PLEASE HELP! GiantTCR1: ringing sound at speed

[su22]

Please help! I ride a Giant TCR Composite 1 2004 (black frame, blue detailing).
Mavic kysrium wheels, FSA carbon cranks 39/52 with recently added 12-27 ultegra casette, longer chain shimano 9sp chain and long-cage rear derailleur.

When my bike freewheels at speeds over 50kmh (not that fast at all) either my cranks/BB or wheel axle/chain makes this loud high-pitched whirring sound. It's really worrying me because I am training for a 200km mountain ride and i need to be able to descend on this thing.

The sound goes away when i start pedalling again. When the sound comes on, i can feel some vibration through my saddle, and it is definitely coming from the back end of my bike. I'm stumped and have no idea how to fix it.

The following are the only causes i can think of:
1) I have got water into some moving parts (I spray my bike with water to clean it. It's probably bad)
2) The new 12-27 casette/chain/rear derailleur setup is making this sound (took the 12-23 casette/short-cage rear D/short chain off).
3) Bike shop who put new components on did a shonky dangerous job. (and ripped me off selling me the extra long-cage RD and new chain. GRRRR)
4) Defective frame?

If anyone has had this problem before I would LOVE to hear your thoughts.

Thanks and happy riding
Su

 

[flipper]

Has this only been happening since the cassette change?

 

[gclark8]

When the cassette was changed, were the rear wheel bearings checked or repacked with grease? It could also be the freehub rachet.

 

[artemidorus]

Check that the cassette lockring is tight (40Nm or thereabouts, I think, is right). I've had a similar problem which I thought was due to rattling of the cassette on the freehub body at speed. When you pedal, the pull of the chain stabilises the cassette and stops it rattling.

 

[su22]

Thanks heaps for your replies, I think the freehub/casette thing sounds about right. I have no idea what it is, but i can't think of anything else on my bike that would make this kind of noise. It's definitely not my cranks because i can't feel the vibration through the pedals.

This sound has only come on after i got the new casette. Its started getting higher in pitch too-- ie vibrating more/looser, and it's coming on at lower speeds as well. Giant TCR frames are only known to vibrate at speeds over 80kmh, i've never gone above 67kmh.

I'm going to head to the bike shop and have a word with them. My mates told me they sold me the unnecessary long cage RD and chain to go with the 12-27 casette that i wanted.

 

[thomas_cho]

Thanks heaps for your replies, I think the freehub/casette thing sounds about right. I have no idea what it is, but i can't think of anything else on my bike that would make this kind of noise. It's definitely not my cranks because i can't feel the vibration through the pedals.

This sound has only come on after i got the new casette. Its started getting higher in pitch too-- ie vibrating more/looser, and it's coming on at lower speeds as well. Giant TCR frames are only known to vibrate at speeds over 80kmh, i've never gone above 67kmh.

I'm going to head to the bike shop and have a word with them. My mates told me they sold me the unnecessary long cage RD and chain to go with the 12-27 casette that i wanted.

I am very curious as to why they sold you a long cage RD? and what reasons did they give for needing a long cage RD. I'd say you should ask them to put your old one back on, and get a full refund. The long cage RD is to take up chain slack if you were using a triple chainset.

That shop sounds real dodgy, it might be better to get another shop's opinion on the whirring sound after you get your money back.

 

[gclark8]

Good points, Thomas. She must have been sold the RD by a Campag dealer!

On the ringing, the more I read this tpoic, the more it sounds to me like a loose cssette lock ring.

 

[flipper]

There's a spacer that goes in behind the cassette which may have been left out on assembly... not having the spacer can cause the cassette to float even with the lockring tight.
Let us know how it goes with the LBS.

 

[artemidorus]

There's a spacer that goes in behind the cassette which may have been left out on assembly... not having the spacer can cause the cassette to float even with the lockring tight.
Let us know how it goes with the LBS.

I've never seen one of these spacers; which groupsets have them?

 

[62vette]

I've never seen one of these spacers; which groupsets have them?

flipper may have been thinking about the spacer that goes on first when putting a shimano 10 sp cassette on a 8/9/10 sp freewheel. There isn't one for 9 sp.

Also you only need a long cage derailleur for bigger than a 28 with a double crankset.

 

[cluster blaster]

I just wanted to add my two cents:

Your mate is most likely right, you should not need a long cage RD with 12-27 casette. I have myself changed my casette to 12-28 a while ago and it works fine with the short cage RD. I also ride "double" at the front.
I recon you go to that shop and ask "please explain"....

I'm going to head to the bike shop and have a word with them. My mates told me they sold me the unnecessary long cage RD and chain to go with the 12-27 casette that i wanted.

 

[su22]

Problem fixed: one of the springs inside my Mavic Kysrium elite rear wheel was missing, so the ratchet and pall system wasn't working properly when i freewheeled at speed.

I took my bike to Ryan from ProMotion in Ormond (Vic), who'd had the problem before with ksyriums. He's put a spring back in. There was nothing wrong with the freebody or casette. I picked the bike up tonight and will take it for a quick spin tomorrow morning.

I'll be hitting the hills again this weekend, and hopefully the hum/vibration won't ever sound again when I descend.

Culprit bikeshop: Cecil Walker. Technically they probably did the right thing by selling me a long cage RD and chain, so they wouldn't be liable if i kept my short-cage RD with 12-27 and something went wrong. But I'm not keen to defend their position.

I got on the net and tried to figure out the capacity thing for rear derailleurs, but the equations stumped me and i didn't quite grasp the mechanics. ProMotion said you could get away with a 30 tooth cog with a shortcage!! But that's really stretching it, and you definitely wouldn't want to be putting it on big cog/little cog.

Huge thanks for your replies

 

[gclark8]

Shimano 6500 RD, See: http://www.shimano.com.au/publish/c...r.0008.Schematic.0025.File.tmp/rd_6500_si.pdf

http://www.shimano.com.au/publish/c...r.0008.Schematic.0010.File.tmp/rd_6500_ev.pdf

Well done on the wheel fix!! Stay with these guys for service!!

 

[thomas_cho]

Shimano 6500 RD, See: http://www.shimano.com.au/publish/content/australia/en/cycling/customer_support/service_diagrams/road_2004.MainContentPar.0008.Schematic.0025.File.tmp/rd_6500_si.pdf

http://www.shimano.com.au/publish/content/australia/en/cycling/customer_support/service_diagrams/road_2004.MainContentPar.0008.Schematic.0010.File.tmp/rd_6500_ev.pdf

Well done on the wheel fix!! Stay with these guys for service!!

According to the manufacturer's specifications, you did not need a new derailleur. I still think you should just go and request a full refund, or demand to know the reason why they suggested the change, when clearly the 27 is well within Shimano's specification.

Nevertheless at least you found a mechanic who knows their stuff. I have had bad encounters with bike mechanics who spun me a yarn, and did shoddy work, I now prefer to read up more about the servicing I need before going to the mechanic.

 

[artemidorus]

Culprit bikeshop: Cecil Walker. Technically they probably did the right thing by selling me a long cage RD and chain, so they wouldn't be liable if i kept my short-cage RD with 12-27 and something went wrong. But I'm not keen to defend their position.

Technically, or any other way you look at it, they are in the wrong. It would be nice if you didn't let them get away with it.

Anyway, it's good that your problem is sorted.

 

[su22]

Shimano 6500 RD, See: http://www.shimano.com.au/publish/c...r.0008.Schematic.0025.File.tmp/rd_6500_si.pdf

http://www.shimano.com.au/publish/c...r.0008.Schematic.0010.File.tmp/rd_6500_ev.pdf

Well done on the wheel fix!! Stay with these guys for service!!

Geez thanks George, i can't believe Cecil Walker had the nerve to blatantly rip me off when Shimano's specifications are crystal clear. My 27T cog clearly is within the range of a shortcage RD!!!!!!!!!!! I've got the ultegra 6500 RD

Tim at cecil is going to get a hammering. if they don't give me my money back, I'm going to take this to VCAT. It should be a pretty straight forward claim if they decide to be a*seholes about a refund.

BUT... THE PROBLEM WASN'T THE WHEEL

In case someone gets the same problem in future, my hum/vibration didn't go away after the mavic wheel was fixed. After the service and replacement of a spring in the wheel, i got the sound again while freewheeling during a short, flat 1hour ride, hitting a max speed of only 48kmh.

I went to see Ryan at ProMotion again, who changed my bearings, freebody, hubs. He didn't charge me for labour, just parts. I rode Mt Donna Buang yesterday (av grad 6% for about 17km) and was really relieved that the vibration didn't come back during the descent. I would have been dead scared descending on wheels that vibrate.

The sound quality of the Mavic wheel 'click' is different now. It's not a bright, sharp tick-tick-tick like it used to be, but more of a quiet "tock-tock". End of story, thank heavens, Ryan at ProMotion rocks. If you get a hum and it's not your Mavic wheel, get your bearings/freebody looked at.

Finally, for Shimano components at least, don't shop at Cecil. Someone mentioned before that they must be campag dealers. You're right.

 

[kleng]

Hey Su22

Since your a fellow giant and shimano rider, if you haven't already done so you should check out CBD cycles in the city at 50 Burke St, Spring St end.

They are purely a GIANT and Shimano shop, and since all the guys and gals
are roadies and all ride the high end GIANTS, they know what there talking about. They were the only shop willing to explain the differences when I went shopping for a new bike recently, they also gave a discount without asking on the bike I eventually got.

Went in to Cecil Walker a few times and found them to be a bit behind the times and always just looking to make a quick buck. Tried to sell me a Bianch Carbon bike off the floor when I really wanted to order something else. Did not listen to what I wanted, so I went to CBD and got a carbon GIANT instead.

Mark at "Spoken" is also good value and always goes out of his way to check things if he doesn't know off hand.

Regards
Ken

Geez thanks George, i can't believe Cecil Walker had the nerve to blatantly rip me off when Shimano's specifications are crystal clear. My 27T cog clearly is within the range of a shortcage RD!!!!!!!!!!! I've got the ultegra 6500 RD

Tim at cecil is going to get a hammering. if they don't give me my money back, I'm going to take this to VCAT. It should be a pretty straight forward claim if they decide to be a*seholes about a refund.

BUT... THE PROBLEM WASN'T THE WHEEL

In case someone gets the same problem in future, my hum/vibration didn't go away after the mavic wheel was fixed. After the service and replacement of a spring in the wheel, i got the sound again while freewheeling during a short, flat 1hour ride, hitting a max speed of only 48kmh.

I went to see Ryan at ProMotion again, who changed my bearings, freebody, hubs. He didn't charge me for labour, just parts. I rode Mt Donna Buang yesterday (av grad 6% for about 17km) and was really relieved that the vibration didn't come back during the descent. I would have been dead scared descending on wheels that vibrate.

The sound quality of the Mavic wheel 'click' is different now. It's not a bright, sharp tick-tick-tick like it used to be, but more of a quiet "tock-tock". End of story, thank heavens, Ryan at ProMotion rocks. If you get a hum and it's not your Mavic wheel, get your bearings/freebody looked at.

Finally, for Shimano components at least, don't shop at Cecil. Someone mentioned before that they must be campag dealers. You're right.