quick everybody burn your helmets...

Haha lol!
Did not reed it all but can understand, realy stupid i think :P

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i am giving this guy the thumbs up.
He goes out and were's a bicycle helmet to see if people are more
likely to hit him.
Then just to make sure it wasnt just having something on his noggin he
dons a wig and rides of down the street. wow they gave him an extra 14
cm on average for wearing a wig.
but are wigs not meant to look like hair? thus would it maybe not
possible for the driver to notice whether he was wearing a wig or not?
(note i skimmed not read the article)

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That idea has been around ever since people started wearing cycling
helmets. People say that drivers see the cyclist as "protected" so
they don't need to be so careful when overtaking.

But cycling helmets aren't really intended to protect against being hit
by a vehicle - if a car hits you hard you're screwed whether you're
wearing a helmet or not. The type of accident cycling helmets are good
for is, for example, slipping on oil/ice/leaves and falling sideways,
hitting your head on the road. I was very glad of that last winter
when I hit some ice on the bike, but I don't expect it to save me if a
car hits me at high speed.

I used to be very anti-helmets (at least for road riding) but since I
got into the habit of wearing one I've had at least two accidents that
would have been worse (but probably not fatal) had I not been
helmetted.

Cue Ian Smith...

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rob.northcott

'Dartmoor Muni Weekend'
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andy parry said:

turns out helmets are dangerous!!!

more studenty types, making stupid claims based on dumb research...
GET A REAL JOB... Loser...

sorry... i didn't sleep well last night and this article anoyed me

Why did it annoy you? Do you think it doesn't make sense? It seems fair
enough to me that drivers might 'risk compensate' differently depending
on a cyclists appearance, this guy has found a way to measure it, and
found that his evidence supports this idea.

The wig thing is a bit bizarre though, I don't really understand why he
didn't just repeat the experiment with a female cyclist.

rob.northcott said:

Cue Ian Smith...

Noooo! The anti-helmet-arguer of doom!

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domesticated ape said:

..

The wig thing is a bit bizarre though, I don't really understand why he
didn't just repeat the experiment with a female cyclist.

He got knocked off twice during the experiment. It might not have been
very easy to get volunteers 🙂

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Well, I'd not be here today if I hadn't been wearing a cycle helmet as I
went over the bonnet of a car that hit me coming out of a side road. I
somersaulted and landed on my wrist, head and shoulder in succession.
The main conclusion of the exercise is NOT that helmets make it more
dangerous for cyclists, but that car drivers become more dangerous to
cyclists if they see a cycle helmet. It's more a problem of driver
education and not cyclist protection. A long time ago I read something
that a cyclist (Eddy Merkx, I think) said to car drivers - "Give
cyclists room to fall off in."

Jerry Attrick (uni newbie)

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We should all ride naked. Then we would be invulnerable.

--Tom

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andy parry said:

And any research and that could influence people to take to the
roads
on a bike or uni with out a helmet seems rather daft and
irresponsible.
is this fella doing this for the good of cyclistist and road safty or
trying to get
papers published???

I agree that statistics can be used to prove anything, but you've put
him in a catch-22 situation. He cant publish his findings, because it's
irresponsible to encourage people to engage in dangerous activity, but
if he cant publish his paper than he can never prove that this activity
is in fact safer than the alternative, if that turns out to be the
case. I understand there is other evidence to support the fact that
wearing helmets might not be such a good idea as it first seems, so
maybe its discussion needs to be allowed in the interests of public
safety, perhaps stopping such exchanging of ideas would be considered
more irresponsible.

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kington99

Dave

- what a thoroughly post-modern subversion of the cycling genre -
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rob.northcott said:

But cycling helmets aren't really intended to protect against being hit
by a vehicle - if a car hits you hard you're screwed whether you're
wearing a helmet or not. The type of accident cycling helmets are good
for is, for example, slipping on oil/ice/leaves and falling sideways,
hitting your head on the road. I was very glad of that last winter
when I hit some ice on the bike, but I don't expect it to save me if a
car hits me at high speed.

Not if it hits you head on, maybe. But I find the "possible
conclusion" of this study to be laughable, because whether or not
drivers will "crowd" a cyclist more if the cyclist is wearing a helmet,
the type of fall that you'll likely take if you're hit by a *passing*
motorist is exactly the type of fall that you described helmets being
good for.

If you're travelling at 15mph on your bicycle, and an *oncoming* car
travelling at 40mph hits you, you're right: your helmet will likely
not help much with that 55mph impact (though I'd still argue that
whatever good it might do is worth the bother of wearing it).

But if you're travelling at 15mph, and a *passing* car travelling at
40mph hits you, two things are different: the impact is now at 25mph
(not taking into account the angle of impact), not 55mph, since you're
travelling in the same direction, and you're being struck by a glancing
blow, not a dead-stop impact. So you'll likely be knocked a bit
sideways, and if you go down you'll be falling sideways and will hit
your head on the ground, not the vehicle.

The notion that since you're x% more likely to be hit by a passing car
if you're wearing a helmet, you shouldn't wear a helmet seems
ridiculous to me: I may be slightly more at risk of being hit, but
I'll be more protected if I *am* hit.

Not to mention the other possibility: if a passing motorist is closer,
I'm more likely to get bonked by his side-view mirror, and I'd much
rather that bonk my helmet than my head!

Rich

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I don't know alot about statistics but it seems to me that if you can't
prove what you want to using one test, then you just use another.

However, the main point I want to make is that he seems to be a bit
careless getting knocked off twice in one study. I rode a bicycle on
the road for years and I have never been hit by a car. Neither do I
wear a wig.

Cathy

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Say no to unicycle genre discrimination! - MrBoogiejuice

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Yeah...what he (RichVoice) said... 😕 Wear a cap over your
helmet! A HUUUUUGE cap....I wonder if that would work? I think they'd
be a lot more careful with a unicyclist* (with the unicyclist, the car
in front would be pretty likely to get hit because the driver is
staring at the unicycle and not the road*) because they're ALWAYS
reminding you of the possibility you'd fall, no matter how good you
are, specially if you're younger. A younger, advanced rider is more
likely to be reminded he/she will fall than an older one*, assuming
they're thinking a younger rider has less experience and practice and
the older one has more.

*None of this are "the facts" or anything, no research has been made
that I know of, but judging by everyone's posting and stuff on the
other forums, and my own experience, and what I think adults think, it
could be the case.

** I never typed so scientifically before!

***You can tell this isn't official because it's typed by a
puertorrican(REAL research proves most high school teachers in Purto
Rico would have stayed in ninth grade. These teachers need teachers of
their own) 11-year-old (uh...I'm not a mind reader, and I can't even
legally call shotgun until November(1) let alone
drive...)...(parenthesis, asterics, and the three dots are my
favorite!)

--
Andy912912

Need for (low) speed!Level Bored!Plain Crazy!I reject your reality and
substitute my own!(Adam, Mythbuster)I now ride for Christ(though I
always did, now I'm in that group) but I still need my daily dose of
(low) speed!
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Andy912912 said:

(parenthesis, asterics, and the three dots are my favorite!)

That would be parentheses, asterisks, and ellipses. 🙂

You type awfully well for an 11-year-old! Keep up the good work!

Rich

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andy parry said:

And any research and that could influence people to take to the roads on
a bike or uni with out a helmet seems rather daft and irresponsible.

Only if you take it for granted that wearing a helmet automatically
makes a cyclist safer. Helmets aren't without disadvantages, such as
the possibility of increased risk compensation on the part of the
cyclist, and possible increased likehood of neck injuries.

Like JerryAttrick said, this research doesn't say that wearing a helmet
is more dangerous than not wearing one overall, but that drivers might
pass closer to a helmet-wearing cyclist. Just another factor for
cyclists to consider when choosing to wear a helmet or not, and also
for drivers to consider when they pass cyclists.

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I wasn't annoyed by the article as it mostly focused on just the
information in the guy's study, and did not try to draw conclusions
outside of that. Except for this part:

"We know helmets are useful in low-speed falls, and so definitely good
for children, but whether they offer any real protection to somebody
struck by a car is very controversial."
"Either way, this study suggests wearing a helmet might make a
collision more likely in the first place," he added.

It doesn't quite say to not wear a helmet, but those were interesting
numbers. Only 2500 overtaking vehicles sounds like a relatively small
amount for the whole test, and this information may apply more to
England and less to anywhere else.

The key finding in the article, and I think they make it fairly clear,
is that motorists need better education on how to drive. This has
always been true.

If wearing a helmet (on a bike, on the side of an assumed-to-be-narrow
road) makes me more likely to be hit by cars, my conclusion will be to
stay off those sorts of roads as much as possible. Me and my helmet
will try to ride only where there's more room!

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John Foss
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oh give me a break! no driver is going to bother to think, "oh ok, this
guys wearing a helmet, i can pass closer." thats just pathetic.

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ice_cold_uni6

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iridemymuni said:

we get snow in australia, we've got like 8 different places to ski, 5 of
them are absoloutly sh**

'**my sick gallery**'
(http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/?g2_itemId=219882)
'COOL STUFF' (http://www.kontraband.com)
'80,000' (http://tinyurl.com/zv75x)
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ice_cold_uni6 said:

oh give me a break! no driver is going to bother to think, "oh ok, this
guys wearing a helmet, i can pass closer." thats just pathetic.

So what's your take on why they pass closer? I don't doubt the data in
the study.

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John Foss
"jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com
-----------------------------------------------

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johnfoss said:

So what's your take on why they pass closer? I don't doubt the data in
the study.

scientific anomalies occur frequently, and they are unavoidable. i find
it hard to believe that a thought process that complex goes on
subconciously without the driver knowing it. 14 cm sounds too small to
be a true result. maybe some people think like that, but most people
dont.

wow this thread is popular. must be the provocative title. i had no
idea people held such deep feelings about their helmets!

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iridemymuni said:

we get snow in australia, we've got like 8 different places to ski, 5 of
them are absoloutly sh**

'**my sick gallery**'
(http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/?g2_itemId=219882)
'COOL STUFF' (http://www.kontraband.com)
'80,000' (http://tinyurl.com/zv75x)
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johnfoss said:

If wearing a helmet (on a bike, on the side of an assumed-to-be-narrow
road) makes me more likely to be hit by cars, my conclusion will be to
stay off those sorts of roads as much as possible. Me and my helmet
will try to ride only where there's more room!

That doesn't work so well if you intend to ride in, say, Europe.

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ice_cold_uni6 said:

scientific anomalies occur frequently, and they are unavoidable. i find
it hard to believe that a thought process that complex goes on
subconciously without the driver knowing it. 14 cm sounds too small to
be a true result. maybe some people think like that, but most people
dont.

wow this thread is popular. must be the provocative title. i had no
idea people held such deep feelings about their helmets!

There is quite a bit of research on the topic of risk compensation.
For example, it's well-known that protective gear never provides as
much benefit as it is supposed to, because people do riskier things
when they feel that they are protected. (I, myself, as a unicyclist
will do things when I'm wearing pads that I won't try when I'm
bare-legged, for example). It should not be surprising to find that
risk compensation occurs "by proxy" also. It has also been established
that the more nervous a driver feels, the more safely they will drive;
a result of that research is that it may actually be better to design
roads which look dangerous, so drivers slow down and pay more
attention. This overtaking phenomenon could be a related phenomenon.

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