Re: OT Is anyone really surprised?

[Bill C]

On Jan 26, 3:08 am, Howard Kveck <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
>  Bill C <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 25, 1:14 pm, Bill C <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > Dumbass -
>
> > > > I'm not. I was against it.
>
> > > > thanks,
>
> > > > K. Gringioni.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Hey Dude the paper doesn't say. Some kinda people, somewhere, maybe...
>
> > > The Constitution of the United States of America
>
> > > We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect
> > > union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the
> > > common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings
> > > of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish
> > > this Constitution for the United States of America.
>
> > > The collective people ARE the government and responsible for it.
> > >  Bill C- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> >  We've trotted out the shitty candidates, we've sent shitheads to our
> > State governments, we've allowed a handful of folks to set our policy,
> > most Americans don't pay any damned attention, and are even less
> > informed, especially if they get their info from network TV, and
> > talking heads.
> >  When was the last time you saw a "civics" class in school?
> >  It's all OUR faults.
> >  Reasonable democracy requires informed, responsible participation.
> > We, as a citizenry, have failed pretty miserably.
>
>    Bill, almost 70% of the US population wants us out of Iraq but we'll be there for
> ages. Getting us out of Iraq was one of the reasons that the GOP got its ass handed
> to it in '06 but the dead-enders and the Bush admin. are preventing what that 70%
> want to happen from happening.
>
> --
>                               tanx,
>                                Howard
>
>                    Now it's raining pitchforks and women,
>                      But I've already got a pitchfork...
>
>                      remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

That'll change in this election then, right?
Democracy is a slow messy system, by design. We are responsible.
We'll also be responsible for what happens after we pull out.
Bill C

 

[Bill C]

On Jan 26, 3:08 am, Howard Kveck <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <c13e0086-fee1-4fa8-8b1f-0e2765802...@v29g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
>  Bill C <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 25, 2:22 am, Howard Kveck <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >    Those positions are, for the most part, those of the leadershipand the
> > > militants who support them, not so much the regular Palestinian people.. As Henry has
> > > pointed out, the conditions that they're living in are not particularly conducive
> > > to them having a great opinion of Israel. Tom's historical revisionism
> > > notwithstanding, they had been living in what is now Israel, they had homes, jobs,
> > > businesses, orchards, etc. that they no longer have. I agree with you that the
> > > tactics of the militants (attacking civilians) is ****, but Henry has a good point
> > > as far as why they do that (the settlements are notorious for causing problems with
> > > existing Palestinian viillages inre: water, food and fuel supplies being seriously
> > > disrupted). One other factor that doesn't help the Israelis with respect to the
> > > Palestinian people is the collective punishment factor.
> > Howard do you consider the people of the US responsible for our
> > leaderships behavior?
>
>    I believe there is a significant difference in the dynamic of how the people of
> the US and the Palestinians work with our/their leaders. Yes, we elect ours but they
> frequently (perhaps mostly) don't really respond to the public. Case in point: almost
> 70% of the US population want us out of Iraq and we'll be there for ages.
>
> --
>                               tanx,
>                                Howard
>
>                    Now it's raining pitchforks and women,
>                      But I've already got a pitchfork...
>
>                      remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

They voted overwhelmingly for Hamas. They are responsible.
Bill C

 

[Kurgan Gringioni]

On Jan 26, 7:08 am, Bill C <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> That'll change in this election then, right?
>  Democracy is a slow messy system, by design. We are responsible.
> We'll also be responsible for what happens after we pull out.


Dumbass -


That is true.

However, the American public will not support an occupation for the
amount of time that it will take to develop Iraqi institutions strong
enough to stand upon their own. These are: an independent judiciary, a
professional, non-sectarian military, and a professional non-sectarian
police force.

The amount of time needed for those insitutions to become mature?
According to military experts from European nations expert in these
matters from their centuries of experience being colonial powers, a
minimum of one generation. A minimum of twenty years.

Twenty years is the *minimum*.

The American public will not support it.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

 

[Bill C]

On Jan 26, 5:39 pm, Kurgan Gringioni <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jan 26, 7:08 am, Bill C <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > That'll change in this election then, right?
> >  Democracy is a slow messy system, by design. We are responsible.
> > We'll also be responsible for what happens after we pull out.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> That is true.
>
> However, the American public will not support an occupation for the
> amount of time that it will take to develop Iraqi institutions strong
> enough to stand upon their own. These are: an independent judiciary, a
> professional, non-sectarian military, and a professional non-sectarian
> police force.
>
> The amount of time needed for those insitutions to become mature?
> According to military experts from European nations expert in these
> matters from their centuries of experience being colonial powers, a
> minimum of one generation. A minimum of twenty years.
>
> Twenty years is the *minimum*.
>
> The American public will not support it.
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.

Agreed.
Bill C

 

[Howard Kveck]

In article <25d0416d-d9b0-4d8d-9fa8-834f298a5fb1@h11g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Bill C <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Jan 26, 3:08 am, Howard Kveck <[email protected]> wrote:
> > In article
> > <c13e0086-fee1-4fa8-8b1f-0e2765802...@v29g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> >  Bill C <[email protected]> wrote:

> > > Howard do you consider the people of the US responsible for our
> > > leaderships behavior?
> >
> >    I believe there is a significant difference in the dynamic of how the people of
> > the US and the Palestinians work with our/their leaders. Yes, we elect ours but
> > theyfrequently (perhaps mostly) don't really respond to the public. Case in point:
> > almost 70% of the US population want us out of Iraq and we'll be there for ages.

> They voted overwhelmingly for Hamas. They are responsible.

Bill, the situation in those camps, village and cities in the Palsetinian areas is
terrible. Hamas has done a lot to help alleviate some of the problems. Fatah was
corrupt and did not do any of that stuff. So it seems logical that the people voted
for them, as it was a shitty pair of choices, but Hamas was less bad.

--
tanx,
Howard

Now it's raining pitchforks and women,
But I've already got a pitchfork...

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?