re; How i spent

Dot dot.h@#duh?att.net said:

Simply because WS100 or whatever doesn't offer the challenge they are
seeking. Why should a person have to limit their challenges to something
where someone has thought it'd be a good place to race and is willing to
be an RD - or have to go through all the arrangements to set up your own
race? Some people do, but for many people they'd rather just run. Far
more runners than volunteers. Also some races are so popular, it's hard
to get in.

I know there's some trails north of Fairbanks (easier than ours, I
think) I'd love to run - just for the scenery and topography - but
there's no races there and I'm a long ways from being able to do it on
my own. But that doesn't mean I shouldn't do it just because there's not
an RD and start/finish line there.

Sure, but we don't hear you bragging about your great run, claiming it as a
"record", or expecting critical acclaim.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Doug Freese said:

Quoted message said:

If it really is "all internal", and they are solo runs, then why do
you even
hear about it ? I mean, why would they tell anyone ?

Like any race they show up in Ultra Running, get talked about in the
ultra forums. It's an amazingly close knit bunch of people.

OK, but then it's not "all internal" anymore, is it ? In fact, if it's posted
on any kind of public message board, it's probably as about as "external" as
it could get, in the sense that it is shared with everyone who cares.

Quoted message said:

I don't agree, just because these races don't have large numbers does
not mean there is no competition.

In principal, I agree (-; I mean, I doubt you're bumping elbows with half
a dozen guys like I am in the mile. And that's fine. I don't believe that you
and Tony enter these events to be big fish in small ponds.

But I was talking more about what I said further down, and I was thinking
more of people like Dean Karnazes when I said it, not you or Tony. I don't
think all of Lance's rants are completely off the mark -- the view of ultra
runners as of rich egotistical white men with too much time on their hands
is in my opinion a fairly accurate description of some of the freak fringe. A
stopped clock is exactly right twice a day, and Lance can be surprisingly
insightful in those rare moments that he's not babbling nonsense.

For whatever reason, it appears that the freak fringe of ultra running attracts
the most publicity.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

feel better about yourself doug? shame on you doug. really. i know
nothing about this tony person...never read or learned about his times,
age, etc. i was just wondering if he was one of these runners with an
ideal structure, then knowing something about his age, then have some
guidance to frame his times, etc. knowing someone's age & bmi....i
can have a pretty good insight on the cailber of runner they are once
their times are disclosed...and i don't know this tony guy....but
tony's probably gone to nyrr.org and looked up all my times. can i do
that with some of you newgroup superstars? you get full disclose
w/me....you can do that on donovan and pendejo.....but you guys?...?
it's all a mystery... please keep in mind i get all you guys confused
because you're all so similar in text/expression. anders stands
out....but most of you aren't very distinguishing in your
commentary...not to suggest this is paralleled in your racing
peformance...of course not....but we really don't know that...do we?
and the bmi thing doug? i don't get beat by runners of any age of my
bmi/size. doesn't happen in this big pond doug.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

feel better about yourself doug? shame on you doug. really. i know
nothing about this tony person...never read or learned about his times,
age, etc. i was just wondering if he was one of these runners with an
ideal structure, then knowing something about his age, then have some
guidance to frame his times, etc. knowing someone's age & bmi....i
can have a pretty good insight on the cailber of runner they are once
their times are disclosed...and i don't know this tony guy....but
tony's probably gone to nyrr.org and looked up all my times. can i do
that with some of you newgroup superstars? you get full disclose
w/me....you can do that on donovan and pendejo.....but you guys?...?
it's all a mystery... please keep in mind i get all you guys confused
because you're all so similar in text/expression. anders stands
out....but most of you aren't very distinguishing in your
commentary...not to suggest this is paralleled in your racing
peformance...of course not....but we really don't know that...do we?
and the bmi thing doug? i don't get beat by runners of any age of my
bmi/size. doesn't happen in this big pond doug.

I'm not fast Lance, either on roads or on trails. My '04 10 mile time was
1:16. My '05 5k was 21:3x. My '04 trail marathon was 3:59. My '04 trail 50k
was 5:39. My '05 50 mile time was 10:04. So in your own mind I'm sure you
could beat me anywhere, anytime. That's the point of the wager - an easy
$100 for you if you believe you can beat me on any terrain because I'm "just
not in your class as a runner", eh...

I asked you in another response exactly what mountain trails you've run,
because you had suddenly claimed a wealth of trail running experience. I
don't claim that trail experience gives anyone a huge advantage, but there
is some advantage that I might have there.

-Tony

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Doug Freese said:

Quoted message said:

If it really is "all internal", and they are solo runs, then why do
you even
hear about it ? I mean, why would they tell anyone ?

Like any race they show up in Ultra Running, get talked about in the
ultra forums. It's an amazingly close knit bunch of people.

OK, but then it's not "all internal" anymore, is it ? In fact, if it's posted
on any kind of public message board, it's probably as about as "external" as
it could get, in the sense that it is shared with everyone who cares.

Quoted message said:

I don't agree, just because these races don't have large numbers does
not mean there is no competition.

In principal, I agree (-; I mean, I doubt you're bumping elbows with half
a dozen guys like I am in the mile. And that's fine. I don't believe that you
and Tony enter these events to be big fish in small ponds.

But I was talking more about what I said further down, and I was thinking
more of people like Dean Karnazes when I said it, not you or Tony.

If you think DK characterizes most trail runners
it just shows how little you know, or how few
you've know. I've met lots of these guys in remote
places. None were "big fish" -- i.e., famous and
well known to the point of feeding their own egos
via the media. They may be doing it for ego or
self challange or whatever, but names like DK
have never even come up...

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Doug Freese said:

runners. The fact that only 5 or 10 show up means nothing. When this
small set of people can't find what they want they do them alone. There
is someone always trying to set a new solo record on the Appalachian,
John Muir Trail or run across the US. A big D contest yes, but all
internal.

If it really is "all internal", and they are solo runs, then why do you even
hear about it ? I mean, why would they tell anyone ?

These runs are about bragging rights. And Lance does have a point when he
talks about "big fish in small ponds" -- these guys are on a quest to make the
pond really small until they're the only one in the pond. Then the run does
indeed become a "feat", some sort of work of art, rather than a competition.

There's something a little pretentious about making ones run some sort
of grandiose act of self-expression. I mean, why not just line up on the
track, or even line up at the start of the WS100, like anyone else ?

Hey, some people just enjoy the challenge of
running in wilds and backcountry. And I ain't
talking about New Hampshire...

Tom Phillips said:

If you think DK characterizes most trail runners
it just shows how little you know, or how few
you've know. I've met lots of these guys in remote
places. None were "big fish" -- i.e., famous and
well known to the point of feeding their own egos
via the media. They may be doing it for ego or
self challange or whatever, but names like DK
have never even come up...

Well as I said, it's the DKs who get all the attention. All
I have to go on is what I see in the media, and what people on
the boards say. For the most part, I don't see ultra runners
distancing themselves from DK's idiocy. In fact "Trailrunner"
defended the idea of setting "records" that are uncontested (e.g.
go to some location no-one else has run, and set a "record" there)

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Tom Phillips said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Doug Freese said:

> If it really is "all internal", and they are solo runs, then why do
> you even
> hear about it ? I mean, why would they tell anyone ?

Like any race they show up in Ultra Running, get talked about in the
ultra forums. It's an amazingly close knit bunch of people.

OK, but then it's not "all internal" anymore, is it ? In fact, if it's posted
on any kind of public message board, it's probably as about as "external" as
it could get, in the sense that it is shared with everyone who cares.

Quoted message said:

I don't agree, just because these races don't have large numbers does
not mean there is no competition.

In principal, I agree (-; I mean, I doubt you're bumping elbows with half
a dozen guys like I am in the mile. And that's fine. I don't believe that you
and Tony enter these events to be big fish in small ponds.

But I was talking more about what I said further down, and I was thinking
more of people like Dean Karnazes when I said it, not you or Tony.

If you think DK characterizes most trail runners

BTW, I never said that "DK characterizes most trail runners".

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

But I was talking more about what I said further down, and I was
thinking
more of people like Dean Karnazes when I said it, not you or Tony.

My bad, I missed that you were talking about the Karnazes' and the
Reed's. Sad part is they are good runners but seek this BS attention of
this solo psuedo world record [censored]. Unlike T, I don't consider Yanos
Kouros, David Horton, in that category.

Quoted message said:

For whatever reason, it appears that the freak fringe of ultra running
attracts
the most publicity.

I agree. Isn't this true in any sport. Are all ministers as whacked out
as Pat Robertson? Look at football with the asinine stunts after a
touchdown or basketball with the stare down after the 12 foot guy stuffs
the ball and struts his stuff. Most of the ultra runners feel as I do,
they are good runners and do need to do this hype [censored]. Let's not taint
the sport for the those that seek the limelight. .

I won't comment on T's lucid moments and there rarity. 😉

-DF

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

feel better about yourself doug? shame on you doug. really. i know
nothing about this tony person...never read or learned about his
times,
age, etc. i was just wondering if he was one of these runners with an
ideal structure, then knowing something about his age, then have some
guidance to frame his times, etc.

When you nibbling on Tony's dare you were setting up some age, BMI, or
number of toes so you can get an edge. Same stuff you pulled with
Donovan. Do you want extra credit for foot size are watch band?

Quoted message said:

knowing someone's age & bmi....i
can have a pretty good insight on the cailber of runner they are once
their times are disclosed...and i don't know this tony guy....but
tony's probably gone to nyrr.org and looked up all my times.

He can answer for himself bit I'll bet he has not looked up anything
about you. You offer your times in your posts so unless your
bullshitting, why look.

Quoted message said:

can i do
that with some of you newgroup superstars? you get full disclose
w/me....you can do that on donovan and pendejo.....but you guys?...?
it's all a mystery...

You guys? My numbers are all over the internet. Need some help with
Google? I don't know if Tony has posted his last name but if you want
to find it start the 2005 Escarpment race and look for roughly 4:30
hours. Or better yet ask him.

Quoted message said:

i don't get beat by runners of any age of my bmi/size.

So you take a little talent and then eat like a horse and then compete.
Maybe we should all try eating more and competing in the Clydesdale
group. How about the corollary, eat a few less jelly donuts and compete
where you should be and not hide behind the beef.

I hate to tell you this but stop by an ultra race and you be shocked at
the people that are your size and bigger and will handle you like a
child abuser in a maximum security prison. As usual you have no idea
about these races yet continue to babble on. Give it up T.

-DF

Quoted message said:

So in your own mind I'm sure you could beat me anywhere, anytime. That's the point of the wager - an easy

$100 for you if you believe you can beat me on any terrain because I'm
"just
not in your class as a runner", eh...
_

it's not your times that illustrates your not in my league, it's your
emphasis of dwelling on $100 dollars. you're not a
competitor...tony...$ is not going to motivate a competitor, certainly
not me. if you're so intent on kicking my ass you would just show up
at a new york road runner race...when healthy i do'em all...you would
kick my ass have realized something more valuable than money,
affirming your word. that's what i am going to doug & his whole crew
of mediocrity in that small pond he dwells in...Spring or Summer. Make
it happen tony...for yourself.

Quoted message said:

I asked you in another response exactly what mountain trails you've run,

because you had suddenly claimed a wealth of trail running experience.
_
i've not ran trails in over 20 years. i haven't claimed a wealth of
knowledge. however i am not foreign to trails. As a teen I ran trails
in the berkeley/oakland hills....in college i ran trails in new
hampshire & vermont. however that was 20-22 years ago. i don't think
trails have changed a whole hell of a lot. i won't be a fish out of
water on a trail...and to be honest, i would prefer to race as i train,
as a lone runner. unfortunately i never get to indeed race as i
train...and always have someone in my immediate space if not on my ass
the entire distance of a race.

in fact i am used to pacing with many of donovan's teammates, men and
women....however they usually drop me and pick it up in the final stage
of a race (80% completed & 20% to go) due to their superior Glover
training. sure they're usually younger than men and women...etc...but
they train far better than me.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So in your own mind I'm sure you could beat me anywhere, anytime. That's the point of the wager - an easy

$100 for you if you believe you can beat me on any terrain because I'm
"just
not in your class as a runner", eh...
_

it's not your times that illustrates your not in my league, it's your
emphasis of dwelling on $100 dollars. you're not a
competitor...tony...$ is not going to motivate a competitor, certainly
not me. if you're so intent on kicking my ass you would just show up
at a new york road runner race...when healthy i do'em all...you would
kick my ass have realized something more valuable than money,
affirming your word. that's what i am going to doug & his whole crew
of mediocrity in that small pond he dwells in...Spring or Summer. Make
it happen tony...for yourself.

It's not your emphasis that you can do well on trails that illustrates
your mediocrity, but it's your dwelling on how Doug and his crew are
mediocre and that you're going to beat them this spring/summer....
You're not a competitor ... Lance... You're a mediocre competitor....
Beating mediocre runners is not going to make you great.... You'll just
be a comparatively better mediocre runner, but nonetheless, mediocre.

If you want to be a truly great runner, don't lower yourself to the
levels of the mediocre. Finish up those baby shark bones and go out
and set a new age-graded record that no one with insufficient training
will be able to match for the next 50 years. Make it happen...
Lance ... for yourself.

Donovan Rebbechi said:

In fact "Trailrunner"
defended the idea of setting "records" that are uncontested (e.g.
go to some location no-one else has run, and set a "record" there)

Do the names Sir Edmund Hillary or Roald Amundsen mean anything to you?
I'm not trying to compare the accomplishments of ultrarunner
trailblazers to these folks, but "because it is there" is still a pretty
strong motivation to a lot of folks. And if you attitude prevailed,
there would be no marathons for you to run today because historians
would have written Phidippides off as a glory seeking publicity hound
and ignored his "stunt."

--
- The Trailrunner

Anti-Spam Alert: If you wish to reply, cut the *BS*

Trails of the Diablo Valley
*Running - Hiking - Nature*
http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/trails/6016/

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

knowing someone's age & bmi....i
can have a pretty good insight on the cailber of runner they are once
their times are disclosed...and i don't know this tony guy....but
tony's probably gone to nyrr.org and looked up all my times.

He can answer for himself bit I'll bet he has not looked up anything
about you. You offer your times in your posts so unless your
bullshitting, why look.

I don't have to look up anything. With all the bluster before the NYCM
everyone following those threads knew at least some of Lance's times. I did
some rough lookups before making the wager, but I looked up a few escarpment
runners, not Lance.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

can i do
that with some of you newgroup superstars? you get full disclose
w/me....you can do that on donovan and pendejo.....but you guys?...?
it's all a mystery...

You guys? My numbers are all over the internet. Need some help with
Google? I don't know if Tony has posted his last name but if you want
to find it start the 2005 Escarpment race and look for roughly 4:30
hours. Or better yet ask him.

A modest 4:24 for the escparment trail.

-Tony

.....all this time doug it's never occurred to me...how can i be so
blind? i've got one question. does your house have wheels?

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So in your own mind I'm sure you could beat me anywhere, anytime. That's

the point of the wager - an easy

Quoted message said:

$100 for you if you believe you can beat me on any terrain because I'm
"just
not in your class as a runner", eh...
_

it's not your times that illustrates your not in my league, it's your
emphasis of dwelling on $100 dollars. you're not a
competitor...tony...$ is not going to motivate a competitor, certainly
not me. if you're so intent on kicking my ass you would just show up
at a new york road runner race...when healthy i do'em all...you would
kick my ass have realized something more valuable than money,
affirming your word. that's what i am going to doug & his whole crew
of mediocrity in that small pond he dwells in...Spring or Summer. Make
it happen tony...for yourself.

.... Actually you're right, it's not about competition for me! I could care
less about beating any particular person. It was an attempt at a friendly
wager, not unlike superbowl squares or something. If I were a real betting
man I'd put up far more than $100 - that's chump change, but I wouldn't make
that challenge unless I thought I had a fair chance of winning - because
it's a tough trail race. Of course I couldn't beat you on roads, or even on
most trails. You keep blabbering that you could easily win these trail
races -- so many of us are wondering if you will ever back up those words.
Why not come to the toughest ones in the area to make your statement? That
was the point. You're the one that needs to affirm your word Lance, not me.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I asked you in another response exactly what mountain trails you've run,

because you had suddenly claimed a wealth of trail running experience.
_
i've not ran trails in over 20 years. i haven't claimed a wealth of
knowledge. however i am not foreign to trails. As a teen I ran trails
in the berkeley/oakland hills....in college i ran trails in new
hampshire & vermont. however that was 20-22 years ago. i don't think
trails have changed a whole hell of a lot. i won't be a fish out of
water on a trail...and to be honest, i would prefer to race as i train,
as a lone runner. unfortunately i never get to indeed race as i
train...and always have someone in my immediate space if not on my ass
the entire distance of a race.

Wait a minute, errr you want to race alone now? Wow that blows my mind, you
must be smoking some good stuff!

Quoted message said:

in fact i am used to pacing with many of donovan's teammates, men and
women....however they usually drop me and pick it up in the final stage
of a race (80% completed & 20% to go) due to their superior Glover
training. sure they're usually younger than men and women...etc...but
they train far better than me.

Yea you're the random training random racing guy. I remember that from some
of your other posts. Is that supposed to be impressive? I'm far more
impressed with someone who picks a goal, trains hard for it and goes for it,
even if he only gets close.

-Tony

The Trailrunner said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

In fact "Trailrunner"
defended the idea of setting "records" that are uncontested (e.g.
go to some location no-one else has run, and set a "record" there)

Do the names Sir Edmund Hillary or Roald Amundsen mean anything to you?
I'm not trying to compare the accomplishments of ultrarunner
trailblazers to these folks, but "because it is there" is still a pretty
strong motivation to a lot of folks. And if you attitude prevailed,
there would be no marathons for you to run today because historians
would have written Phidippides off as a glory seeking publicity hound
and ignored his "stunt."

Actually George Mallory let loose the line "because it's there"
in reply to a silly reporter's questions of why climb Everest.
Mallory was being flippant, because he either thought the
question silly or was weary of answering questions. He of
course died at 28,000 feet, which is evidence of just how
serious he took his mountaineering personally.

But in fact conquering Everest or crossing the south pole were
largely accomplished for reasons of nation pride in competition
with other countries. Witness Amundsen's success and Scott's
demise, both in serious competition for the same goal at the
same time.

Not that I disagree. If it weren't for human beings striving
and competing for something (whatever the motive) Bannister
would never have broken the 4 minute mile barrier first and
man would never have walked on the moon. Don't know how accurate
it is but the recent ESPN movie Four Minutes had some interesting
undertones on both national and person motives for setting
records. Bannister didn't seem all that interested in competing
but everyone else's pride in the record was at stake.

The Trailrunner said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

In fact "Trailrunner"
defended the idea of setting "records" that are uncontested (e.g.
go to some location no-one else has run, and set a "record" there)

Do the names Sir Edmund Hillary or Roald Amundsen mean anything to you?
I'm not trying to compare the accomplishments of ultrarunner
trailblazers to these folks, but "because it is there" is still a pretty
strong motivation to a lot of folks.

Rich white men with too much time on their hands imitating other rich white
men with too much time on their hands in pursuit of glory. Lance is dead-on on
this point.

Quoted message said:

And if you attitude prevailed,
there would be no marathons for you to run today because historians
would have written Phidippides off as a glory seeking publicity hound
and ignored his "stunt."

Utter nonsense.

(1) Phidippedes was not a member of the aristrocracy in pursuit of glory.
(2) Phidippedes or not, someone would find a good way to tell stories about
people covering a lot of distance.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Doug Freese said:

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

But I was talking more about what I said further down, and I was
thinking
more of people like Dean Karnazes when I said it, not you or Tony.

My bad, I missed that you were talking about the Karnazes' and the
Reed's. Sad part is they are good runners but seek this BS attention of
this solo psuedo world record [censored]. Unlike T, I don't consider Yanos
Kouros, David Horton, in that category.

I agree that these guys aren't in that category. On this point I think Lance
has it wrong (and I said so in the thread where he brough that up). Everything
I've heard of Kouros indicates that he would love to have more competition.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Rich white men with too much time on their hands imitating other rich
white
men with too much time on their hands in pursuit of glory. Lance is
dead-on on
this point.

Come on! This makes as much sense as me saying the same about poor
ghetto blacks playing basketball imitating other ghetto blacks with too
much time on their hands in the pursuit of glory. Does that make me dead
on also? Frankly both statements are equally racist and inflammatorily
untrue.

There are [censored] in every sport/voaction/calling and color ain't got
nuttin' to do with it.

-DF