Pre-built wheels vs. building a set

[Sandy]

Dans le message de
news:[email protected],
[email protected] <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et puis a
déclaré :
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> Performance Recod Open Pro wheels. $300 retail price before coupon
> codes and rebates. $18 additional ground shipping.
> The wheels are Mavic Open Pro rims. Silver. 32 spoke. 14/15 double
> butted Wheelsmith spokes. Brass nipples. 3 cross. Thread locking
> compound,
> assume Wheelsmith's stuff, on the spoke threads.
>
> Rear Wheel: 907 grams, NO QUICK RELEASE
> Front Wheel: 770 grams, NO QUICK RELEASE
> Rear Quick Release: 68 grams
> Front Quick Release: 63 grams
> Cassette Lockring: 20 grams
>
> Rear wheel weight compares pretty favorably with the various factory
> built boutique type wheels. Front wheel is 100+ grams heavier than
> many factory boutique wheels.

I'm not quite there, yet...

What makes these different from factory boutique wheels ?
Are these plain factory store wheels ?
Are they laced and tensioned and trued by hand ? By elves ?
So are lots of factory boutique wheels, and many of them sell (real world
market prices) for less.
I thought it was the build and builder that makes a good wheel, not just
components.
--
Bonne route !

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

 

[[email protected]]

Sandy wrote:
> Dans le message de
> news:[email protected],
> [email protected] <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et puis a
> déclaré :
> > [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > Performance Recod Open Pro wheels. $300 retail price before coupon
> > codes and rebates. $18 additional ground shipping.
> > The wheels are Mavic Open Pro rims. Silver. 32 spoke. 14/15 double
> > butted Wheelsmith spokes. Brass nipples. 3 cross. Thread locking
> > compound,
> > assume Wheelsmith's stuff, on the spoke threads.
> >
> > Rear Wheel: 907 grams, NO QUICK RELEASE
> > Front Wheel: 770 grams, NO QUICK RELEASE
> > Rear Quick Release: 68 grams
> > Front Quick Release: 63 grams
> > Cassette Lockring: 20 grams
> >
> > Rear wheel weight compares pretty favorably with the various factory
> > built boutique type wheels. Front wheel is 100+ grams heavier than
> > many factory boutique wheels.
>
> I'm not quite there, yet...
>
> What makes these different from factory boutique wheels ?
> Are these plain factory store wheels ?
> Are they laced and tensioned and trued by hand ? By elves ?
> So are lots of factory boutique wheels, and many of them sell (real world
> market prices) for less.
> I thought it was the build and builder that makes a good wheel, not just
> components.
> --
> Bonne route !
>
> Sandy
> Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

Wheels that fit into the factory built boutique category are ones
requiring proprietary components such as 26 or 22 hole rims and hubs,
straight pull spokes threaded on both ends or just one end with a
straight elbow on the other. Parts that your local bike shop does not
carry in stock. Stuff you cannot order from Nashbar and Performance.
Stuff you cannot go to your local bike shop and buy on the spot with no
advance notice or ordering. I can buy Open Pro 32 hole rims at every
bike shop in my town. 14/15 double butted spokes are 50 cents each
locally. Record hubs would be hard to come by locally since the
factory bike shops in my town are exclusively that other company. But
I can order them from many mail order places.

Whether trued and laced by machine or human is not relevant. Just that
they are true and stay true. Makes no difference how the result is
accomplished.

As for selling for less, no. Not even in Europe. I paid $261,
delivered, for wheels with Record hubs. Campagnolo Proton use Chorus
hubs. Proton wheelset at Nashbar is $440, less 10% coupon, plus
shipping. $414. Similar weights. $153 difference in price though.
Neutron is the Campagnolo wheelset that uses Record hubs and has a
similar rim to Open Pro. Much more expensive. But if you know of
Record or Chorus hub Campagnolo wheelsets for around $260 delivered,
please tell me where so I can get a set.

 

[Sandy]

Dans le message de
news:[email protected],
[email protected] <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et puis a
déclaré :
> Sandy wrote:
>> Dans le message de
>> news:[email protected],
>> [email protected] <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et
>> puis a déclaré :
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>> Performance Recod Open Pro wheels. $300 retail price before coupon
>>> codes and rebates. $18 additional ground shipping.
>>> The wheels are Mavic Open Pro rims. Silver. 32 spoke. 14/15
>>> double butted Wheelsmith spokes. Brass nipples. 3 cross. Thread
>>> locking compound,
>>> assume Wheelsmith's stuff, on the spoke threads.
>>>
>>> Rear Wheel: 907 grams, NO QUICK RELEASE
>>> Front Wheel: 770 grams, NO QUICK RELEASE
>>> Rear Quick Release: 68 grams
>>> Front Quick Release: 63 grams
>>> Cassette Lockring: 20 grams
>>>
>>> Rear wheel weight compares pretty favorably with the various factory
>>> built boutique type wheels. Front wheel is 100+ grams heavier than
>>> many factory boutique wheels.
>>
>> I'm not quite there, yet...
>>
>> What makes these different from factory boutique wheels ?
>> Are these plain factory store wheels ?
>> Are they laced and tensioned and trued by hand ? By elves ?
>> So are lots of factory boutique wheels, and many of them sell (real
>> world market prices) for less.
>> I thought it was the build and builder that makes a good wheel, not
>> just components.
>> --
>> Bonne route !
>>
>> Sandy
>> Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
>
> Wheels that fit into the factory built boutique category are ones
> requiring proprietary components such as 26 or 22 hole rims and hubs,
> straight pull spokes threaded on both ends or just one end with a
> straight elbow on the other. Parts that your local bike shop does not
> carry in stock. Stuff you cannot order from Nashbar and Performance.
> Stuff you cannot go to your local bike shop and buy on the spot with
> no advance notice or ordering. I can buy Open Pro 32 hole rims at
> every bike shop in my town. 14/15 double butted spokes are 50 cents
> each locally. Record hubs would be hard to come by locally since the
> factory bike shops in my town are exclusively that other company. But
> I can order them from many mail order places.

Comparing apples and apples, mostly :

A couple of weeks ago I got Ventos for 112 euros (NVA included)
Tonight I got a Protons for my wife's bike for 150 euros, with tires and
tubes (TVA included)
Both have standard spokes and nipples. Both factory made by the guys who
make the hubs you laud.
All came nicely round and tensioned.
Bad deal, you think ? I don't think so. Two year warranty also.

> Whether trued and laced by machine or human is not relevant. Just
> that they are true and stay true. Makes no difference how the result
> is accomplished.

You are a REBEL on this forum. You forgot the party line here. I applaud
your courage.


--
Bonne route !

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

 

[[email protected]]

Sandy wrote:
> Dans le message de
> news:[email protected],
> [email protected] <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et puis a
> déclaré :
> > Sandy wrote:
> >> Dans le message de
> >> news:[email protected],
> >> [email protected] <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et
> >> puis a déclaré :
> >>> [email protected] wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Performance Recod Open Pro wheels. $300 retail price before coupon
> >>> codes and rebates. $18 additional ground shipping.
> >>> The wheels are Mavic Open Pro rims. Silver. 32 spoke. 14/15
> >>> double butted Wheelsmith spokes. Brass nipples. 3 cross. Thread
> >>> locking compound,
> >>> assume Wheelsmith's stuff, on the spoke threads.
> >>>
> >>> Rear Wheel: 907 grams, NO QUICK RELEASE
> >>> Front Wheel: 770 grams, NO QUICK RELEASE
> >>> Rear Quick Release: 68 grams
> >>> Front Quick Release: 63 grams
> >>> Cassette Lockring: 20 grams
> >>>
> >>> Rear wheel weight compares pretty favorably with the various factory
> >>> built boutique type wheels. Front wheel is 100+ grams heavier than
> >>> many factory boutique wheels.
> >>
> >> I'm not quite there, yet...
> >>
> >> What makes these different from factory boutique wheels ?
> >> Are these plain factory store wheels ?
> >> Are they laced and tensioned and trued by hand ? By elves ?
> >> So are lots of factory boutique wheels, and many of them sell (real
> >> world market prices) for less.
> >> I thought it was the build and builder that makes a good wheel, not
> >> just components.
> >> --
> >> Bonne route !
> >>
> >> Sandy
> >> Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
> >
> > Wheels that fit into the factory built boutique category are ones
> > requiring proprietary components such as 26 or 22 hole rims and hubs,
> > straight pull spokes threaded on both ends or just one end with a
> > straight elbow on the other. Parts that your local bike shop does not
> > carry in stock. Stuff you cannot order from Nashbar and Performance.
> > Stuff you cannot go to your local bike shop and buy on the spot with
> > no advance notice or ordering. I can buy Open Pro 32 hole rims at
> > every bike shop in my town. 14/15 double butted spokes are 50 cents
> > each locally. Record hubs would be hard to come by locally since the
> > factory bike shops in my town are exclusively that other company. But
> > I can order them from many mail order places.
>
> Comparing apples and apples, mostly :
>
> A couple of weeks ago I got Ventos for 112 euros (NVA included)

2006 Ventos appear to be Centaur hubs. Not Chorus or Record. But for
about $140 per pair, that sounds like a great deal. You are talking
about a pair price? Add $25 or so shipping to the US.

> Tonight I got a Protons for my wife's bike for 150 euros, with tires and
> tubes (TVA included)

$188 plus shipping to the US sounds pretty great. You are talking
about a pair of wheels? Chorus hubs, but more than good enough. Where
did you buy these?

> Both have standard spokes and nipples.

Yes standard spokes and nipples which is good. But the Protons use 22
hole rims front and 24 hole rims rear. Not exactly easy to find rims.
And the Ventos use that odd G3 spacing on the rims. Not standard.
These definitely fit into the factory boutique category due to the rims
being non standard.


Both factory made by the guys who
> make the hubs you laud.
> All came nicely round and tensioned.
> Bad deal, you think ? I don't think so. Two year warranty also.
>
> > Whether trued and laced by machine or human is not relevant. Just
> > that they are true and stay true. Makes no difference how the result
> > is accomplished.
>
> You are a REBEL on this forum. You forgot the party line here. I applaud
> your courage.
>
>
> --
> Bonne route !
>
> Sandy
> Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

 

[Sandy]

Dans le message de
news:[email protected],
[email protected] <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et puis a
déclaré :
> Sandy wrote:
>> Dans le message de
>> news:[email protected],
>> [email protected] <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et
>> puis a déclaré :
>>> Sandy wrote:
>>>> Dans le message de
>>>> news:[email protected],
>>>> [email protected] <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et
>>>> puis a déclaré :
>>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Performance Recod Open Pro wheels. $300 retail price before
>>>>> coupon codes and rebates. $18 additional ground shipping.
>>>>> The wheels are Mavic Open Pro rims. Silver. 32 spoke. 14/15
>>>>> double butted Wheelsmith spokes. Brass nipples. 3 cross. Thread
>>>>> locking compound,
>>>>> assume Wheelsmith's stuff, on the spoke threads.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rear Wheel: 907 grams, NO QUICK RELEASE
>>>>> Front Wheel: 770 grams, NO QUICK RELEASE
>>>>> Rear Quick Release: 68 grams
>>>>> Front Quick Release: 63 grams
>>>>> Cassette Lockring: 20 grams
>>>>>
>>>>> Rear wheel weight compares pretty favorably with the various
>>>>> factory built boutique type wheels. Front wheel is 100+ grams
>>>>> heavier than many factory boutique wheels.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not quite there, yet...
>>>>
>>>> What makes these different from factory boutique wheels ?
>>>> Are these plain factory store wheels ?
>>>> Are they laced and tensioned and trued by hand ? By elves ?
>>>> So are lots of factory boutique wheels, and many of them sell (real
>>>> world market prices) for less.
>>>> I thought it was the build and builder that makes a good wheel, not
>>>> just components.
>>>> --
>>>> Bonne route !
>>>>
>>>> Sandy
>>>> Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
>>>
>>> Wheels that fit into the factory built boutique category are ones
>>> requiring proprietary components such as 26 or 22 hole rims and
>>> hubs, straight pull spokes threaded on both ends or just one end
>>> with a straight elbow on the other. Parts that your local bike
>>> shop does not carry in stock. Stuff you cannot order from Nashbar
>>> and Performance. Stuff you cannot go to your local bike shop and
>>> buy on the spot with no advance notice or ordering. I can buy Open
>>> Pro 32 hole rims at every bike shop in my town. 14/15 double
>>> butted spokes are 50 cents each locally. Record hubs would be hard
>>> to come by locally since the factory bike shops in my town are
>>> exclusively that other company. But I can order them from many
>>> mail order places.
>>
>> Comparing apples and apples, mostly :
>>
>> A couple of weeks ago I got Ventos for 112 euros (NVA included)
>
> 2006 Ventos appear to be Centaur hubs. Not Chorus or Record. But for
> about $140 per pair, that sounds like a great deal. You are talking
> about a pair price? Add $25 or so shipping to the US.
>
>> Tonight I got a Protons for my wife's bike for 150 euros, with tires
>> and tubes (TVA included)
>
> $188 plus shipping to the US sounds pretty great. You are talking
> about a pair of wheels? Chorus hubs, but more than good enough.
> Where did you buy these?

Just local buys. This is our "on-sale" season. 2005 models, if that makes
a diff.
>
>> Both have standard spokes and nipples.
>
> Yes standard spokes and nipples which is good. But the Protons use 22
> hole rims front and 24 hole rims rear. Not exactly easy to find rims.
> And the Ventos use that odd G3 spacing on the rims. Not standard.
> These definitely fit into the factory boutique category due to the
> rims being non standard.
>
>
> Both factory made by the guys who
>> make the hubs you laud.
>> All came nicely round and tensioned.
>> Bad deal, you think ? I don't think so. Two year warranty also.
>>
>>> Whether trued and laced by machine or human is not relevant. Just
>>> that they are true and stay true. Makes no difference how the
>>> result is accomplished.
>>
>> You are a REBEL on this forum. You forgot the party line here. I
>> applaud your courage.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bonne route !
>>
>> Sandy
>> Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

I thought my signature line shows where I am writing from.
1 - France
2 - we have 19,6% TVA on top - you would have that rebated if you made a
distance purchase, then add freight.
3 - I have no idea how your customs deals with little shipments. Here, they
like every cent.

 

[Michael Press]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Sandy" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Dans le message de
> news:[email protected],
> [email protected] <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et puis a
> déclaré :


[...]

> > Wheels that fit into the factory built boutique category are ones
> > requiring proprietary components such as 26 or 22 hole rims and hubs,
> > straight pull spokes threaded on both ends or just one end with a
> > straight elbow on the other. Parts that your local bike shop does not
> > carry in stock. Stuff you cannot order from Nashbar and Performance.
> > Stuff you cannot go to your local bike shop and buy on the spot with
> > no advance notice or ordering. I can buy Open Pro 32 hole rims at
> > every bike shop in my town. 14/15 double butted spokes are 50 cents
> > each locally. Record hubs would be hard to come by locally since the
> > factory bike shops in my town are exclusively that other company. But
> > I can order them from many mail order places.
>
> Comparing apples and apples, mostly :
>
> A couple of weeks ago I got Ventos for 112 euros (NVA included)
> Tonight I got a Protons for my wife's bike for 150 euros, with tires and
> tubes (TVA included)
> Both have standard spokes and nipples. Both factory made by the guys who
> make the hubs you laud.
> All came nicely round and tensioned.
> Bad deal, you think ? I don't think so. Two year warranty also.
>
> > Whether trued and laced by machine or human is not relevant. Just
> > that they are true and stay true. Makes no difference how the result
> > is accomplished.
>
> You are a REBEL on this forum. You forgot the party line here. I applaud
> your courage.

The `party line':
Many wheels with `standard' components from well known
manufacturers arrive with insufficient grease in the hubs,
under tensioned spokes, and non-stress-relieved spokes.
When buying factory wheels one should grease the hubs,
bring the spokes up to tension, tension balance, stress
relieve, then true them. Factory wheels given this
treatment will run for thousands and thousands of trouble
free kilometers.

Where is your disclaimer of any derision and condemnation?

--
Michael Press