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questions about generator lights

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6 October 2005
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dvt
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  1. I have lots of questions about generator (dynamo) lights. They come from
    the root question: is a generator light right for me? I currently use a
    NiteRider Trail rat (10W halogen), but I want a second light system.
    I've never used a generator light system. Here are three specific
    questions...

    *1.* How do I spec out a system? I have a four mile commute each way.
    The morning ride has a 3-4 minute uphill that I ride around 10-12 mph.
    Of course, the evening ride goes down that hill at ~35 MPH. And there is
    at least one busy intersection that is completely unlit, so I think I'd
    like a standlight. Most of my commuting is on the road, although the
    shoulder is frequently strewn with debris on part of my commute. About
    half of my commute is in town (ambient light available), the rest is on
    dark roads.

    Here's my first guess at a system spec:
    -sidewall or bb generator like the Union sold by Yellow Jersey, $35
    including mounting hardware.
    -Lumotec Plus 170Di light w/standlight, $46 from Sheldon.
    -Lumotec Plus 170N with switch for high beam, $38 from Sheldon.

    I think I'll want a high beam (two lights) for my ~35 MPH descent. I'm
    not sure if the basic generators will drive two headlamps; if not, the
    cost will go up for a more expensive generator.

    *2.* How do I try out a decent generator light without coughing up the
    bucks for a system? I don't want to spend >$100 and be disappointed.

    *3.* Are there any comparisons of generator beam patterns to battery
    beam patterns? A beam pattern comparisons to my current light might go a
    long way towards answering question #2 above. I put two links below that
    have beam pattern photos, but one link has only battery lights and the
    other link has mostly generator lights.

    http://eddys.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=493
    http://www.fa-technik.adfc.de/Komponenten/Scheinwerfer/vergleich.htm

    I don't want to turn this into a generator vs. battery lights war, so
    let me say up front: I'd like the convenience of an always available
    light, and I'd like to leave my lights on the bike when I park it. My
    bike rack is pretty safe, but since the battery light is *so* easy to
    remove, I take it in the building. I'll keep the battery light to use
    with other bikes when the need arises, so I'll still have flexibility.

    Thanks for the advice.

    --
    Dave
    dvt at psu dot edu

  2. Your commute is relatively short so a ni-cad system is an okay way to
    go.

    The big advantage of generators is you always get power when you are
    moving. There is no need to remember to recharge your battery or to
    remember to bring it along. And you get power for all night rides.
    There just aren't any commercial rechargeable bike light systems that
    will last all night. Most are good for up to 3 or 4 hours at low beam
    setting, etc.. Good generators don't add a noticiable amount of drag.
    You are typically riding a little slower in the dark anyhow.

    There are many different kind of generators!

    1: The classic bottle shaped tire drive model. These are the worst
    ever. maximum mechanical drag in addtion to the electromagnetic drag
    created by the electricity being generated. Cheap. They wear out the
    side walls of your tires if you don't align them just right. I just
    bought a used bike where some previous owner had the drive wheel of the
    generator running of the rim inself! Arg. 1 ruined aluminum rim not
    to mention nearly no power because of the metal to metal slipping, and
    don't forget the noise! You can buy a rubber cap to put on the drive
    wheel that softens the contact area and increases the drive wheel
    diameter which means less voltage being generated.

    2: Hub generators. There have been many verisons. Sturmey Archer
    probably made the most. Very low power output. heavy. I convereted
    one to quick release and wired it into a Wonder light. I have a couple
    of others on old Raleigh 3speed bikes. Pretty worthless as far as the
    light output goes.
    Shimano has several models listed in their catalogs. Hard to find for
    sale in the USA.
    The best is the german make Schmidt. I got one for my wife for her
    'midnight century' rides. These are great hubs. About $200. Peter
    White Cycles is the usa distributor. This is a relly nicely made unit.
    I built up a spare wheel so we can just change out the wheel for the
    night rides. There is nearly no noticable mechanicial drag. You would
    not notice it while riding when the light is off. When the light is
    on, there is the electromagnetic drag which is not really noticable
    either. no noise! The hub is sealed up well enough so I don't think
    rain would affect it. For the power concious, a 3 watt generator would
    take 3 watts of your pedal power, plus a little extra for energy
    conversion. But you are probably putting over 100 watts into riding.
    okay thats highly subjective. 25+ for the super leisurely rider, to
    500+ for lance in a prolog.

    3: Bottom bracket generator. Sanyo made these nice units. The french
    coppied it: soubitouz (sp). This bolts on where a kickstand would go.
    It has a larger drive wheel than the bottle type. The generator is
    actually inside the drive wheel. Runs on the tread of the tire.
    Minimum mechanical drag. Pretty quiet. I used on for commuting for
    years. My only complaint was it would occasionally kick off when I hit
    a hard bump. that is a function of frame geometry, how close does the
    generator get mounted to the wheel. I got good at flipping the lever
    with my toe. I have seen some worn out from excess road debrie.

    4: I have another oddball generator. Mounts on the rear hub like a
    drum brake. Panasonic. I can't say this is any good. Lots of
    physical drag. Really heavy. Probably cuts 3-4 mph off my speed.
    Won't fit on many bikes because of clearance issues. Forget any
    aluminum bike, quick release wheel, etc.

    Most generators are rated at 6 volts, 3 watts. But that depends on
    speed. I do have a special bottle generator that is rated 12 volts for
    a florescent light.

    All generators make more voltage as you go faster. To keep bulbs from
    burning out at faster speeds (over ~~15-20 mph) you need a regulator.
    The ideal regulator is a Zener Diode. This is a special solid state
    diode that limits voltage to a preset level. They are available in
    countless voltages and power ratings. The alternatives to a zener is
    1: ride slower. 2: switch on more lights as you go faster. You will
    still burn out bulbs using these 2 methods.

    Peter White sells the Lumotec lights that have the zener diodes added
    inside.

    Also Peter White's website has a bunch of charts comparing drag, output
    vs speed for various products.

    Most generators will hit the prescribed 3 watts of output at about 12
    mph to 15 mph. If you are doing 35, that would power 3 head lights!

    My panasonic generator came with a tail & head light that also have a
    light sensitive switch, a regulator plus a capacator! This means the
    light only turns on at night plus the tail light stays on when I stop
    for a few minutes.

    My Sanyo came with a large head light that had regular batteries inside
    (2 D cells). It was designed to stay on at stops as well. I got this
    at sears, a different packaging from what the bike shops were selling
    way back then.

    Before you go off looking for these no-longer made models, you can mix
    and match. You can get the schmidt generator and connect it to any
    light. You can add your own regulator. You can do all this with the
    bottle generator too.

    I would not bother connecting a tail light up to a battery pack or
    generator. There are plenty of bright flashing tail lights on the
    market that would be better. Get the brightest. Get two! Make sure
    they are pointed straight back. They need to be visable by the drunk
    drivers 1 block behind you, not another cyclist just 5 feet behind you.
    Mount it on your bike where it won't get blocked by your seat bag,
    rack pack, panniers, etc. Keeping the tail lights out of the generator
    circuit has a big advantage, burn 1 bulb and the rest will go because
    of the sudden increase in available power. That would leave you with
    no lights....

    Light bulbs. Argon, Krypton, etc. That refers to the gas inside the
    bulb. Krypton bulbs are brighter for the same power than the old
    fashioned bulbs. New kid on the market are LED headlights. Okay for
    being seen but not great for lighting up the road way.

    Beam pattern has nothing to do with the power source. It's all about
    the shape and material of the reflector and lens. LED head lights are
    typically several leds so its nearly impossible to focus their output
    into a beam. I think Bicycling magazine did a beam pattern comparison
    a few years ago.

    Night riding means different lighting equipment depending on
    circumstances. A standard white reflector on the front of the bike
    will reflect more light from an oncoming car beam than just about any
    bike head light. if you are riding in front of a car, you are nearly
    invisable compared to that car's head lights, to oncoming traffic.
    This is a circumstance where a reflector is best. In town riding with
    lots of ambiant light means your head lights need to be extra bright to
    let you see the potholes. Ambiant light dialates your eyes making it
    harder to see in the dark. Reflectors in the wheels can't be seen from
    behind but can be seen well just before you get broadsided. Reflectors
    on helmets are totally useless. Cars approaching from behind typically
    have their low beams on which are pointed slightly downwards. Pedal
    reflectors are going to be seen first if your feet aren't too big or
    your seat isn't too low forcing your heals to block the line of sight
    to the reflectors. Of course reflectors don't let you see, but let you
    be seen which is very important.

    My wife organizes night rides a couple of time every year and I get to
    see first hand how bad most bike lighting equipment is, how bad you can
    install it, and how the riders think their stuff is great. A tail
    light cliped to a jersey pocket is the worst. Not the least bit
    visable when you are on the bike and the rider thinks he has some sort
    of warning device. A tail light blocked by a seat bag is useless. A
    tail light pointed up just 10 degrees won't be seen from very far away.
    I personally think flashing tail lights don't show up as well as a
    steady light. But do both!

    I'm testing out a semi truck trailer tail light. 27 LEDs powered by 6
    AA batteries. This is brighter than any commercial bike tail light.
    $30 total. The main problem is it's so big, it's hard to fit on a
    bike. 5-6" in diameter! I see you can now get LED tail lights for
    regular car tail lights. These would be easier to install on a bike
    since they are designed to fit in a small place.

    Rick

  3. "dvt" wrote...

    Quoted message said:

    I have lots of questions about generator (dynamo) lights. They come from
    the root question: is a generator light right for me? I currently use a
    NiteRider Trail rat (10W halogen), but I want a second light system. I've
    never used a generator light system. Here are three specific questions...

    *1.* How do I spec out a system? I have a four mile commute each way. The
    morning ride has a 3-4 minute uphill that I ride around 10-12 mph. Of
    course, the evening ride goes down that hill at ~35 MPH. And there is at
    least one busy intersection that is completely unlit, so I think I'd like
    a standlight. Most of my commuting is on the road, although the shoulder
    is frequently strewn with debris on part of my commute. About half of my
    commute is in town (ambient light available), the rest is on dark roads.

    Here's my first guess at a system spec:
    -sidewall or bb generator like the Union sold by Yellow Jersey, $35
    including mounting hardware.
    -Lumotec Plus 170Di light w/standlight, $46 from Sheldon.
    -Lumotec Plus 170N with switch for high beam, $38 from Sheldon.

    A hub generator will eliminate problems with tire wear, slipping when the
    tire is wet, etc. Shimano HB- NX30 is (I think) $60 at Harris
    Cyclery/Sheldon. Peter White Cycles (www.peterwhitecycles.com) will sell you
    a complete front wheel built around a HB-NX30 hub for $115 - 135 depending
    on spoke type and whether you get quick release or nutted. Shimano DH-3N70
    is a higher quality hub dynamo, better bearings, better seals, lighter.
    DH-3N70 generator hubs are $90 from Peter White Cycles or Sheldon. Dynamo
    hubs appear to offer a more consistent current output over a wider speed
    range than sidewall or bb generators, reducing problems with blown out bulbs
    on high speed descents.

    Quoted message said:


    I think I'll want a high beam (two lights) for my ~35 MPH descent. I'm not
    sure if the basic generators will drive two headlamps; if not, the cost
    will go up for a more expensive generator.

    The Schmidt hub generator (made in Germany, $209 from Peter White Cycles,
    very high quality) is commonly used to power two headlights. Schmidt also
    offers a headlight (E6Z) that is designed to be used as a secondary light in
    series with another light. The Schmidt lights offer a more tightly focused
    beam than the Lumotecs, giving a narrow, long range beam to complement the
    slightly more diffuse beam of the Lumotecs.

    I'm told that the Shimano DH-3N70 will power two headlights, but I haven't
    tried this yet.

    Quoted message said:


    *2.* How do I try out a decent generator light without coughing up the
    bucks for a system? I don't want to spend >$100 and be disappointed.

    I had a VistaLite Nightstick system until the batteries gave out and I got
    tired of gluing and duct taping the handlebar mounts together. I used a
    Cateye EL-300 which was barely adequate for my commute for a couple of years
    and then this summer I splurged on a Shimano DH-3N70 and a Lumotec Oval
    headlight. Expensive, but it's made my nighttime commute so much more
    enjoyable that I wish I had taken the plunge sooner.
    HTH,
    --
    mark

  4. Rick's reply item#3 "Kick stand generator". I liked them and wore out two of them through the steel jacket right to the windings.

    But now I'm a firm believer in low wattage lead gel battery power. 2-3 watts is enough to spots obstacles and be seen. Flashing LED lights front an rear are on full time. I turn off the headlight on long quiet stretches and ride by ambient light (LEDs on of course). KISS (Keep it simple stupid).😉

    I'm looking for an LED headlight that will work with lead gel.

    Hint, recharge a lead acid gel cell ONLY the approximate length of usage time. Overcharging spoils that battery technology.

    But sounds like you LOVE light and are having LOTS of FUN lighting up the bike ways!😄

  5. dvt said:

    I have lots of questions about generator (dynamo) lights. They come from
    the root question: is a generator light right for me? I currently use a
    NiteRider Trail rat (10W halogen), but I want a second light system.
    I've never used a generator light system. Here are three specific
    questions...

    *1.* How do I spec out a system? I have a four mile commute each way.
    The morning ride has a 3-4 minute uphill that I ride around 10-12 mph.
    Of course, the evening ride goes down that hill at ~35 MPH. And there is
    at least one busy intersection that is completely unlit, so I think I'd
    like a standlight. Most of my commuting is on the road, although the
    shoulder is frequently strewn with debris on part of my commute. About
    half of my commute is in town (ambient light available), the rest is on
    dark roads.

    A couple general comments: A 35 mph downhill isn't very common for
    most commuters. And if you climb it at 12 mph, you're a pretty strong
    climber.

    Regarding standlights: I use a separate AA-powered white blinky that I
    got as a gift. I think this is fine. In fact, before I got it, I
    thought reflectors alone were fine. After all, there's not much chance
    of a car coming at you head on while you're stopped. And reflectors
    are as bright as a standlight if they do.

    And I wouldn't bother with a generator taillight. LED blinkies work
    fine.

    Quoted message said:


    Here's my first guess at a system spec:
    -sidewall or bb generator like the Union sold by Yellow Jersey, $35
    including mounting hardware.
    -Lumotec Plus 170Di light w/standlight, $46 from Sheldon.
    -Lumotec Plus 170N with switch for high beam, $38 from Sheldon.

    I think I'll want a high beam (two lights) for my ~35 MPH descent. I'm
    not sure if the basic generators will drive two headlamps; if not, the
    cost will go up for a more expensive generator.

    Unfortunately, I don't think you'll be able to drive two lamps with a
    sidewall generator, especially a Union. Somebody may correct me (I
    haven't tried) but I'd expect the small diameter roller would lead to
    slip under the increased load. And the Union isn't tops for
    efficiency, so it's slip tendency would be higher than some.

    I do the two-headlamp trick with the old Soubitez bottom bracket
    generators I usually use. Of course, a hub generator would do this
    even better.

    Bottom bracket generators seem scarce these days. Besides The Yellow
    Jersey, I don't know of a source. Perhaps that one would drive two
    headlights - you might ask Andrew Muzi of The Yellow Jersey.

    Quoted message said:


    *2.* How do I try out a decent generator light without coughing up the
    bucks for a system? I don't want to spend >$100 and be disappointed.

    Tough one. I take it you don't know anybody with a generator set?

    Understand, the components are independent. As shown by
    http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/dynotest.html
    there's not _that_ much difference in generator power output; and the
    lamps can be changed. IME, lamp optics make more of a difference than
    generator power.

    You could, I suppose, spend $20 to $25 to check out a cheap *-mart
    generator set. The set will cost less, but you should fit it with a
    halogen bulb to give it a fair shake. I've installed a couple of these
    on other folks' bikes, and they've done surprisingly well. If you like
    that, you could shift it to a beater bike and install a better set on
    your 'good' bike.

    BTW, I think the lamps on my bike are the ones shown with the roller
    generator from Yellow Jersey. I really like the beam shape, although
    some may find the beam a bit narrow.

    Quoted message said:

    *3.* Are there any comparisons of generator beam patterns to battery
    beam patterns? A beam pattern comparisons to my current light might go a
    long way towards answering question #2 above. I put two links below that
    have beam pattern photos, but one link has only battery lights and the
    other link has mostly generator lights.

    Sorry, I don't know of a site that shows both.

    You might tell where you're located. If you were _really_ lucky, a
    generator user on this list might be able to show you his system on a
    ride.

    If I were buying a set right now, I'd probably go with the Shimano hub
    unit and build my own wheel. Unless I was feeling unusually wealthy,
    then I'd go with the Schmidt, for sure. I'd probably use the lamps I
    use now, though. And I'd do my own switches and my own zener diodes,
    as I did for my present setup.

    Good luck.

    - Frank Krygowski

  6. mark said:

    A hub generator will eliminate problems with tire wear, slipping when the
    tire is wet, etc.

    And as the snipped part of your post shows, a hub generator is an
    expensive way to get started. Maybe it's the only way, since I ride year
    round, including snowy days with my studded Nokians. But it sure is an
    expensive experiment.

    --
    Dave
    dvt at psu dot edu

  7. Quoting dvt <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Of course, the evening ride goes down that hill at ~35 MPH. And there is
    at least one busy intersection that is completely unlit, so I think I'd
    like a standlight.

    I wouldn't take that as a given. A small LED battery light serves the same
    purpose if you decide you prefer the beam of a standlightless headlight -
    the Schmidt E6 suits me very well, but is not exactly cheap, alas - and
    provides an emergency backup just in case...
    --
    David Damerell <[email hidden]> Kill the tomato!
    Today is Second Gouday, September.

  8. Quoted message said:
    dvt said:

    I have lots of questions about generator (dynamo) lights. They come from
    the root question: is a generator light right for me? I currently use a
    NiteRider Trail rat (10W halogen), but I want a second light system.
    I've never used a generator light system. Here are three specific
    questions...

    *1.* How do I spec out a system? I have a four mile commute each way.
    The morning ride has a 3-4 minute uphill that I ride around 10-12 mph.
    Of course, the evening ride goes down that hill at ~35 MPH. And there is
    at least one busy intersection that is completely unlit, so I think I'd
    like a standlight. Most of my commuting is on the road, although the
    shoulder is frequently strewn with debris on part of my commute. About
    half of my commute is in town (ambient light available), the rest is on
    dark roads.

    A couple general comments: A 35 mph downhill isn't very common for
    most commuters. And if you climb it at 12 mph, you're a pretty strong
    climber.

    A few notes: I get into the full tuck on the descent (knees in chest,
    chin near bars). I am a fairly fit guy, and I was known as a climber in
    my racing days. I don't climb as fast as I used to, but I still get up
    hills faster than most. The ascent is quite certainly 10-12 mph, and the
    descent is certainly over 30 mph, probably more like 35.

    Quoted message said:

    Regarding standlights: I use a separate AA-powered white blinky that I
    got as a gift. I think this is fine. In fact, before I got it, I
    thought reflectors alone were fine. After all, there's not much chance
    of a car coming at you head on while you're stopped. And reflectors
    are as bright as a standlight if they do.

    I'd like to have a standlight so cars see me starting out from the stop
    sign. A little extra insurance in case I screw up and pull out in front
    of someone. And if I had a separate blinky, I'd be back to the old "take
    the lights off when I park" routine.

    Quoted message said:

    And I wouldn't bother with a generator taillight. LED blinkies work
    fine.

    Yes, I plan to stick with that for now.

    Quoted message said:

    I do the two-headlamp trick with the old Soubitez bottom bracket
    generators I usually use.

    That's good to know. If you were doing a fast descent as part of your
    daily commute, do you think one headlamp would suffice?

    Quoted message said:

    Bottom bracket generators seem scarce these days. Besides The Yellow
    Jersey, I don't know of a source. Perhaps that one would drive two
    headlights - you might ask Andrew Muzi of The Yellow Jersey.

    Yep, if he doesn't see this thread, I intend to ask him a few questions.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    *2.* How do I try out a decent generator light without coughing up the
    bucks for a system? I don't want to spend >$100 and be disappointed.

    Quoted message said:

    Tough one. I take it you don't know anybody with a generator set?

    I know one guy, but he's much shorter than I and his bike is far too
    small for me. I guess I could try the descent, since that's the part
    that worries me most.

    Quoted message said:

    You could, I suppose, spend $20 to $25 to check out a cheap *-mart
    generator set. The set will cost less, but you should fit it with a
    halogen bulb to give it a fair shake.

    I thought of that. I figured the optics might be inferior and give me a
    bad impression of the light quality expected from such systems. Comments?

    Quoted message said:

    BTW, I think the lamps on my bike are the ones shown with the roller
    generator from Yellow Jersey. I really like the beam shape, although
    some may find the beam a bit narrow.

    Also good to know. That's an inexpensive set compared to the hub
    generator setups that I've looked at.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    *3.* Are there any comparisons of generator beam patterns to battery
    beam patterns?

    Quoted message said:

    Sorry, I don't know of a site that shows both.

    A thought just occured to me... perhaps I could use my existing 6V
    battery (NiteRider Trail Rat) and power one or two generator type
    headlamps. I think I might be able to tell if the light output were
    appropriate. If only I can find a connector to mate up with that battery...

    Thanks for your comments, all.

    --
    Dave
    dvt at psu dot edu

  9. In article <[email hidden]>, dvt <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    I have lots of questions about generator (dynamo) lights. They come from
    the root question: is a generator light right for me? I currently use a
    NiteRider Trail rat (10W halogen), but I want a second light system.
    I've never used a generator light system. Here are three specific
    questions...

    *1.* How do I spec out a system? I have a four mile commute each way.
    The morning ride has a 3-4 minute uphill that I ride around 10-12 mph.
    Of course, the evening ride goes down that hill at ~35 MPH. And there is
    at least one busy intersection that is completely unlit, so I think I'd
    like a standlight. Most of my commuting is on the road, although the
    shoulder is frequently strewn with debris on part of my commute. About
    half of my commute is in town (ambient light available), the rest is on
    dark roads.

    I had used both battery and generator lighting systems (currently on a
    Schmidt/Lumotec system -- it's the best!) and I found that, for a short
    commute trip like yours, you may want to complement a cheap light
    generator with your current NiteRider. You save the batteries for the
    downhill ride at night where you need it the most or a backup to your
    generator light if ever the light bulb burns out (and they do more
    quickly than normal battery operated bulbs do -- at least with both my
    Lumotec and Sanden)

    Hub vs Sidewall..

    Hub generators are the best, expecially when commuting in the rain.
    Constant light output without the dynamo slipping occassionally from
    the sidewall is a plus with the hub. And they are self contained with
    little maintenance needed. However, certain hub generators made by
    Shimano have certain amount of drag even riding with the light turned
    off. The only smooth rolling hub generator that doesn't drag is the
    Schmidt. Even with the lights turned on, the drag on the Schmidt is so
    minimal, it's years ahead of the Shimano -- that's why it's very
    expensive.

    The only sidewall generator I had used was that made by Sanden and sold
    by http://www.bikelite.com. It's made in Japan and quality is superb.
    It runs off your rim's sidewall, rolls well and can be adjusted for
    drag (more drag more light). It's very bright at night and it's
    brighter when you're bombing down the hill. The life on the bulb
    itself is the same as on my Lumotec. However, if you're totally
    concerned with drag especially if you need to commute long distance to
    and from work (mine is 20miles each way), then my recommendation would
    be for the Schmidt. Otherwise, the Sanden is a cheap but effective way
    to have a generator on your bike..

    For a stand by light. Get a cheap white blinker and mount it on your
    handle bar.

    Hope this helps.

    David.

  10. Quoted message said:

    After all, there's not much chance
    of a car coming at you head on while you're stopped.

    Say what?

    Jasper

  11. dvt said:

    A thought just occured to me... perhaps I could use my existing 6V
    battery (NiteRider Trail Rat) and power one or two generator type
    headlamps. I think I might be able to tell if the light output were
    appropriate. If only I can find a connector to mate up with that battery...

    You certainly should be able to do that, almost all generators of whatever
    kind are standardised on 6V/3W loads (generally a 2.4W front and .6W rear
    in parallel). The bulbs will last longer and give slightly less
    illumination at high speeds, since high speed riding with a generator
    overvolts the bulbs.

    Jasper

  12. Jasper Janssen said:
    Quoted message said:

    After all, there's not much chance
    of a car coming at you head on while you're stopped.

    Say what?

    When I'm stopped in the right hand lane, a car coming head-on at me
    would have to be driving on the wrong side of the road. There's not
    much chance of that.

    If a motorist is coming from my right and making a left turn into the
    street where I'm waiting, he could cut the corner, I suppose - but
    that's more an argument for some side reflectors than for a relatively
    weak standlight. And, perhaps, for waiting a little further back from
    the intersection.

    The only time I think there's a non-trivial probability of a head-on
    crash while I'm stationary, is when I'm in the center turning lane of a
    five lane arterial. That lane serves left turners from both
    directions. I do this every time I ride home from work, and many times
    besides. I generally time it so I'm still moving forward as I wait for
    oncoming traffic to clear.

    - Frank Krygowski

  13. "dvt" wrote ...

    Quoted message said:


    And as the snipped part of your post shows, a hub generator is an
    expensive way to get started. Maybe it's the only way, since I ride year
    round, including snowy days with my studded Nokians. But it sure is an
    expensive experiment.

    --
    Dave
    dvt at psu dot edu

    I agree, it is an expensive experiement. That's why I dealt with the Cateye
    for so long after giving up on the nightstick. I took the plunge after
    Shimano started importing hub generators, which brought the price down a
    fair bit from grey market levels. I've been posting my experience on various
    NGs to give people some idea of how my experience.
    --
    mark

  14. Jasper Janssen said:
    dvt said:

    A thought just occured to me... perhaps I could use my existing 6V
    battery (NiteRider Trail Rat) and power one or two generator type
    headlamps. I think I might be able to tell if the light output were
    appropriate. If only I can find a connector to mate up with that battery...

    You certainly should be able to do that, almost all generators of whatever
    kind are standardised on 6V/3W loads (generally a 2.4W front and .6W rear
    in parallel). The bulbs will last longer and give slightly less
    illumination at high speeds, since high speed riding with a generator
    overvolts the bulbs.

    Not really, at least not for the good generator light systems; they
    have diodes for overvoltage protection.

    - rick

  15. David said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, dvt <[email hidden]>
    wrote:

    I had used both battery and generator lighting systems (currently on a
    Schmidt/Lumotec system -- it's the best!) and I found that, for a short
    commute trip like yours, you may want to complement a cheap light
    generator with your current NiteRider. You save the batteries for the
    downhill ride at night where you need it the most or a backup to your
    generator light if ever the light bulb burns out (and they do more
    quickly than normal battery operated bulbs do -- at least with both my
    Lumotec and Sanden)

    We have 3 generator hub system:

    1) Schmidt Hub, Lumotec Oval Plus (with standlight)+Schmidt E6
    2) Schmidt Hub, Lumotec+Schmidt E6
    3) Shimano DH-3N71 Hub, Lumotec Senso Oval Plus (w/
    standlight)+Lumotec

    They are all great, plenty of light for my suburban/rural commuting and
    touring (dark un-lit tunnels in Europe, e.g.). The bulbs last an
    average of about 100 hours of use time; I always carry 2-3 on the bike,
    takes me a minute tops to change a bulb so not an issue.

    Quoted message said:

    Hub vs Sidewall..

    Years ago I used a sidewall generator ... in snowy country no less. It
    was a pain is some ways - drag, wear on the tire sidewalls, slippage,
    etc. That said, some folks I really trust say some of the new sidewall
    generators, e.g., the Dymotec S6 (pricey ... $175 or so) or Dymotec 6
    (reasonable, $50-60) are really good and work well if snow is not an
    issue.

    Quoted message said:

    For a stand by light. Get a cheap white blinker and mount it on your
    handle bar.

    I use a CatEye EL400 for this purpose. Small, light, efficient,
    doubles as a flashlight if I need to repair a flat. I was using a
    Princeton LED headlamp for that, but gave it to my wife.

    - rick

  16. Quoted message said:
    Jasper Janssen said:
    Quoted message said:

    After all, there's not much chance
    of a car coming at you head on while you're stopped.

    Say what?

    When I'm stopped in the right hand lane, a car coming head-on at me
    would have to be driving on the wrong side of the road. There's not
    much chance of that.

    Your faith in your fellow man is touching, but I'm wondering how you
    survive riding on the road if you're that trusting.

    Quoted message said:

    The only time I think there's a non-trivial probability of a head-on
    crash while I'm stationary, is when I'm in the center turning lane of a
    five lane arterial. That lane serves left turners from both
    directions.

    Whenever I hear about left side exits and all this kind of wacky [censored] I
    get the urge to call a friend of mine who works for We Build US Highways
    and shout at him.

    Quoted message said:

    I do this every time I ride home from work, and many times
    besides. I generally time it so I'm still moving forward as I wait for
    oncoming traffic to clear.

    But you'll still be going too slow to get decent light output with a
    generator, usually.

    Jasper

  17. Rick said:

    We have 3 generator hub system:

    1) Schmidt Hub, Lumotec Oval Plus (with standlight)+Schmidt E6
    2) Schmidt Hub, Lumotec+Schmidt E6
    3) Shimano DH-3N71 Hub, Lumotec Senso Oval Plus (w/
    standlight)+Lumotec

    They are all great, plenty of light for my suburban/rural commuting and
    touring (dark un-lit tunnels in Europe, e.g.).

    Do you notice any difference between the Schmidt and Shimano generators
    while riding? Which of the various lights you own produce the
    most/best light and/or pattern?

  18. David said:

    ...you may want to complement a cheap light
    generator with your current NiteRider.

    No, I would simply use the NiteRider rather than a complex setup like
    you describe. For me, your system encompasses the worst of both worlds
    -- lots of weight, extra drag, gotta take the light off at work, battery
    care woes, etc.

    Quoted message said:

    ...the light bulb burns out (and they do more
    quickly than normal battery operated bulbs do -- at least with both my
    Lumotec and Sanden)

    So that's still a problem, eh? I figured maybe the circuits in more
    recent headlamps would have that problem all but eliminated.

    Quoted message said:

    The only sidewall generator I had used was that made by Sanden and sold
    by http://www.bikelite.com. It's made in Japan and quality is superb.
    It runs off your rim's sidewall, rolls well and can be adjusted for
    drag (more drag more light).

    I had never seen those before. Thanks!

    Quoted message said:

    However, if you're totally
    concerned with drag especially if you need to commute long distance to
    and from work (mine is 20miles each way), then my recommendation would
    be for the Schmidt.

    I had a commute like yours for the past several years. But I moved this
    year, and my commute is much shorter. I think a little extra drag should
    be no big deal.

    --
    Dave
    dvt at psu dot edu

  19. Jasper Janssen said:
    Quoted message said:
    Jasper Janssen said:

    On 6 Oct 2005 22:04:31 -0700, [email hidden] wrote:

    > After all, there's not much chance
    >of a car coming at you head on while you're stopped.

    Say what?

    When I'm stopped in the right hand lane, a car coming head-on at me
    would have to be driving on the wrong side of the road. There's not
    much chance of that.

    Your faith in your fellow man is touching, but I'm wondering how you
    survive riding on the road if you're that trusting.

    Sharing the road with other users does require a degree of trust,
    misplaced as it often is. But the ability to partially trust and to
    assess risk allows us to get out there. Your comment makes me wonder
    how it is that you manage to ride at all. Wrong-way drivers are a tiny
    risk compared to others.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The only time I think there's a non-trivial probability of a head-on
    crash while I'm stationary, is when I'm in the center turning lane of a
    five lane arterial. That lane serves left turners from both
    directions.

    Whenever I hear about left side exits and all this kind of wacky [censored] I
    get the urge to call a friend of mine who works for We Build US Highways
    and shout at him.

    Left turn lanes which serve both directions were decried as insanely
    dangerous when they were introduced. But on the whole, they work well,
    and from the perspective of the left-turner, the turn lane provides much
    more of a refuge than being stopped in a travel lane waiting for a
    chance.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I do this every time I ride home from work, and many times
    besides. I generally time it so I'm still moving forward as I wait for
    oncoming traffic to clear.

    But you'll still be going too slow to get decent light output with a
    generator, usually.

    Agreed. And the use of a blinkie rather than a standlight is
    preferable. It's more visible, although only in some directions, its
    flashing communicates "bike", and it adds redundancy, a real safety
    benefit.

    Quoted message said:


    Jasper

    Ted

    --
    Ted Bennett

  20. Quoted message said:
    Rick said:

    We have 3 generator hub system:

    1) Schmidt Hub, Lumotec Oval Plus (with standlight)+Schmidt E6
    2) Schmidt Hub, Lumotec+Schmidt E6
    3) Shimano DH-3N71 Hub, Lumotec Senso Oval Plus (w/
    standlight)+Lumotec

    They are all great, plenty of light for my suburban/rural commuting and
    touring (dark un-lit tunnels in Europe, e.g.).

    Do you notice any difference between the Schmidt and Shimano generators
    while riding? Which of the various lights you own produce the
    most/best light and/or pattern?

    I'm a different responder. I can't speak to the Schmidt/Shimano
    difference (I use a Shimano 70) but I've played with several different
    headlights. The brightest, bar none, is the BiSy/Schmidt design, but
    it has a very narrow beam. That can be a pain on roads/trails that
    wind a lot. My main light is a Lumotec, which has a little more spill,
    as well as a good reflector. I find it most comfortable for commuting,
    etc. I have a Hella MicroFF as a backup. the light is more spread out
    than the other two, but given its tiny size, not bad. FWIW, I'm
    running the latter off a tiny Li-Ion battery pack that I adapted.

    I have also used 5- and 10-watt halogen systems. All of the above
    lights are superior to the MR-series 5w halogens I've used, and the
    BiSy and Lumotec (at least) are as good as or better than the 10w
    halogens.

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