be the case
    > with kivilev!

    Unfortunately this does not appear to be the case this time if I understand Ewoud's Dutch site
    correctly he died earlier today (http://193.121.55.225/tt/tt.php?p=425&g=0&s=1&r=0&x=1)

    KAZAK ANDREI KIVILEV IS OVERLEDEN ­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­ De Kazakse wielrenner
    Andrei Kivilev is woensdag in het ziekenhuis van het Franse Saint-Etienne gestorven. Dat heeft zijn
    ploeg Cofidis bekendgemaakt.

    Hij overleed aan de verwondingen die hij dinsdag opliep bij zijn val in de tweede rit van
    Parijs-Nice.

    Kivilev viel op zowat 40 km van de streep, samen met Marek Rutkiewicz en Volker Ordiowski. De Kazak
    viel met zijn gezicht op de grond, verloor het bewustzijn en werd meteen naar het ziekenhuis
    gevoerd. De ploegmaat van Nico Mattan droeg geen helm
     
  18. Jay Hill

    Jay Hill Guest

  19. Tom Kunich <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    (stuff snipped)

    > You're going to look like on stupid ass if Kivilev recovers and races again.

    Yeah. You really told him. You truly are an ass, Kunich.
     
  20. "psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Should wearing helmets be enforced?
    > > >
    > > > Marcus
    > >
    > > As much as they should enforce wearing full body armor. The helmet
    > wouldn't
    > > have helped much with the broken ribs
    > "Tom Schulenburg"
    >
    > You're kidding, right? He wouldn't be in a coma from broken ribs. Apparently you've fallen on your
    > head a few times. Maybe you should wear
    a
    > helmet.
    >
    > Bob C.

    Never said anything about a coma. Punctured lungs, ruptured spleens, etc can be just as traumatic. I
    wear a helmet, but that's my choice. From what I've read, his injuries were due to a "Face Plant".
    I'm not sure a helmet would have helped. In most fatal cases (Like auto racing) it's the sudden
    deceleration that causes major injury. They have yet to design a helmet that prevents that. My
    opinion is that a helmet might prevent some head injuries, it won't prevent all injuries and it's
    not guaranteed to save your life. You are welcome to your opinion.

    -Tom
     
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