Re: Old TA crank - which puller needed ?

[A Muzi]

Retro Bob wrote:
> Do the vintage TA cranks (1970's) use a Stronglight type/thread puller
> or a more standard (aka modern) puller ?

Neither.
Campagnolo standard is 22mm
Stronglight is 22.5mm and TA is 23mm

The big plain silver tool is a Stronglight. The silver TA
tool has the TA logo on the head. The black Stronglight tool
is for the later 22mm series.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Sheldon Brown]

A Usually-reliable source wrote:

> Neither.
> Campagnolo standard is 22mm
> Stronglight is 22.5mm and TA is 23mm

I believe you're mistaken about Stronglight. My information is that the
old Stronglight stuff was 23.15, but that around 1982 they switched to
the de facto 22 mm standard.

Sheldon "Grenouille Honoraire" Brown
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[John Thompson]

On 2004-10-02, Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote:

> A Usually-reliable source wrote:
>
>> Neither.
>> Campagnolo standard is 22mm
>> Stronglight is 22.5mm and TA is 23mm

> I believe you're mistaken about Stronglight. My information is that the
> old Stronglight stuff was 23.15, but that around 1982 they switched to
> the de facto 22 mm standard.

You're right. And unfortunately, I have one of the old ones on my
touring bike, and the new ones on my tandem, so I needed both pullers.

--

-John ([email protected])

 

[A Muzi]

> A Usually-reliable source wrote:
>> Neither.
>> Campagnolo standard is 22mm
>> Stronglight is 22.5mm and TA is 23mm

Sheldon Brown wrote:
> I believe you're mistaken about Stronglight. My information is that the
> old Stronglight stuff was 23.15, but that around 1982 they switched to
> the de facto 22 mm standard.

You are, as always, the last word. Instead of my very
fallible memory I just measured a few and indeed 23.15 is right.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Jim Adney]

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 21:04:52 -0500 A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:

>> A Usually-reliable source wrote:
>>> Neither.
>>> Campagnolo standard is 22mm
>>> Stronglight is 22.5mm and TA is 23mm
>
>Sheldon Brown wrote:
>> I believe you're mistaken about Stronglight. My information is that the
>> old Stronglight stuff was 23.15, but that around 1982 they switched to
>> the de facto 22 mm standard.
>
>You are, as always, the last word. Instead of my very
>fallible memory I just measured a few and indeed 23.15 is right.

I'm not so sure you should give up so soon, Andy. 23.15mm is a pretty
odd size, and I don't think you could do it justice by just trying to
measure it. Since the thread peaks won't come to their full
theoretical diameter, it's extremely hard to accurately determine
thread diameters by simply measuring them.

Did you try measuring a 22mm puller and a 23mm puller just to see how
far undersize they measured? That wouldn't prove anything, but it
would give a somewhat compelling argument.

As a test, I just measured my Campy puller. Even though the threads on
it look quite sharp, it still measured 0.2 mm undersized. I seem to
recall that the French pullers had noticably more rounded thread
peaks, which would lead to even greater errors.

I don't think it's at all unlikely that a 23.5 mm thread might well
measure only 23.15 mm.

BTW, I checked all my old references (2 VAR catalogs, a Bicycle
Research catalog and a Southerland, all from the '70s) and failed to
come up with ANYTHING that actually called out that thread.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney [email protected]
Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------

 

[gwhite]

A Muzi wrote:
>
> > A Usually-reliable source wrote:
> >> Neither.
> >> Campagnolo standard is 22mm
> >> Stronglight is 22.5mm and TA is 23mm
>
> Sheldon Brown wrote:
> > I believe you're mistaken about Stronglight. My information is that the
> > old Stronglight stuff was 23.15, but that around 1982 they switched to
> > the de facto 22 mm standard.
>
> You are, as always, the last word. Instead of my very
> fallible memory I just measured a few and indeed 23.15 is right.


I recently procured an old Sakae 86 BCD crank (the "link" to TA). The crank
pulling threads were partially stripped (too bad the seller didn't tell me up
front).

It seems to be a 22 "standard" ... um sort of. I cleaned up/out the mangled
threads as best I could without a tap.


The odd thing is, I could not get my Campy crank puller to thread in. It works
for all my other cranks.


So I dug around in my boxes and found my old Sugino crank puller. Voilà,
threaded right in... Cheezier puller than the Campy but it worked.


Is there some deal with italian/english threading here?



This is an identical puller:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=27953&item=7105434793


What do you guys do when the threads are too badly stripped? Can a 22 mm be
bored out and threaded to a 22.5 or 23 mm?

 

[Joshua Putnam]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...

> What do you guys do when the threads are too badly stripped? Can a 22 mm be
> bored out and threaded to a 22.5 or 23 mm?

Yes. The old solution was a piloted tap for 23mm, back when 23mm was
still a common size. Now that 23mm is obsolete, I seem to recall Stein
is making a 24mm repair kit. I still have my old 23mm tap set, still
works just fine.

--
[email protected] is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Books for Bicycle Mechanics and Tinkerers:
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/bikebooks.html>

 

[A Muzi]

> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>>What do you guys do when the threads are too badly stripped? Can a 22 mm be
>>bored out and threaded to a 22.5 or 23 mm?

Joshua Putnam wrote:
> Yes. The old solution was a piloted tap for 23mm, back when 23mm was
> still a common size. Now that 23mm is obsolete, I seem to recall Stein
> is making a 24mm repair kit. I still have my old 23mm tap set, still
> works just fine.

We have a nice VAr repair system for that at $30. We cut a
piloted 24mm thread and screw in an oversized
one-key-release type cover and bolt. Afterwards, you remove
with just an allen key.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[John Thompson]

On 2004-10-05, Jim Adney <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 21:04:52 -0500 A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> A Usually-reliable source wrote:
>>>> Neither.
>>>> Campagnolo standard is 22mm
>>>> Stronglight is 22.5mm and TA is 23mm
>>
>>Sheldon Brown wrote:
>>> I believe you're mistaken about Stronglight. My information is that the
>>> old Stronglight stuff was 23.15, but that around 1982 they switched to
>>> the de facto 22 mm standard.
>>
>>You are, as always, the last word. Instead of my very
>>fallible memory I just measured a few and indeed 23.15 is right.

> I'm not so sure you should give up so soon, Andy. 23.15mm is a pretty
> odd size, and I don't think you could do it justice by just trying to
> measure it. Since the thread peaks won't come to their full
> theoretical diameter, it's extremely hard to accurately determine
> thread diameters by simply measuring them.
>
> Did you try measuring a 22mm puller and a 23mm puller just to see how
> far undersize they measured? That wouldn't prove anything, but it
> would give a somewhat compelling argument.
>
> As a test, I just measured my Campy puller. Even though the threads on
> it look quite sharp, it still measured 0.2 mm undersized. I seem to
> recall that the French pullers had noticably more rounded thread
> peaks, which would lead to even greater errors.
>
> I don't think it's at all unlikely that a 23.5 mm thread might well
> measure only 23.15 mm.
>
> BTW, I checked all my old references (2 VAR catalogs, a Bicycle
> Research catalog and a Southerland, all from the '70s) and failed to
> come up with ANYTHING that actually called out that thread.

I just checked my old 4th edition Sutherland's, which lists pre-1982
Stronglight as having 23.35x1mm threading, and post-1982 Stronglight using
"standard" 22x1mm thread.

--

-John ([email protected])